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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-03 04:26 PM
Original message
The liberals have taken over the Salt Lake Tribune Forum!
Wow today's Tribune is FILLED with liberal views, Seesh, I'm excited.

#1:

Bush taunts Iraqis

Books have been written about it, jokes and Web sites, but for all this Karl Rove just can't keep President Bush's mouth shut. Sometimes it's funny, other times not, but this time he has gone way over the line. For "W" to say: "We have sufficient forces" in place to handle any armed threat from Iraqi insurrectionists so "bring them on" shows no common sense, no empathy for our soldiers who must carry out the orders, and a mentality that is more suited to an 8-year-old video games junky than the leader of the free world.
Bush has never been in a war zone, so for him to taunt others to violence against our troops is callous, hypocritical and downright stupid.
I have confidence the brave men and women in our military will do their best in these trying times. I have no confidence or support for a commander-in-chief who behaves like he's playing with toy soldiers, and not real lives.

Gary Jensen
Holladay

#2:

True patriotism


The July Fourth holiday is a time to stand up and show our patriotism. For those who are confused about what it means to be patriotic, here is what I've learned from our president, his administration and other True Patriots:
A true patriot never questions or criticizes their president; would gladly surrender their civil liberties for the purpose of security; would never be opposed to a just war; would never put plants or animals above economic prosperity; would never vote against increasing defense spending; would never support socialist ideas like guaranteeing health care for all; would never let their country be subject to the United Nations, international law or international efforts to do things like reduce greenhouse gases or ban land mines; knows that we are a Christian nation, subservient to the laws of God; does not believe in giving women, minorities and gays "special privileges;" understands that democracy is synonymous with capitalism; knows that it is wrong to regulate business or interfere with its ability to make money; knows that campaign contributions are free speech, burning a flag is not and, finally, a true patriot knows that their individual freedom is the most important thing -- with the following exceptions: when it interferes with "national security," what one does with their own body or anything that interferes with business.
God bless America.

Jon Glenn
Salt Lake City

#3:

Chain-saw massacre


In a nice touch of irony, the folks gathered at the Federal Building on July 3 (Tribune, "Say it with saws," Page C5) defeated their own point, however unwittingly. They were there to protest overly restrictive forest protection by the government. Their weapons of choice? Nothing less than a phalanx of chain saws ready to march on the trees of our state. Well, I guess that makes it clear just what the problem is.
Proper management of our national forests needs clear and reasoned citizen input. Most of the time we get it. Threats with your chain saws just isn't the way to go, guys.

John R. Winter
Salt Lake City

#4:

Cal Thomas' columns

I have no problem with The Tribune giving space to conservative voices, but I very much object to Cal Thomas' column -- or as I like think of it, the writings of a madman.
Of course, Cal Thomas has mastered the strategy of putting so many absurd and wrong-headed ideas into each of his columns as to make it virtually impossible for any letter-writing objectors to even begin to respond to his stream of unconsciousness, but I will try.
In his July 2 column, Thomas lauds "strict" constructionism, which I suspect is only particularly strict when it suits him. With regard to President Clinton's unconstitutional impeachment: "high crimes and misdemeanors" my foot. The drug war (which, unlike Prohibition, required no constitutional amendment) and his silence about John Ashcroft's internment of innocent Arab-Americans are more than ample reasons to judge this man's pious Constitution talk as hypocrisy, though I certainly wish he were consistent.

John McIntosh
Salt Lake City

#5:

Breathtaking rip-offs

I just came up with an idea for Sen. Orrin Hatch's career after government service. After he starts receiving his hefty benefits package and Social Security, he can easily get hired as a paid lobbyist for any of the large pharmaceutical conglomerates who have paid him huge sums for getting re-elected. Or, he can easily get hired by the recording industry as a computer music download buster. Either way, he doesn't have to answer to all the people who are being ripped off by the high costs of drugs and medicine.
Incidentally, I just paid 85 bucks for a tiny inhaler for my daughter who has breathing problems.

Marvin Zimmer
Murray

#6:

Outrageous bravado

The tragedy at the World Trade Towers on Sept. 11, 2001, was both an incomprehensible calamity and, at least momentarily, an unprecedented opportunity. There was, however briefly, a chance that the Bush administration might realize that a war against terrorism (whatever that turned out to be) should involve a global coalition against a worldwide threat.
But it was not to be. President Bush chose the politics of personality instead, pitting himself first against Osama bin Laden and then Saddam Hussein. In both cases his confrontation involved the trappings of Western Americana: Osama was portrayed on posters reading "Wanted Dead or Alive" and Saddam and his henchmen appeared on a deck of playing cards issued to GIs stationed in postwar Iraq.
In response to the recent escalation of attacks on American and British forces the president proclaimed, "There are some who feel that the conditions are such that they can attack us there. My answer is, bring them on." Such outrageous bravado is indecorous grandstanding, unbecoming a chief of state. Would that the president could think before he spoke. His boisterous rhetoric does him and the nation a disservice.

Louis Borgenicht
Salt Lake City

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Jul/07072003/public_f/public_f.asp

SIX out of EIGHT letters were against right-wingers. One letter was about single people paying too much for school tax. The other talking about Clinton's penis.

That's a first.


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kainah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-03 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. The same is happening with the Casper Star-Tribune
It's absolutely amazing. We get several hard-hitting "left-wing" letters every day & most of them are not from the cadre of the "usual suspects" that I have come to recognize over the years. (Myself included, of course.) A friend of mine in Idaho says she's been noticing the same thing over there. Something's going on.... I really do believe that the Dems need to focus on the intermountain west, with a strong environmental message, for 2004. I think that, if they do, they will be astonished by the results.
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northernsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-03 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. can the Mountain states be turning?
Whaddya think is driving this sudden flare-up of unabashed liberalism in the Mounatain West?
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kainah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-03 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Land Use
pure and simple......... All of the mining, forest policy, water policies, public lands, wildlife, etc., etc., etc. Since the government owns so much land out here, it all has major impact and the conflicts are coming fast and heavy. No stretch of land is safe from their rape and plunder policies and that threatens all of the ranchers -- nearly all of whom survive on leased public lands to survive -- and the recreationists, in all their different forms. In other words, you're pretty directly touching the lifestyles of almost everyone. And the drive to exploit and privatize almost everything does NOT suit that lifestyle. The alliances that are forming are very unusual: environmentalists and multi-generation ranching families. Hunters and public lands advocates. There's a powerful shifting going on and the Dems are damned fools (yes, I know they are) if they don't notice.

The other issue that I see slowly bubbling is the number of veterans who are VERY upset about the war. Most of my time these days is spent with peace work and, in the last couple of weeks, we're beginning to see traditional republicans coming to us to ask for information.

Don't forget: we elected a Dem governor in Wyoming last November. At the same time, Idaho and Montana both gained in Democratic representation. And maybe Utah did as well -- can you tell me if that's the case, Sean??
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morningglory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-03 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Trying to privatize all that western land
will only cause problems. There is not enough water there to water bright green lawns. I foresee fire problems and fights over water if too much population builds up in our national treasure.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-03 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. What is going on is a sea change in Politics
I think many are fed up with the extremist in the WH... good news, Rove has not noticed... bad news, when they do, expect a full fledged attack on this budding liberalism

Also the Politics of Personal Destruction seeem to no longer have any cache.
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MoonAndSun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-03 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. Doesn't SLC have a liberal tendency in its people?
I do know that in other cities in Utah they are pretty convservative, but I remember my Mormom girlfriend who lives in SLC saying that SLC was getting real liberal in its leanings. She was not happy when she said that. I just smiled.
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-03 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Oh yes.
But what is good is a lot of these letters are coming from the GOP Heavy suburbs!

It was that every liberal letter in the Tribune WAS from Salt Lake City. Now they're from areas just south of here, which IMO is a good sign.
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BuelahWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-03 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Which suburbs Sean?
Would they be Murray and/or Sandy?

Leslie (former SLC inhabitant)
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-03 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. You're seeing a lot from WVC, Murray, Magna, and Holladay
Sandy is still much a very conservative, white area. WVC is changing because, like Salt Lake City, its getting a large Hispanic community.

Though it's known Salt Lake County is a pretty liberal place compared to the state - Salt Lake City is just commie pinko when compared to the state. ;)
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kainah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-03 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. We're seeing letters from lots of little towns around the state
Several months ago, we found a list of lefty petition signers & were able to extract just the signers from Wyoming & then we emailed them to connect. One woman in Wheatland, eastern side of WY & VERY conservative, mentioned how lonely she was. Since then, I've seen two "left-wing" letters from Wheatland and sent her the names. Now, Wheatland has a budding peace group! At least half of the letters showing up in the Casper paper are coming from these little, traditionally conservative towns. (And, of course, it's possible these people always felt this way but, in those little towns, you have to be prepared for consequences when you speak out that publicly.)
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onecitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-03 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. Wow, all very good.........
this gives me some hope!

Thanx for posting this.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-03 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'm hearing from Republicans
who say that Bush isn't a true Republican and that they won't vote for him next year. So there's hope!
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-03 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. All those letters are good
but #1 is outstanding.
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dems4gore Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-03 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. Good!
NT
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-03 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
14. Lucky You-The Freeps have invaded The Boston Globe
message boards. See my link from today-where one actually addresses my DU pseudonym in his post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2444&mesg_id=2444&page=5

If you read several newspaper message boards, you'll find the same comments from different folks-pointing to an organized campaign of hate-mongering. Lovely.
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morningglory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-07-03 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. Same here: Panama City, Florida News Herald
Visiting here a few years ago during the Clinton years, it was very depressing, but now after getting laid off and moving back here, it is astounding to see the truth, plainly stated in my home town newspaper! In letters, editorials, and in articles in the paper. We are a military town and infested with righties.
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