Clark supporters: Are you really ok with this Acxiom/CAPPS II stuff?

[dkf]

And don't call me a flamer because I am very concerned here. Are you really willing to submit to this invasion of your privacy because you think this guy is electable? What are you giving up for getting rid of Bush?

http://hasbrouck.org/articles/CAPPS-II.html

CAPPS 2.1 would conscript travel agents, airline employees, corporate travel managers, and anyone who makes reservations for friends or family into working as surveillance agents, collecting and recording information to be passed on to the government.

CAPPS 2.1 would require travelers to provide additional information, which would be recorded in their reservations, passed on to the government, and retained by travel companies. The TSA would (it claims) purge this data on most travelers after their flights. But since the USA has no general data privacy law, and since neither CAPPS 2.1 nor any other Federal law or regulation restricts use of travel data by private companies, travel companies would be free to retain this additional information -- which travelers would be required by government regulation to provide -- and to use it, rent it, or sell it without travelers' knowledge or permission. CAPPS-II would require travelers to provide information to travel companies under government order, but then treat the information as though it were a "gift" that the travel companies, not travelers, would own and control. Such an expropriation of travellers' personal information for private travel companies' use and profit, under government coercion, would constitute an improper and unconstitutional taking of personal informational property without compensation.

The additional information required by CAPPS 2.1 could be used to correlate each travel reservation (currently indexed only by flight number or reservation record locator) with a specific person, and to index separate reservations for individual trips into databases easily searchable by name, birthday, address, or phone number. CAPPS-II would thus enable the government and private travel companies (especially the four main CRS's which host almost all airline reservations worldwide) to create comprehensive lifelong dossiers of everywhere each person has travelled, when, how, with whom, whether (behind the closed doors of their hotel room) they asked for one bed or two, and many other intimate details of their lives as revealed by their travel histories. These travel databases would be vulnerable to theft and/or abuse.

The additional identifying and indexing information required by CAPPS 2.1, and provided under government order, would make it as easy for the government to investigate and obtain the details of your travel history as to obtain your criminal history from NCIC. (Even though travel isn't a crime.) Even if travel records aren't stored by the government, the current lack of travel privacy or data privacy law in the USA makes travel records available to the government from travel companies for the asking, without notice to the traveller. Simply by asking the big four CRS's and a few other airlines, the government could obtain a comprehensive report of your past travels.

--

If you don't know the connection between Clark and Capps II:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7380-2003Sep26.html

"As a consultant, (Clark) helped the company win a government contract worth an undisclosed amount to provide data and consulting services to the CAPPS II program. CAPPS II is the second-generation computer-assisted passenger screening system, a network that Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta once described as "the foundation" on which all other, far more public aviation security measures depend.

A senior executive at Acxiom said Clark began knocking on doors for the company, without pay, out of patriotic impulses shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks. Jerry Jones, Acxiom's general counsel and business development leader, said the company also wanted to do its part in the war on terrorism."

--

For goodness sakes, Clark so believes in this danged CAPPS II that he lobbied on his own freaking time!

[DoveTurnedHawk]

1. REBUTTAL

I have known for some time that Clark has lobbied the military and the government on programs that he believes in (including ALTERNATIVE ENERGY BICYCLES, for Pete's sake), and I do not begrudge for one moment the fact that he is paid for his introduction services. He has a valuable commodity and is compensated for it. It is no surprise to anyone that his most valuable commodities are in the military, where he spent his entire career. If he'd wanted to, he could have become a complete whore and lobbied for weapons systems, he could have immersed himself on K Street. But he didn't do that.

As for CAPPS II, the person in charge of the program is LOYAL DEMOCRAT Norm Mineta, the head of the Department of Transportation. As a Japanese American, he was INTERNED in an American concentration camp during WWII, and so I think this is one man who has just a wee bit of knowledge of and concern for the issue of imposing on civil liberties.

Clark obviously believed in this program enough to work FOR FREE on it (something which can be verified easily, I imagine, as Acxiom is a public company), and he obviously took a balanced view of it:

"Government and industry officials who have attended meetings with Clark described him as thoughtful and persuasive. Jones, the Acxiom official, said Clark repeatedly stressed the need to "properly balance legitimate privacy interests and the need for security." Jones said that was a core theme of Acxiom's effort to win government contracts."

If we have to have lobbyists at all, I think that describes exactly the sort of lobbyist we want. I also think that CAPPS II is a potentially important and useful program. With Norm Mineta overseeing the decision, I feel confident that it will be fine.

I also note that people who are in favor of gun registration and background checks also should not have much of a problem with this program in concept, IMO.

Finally, Clark is also a critic of the USA PATRIOT Act, and he has actually read all 1200 pages, apparently three times (unlike all of our legislators, who apparently passed it without even having TIME to read it all, practically). I'm comfortable with his positions here, and I'm not at all fazed by the news that he (gasp) actually used his military connections.

DTH

[dkf]

5. Norm Mineta is a nice guy, but I don't think he really has the

clout or the cojones to buck whatever the Administration wants.

Can you imagine who would come out on top in a tussle between Mineta and Ashcroft?

I'd say that is no match.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

7. Mineta Will Scream Bloody Murder If CAPPS Is Bogus

If you doubt that, you do NOT know Norm Mineta. He is a great Democrat, and as a fellow Asian American, I am proud of him.

DTH

[dkf]

9. Odd.

I'm Asian American too. In fact, I'm Japanese American.

No one in my family was interned but some in my family had their businesses seized.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

10. A Tragic and Outrageous Time

I wrote papers on the subject. Every time I think of it, I become angry all over again.

Peace!

DTH

[Dookus]

12. I live adjacent to Norm Mineta's old district....

and I, too have faith in him. He's an upstanding guy with a distinguished record of service.

If he AND Clark worked on this, then my gut tells me it's OK. They're both honorable men who have spent their lives defending our liberties.

[dkf]

6. BTW, I'm not in the least concerned if he lobbied or not

(money schmoney) but he is on the board of a data mining firm that keeps detailed info on all of us. And he owns stock in that company.

I really think that this is the sort of debate we need to have on our candidates.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

8. He Owns a Paltry Amount of Stock

I think around $47,000 or so.

DTH

[dkf]

11. It's not the money, its the belief.

I'm not trying to accuse him of being mercenary. On the contrary, I'm worried about his attachment to these ideas that sound awfully big brotherish to me.

Sounds to me like his passion to protect people is more powerful than his passion for protecting privacy.

So don't get me wrong, I am not accusing Clark of being out for himself. I just think in his zeal to protect us, he may undermine the values that we are supposed to be standing for.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

14. The Company Is Not All About CAPPS

That's just one small part of it. It's a $1.3 Billion company.

I'm willing to bet that Clark will resign his board position promptly if he gets the nomination. And in terms of his priorities, I think he does balance them, it's a tough line to walk, but I think he's got his heart in the right place. And I think a CAPPS-like program, properly done and with the right safeguards, could be a very useful thing. Again, I liken it to gun registration background checks.

DTH

[Toucano]

2. Jury still out.

Clark hasn't explained it yet. In fairness, I need to hear his side of the story.

[mhr]

3. All Clark's Ugly Truths Can Be Found Here

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles8/DVNS_Wesley-Clark.htm

http://www.prorev.com/politics.htm#clark

[roguevalley]

4. he quit them

*

[Tinoire]

15. No he didn't. He is still on their Board of Directors

In fact on the "Corporate Governance" page, he's the picture they show for the Board of Directors
http://www.acxiom.com/default.aspx?ID=2192&Country_Code=USA

On the Board of Directors page, this is what you'll find:

Board of Directors

General Wesley K. Clark

Dr. Ann Hayes Die

William T. Dillard II

Harry C. Gambill

William J. Henderson

Rodger S. Kline

Thomas F. (Mack) McLarty, III

Charles D. Morgan

Stephen M. Patterson

James T. Womble


General Wesley K. Clark

Age: 58, Elected: 2001

General Wesley K. Clark (U.S. Army, Retired) is chairman and CEO of Wesley K. Clark & Associates, a business services and development firm based in Little Rock, Arkansas. He is senior military analyst for Cable News Network (CNN) and is Chairman of the Board of WaveCrest Laboratories, a technology company that specializes in electric propulsion systems that transform electrical energy into mechanical motion. General Clark is a noted speaker presenting key insights on strategic leadership, foreign and military policy and high technology to corporate leaders and other audiences. He serves pro bono as a distinguished senior advisor for the Center for Strategic & International Studies (CSIS), as a Director of the Atlantic Council, and as a member of the board of the International Crisis Group, Messer-Griesheim and SIRVA Corporation. General Clark began his military career by graduating first in his class at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point in 1966. Upon becoming the Supreme Allied Commander, Europe, in 1997, he was in overall command of NATO’s military forces in Europe. He also served as the Commander in Chief of the U.S. European Command. In 1999, General Clark commanded the alliance’s military response to the Kosovo crisis. He retired in 2000 after a highly distinguished and decorated 34-year military career. In that same year, he was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the nation’s highest civilian honor. Following his retirement from the Army, he was employed by Stephens Group, Inc. of Little Rock, Arkansas, working in high technology venture capital as Managing Director-Merchant Director. He resigned from this position in February 2003 to pursue other interests. In addition to his degree from West Point, General Clark received a master’s degree in philosophy, politics and economics from Oxford University, where he studied as a Rhodes Scholar.
-------------


Sep 18 2003

Wesley Clark Keeps Acxiom, Other Board Memberships: Reports

Wesley Clark, the former Army General who announced his candidacy for the Democratic presidential nomination on Sept. 17, has not given up his board memberships, according to published accounts.
Since retiring from the military in 2000, Clark has held a variety of industrial positions, including jobs with a Washington, DC-based technology firm, an investment company, and director or advisor positions with six other organizations. In most cases he was brought on board to assist with military or government contracts.

One such company is Acxiom Corp., the Little Rock, AR-based data firm. Clark joined Acxiom in December 2001, and played a part in the company’s efforts to market its services to federal organizations involved in homeland security, according to Acxiom spokesman Dale Ingram.

<snip>

While Clark is maintaining his position on Acxiom’s board of directors, he did terminate his consulting agreement with the company upon announcing his candidacy. That contract was valued at $150,000 per year, said Ingram.

http://www.directmag.com/ar/marketing_wesley_clark_keeps/

http://www.acxiom.com/default.aspx?ID=1668&Country_Code=USA

[DoveTurnedHawk]

17. Most Americans Do Not View Capitalism as Evil

Most Americans will see Clark's membership on certain Boards to be the hallmark of a successful businessman. And they'll be right.

DTH

[Tinoire]

22. That's your response to a correction that Clark is still with Acxiom?

Seems to me you could just have corrected post number 4, since you know Clark is still on the board but I guess it's easier to ignore an incorrect fact and then swing by with some mumbo-jumbo about people viewing capitalism as evil.

You'll really have to point me to a post where I said capitalism is evil. Materialism maybe. Imperialism definitely. But Capitalism?

Link please :shrug: Not that it has anything to do with the privacy issues or corporate greed in the initial post but, wth, just for entertainment.

This wouldn't be a sly way of trying to paint people not enamoured with Clark as Socialists or Communists, would it?

Last time I checked, I was still a card-carrying Democrat. Been that way since I was 18 but with all this confusion about who's what these days, I checked anyway. So card-carrying Capitalist Democrat about sums it up. Well, Leftist too- maybe that's the confusion.

It is late. Good-night.

[Dookus]

13. good schtick....

maybe somebody, somewhere, someday will pay attention.

[RandomUser]

16. Lol

You've gone into thread after thread posting this. Even in the threads that explicitly said they wanted no bashing, and said that other candidate supporters should post their own candidate supporter threads.

[RandomUser]

18. Nope, doesn't concern me

This was already rebutted by a DU'er whose girlfriend works for Acxiom. Acxiom is being misrepresented as a boogeyman. Spin, spin, spin.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

19. Must've Missed This

Do you remember where you saw this? Thanks.

DTH

[RandomUser]

20. Not sure

It was a few days ago, which is why I get annoyed that these same debunked lies are being trotted out over and over again. The answer was in one of the gazillion threads these flamers probably don't bother reading, just trying to flood the forum with more topics. Hmm...trying to remember...t was someone who stuck up for clark....it might have been Pepperbelly...not sure...ask him if it was his girlfriend, if not...hmmm...trying to remember. Sigh, I think that's partly the point of all these idiot bashing spammers, trying to flood the forum so we can't find the positive information. Damn I wish I'd bookmarked it.

[RandomUser]

21. try running a forum search

on "girlfriend" and "acxiom"

hope this helps.

[OKNancy]

23. It was Pepperbelly

who gives us great information about Arkansas...and of course his cousin Wes.

[Cat M.]

24. Invasion of privacy?

Exactly how is your privacy being invaded? Do you imagine the government doesn't already know your name and address and social security number?

Did you know that they have access to any state DMV records, which will tell them what kind of car you drive and who insures it and any mishaps you've had?

They also have access--as anyone does--to your property records. By entering an address OR name, they can find out what kind of house you own, how much you paid, what taxes you pay on it--

Through tax forms, they know how many children you claim, their names, and their Social Security numbers. They know what daycare you send them to if you itemize. They know who you work for and how much you get paid. They know whether you claim gambling losses or donate to charities and if they merely audited you, they could get your bank records easily enough.

This idea that there's some sort of "privacy" being violated is ridiculous. All Acxiom's information is publicly available and none of it was gathered illegally.

I have no problem with anybody complaining about the CAPPS II program. Whenever the government institutes a program that lacks proper oversight, like the TSA lists, there's a chance for serious abuses. But Acxiom is merely doing what any capitalist company does--they took the time to compile the information readily available to anyone and are selling that work to the government.

If there was no Acxiom, the government would merely compile the information itself at greater cost to taxpayers.

Clark lobbied for Acxiom. He didn't lobby for CAPPS II. He also stressed the need to balance privacy concerns with security concerns. I'd much rather have someone concerned about peoples' rights involved in this than someone like, oh say Ashcroft, who thinks people have no rights.

Clark is on record as staunchly opposing the Patriot Act as is and has criticized the Bush administration extensively for violating people's rights including habeus corpus. He's certainly not someone who advocates invading people's privacy and his involvement in Acxiom is a pretty pathetic example if you're trying to indict his character.

This sounds like nothing more than a smear machine at work, taking the most innocuous things and trying to turn them into ammunition to sabotage a campaign--political terrorism if you will.

http://blogs.salon.com/0002556/

I'm far more concerned about the billions of dollars that have gone to Halliburton and Bechtel without fair bidding and true accountability and despite Halliburton's previous record of overbilling the government for which they were censured.

And I'm more concerned with the Patriot Act and the TSA list than CAPPS II. For the TSA list, anyone high up in government (like the White House, the CIA, the FBI, the Justice Department), calls TSA and says "put this person on this list" and that person gets on the list, no questions asked, which is how so many anti-Bush people have wound up on the list.

The problem is the government treating every citizen like a suspect and relying on faulty methods to determine who is likely to be a terrorist. The problem is not Acxiom which hasn't given the government much mroe than they could get out of any phone book or their own records.