Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Why does it take one grieving mom to...

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 11:50 AM
Original message
Why does it take one grieving mom to...
... energize the Peace movement? Where the fuck are the real leaders in the Dem party willing to say what a majority of Americans now believe?.. that this war was a mistake.

Yes, I heard Max Cleland, but after the massive Swiftboating he endured, he's politically dead as a doornail.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think you answered your own question
Any Democrat who questions the administration is swift-boated.

Does anyone know why the Repub Senator Hagel hasn't been swift-boated yet? (He says Iraq is becoming Vietnam.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. There was a lot of similar crap during viet nam
America, love it or leave it
America, right or wrong

etc.

The difference today is that the press is know longer independent, but controlled by a corporate political agenda that prefers to emphasis the administrations point of view



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tmorelli415 Donating Member (268 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. BAD IDEA. Dem Politicians Have Enough Sense to NOT
Edited on Sun Aug-21-05 12:16 PM by tmorelli415
politicize a grieving mother and the death of her brave son to curry favor for their own opposition to the war. They absolutely support her, but only a true Republican would suggest that the party leaders rush to her side and exploit the truly grassroots movement that she has galvanized. We are NOT Republicans, and Cindy is NOT Terry Schaivo.

Try harder, girls! Why don't you just paint one another's nails and stop this crap?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. Because she is the voice for what millions believe and want expressed, she
is also extremely intelligent. Our Dem senators could never be so outspoken for fear of possible consequenses. And Bushco still hasn't a clue how to possibly "silence" her as we've seen the Limbaugh-Hannity smear machine prove that Cindy's bullet-proof!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daibhi Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Because...
The First Amendment protects her right to speak against the war, it also protects my right to the courage and bravery of her son. Her son VOLUNTEERED, then he REENLISTED. He knew what being in the military was about, he knew that part of that career choice would / could possibly be to lay down his life for his country. And I am relatively certain he wrote to his mother from time to time. However she has produced nothing in his own words which if verified could be a dying declaration which would support her cause.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
julialnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Every body supports our military and knows that it is volunteer
Edited on Sun Aug-21-05 12:42 PM by julialnyc
but our soldiers volunteer with the confidence that their service will only be used to protect us from when we are attacked, there is imminent threat, or our allies have been attacked.

Our military does not deserve to be sent into wars of choice (not necessity), without a plan, without proper armor, and without an exit strategy............... that is not what they signed up for (not to mention a stop loss where they can't get out after several tours of duty)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
julialnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. not so simple
"Fallen Philly soldier revealed the ugly truth about Iraq."
http://tinyurl.com/b5gph
By Attytood
Philly Daily News, August 20, 2005

Last week, we wrote about the unspeakably sad story of Gennaro Pellegrini Jr. -- Philly cop, welterweight boxer, and National Guardsman. The 31-year-old's life was hitting full stride when he received a fateful phone call ordering him to serve in Iraq, just two weeks before his hitch was supposed to end. Pellegrini was quite unhappy, but he went -- and he paid with his life, along with three of his Pennsylvania National Guard colleagues who were killed in a ruthless ambush near the Iraqi town of Beiji.

Also slain in that Aug. 9 attack was one of Pellegrini's brothers-in-arms, a Whitpain Township firefighter named John Kulick. Kulick -- a 35-year-old from the suburbs, an avid fisherman who loved too much mustard on bologna sandwiches and was called "Johnny K" -- had become had become fast friends with Pellegrini, the tough, tatooed city cop from a rowhouse block of Port Richmond. But the road that these two salt-of-the-earth guys had taken to Beiji could not have been more different.

As a professional firefighter, Kulick was devastated by the loss of so many colleagues at the World Trade Center in the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. That sense of duty is what prompted him to joined the Pennsylvania National Guard, even though he was already on the far side of 30 and the devoted and involved divorced dad to his daughter, Amanda, who is in grade school. And when his Guard unit from Northeast Philly was called up last December, he told his worried family that he wanted to go, to fight terrorists "over there."

In fact, Kulick's brother Jim -- in a radio interview this morning -- said they watched the movie "Blackhawk Down" just days before his departure for Iraq. After the end of the movie (which depicts the 1993 Somali insurgent attack that killed 18 U.S. troops), John Kulick declared, echoing his commander-in-chief and without irony, "Bring 'em on."

We heard Jim Kulick this morning on the Michael Smerconish show on WPHT-1210. The reason Smerconish invited him on was to talk about the emails that John Kulick had sent home from northern Iraq in the months before he was killed. Over the eight months that the Philly-area firefighter served in Iraq, his opinion of the mission changed radically.

As described by his brother, John Kulick's emails tell the story of a patriotic American who was betrayed -- by his own government. Because it was John Kulick's government that -- after spending more than $100 billion on Iraq -- sent him into hostile territory without the proper armor. And it was John Kulick's government that sent him into a war that lacked a strategy, and that, as a result, not only eliminated the enemy but was waged in a way that created new enemies every day.

Jim Kulick said his brother's emails showed a man who was becoming more and more worried. John Kulick said the insurgents were using increasingly sophisticated IEDs -- improvised explosive devices -- and were firing rocket-propelled grenades, or RPGs, into their camp. "They had to hide under their cots -- there was nothing they could do," Kulick's brother said. "The Humvees weren't armored, or lightly armored -- they were basically useless. At first they were sending them out in pickup trucks. They weren't really equipped to fight this war."

Kulick told his family that troops were taking police vests that had been donated to them and putting them on the floor of the Humvees instead of wearing them. Jim Kulick noted that at the same time his brother was reporting this, two of his friends who are area police officers serving in Iraq told him they had needed to bring their own sidearms. In his emails, John Kulick had begun to describe the war as "a quagmire."

As disturbing as those reports were, what Kulick had to say about the conduct of the war was even more troubling. He told his family that the Iraqi police "were corrupt and inept and there was no way they could ever train them to the degree where they could keep order." And when his unit went out after insurgents, far too many innocent iraqis were killed in the crossfire. And, Kulick reported home, "the more hate that created." When the Americans left an area, the insurgents came back the next day.

Eventually, when Kulick saw Iraqi citizens kneeling in the street in prayer, his interpreter would tell him they were praying for the Americans to leave. "They would rather live with evil they knew rather than live with us," Kulick said in his emails. "We were killing them as much as the insurgents were."

Kulick and his fellow Guardsmen were riding in a Humvee, reportedly armored, on night patrol on Aug. 9 when a large bomb -- containing as much as 25 to 30 pounds of explosives -- that was hidden in a drainage culvert under the roadway exploded and killed them. Just hours earlier, Kulick had called his father to tell him where his will was located and that he would want a full military funeral.

It's too early to say whether the tumultuous events of the last few weeks -- the deaths of so many Guardsmen from Pennsylvania and Ohio, the groundswell of support for grieving anti-war mom Cindy Sheehan -- will be remember as a turning point. Jim Kulick said this morning that the U.S. needs to set a timetable for getting out, and host Smerconish -- a political conservative who supported the war from early on -- was surprisingly sympathetic. Said Smerconish: "We're adrift."

Yesterday, John Kulick received the type of funeral he had asked for. His flag-draped funeral procession along York Road in Montgomery County drew firefighters from 61 local departments, and featured all the pomp and circumstance that is appropriate for a true hero like John Kulick.

But today, the cameras are gone, and flags are folded up -- and Kulick's family will continue to live with the loss. Jim Kulick said his family is "devastated" by what happened in Iraq.

None worse than his 9-year-old daughter. "Amanda is in denial," Jim Kulick said. "She said her father promised her he would come back from the war, and she still believes that."

Amanda Kulick doesn't understand what happened to her father.

Neither do we.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
julialnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. just because you enlist it didn't mean you know what you were getting into
"Your Son Volunteered...He Knew What He Was Getting Into"

http://tinyurl.com/ab52e


So did I ... in 1968 five months after the Tet offensive. I dropped out of college and enlisted.

And like the current volunteers who are described by worn-out conservative flag-wearers, I had a rough idea of what I was getting into. That "rough idea" was based on trust ... trust in a system and, ultimately, trust in a specific leader and a specific governing political party.

The specific leader of course was LBJ, the specific party was the Democratic Party and the specific system was and is the system that allows us to hang our political opinions on buttons and sanctimonious drapery of stars and stripes from which we belch our prejudices.

When you sign up you endorse a contract on the bottom line. It's a contract with specified written obligations on the part of both parties, but also with unspecified but powerful assumptions on the part of both parties.

In the case of joining the military knowing what you are getting into is based on very powerful unwritten but nationally accepted assumptions:

(1) The integrity and honor of the commander in chief of the military and that CIC's skill, wisdom and understanding of all reasons when and why military citizens are to be placed in harm's way.

As a volunteer you are at the mercy of that individual, his party and their combined priorities - with a strong expectation that those priorities extend beyond a desire to remain in the driver's seat.

(2) As a volunteer you are at the mercy of your own fellow citizens (including your own family) whom you trust to be willing and supportive in making sure the leadership does not waste your vital blood, devotion and patriotism in pipe dreams, self-interested agenda's and ideologies; That leaders are driven by a genuine desire to involve the country in on-going mutual participation and compromise regarding foreign policy before resorting to force as a last resort.

(3) Volunteering to become a soldier is volunteering to preserve and protect - with your own power and will - the country, its borders, its citizens and its institutions. It isn't volunteering to keep a political party in power. The only way to avoid that circumstance is for the citizens to assume their rightful role in the triangular relationship with the troops and the CIC.

The troops are expected to trust the CIC's wisdom as well as the patriotic participation of the Citizens who will keep the CIC honest.

The CIC is expected to trust the troops to follow orders and expects to sustain by honesty and integrity the support of the Citizens.

The Citizens expect the troops to do their duties and expect the CIC to sustain by honesty and integrity his political authority.

The Citizens must be willing to hold the CIC accountable and willfully resist when the honesty and integrity of leadership is absent.

That is what is going on right now.

The President has demonstrated a lack of leadership at a time when leadership is needed.

The killing continues daily .... and we are witness to a repeat of a leader who is like a deer caught in the headlights ... sitting there ... doing nothing ... pondering what ... while pretending to enjoy "My Pet Goat."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Obviously not a vet....
You appear to know nothing of the training/indoctrination that transforms a kid into a warrior. Everybody volunteers... few find the noble calling they volunteered for.

You appear to know nothing of where the warrior's loyalties rest. Those loyalties lie with his comrades, not with Bush, and certainly not with "freedom" for the Iraqis. Their unit becomes their family.. actually more important than their family.

You appear to imagine that troops don't bitch... endlessly... about how fucked up the higher-ups are. Marines are the worst... and with the most colorful language and descriptions. "First to go... last to know" .... unofficial Marine slogan. "Clusterfuck " .... unofficial description of nearly any Marine operation

You also appear not to realize that a young man in a combat zone is NOT going to bare his soul about his doubts and fears to his mother.

Your simplistic view tells me a lot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Hi daibhi!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. Desiree Cooper: When it takes a grieving mother's tears
You can listen to the entire commentary here:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4807652

Abstract of the commentary:
Commentary
Sheehan Adds Focus to Iraq War Debate
by Desiree Cooper

All Things Considered, August 19, 2005 · In the second of two commentaries about Cindy Sheehan, commentator Desiree Cooper says that Sheehan has focused new attention on the Iraq war. Americans are paying attention to it in a way they have not since the election. Cooper says we should be ashamed that it takes a woman who has lost her son and is willing to camp out in front of President Bush's ranch in order to focus attention on the war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
julialnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. because she is everybody's biggest fear
because people can't imagine being in her shoes (but at the same time they are forced to imagine)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
julialnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. Because she gives the soldiers that were killed
names, faces, and families that loved them.............. the number that is close to 1,900 casualties (and that's just American) used to be a statistic to many people who didn't want to deal with the unpleasantness that they are individuals..... that has changed
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC