I LOVE DU-from the archives-WH was notified SEPT. 26- 4 DAYS TO OBSTRUCT!!

[hang a left]

Thread 1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=134589#134878

snippy (1000+ posts) Fri Sep-26-03 04:05 PM
Original message
CNBC just reported that CIA has asked that White House be investigated
for revealing the information on Wilson's wife working for CIA.







Thread 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=135657

rabid_nerd (1000+ posts) Sat Sep-27-03 11:03 AM
Original message
CIA seeks probe of White House (Thread Two)
http://www.msnbc.com/news/937524.asp?0cv=CB10

The CIA has asked the Justice Department to investigate allegations that the White House broke federal laws by revealing the identity of one of its undercover employees in retaliation against the woman’s husband, a former ambassador who publicly criticized President Bush’s since-discredited claim that Iraq had sought weapons-grade uranium from Africa, NBC News has learned.

Continued from over 100 post-thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[IndyOp]

1. PM Will Pitt --

But how in the world could everyone running around yelling "12 HOURS, 12 HOURS" have missed articles posted days earlier?

:kick:

[Nothing Without Hope]

30. Yes, that's one of the questions, isn't it?

Also, why did it take three more days AFTER it was on the public news before Gonzales was told of the DOJ investigation?

The news announcement was Friday night, Sept 26, 2003 - another Friday night dump of embarrassing info for the WH. I srongly suspect that the WH was alerted of the upcoming investigation before that.

The 12-hour gap looks to be a deliberate red herring. Search only there for signs of shredding, and I'm betting you won't find any.

The big question: When was the WH notified of the upcoming DOJ investigation? They certainly knew by the evening of Sept 26, but I'm betting it was considerably earlier.

[IndyOp]

37. Yep, the 12-hour gap looks to be a deliberate red herring.

...so important that they've sent Gonzalez out to wave it around.

Progress is being made toward truth, by the way: Randi Rhodes just mentioned that Keith Olberman is reporting an 84-hour gap.

:woohoo:

[dmr]

2. Excellent! Thank you!

I remember those threads, too!

Good job!

:)

[wtbymark]

3. This should put Gonzales in deeper shit

it's not 18 min of missing audio tape - It's 4 DAYS of he said she said, where's the paper shredder?

Run with it!

[SharonRB]

4. Keith Olbermann talked about the NBC story last night

and that they had 84 hours to obstruct, not 12.

[IndyOp]

10. Good on Keith !

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

We still need to push the story to make sure that it gets lots more coverage...

[understandinglife]

5. Please send to David Swanson, John Bryne, Congressman Conyers, ....

.... Waxman ..... and, if you don't have time, please PM me or post a response to this comment and I'll do it.

Thank you!

WATCH IT; SPREAD IT http://www.bushflash.com/right.html

Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us - How ever long it takes, the day must come when tens of millions of caring individuals peacefully but persistently defy the dictator, deny the corporatists their cash flow, and halt the evil being done in Iraq and in all the other places the Bu$h neoconster regime is destroying civilization and the environment in the name of "America."

[hang a left]

7. Go ahead ul.

Someone also asked upthread to PM Will Pit. Would you mind?

[understandinglife]

8. Consider it done.

Peace.

[understandinglife]

32. CIA letter to Congressman Conyers, January 30, 2004 -- not just 4 days

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4196003&mesg_id=4196003


Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[ewagner]

6. I don't know

if this constitutes a "head's up" because at this point there was no guarantee that DOJ would launch an investigation of any kind....no "probable cause" if you will....

besides, they could have been leaning hard on Ashcroft to deny the investigation. I think the fact that DOJ decieded to proceed was a complete shock to the WH. Except that maybe Ashcroft did a phone call before Gonzolez even knew about it.....

[hang a left]

9. And maybe.....

It was a notification to the WH to prepare.

or the story I like better....

It was a trap

[IndyOp]

11. Why a trap? (nt)

[hang a left]

18. A set-up

to see who did what and who called who.

[Just Me]

13. Ewwww!!! Ya' think,...

,...they were "allowed" the opportunity to engage in a "cover-up" and get caught? Wouldn't that be something!!!! :wow:

[Just Me]

12. Whoah! There's a HUGE difference between 12 hours and 4 days!!!

Who originated the 12 hour lie? I'd really like to know which media source was the first to put out that lie!!! :grr:

[Jackpine Radical]

14. The 12-hour thingie arose from a comment Gonzales himself made

on a TV program about last Friday.

The 84-hour revelation provides a new perspective on Bertie G's comment. Like he was trying to shrink 84 into 12 or something. Who the hell knows?

Edited to add a thought--
What might they have been abloe to do in 84 hours that they couldn't have done in 12? In other words, what might the 12-hour story be covering up?

Can we track down anything of significance that happened during the 3.5 day leadup?

[Nothing Without Hope]

20. If the 12 hour gap is a lie, they could have set it up so that

investigators would search the phone and email logs and find no sign of messages sent from Card or Gonzales to anyone else. In short, they would have set up a red herring to "prove" their "innocence." Meanwhile, they could have talked and emailed all they wanted in the previous 3-1/2 days that would NOT be searched by the investigators.

So if the 4 day gap is the true one, we need to prove it clearly and make EVERYONE see the truth!

[Just Me]

21. Well, there is an appearance of normality with a delay,...

,...from 8pm (end of working day) to 8am (beginning of following work day). Whereas, the notification by the CIA for four days prior to the DOJ's notification to preserve evidence allows for much more suspicion and speculation about the possibility of a cover-up.

The fact that Gonzales made it appear as though the WH didn't see this coming until the last minute increases suspicion. Why would he lead the country to believe the WH didn't see this coming?

[Jackpine Radical]

27. Nicely done. Both you & NWOH make a lot of sense.

The moral is that we need to get the 4-day story out.

[elehhhhna]

15. More proof the WH is full of fuckups! 4 days & Fitz is STILL ON THEIR

ASS!

Years and YEARS they planned their Iraq war and they FUCKED THAT UP TOO!

Months to plant WMD on Saddam--F*CKED UP!

EVERYTHING THEY DO IS TOTALLY FUCKED UP!

[Junkdrawer]

16. The MSNBC link is broken...Common Dreams has it archived...

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0927-01.htm

[hang a left]

17. When I found the threads and went through them I found

that out. Thanks.

[seafan]

19. Here's a working msnbc link: CIA seeks probe of White House

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3372137/

By Alex Johnson with Andrea Mitchell
MSNBC and NBC News
WASHINGTON, Sept. 26, 2003 (FRIDAY)


NBC News’ Andrea Mitchell reported Friday night that the CIA has asked the Justice Department to investigate whether White House officials blew Plame’s cover in retaliation against Wilson.

snip--

The CIA’s doubts about the uranium claim were reported through routine intelligence traffic throughout the government, U.S. intelligence officials said. Those doubts were also reported to the British. The Niger report included a notation that it was unconfirmed when it was published in the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate, the classified summary of intelligence on Iraq’s weapons programs.

The CIA had the Niger claim removed from at least two speeches before they were given: Bush’s October address on the Iraqi threat, and a speech by U.N. Ambassador John Negroponte.

As the State of the Union address was being written, CIA officials protested over how the alleged uranium connection was being portrayed, so the administration changed it to attribute it to the British, who had made the assertion in a Sept. 24 dossier.

[Nothing Without Hope]

24. BETTER DO A SCREEN-SHOT QUICKLY - it will probably be taken down

once they figure out people have spotted the discrepancy with the official story.

[seafan]

26. Done, and printed out hard copy. Others should capture as well.

Let's send this to Senators and Reps, so that they have the rest of this week to talk about it on the Congressional floor.

"And just WHAT was happening in the the White House over the weekend, (not
"just for 12 hours",) armed with early knowledge of the coming investigation by the CIA, and BEFORE the *official notification* by Gonzales that they must preserve all relevant documents. (???)"

The python is clamping around these criminals.

[Nothing Without Hope]

22. Here's yesterday's WaPo article with the timing specified:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/24/AR2005072401058_pf.html
washingtonpost.com

Bush Aide Learned Early of Leaks Probe

By Dafna Linzer?Washington Post Staff Writer?Monday, July 25, 2005; A02
Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales said yesterday that he spoke with White House Chief of Staff Andrew H. Card Jr. immediately after learning that the Justice Department had launched a criminal investigation into the leak of a CIA operative's identity. But Gonzales, who was White House counsel at the time, waited 12 hours before officially notifying the rest of the staff of the inquiry.

(snip)

Gonzales said yesterday on "Fox News Sunday" that he is among the group of top current and former Bush administration officials who have testified to the grand jury about the unmasking of Valerie Plame, a CIA operative. Gonzales, who has recused himself from the case, would not discuss details of his testimony but said he learned about Plame's work from newspaper accounts.

In the New York Times yesterday, columnist Frank Rich cited news reports from 2003 that when Gonzales was notified about the investigation on the evening of Monday, Sept. 29, 2003, he waited 12 hours before telling the White House staff about the inquiry. Official notification to staff is meant to quickly alert anyone who may have pertinent records to make sure they are preserved and safeguarded.

Asked on CBS's "Face the Nation" about the column, Gonzales said the Justice Department had informed his office around 8 p.m. and that White House lawyers said he could wait until the next morning before notifying the staff. He did not say why he called Card.

(snip)

So the 12 hours is just the official time after the Gonzales was called about the investigation. But over 3 days earlier, newspaper accounts said that the CIA had requested the investigation - that gave plenty of time to shred documents before that final 12 hours. In fact, I'm betting they PLANNED it this way - make the calls, get documents shredded, clear the decks BEFORE that phone call came through.

Now the next question: why did it take 3-1/2 days to make that call to Gonzales about securing the documents?

[Nothing Without Hope]

23. why did it take OVER THREE DAYS to make that phone call to Gonzales about

securing the documents? I think this was all a setup from the start.

[Tuesday_Morning]

25. And why 8:30 pm? n/t

[Nothing Without Hope]

28. Exactly - I believe that was to give Gonzales an excuse to wait until

morning, thus setting up the red herring of the guilty-looking 12 hours. I'm betting they did NOT shred during that time. It's the bait and switch - the shredding was all over by then.

Note that the Andrea Mitchell NBC news announcement that the CIA requested the DOJ investigation was made on the evening of Sept 26, 2003 - FRIDAY NIGHT. So this was another Friday night info dump of stuff embarrassing to the Administration. Very suspicious timing - I srongly suspect that insiders called the WH about the upcoming investigation BEFORE the press was alerted, which would mean there were even MORE than the extra three days.

[understandinglife]

33. Yes, see comment # 32 and link.

Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[Nothing Without Hope]

29. I've emailed Keith Olbermann, Brad of BradBlog & Larisa of Raw Story

I'll post at Kos shortly if it hasn't already been done or if hang a left wants to do it him/herself.

I'll also look up Frank Rich's email address at the NYT and send it to him.

[Nothing Without Hope]

31. Here's Frank Rich's contact info at New York Times - we need to let hiim

know. The furore over the 12-hour gap pretty much started with his article.

Frank Rich -- New York Times
Title: Associate Editor; Op-Ed Columnist
Department: Opinion
E-mail: [e-mail]
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Address: 229 W 43rd St, New York, NY 10036-3959

[hang a left]

34. Hi Nothing Without Hope.....

Do whatever you want. I am busy cleaning house. I appreciate it. :hi:

[Nothing Without Hope]

36. OK, will do. Here's the letter I just emailed to Frank Rich at the NYT:

Dear Mr. Rich,

In your excellent article of July 24, "Eight Days In July," you wrote:
"As White House counsel, he was the one first notified that the Justice Department, at the request of the C.I.A., had opened an investigation into the outing of Joseph Wilson's wife. That notification came at 8:30 p.m. on Sept. 29, 2003, but it took Mr. Gonzales 12 more hours to inform the White House staff that it must "preserve all materials" relevant to the investigation."

In fact, the CIA's request that the DOJ initiate an investigation was made public on the evening of September 26, 2003 - three days earlier than the official phone call to Gonzales. It was reported then by Andrea Mitchel on NBC News and can still be seen in this surviving online MSNBC report:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3372137

CIA seeks probe of White House

Agency asks Justice to investigate leak of employee’s identity

EXCLUSIVE
By Alex Johnson with Andrea Mitchell
MSNBC and NBC News

WASHINGTON, Sept. 26, 2003 - The CIA has asked the Justice Department to investigate allegations that the White House broke federal laws by revealing the identity of one of its undercover employees in retaliation against the woman’s husband, a former ambassador who publicly criticized President Bush’s since-discredited claim that Iraq had sought weapons-grade uranium from Africa, NBC News has learned.

(snip)

NBC News’ Andrea Mitchell reported Friday night that the CIA has asked the Justice Department to investigate whether White House officials blew Plame’s cover in retaliation against Wilson. Revealing the identities of covert officials is a violation of two laws, the National Agents’ Identity Act and the Unauthorized Release of Classified Information Act.
(snip)

Note that September 26 that year was on a Friday, so this was the standard Friday night dumping of information that would embarrass the White House. I strongly suspect that an insider phone call was made to the White House before the press was notified.

In this situation, the 12 hour gap may well be a red herring. I would not be at all surprised if an intense investigation of events during those 12 hours did not show any untoward activities - because they would have been completed earlier. A neat way to "prove innocence."

The fact that the gap was from July 26 instead of July 29 was first discovered at Democratic Underground in this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4194532
Thread title: I LOVE DU-from the archives-WH was notified SEPT. 26- 4 DAYS TO OBSTRUCT!
I can't take credit for discovering it, but I am one of the people trying to get the word out.

Please consider including this updated information when you next discuss the Plame investigation. I believe that focussing only on the final 12 hours is a major mistake that would miss what really happened.

And two final rhetorical questions: Why did it take three days from the time of notifying the press to finally make the official phone call to Gonzales? And how long before that press report did the White House know of the coming DOJ investigation?

Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXX

[hang a left]

38. Great letter.

Wouldn't it be steamy if this was on the evening news today or tomorrow?

[Nothing Without Hope]

40. Randi Rhodes has apparently said that Keith Olbermann will cover it

tonight. Can't recall where I saw that, but I'm pretty sure I did.

[Nothing Without Hope]

39. Unfortunately, this email address did not work. Or perhaps fortunately

after all because there's much more to the story. The gap is much more than 3 days:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4196003
Thread title: CIA letter to Rep Conyers; Jan 30 2004 -- White House had 67 days to align

And above all, Conyers' own post on this at the Huffington Post (linked to in the first reply in the other thread):
What About the Ten Week Gap?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/john-conyers/what-about-the-ten-week-g_4723.html

The infamous 12-hour gap is looking more and more like a red herring to draw attention off the real story - the shredding and story alignment would be done by then.

And, from Conyers' entry, look like the Repubs are going to try to destroy the investigation by their own probe of Wilson and of Fitzgerald. We can't let them silence this.

So I'll write a new letter to Frank Rich and try faxing it this time.

[paineinthearse]

41. Great letter, anc contrats to ALL DU'ers who contributed....

Including Skinner, EarlG & especially Elad, who keeps the servers humming and archives tight.

[HR_Pufnstuf]

35. David Corn - Comments on Sept 27, 2003

From:

Time to get ready for the
Karl Rove frog-march?

David Corn
The Nation
July 9, 2005

http://www.pej.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2928&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

"On September 27, 2003 -- after the news broke that the Justice Department, responding to a request from the CIA, was investigating the Plame/CIA leak -- White House press secretary Scott McClellan said of the Plame/CIA leak, "That is not the way this White House operates, and no one would be authorized to do such a thing." He also declared that the allegation that Rove was involved in this leak was "a ridiculous suggestion, and it is simply not true." Days later, Bush issued a straightforward statement about the Plame/CIA leak:

"There are too many leaks of classified information in Washington. If there's leaks out of my administration, I want to know who it is, and if the person has violated the law, the person will be taken care of."