Did I watch the same Over There as most of you?

[dsc]

I saw a show which I honestly think would make us withdraw from Iraq if it were seen by enough people. Even as the show failed to humanize Iraqis, a big mistake, it still managed to bring home the extreme ugliness that is this war. I won't go into spoiler details, as I don't know how FX airs its shows, but I have to say anyone who watched this show and then said "Gee, I think I will sign up to fight in Iraq" is certifiable.

The show is violent to the point of making me wince, but thought provoking as good TV should be. I urge everyone to watch the show if they can. Write FX and let them know you appreciate them bring this show to the airwaves. It wasn't until after VietNam that the anti War MASH made it to the airwaves, though it did make it to theaters while troops were in VietNam. This show, though not as intentionally anti war as MASH, is in its own way very antiwar. And while it still matters.

Again, I am amazed to be reading about FOX plots to support the war with this show. Maybe I missed the message, it wouldn't be the first time.

[Connie_Corleone]

1. I think some people already had their minds made up.

They figured the show would be some right-wing, gung-ho show supporting the Iraq invasion, and for some strange reason, that's what they saw tonight.

If I was 18 or in my early 20's, there's no way in hell I would join the armed forces after seeing that episode.

[dsc]

3. I was beginning to wonder if the heat here had melted my brain

My air conditioning went out for a bit over an hour and it got quite hot. Glad to see at least a few people saw the same show I did.

[Maru Kitteh]

81. We watched some of it too and I agree with you

We were concerned the show was going to be some gung-ho kick-ass recruitment vehicle.

What we saw was anything but. The show pretty much opened with an officer who explained with much evident anger that he was supposed to be going home that day and he ended up getting screwed out of his ticket home. There was a young black guy nick-named Angel that ended up in the service because he traveled from a deep south state to NYC to make a living singing, didn't get the job he wanted and couldn't face going home. His advice to a newbie? Don't ever do something (big) out of anger. There were lots of things that should make potential cannon fodder think at least twice about signing over their bodies and souls.

I'm not sure what the freeptards think of it yet (haven't looked, such a FUGLY and boring site) but I'm going to guess they are attacking it as "anti-troops" and liberal drivel and perhaps even treasonous.

[NYCGirl]

2. Most of the people who are criticizing the show haven't seen it.

I think they just hear "Fox" and have a knee-jerk reaction.

I have my TiVo set for one of the showings in a few days. I'm eager to see it.

[dsc]

4. Stay away from threads and any of the interviews

There are some major spoilers you don't want to hear of.

[NYCGirl]

6. I'm pleased to hear you liked the show.

Spoilers generally don't bother me (unless it's a mystery or suspense film), I can still enjoy it.

[dsc]

13. I am not sure I would use the word liked

I would hope no one would like watching what I just got done watching, which may well be the show's undoing, but I do think it was necessary to see.

[NYCGirl]

14. I know what you mean. There's a film by an interesting director named

Todd Solandz called "Happiness." It's a remarkable film, but for many reasons one couldn't say they either liked or enjoyed it. But it's a fascinating experience, and I guess I could say I admired the film.

[dsc]

17. Great example

I would also classify Silence of the Lambs that way. It richly deserved to break the streak of horror films being skunked at Oscar time but I would really wonder about a person who enjoyed that film.

[Gabi Hayes]

7. did I just see a female soldier get shot while taking a leak?

click

that's all I needed

[Connie_Corleone]

10. No, a female soldier didn't get shot. She got shot at.

You should've watched the rest of the show to see what really happened to her.

[RamboLiberal]

18. She got that famous grazed the head wound

Note she was wearing a bandage on her head. Course she fell backwards as the insurgent shot at her in the dark, so maybe plausible.

[rinsd]

51. Not necessarily...don't forget about the mortar (nt)

[Gabi Hayes]

26. no, thanks....I'll take a piss, er, pass on that

I don't need to be reminded of what we're doing once more.....

I talked to some jackass neocon wingnut on Sirius radio today who has a book out (novel) in which our oh so brave nocs take it to the terra-ists

I got REALLY pissed at the guy, who's great friends with the likes of Dewey Clarridge, Negroponte, Reich, etal. the host told me to calm down, as I called his pals mass murderers, brought up the 200K slaughtered in Guatemala, the Church Commission, resultant appointment of Turner to clean up CIA mess (after he praised Colby/castigated Turner for firing so many wetworkers and 'ruining' our intel capabilities)

really disgusting creep....lemme see if I can google him

btw, the next two callers agreed with me, vis a vis the guest, and one of them said I should have been the guest, not him!

[Gabi Hayes]

28. here's the dick I talked to on the radio today...STILL furious about it

http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Weisman_Index,00.html

people like him are the reason I don't like shows like this: there's more than enough reality out there to spoil me day

[sysoprock]

45. Crazy! I think I listened to you today!

Was it on Alex Bennett?

I remember listening to some caller school Alex's guest over all those topics. Right after some old lady called and suggested that the caller be the guest instead of the author.

Was that you?

[Gabi Hayes]

56. it certainly was.....I just about lost it, though, cause I was so incensed

I've since done some more checking on Clarridge, and he was one of the two authors of the Downing (ha) Plan, which was a rehashing of a proposal CHALABI first gave to Clinton, then was picked up by the whole PNAC/SAIC/INC Cabal

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq-downing.htm

on top of THAT, Clarridge was a key figure in missiles for hostages, as WELL as drugs for weapons (he helped fucking North establish the infamous Ilopango airbase).

the missile thing was one of the SEVEN items for which he was indicted (five perjury counts), then pardoned

I could go on, but I'm unbeLIEVABLY furious now, as my brother just reminded me of his church's mission in El Salvador, which was to rebuild an entire village wiped out by the death squads during their civil war, abetted by our war criminal of the time, MOST of whom are back in power. he goes down there every year, as he speaks fluent Spanish. A most heartbreaking story, but one of the few instances in which organized religion plays a positive role in modern society

[RamboLiberal]

12. She got shot while taking a shit

That is realistic. I think that's the first time I saw a show about war address that particular need while in the field.

[Neshanic]

72. That's key. Lets remember that point when we object to the next war.

Item one....make sure you show crapping death.

For all you aspiring writers..take note.

[Old and In the Way]

5. Interesting line-up tonight. "Over There", "Uncovered: The Whole Truth",

and F/911. Hmmmmm, maybe the message is finally getting out?

[fishnfla]

8. I dont watch TV, but I read it was pretty graphic, reminded me of

a story that was posted on DU awhile back. A US soldier back from Iraq (A Captain as I recall) made a presentation at a boy scout meeting, a slideshow. The formerly gung-ho crowd was repulsed by the images. The soldier made his point.
I think alot of soldiers would like the country to know how dangerous over there

<he types from the safety of his air-conditioned living room>

edit context error

[Maru Kitteh]

82. And sometimes this is the only way we can honor that wish

under this administration and with the corporate whore media.

[FreedomAngel82]

9. Sounds like a good movie

I love FX and they usually have pretty good stuff on there. I'll have to try catch it.

[dsc]

11. Series, not movie

[redwitch]

15. It was quite good

Which I have come to expect from Steven Bochco. And if it made anyone think about enlisting anytime soon I would be very surprised. The roadside explosion and subsequent footage was hard to take.

[RamboLiberal]

16. I watched the same Over There you did and the last 5 minutes

has me wondering if the 101st Fighting Keyboardists and the 82nd Blathering Chickenhawks will tomorrow be screaming about "liberal Hollywood's" dramatic propaganda about the war.

I thought the first half of the show a little slow, but this is the pilot setting and introing the characters, etc.

The previews look like Bocho is going to tackle a lot of issues about what is happening in this war.

Some of the graphical scenes in the show are ala Saving Private Ryan. Looks like Bocho is not sparing the viewer the horror. He's not sanitizing this too much.

I trust Bocho to make this interesting and thought provoking. And the show's lyrics at the end wasn't exactly pro-war IMHO. I hope a soundtrack comes out of this show.

I say this show looks promising. Bocho can't go blatantly anti-war if he wants to keep it on.

[ptolle]

60. new unit

Sir- I did not realize until seeing your post that new unit had formed. I was familiar,of course, with the 101st, but I had missed the formation of the 82nd. I congratulate you on catching that.That said, I've not seen the bochco series and really have no plans to do so having once seen a real war up close and personal.I'm waiting to see how long it takes for someone to complain about the violence being too graphic/realistic. It's generally been my position that when violence is presented it's not graphic/realistic enough, that is to say that the representation of the consequences of that degree of violence are not enough to persuade someone from perpetrating further violence.Certainly no American TV series is going to realistically present the results of high velocity shards of metal striking the human body. The opening sequences of saving Private Ryan came as close as I suppose Hollywood can get, I doubt a TV series would go there despite the truthfulness of the representation.

[trekbiker]

67. the violence is very graphic..

much like Saving Private Ryan. This series is not going to help with recruitment thats for sure..

[Maru Kitteh]

83. My father was there on that beach............

I can't tell you how many times I awakened alone in my bedroom to the sounds of my father screaming like he had been set on fire or being pulled apart limb from limb.

There is nothing more frighting as a little girl in the late sixties as hearing the bedrock and protector of your family in a wailing terrified cry.

There is so much that war does for so many decades that never shows up directly into the statistics and the official reports.

My father couldn't talk about the war, so he didn't. He only spoke to me once about it. He made it off that beach. He was a communtications officer. I have photographs that he took in Hitlers damaged 'Haus Wachenfeld' The only time he EVER talked to me about his experience was when "The Houlocaust" aired on television. While other parents were forbidding their kids to watch, my father INSISTED that I watch. We were about 4 days into a chess game at the time it started, and it was just understood the game was going to wait until that series was over. When the series was over, we resumed our game. It was then that he told me of being sent in to clean up the camps. He told me about the living skeletons who were left there..... and the smell. He told me about living human beings hosting multitudes of maggots..... who were, against all comprehension, happy. He told me about cleaning up the massive ovens.

It's the memory of sweeping up a big pile of baby fingers, baby feet, and baby hands that never left and terrified us all in the night. He said he couldn't imagine what they did to those babies that would leave behind their hands, feet, fingers and toes the way they did. He said he couldn't imagine but you know what? I think he spent the rest of his life imagining what they did.

This is what war does.

[deadparrot]

19. The show's premise doesn't appeal to me,

but I read in TV Guide that it's probably not for anyone who has strong opinions about the war either way.

[trekbiker]

69. people who have strong feelings in support

of this war are definately not going to like this series. It's a graphic portrayal of the insanity and waste of this war

[Maru Kitteh]

84. The shows premise should not appeal to ANY humane person

It's not a matter of appeal, like F911, it's about reality that the shrub administraion would ranther we NEVER....EVER.......see.

[Carni]

20. I watched it and didn't think it was pro-war

AT ALL

Yes, there was some minimal RW crap thrown in (the women being a burden or whatever) but by and large I thought it painted a very dismal picture of this whole bullshit exercise that our troops and the Iraqis have been thrown into and I thought it made this *war* look a hell of a lot like Vietnam.

Forgive the F out of me to people who want to discount this thing off the bat but it was more thought provoking than I ever would have expected.

Flame away-!

[noamnety]

21. I was watching the same show as you

The folks who refuse to watch it have given it brutal reviews, however, citing among other things the gratuitous sexual tension that was rampant in it, how they glossed over dead bodies, and they don't like the music. :)

The freepers who watched it, likewise, hate it and are already organizing to complain to advertisers and organize boycotts. Apparently they don't own remotes.

[Nevernose]

23. Do you have any links to FR?

I prefer perusing their site as little as possible...

[noamnety]

24. hexola posted a link

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1452043/posts

[Nevernose]

25. W/ reviews like that, I'M DEFINATELY WATCHING

Thanks!

[Maru Kitteh]

85. Ah... the best of the worst..............

To: girlangler
Yes, it has a Democratic Party bias, but it's pretty entertaining. I liked it.



7 posted on 07/27/2005 7:31:32 PM PDT by AL1049 (what movie???????)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies >

---------------------------

To: girlangler
You'd have better luck complaining if you were Muslim and you claimed that the show defamed you. Then you'd get an on-air apology.



12 posted on 07/27/2005 7:33:55 PM PDT by SlowBoat407 (A living affront to Islam since 1959)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies >

-----------------------

To: Txsleuth
Fox is betting that we wont put our money where our mouths are. For me personally, this is the last straw. I have already emailed them that I will cease consuming ANY of their products until this treasonous garbage is off the air.



13 posted on 07/27/2005 7:35:04 PM PDT by Now_is_The_Time
____________________________________

WE HAVE A TREASONOUS! 5 Points for me!**
_____________________________________
***And then there is this asshole***

To: girlangler
I was in Hershey, PA recently and I can't figure out if the Hershey bar was named after the town or if the town was named after the Hershey bar. *** read here; hershey pa has too many special darks or chocolate, or however you would like to code it.***

_____________________________________

Freepers await the "truth" about September the 11th, 2oo1..... PRICELESS.......
____________________________________

To: girlangler
Think this FX movie is full of lies - Wait till the first movie about 9/11 is released. I hear Oliver Stone is making it. Medved mentioned this on his radio show the othre day.



27 posted on 07/27/2005 7:47:53 PM PDT by NavyCanDo

[A-Schwarzenegger]

27. I saw only 2 people here who were unimpressed, and they both

refused to watch it. Odd.

[GreenPartyVoter]

22. My thoughts thus far

-sterotypical and flat characters (I guess it'll take some time to get them to grow)

-could there be more gunfire?

-I did kinda like the comment from sarge about the general 72 miles away deciding the outcome of their situation based on how the PR might go

-the roadside bomb seemed darned realistic

-sticking the song in the middle of the show.. that was very contrived. I didn't feel moved.. I felt embarassed. It just didn't fit

[noamnety]

32. It's a lot of characters to introduce in one hour

I did kind of chuckle at the nicknames thing - must be hard to find a noncontrived way to introduce them all so quickly.

[fob]

53. "sticking the song in the middle of the show" UH OH, I didn't see it, I

forgot it was on but Bochco's not trying to redo Cop Rock as Iraq Rock is he? Did one of the troops break out in song or was it just playing over the action?

[RamboLiberal]

75. One of the African-American characters was a singer

who auditioned in NYC for some kind of choir and didn't make the cut. Instead of going back home to Arkansas in shame he joined the Army. He sang a song he was writing to one of the other soldiers in their tent.

At the end they used that song to music as the theme as helicoptered an IED injured soldier off.

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. "We didn't come for your oil. We came to kick your ass."

That's when I shut it off. Blech.

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. Oh yeah, and when one character said "Keep your eyes peeled."

Bad dialogue is bad dialogue, regardless of the setting. I mean, Keep your eyes peeled?!? Seriously...

[Windy]

49. Of course the soldiers have to believe that to get by...

I was in the military and thought it was very realistic. I think people are too comfortable over here with a war going on over there. They have NO CLUE what this war is about and that death and destruction do happen. The right will HATE this show. Its NOT sanitized at all!

[OctOct1]

31. I watched the last 20 min

Thanks for posting about it.
I hope there is a big stink made about this show so that everyone tunes in to see what the fuss is about.
They say parents are discouraging kids from signing up now -Well-
let them see this show.
It is disturbing.
It is my worst nightmare. I have a 14 year old son and am scared to death he may have to sacrifice his lively hood for this lying bunch of criminals

[Algorem]

33. are there any blind soldier characters?

[noamnety]

37. I'll probably regret asking this

but what are you talking about?

[Algorem]

39. Botchko's the same turd-brained douchebag that made Blind Justice,

the quickly-canceled show about the blind police detective.

[noamnety]

40. Ah, thanks.

I was right.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

41. Trust yer intuition...

[noamnety]

34. Where to email support

[e-mail]

I see they are starting to appear on the FX message board as well, if anyone wants to weigh in. Maybe it doesn't matter, but even if there are lots of flame wars, FX will at least see people are interested.

http://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/originals/overthere/main.html

[MsTryska]

62. ya know...i haven't seen the show yet....but this is what i don't get

abotu FX - it seems to me lately they've bene willing to take some serious risks with their programming.

Why do they insist on putting their new shows at the tail end of primetime?


and why they don't repeat them more often?

like say tomorrow night - when they have a solid 2 hour block of king of the hill? they could put Over There soemwhere in there, and actually pick up soem viewership.


I'm an early to bed, late to rise, kinda girl. I rarely watch TV after 9pm on a school night.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

63. It will repeat SATURDAY NIGHT at 10PM on FX.

Beyond that I dunno, but I would bet it will be on
again in the following days a number of times before
a new one next Wed. night.

[MsTryska]

64. yeah thanks - i saw that on their website -

i'm gonna do my best to catch it Saturday night.

[Corgigal]

35. I also watched it

I heard the black solider talking about himself as a fool for enlisting but the white solider said he loved the Army. How that same solider wasn't doing anything but sitting in the back of the truck and was blown up. He is now coming home with a leg and I think a arm gone.

I saw some rings of truth in this show. If this makes some American people understand what these people have to go through then I'm all for it. I gather to say over 50 percent of our citizens don't think about these people at all. Be it Americans or Iraqi's.


It was only the 1st hour but I liked it so far. I hate romantic war movies and I felt this one isn't it.

[trekbiker]

70. was the kid that lost his leg in the end

the same one that was the high school football star and looking forward to a college football scholarship??

[RamboLiberal]

76. I believe that was the guy - his name was Bo

He was the one who didn't have a nickname cause everyone thought Bo was his nickname.

[trekbiker]

77. thats right.. the other guy told him he

was a natural leader and then Bo talked about quarterbacking and not being able to afford college even though he had a partial football scholarship...

I think this series is going to drive home the insanity over there.

I'll stick with it a few more episodes to see where it's heading.

[JackRiddler]

36. im one of the bastards

who have panned it w/out viewing.

Sounds like my understanding of the preview ads is being confirmed by what most of you report:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4198183&mesg_id=4198183

[dsc]

47. Please point out the use of the word bastards in my post

Yes I want an actuall quote where I use that word.

[JackRiddler]

78. oh please

I used that word, not you, and sorry if you misinterpret my cuteness as my implying you said it. (I could have also said curmudgeon.)

And gays aren't kept out of the military, as long as they silently whip themselves in a corner.

Now if only they also ban heterosexuals we may finally have some progress in this country.

[dsc]

48. BTW there is no chance there will be a gay person on that show

remember we aren't welcome in the military.

[Neshanic]

73. You sir, nailed it right to the wall. Finally.

[JackRiddler]

79. thanks

[milkyway]

38. I liked it a lot. By not seeming to take a stand for or against the war,

it's a much more powerful anti-war statement. Instead, it attempts to be a realistic look from the soldiers' perspective. Here's what the average viewer would take away from watching this:

1. War is Hell.
2. Placed in extreme situations, common people sometimes are heroic.
3. There's no fucking way I would ever want to be over there.

And left unstated, but the logical conclusion: Why are these kids sent over there to live through this nightmare? Just for a bunch of lies?

[dejaboutique]

42. oh my god

I just saw it! my god...i was wondering which way it would swing..I think ANYONE that would see this would want immediate withdrawl. I am sure the white house is not happy with this series. I just feel sick after seeing that.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

43. Just saw it too. Anybody who is against the war

and also against this show
did not see this show. I bet the WH is doing
everything they can to get this show off the air.

[Rose Siding]

54. I found it to be very moving

Afterwards I took a walk and cried. Our own are enduring hell on earth.

The writers *seem* to have worked closely with service members (don't see how they could invent the whole thing) so an amount of empathy was to be expected, but there was balance.

I'll be interested in hearing reviews from any enlisted types.

[trekbiker]

71. I'll be surprised if it survives the first season.. WH will be

stepping up the pressure on FOX

[stewarde]

44. sounds as if...

For this show to be on Fox satellite channel FX (which has 2 of the best shows on TV with Rescue Me and the Shield) to make folks want out of Iraq surprises me.

I bet its just that we all want out of Iraq so badly to bring our boys and girls home or send them to do the real work and get Osama that the fighting there just accentuates it for us.

[SeattleGirl]

46. Just watched it too

I liked it, if "like" can be a word used to describe this show. It is just a couple of degrees below "Saving Private Ryan" in some of the combat scenes, which is fine, because combat ain't pretty. I read an article in the Seattle Times by Melanie McFarlane (sp?) who is sometimes on "So What Else is News" on AAR -- she's one of our TV columnists in Seattle. She said that Bochcco was leaving it up to the viewer to decide their take on it, that he was not going into it with a pro- or anti-war view, and based on the comments here, I think he's hit it. "Make up your own mind" is what he seems to be saying. I think it is an important show.

One comment on this thread was that the Iraqi's were not shown in a very sympathetic light, which I would agree with, but would qualify that by saying that the Iraqi's shown in this episode seemed to be insurgents. I seem to recall that some of them would hole up in mosques and wage fights from there. I will withhold judgment on how the Iraqi people are portrayed for several more episodes, to see if they also show civilians. They may be portrayed in a different way. I'm going to just keep an open mind.

One thing that MilkyWay brought to mind, in the post noting "extreme environments" (or situations, sorry -- don't recall which word was used). When I was in college, I took a sociology class called "Extreme Environments." Once of the environments we studied was war -- obviously a very extreme environment. We had to read a book called "The 13th Valley" by John Del Vecchio. It was set during the Vietnam War, and Mr. Del Vecchio is himself a Vietnam Vet. You all might want to check it out, as it is -- at least for someone who has never been in a combat situtation -- one of the best books I've ever read about war. It follows an infantry company during their stay "in country", and was extremely enlightening to me in terms of what happens to people in the midst of war. One character in particular I recall was a young man who could have been Radar O'Reilly from M*A*S*H when he got to Vietnam. He changed, and not in a good way. Was he inherently a bad guy? No. But he was put in a bad situation, and he didn't react well at all to it. It changed how I viewed people who had been in combat, and it made me feel on a very deep level that unless you have been there, you don't -- CANT'T -- know what it's really like. And that's why I think this might be a good show -- so people can see, as best as can be portrayed on TV, what war is like, what the stress can do to people, both positively and negatively.

I would be very interested in hearing from those DUers who are vets on what their take on this show is.

Edited to change a word.

[redqueen]

50. I liked it.

I liked Silence of the Lambs, too. Guess you might worry about me...

[KarenInMA]

52. The show was well done. It was stark

and realistic. People who are hating on it are mad because the soldiers aren't sitting around talking about how they really hate Bush for putting them in this situation, and the fact that after the first hour, none of the characters have tortured a prisoner.

There are plenty of people who have no idea how bad it is, and I think this could help some of the freepers wake up.

[alcibiades_mystery]

55. The Flawed Premise: War Supporters believe in a sanitized war

I don't think that's the case. I don't think anyone needs to be "informed" or "woken up" about how nasty it is "over there." If you think blood and guts are going to turn people away from this war, you're working on a flawed premise. People, rather, love it.

[dsc]

58. I honestly believe that way too many people think

war is like a video game. Sure there are a core who will support virtually no matter what, but there are quite a few who I think are supporting a video game style war.

[alcibiades_mystery]

61. I honestly believe you're wrong

As Leonard Cohen said, everybody knows. The conceit that "we" are the enlightened ones who know and that the rest of the people simply need to be "woken up" is not only arrogant, it is quite dangerous. People know what war is. I think what scares most DUers is that people know and don't care, or feel that it is worth it. Rather than face that hard political reality, DUers construct a public who merely needs to be "informed." This has the side benefit of making many people here feel superior to the so-called "sheeple." But it ain't so. Everybody knows, whether they admit it or not. Simply showing the violence of the war will do little to change positions.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

65. Well, something has been changing people's minds on the war, right?

You seem to be saying that minds have quickened and solidified
and nothing will change them. But the polls dont show that.
I have no idea if this will change any minds or heart, but
neither do you. Have you seen it?

[alcibiades_mystery]

66. I'm not saying that at all

Whatever is changing people's minds, it is not the graphic portrayal of the war. That's what I'm saying. Obviously people shift their positions. I'm arguing against graphic portrayal as the cause of such shifts.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

68. Understood. But the show is much more than

graphic portrayal. It has some subtleties that themselves
might not have any effect, such as the scenes of dead
Iraqi fighters that I mentioned, but I hope people
will watch and make up their own minds, that's all.
Peace.

[Neshanic]

74. Audience wanted...18 to 27 ain't going to fight no how.

Hillary Xbox screamers also.

Which for the record I think she has no right doing.

[JackRiddler]

80. very crucial point

Many a purported "antiwar" film only appears that way to people who think blood and guts is an argument against war, and is actually little more than a form of violence pornography to those who support war and are all for blood and guts.

[ScamUSA.Com]

57. agreed, personally I thought it was brilliant and disturbing

hardly 'entertainment'

[ThomWV]

59. And Old Vet's Point Of View

I am an old man and my war was another war, not this one. Wars have to be the same in some ways though and soldiers have to be the same in lots of ways. A few decades really doesn't change how people act under fire. My war was the same as today's soldier's war in lots of ways.

The show was very much bullshit. I can forgive that. I understand that they were introducing characters and that had to account for a lot. I understand how cameras have to be used and how the whole thing had to be staged for fit the TV tube. So the bullshit didn't bother me too much.

If I had to describe, in a single word, what I disliked about the show most it would be this: Emote. The show was like a loud spoiled child at an adjoining table in a restaurant. It just did not do a bit of justice to what its like in a firefight - by any troops in any war anywhere anytime.

That was how I saw it. But its a TV show. It is entertainment. As entertainment it was about what I'd expect these days. More violence that I would prefer, passable but uninspired acting, very good special effects. Great camera work. What more could you want?