Democracy isn't the problem, unfettered (or lightly fettered) Capitalism/Corporatism is.

[JanMichael]

I think that may be the thing that people can't seem to wrap their brains around, simply put our Economic organisation warps the Political. We have given Corporations "Person" status, and individuals/groups, inordinate/undemocratic power via the overly empowered Dollar; Media Control/Wage Slavery(somewhat exagerated but when people are stretched to make ends meet they're rarely a threat).

Our Democratic system is heavily weighted to the $$$. So while presenting fairy different, percieved, choices the status quo maintains power, with their internecine warfare as the only real battle.

Basically the vast majority of Individuals have been politically emasculated while a tiny cabal enjoy Hyper-"Democratic" Political Power.

Once this is recognised (if in fact it is to be believed) what are the solutions?


Comments?

[ursacorwin]

1. i just wrote about this over

at smirkingchimp.com, my other favorite site...

so i was arguing that a recognition of what you write may happen, albeit under a slightly different analysis. that once folks are forced to choose, as the economy tanks further, between food & shelter vs. sending checks off to corporate executive...well, it could get interesting.

the reforms of FDR were brought about in large part out of fear; the fear the superrich had of *real* social reform if the masses got smart. in a similar fashion, i think even our spineless democrats will eventually be forced to rewrite some of the laws relating to how corporations are taxed. it'll be that, or some kind of second american revolution- americans are too spoiled to live like third world people (i hope).

but it's true, there are soooo many ways in which corporations are over-empowered. seems to me the simplest way to pull their teeth is to stop spending. which i think lots of folks are beginning to do.

[Iris]

15. I hope you are right

about Americans not wanting to live like third world people. A notorious right-wing columnist in the Atlanta Journal Constitution this week blamed minimum wage and mandatory insurance laws for sending jobs overseas. I cannot believe anyone in his "right" mind would think that a citizen in this country should get less than a decent wage and adequate healthcare just so a corporation can make a few extra dollars. It's even more sickening to think he believes the companies are justified in goin overseas to exploit workers in third world countries.

[quilp]

2. US Supreme Court ruling "Money is Speech" must be overturned

This is an essential first step. Money is property, not speech. As long as those with the most money own the means of communication with unfettered use of vast amounts of money, democracy has no hope. And free speech is a sham.

[ewagner]

3. Exactly

I have been harping on this for years.

Apparently it was in 1922 that it was decided (I think by an act of congress but it may have been a court ruling)that corporations were "persons". When that happened, it opened up the floodgates for the abuse we are now seeing.

I think this issue fundamentally differientates democrats from repubs. Without government acting as watchdog and policeman, capitalism will (and has) exploited the financially vulernable, ripped off consumers, destroyed the environment, raped natural resources, and, perhaps most importantly, endangered the public health, safety and welfare.

The role of government as "traffic cop" is more important now than ever because of mergers and mega-mergers creating larger and more powerful corporations.

In Robert Reich's book, "The Work of Nations" (1990) he said that the '50s were the era of the "great bargin" between government and industry. Government would provide,a safety net for the poor, and a class of educated workers who could fill the needs of industry for labor and middle level management. Corporations/business would provide good paying jobs for creation of the great American "middleclass" as well as the hope for advancement into middle or lower/upper level management. (the great American dream). That bargain has been violated and a division between classes has become wide.

This should be a core message of the democratic/progressive movement.

[charlie]

4. It was neither Congress nor the USSC

It was an incorrect summary of the case applied to the top of the document by a clerk that's been the foundation for legal arguments of corporate "personhood". In other words, its basis is pure air, a fiction.

[ewagner]

6. thanks

I knew the date but don't know the details. Is there a link somewhere where I can enlighten myself?

Thanks again.

[charlie]

10. Here's a page I just Googled

http://www.uua.org/ga/ga03/3041.html

You can also try looking for references to the Supreme Court case, Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Corp.

[ursacorwin]

8. actually, i think corps have had personhood even longer

like, 1864 or something like that...i'm too lazy to look for it, but it was a sup. court case i think.

the age of the robber baron wouldn't have happened without some pretty pro-corporate laws on the books, nor the crash of 1890.

[freeforall]

11. Another Good Link

about corporate "personhood."

http://www.thomhartmann.com/restoredemocracy.shtml

[KG]

5. solution = democratic socialism

since the captains of industry can't be trusted to rein in their greed, and not put profits before people, some kind of oversight is needed.

[Mairead]

7. Bloody hell!

I never knew I was masculated to begin with and certainly wouldn't want to be, so I expect it's a good thing that I've been emasculated.

Or could this have been a Common Or Garden Variety Slip Of The Tongue? :evilgrin:

[JanMichael]

14. Philosophically "e-masculated"?

Sorry I forgot the gender nuetral word for getting your Democratic testicals severed by the Corporatists:evilgrin:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

9. mysterious dead gigantic sea creature that washed up .....

The mysterious dead gigantic sea creature that washed up on a Chilean beach yesterday has now been positively identified by scientists as American Diplomacy.

The 40-foot long rotting grey creature was at first misidentified as a whale, but then proved to have no spine. "That was our first clue," said Dr. James Mead of the Smithsonian Institute. "Then we had to start asking ourselves - what gigantic old creature has died recently?"



Later supposition that the carcass was a giant squid, octopus, or jellyfish was also disproved by DNA analysis. "We're quite sure," said Mead. "There's been an amazing amount of mutation since the last known diplomatic sample was taken in 1999, but it's American Diplomacy all right." Experts hypothesized that the body of policy might have developed a particularly aggressive form of cancer in the past few years, causing it to deteriorate extremely rapidly. Still, some forensic evidence indicates that the creature might have been murdered by someone or something.

The Diplomaticus americanus once roamed all the oceans freely, a gregarious, popular, and powerful creature that filled a vital niche in the ecosystem. Though it originated in the waters of the North Atlantic, by the 1940's its clarion call was a welcome sound to sailors and travelers all over the world. "But in the 21st century, American Diplomacy was seen less and less," said Mead, "and its few appearances showed it to be badly out of temper. Now we know why."
Mead went on to speculate that Diplomaticus americanus' niche would now be filled by Unilateralus rex, or "Great Very White Shark," a marine behemoth which has been spotted in rising numbers for the past few years.

[Allah Akbar]

12. Serious campaign finance reform

or revolution look like the only two options that will save this country to me.

Take your pick.

[scarletlib]

13. Captalism unregulated becomes Rabid

Like a rabid dog-wild and uncontrollable. To succeed capitalism must be regulated. The far right has sold the american people a bill of goods over the last 30yrs on capitalism. They say the market knows best and will do what is right. BALONEY!

Large unregulated corportations are the antithesis of John Adam's in his Wealth of Nations. He supported small, local companies and was very distrustful of large corporations.