Dean won't win one voter age 65-70

[MIMStigator]

2004 Republican campaign ad:

Mr. Russert: In 1995…you were asked how would you balance the budget…. "The way to balance the budget, Dean said, is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut almost everything else. 'It would be tough but we could do it,' he said." would no longer cut Social Security?

Dr. Dean: But you don't—no. I'm not ever going to cut Social Security benefits.

Mr. Russert: Would you raise retirement age to 70?

Dr. Dean: Social Security, I—the best way to balance Social Security budget right now… is to expand the amount of money that Social Security payroll taxes apply to. It's limited now to something like $80,000. You let that rise. I also would entertain taking the retirement age to 68. It's at 67 now. I would entertain that.

[salin]

1. I hate these threads that KNOW what group will or wont vote for a candidat

My mother (well over 65) and many of her friends (all the same) who have all given money to Dean.

Just like prognocations that progressives and peace folks won't vote for Clark. Two very good friends - different parts of the country, different races - both are BIG Clark fans.

Sometimes I think that we DU pundits ae just full of it.

[ant]

2. why? are the elderly stupid?

So what's wrong with raising the retirement age? There are very good arguments to make in favor of this, and if the elderly are more concerned with getting theirs rather than listening to reason and helping order society so that everyone benefits, well, we're screwed in ways that no politican can fix.

Edited to add that I'm a student, and I depend heavily on federal loans to get by. I would NOT run screaming from a candidate who simply said, "we need to cut education." I would ask why, figure out what his position is, etc. Sometimes we all have to sacrifice a little, you know. Let's not be so fucking selfish all the time.

[MIMStigator]

3. Not stupid but selfish

"So what's wrong with raising the retirement age? There are very good arguments to make in favor of this, and if the elderly are more concerned with getting theirs rather than listening to reason and helping order society so that everyone benefits, well, we're screwed in ways that no politican can fix."

Nothing is wrong with it but elderly vote for their self interest and they vote more than any other group. They won't vote for anyone who touches SS and Medicare even if it means all poor children starve. sad but true.

[ant]

7. c'mon

While I don't doubt there are some selfish elderly people, I think it's a stretch to say ALL of them are. They are still individual people, after all. If I were 70 I would not toss Dean out on this one issue alone.

I understand that many voters - of all ages - vote their self-interests, but I don't think you can generalize about a demographic like that.

Edited for spelling issues...

[MIMStigator]

9. ok not all but they have a poor record for...

looking out for the next generation.

[ant]

15. maybe we have different experiences

Maybe I'm naive...

My parents are in their 50s, and they are very liberal, as are most of their friends. They benefitted greatly from W's tax cuts, but they still hate him. Maybe it's 'cause they've got kids in their 20s starting out on their own that they understand the importance of taking care of the next generation. I have a hard time believing that The Elderly are dominated by selfish minds who don't understand the importance of leaving the world in good condition for their own kids, grandkids, etc.

[ant]

17. besides

Even if the elderly are all this selfish, when faced with a candidate who wants to raise the retirement age vs. one who essentially wants to eliminate social security all together, well, the dems still win. :)

[dorktv]

4. The elderly here in Arizona are selfish and stupid.

They want to not have any of their property taxes go to pay for schools. Reasoning? "We do not have children in the schools, so why should we pay?" They also have communities where anyone under eighteen is BANNED from living and sometimes even visiting.

[MODemocrat]

5. Guess again! There are 12 votes for him within my circle of friends

We are all over 70 years of age.

[dorktv]

6. Neat!

[Cha]

11. And I'm getting up there myself! Dean will do right by retirees....

at least he'll will be working to keep Social Security going!

I heard a caller on c-span this morning say the neocons want the partiot act and such to squelch any uprising that would occur if they do away with Social Security like they want to. :grr:

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

8. I would expand that to 60-100

Or even 55-100. No one even approaching retirement would vote for Dean.

[dorktv]

12. My mom is going to vote for Dean. That is what I want for next

year's Christmas present. Cheap and useful for the country!

[salin]

14. did you read the thread

because I think you just called another duer on this thread a liar. Not as in attacking - but by stating so firmly and absolutely this statement, just after someone of that age has already affirmed that they and their friends are the exception to your absolute statement.

This is obnoxious.

Raise the questions... will this be a problem for Dean... will older voters withhold their vote... different ways of raising the question.

But these absolutes when offered against any candidate are always incorrect and are always obnoxious towards other posters (by denying their existence) who state that they are of that group and are planning on voting for that candidate.

[Wwagsthedog]

22. Using this logic(?)...

...bush or no vote would be preferable, for people over 54, to voting for Dean. Either of those positions is irresponsible and most "elderly" voters understand that.

[Andromeda]

24. You have you're wires crossed...

I'm almost within that age range and I am going to vote for Dean. I'm not on Social Security yet but if Dean becomes president I know I won't have to worry about the solvency of S.S. and Medicare.

Under Bush and the other neo-cons I worry every day about whether Medicare and Social Security will even be there when I retire. This administration would get rid of all entitlement programs if they could.

This whole issue about how Dean is going to raise the retirement age and cut Medicare is a red herring and designed to make Dean look insincere or "Bushlite" and it's a bogus argument. The retirement age has already been raised and Dean's comment was just speculative and it was made some time ago. Dean wants healthcare to be the primary focus when he is elected and he will not leave seniors out in the cold.

Dean proposes that we get rid of the Bush tax cuts and trim other pork to balance the budget. Clinton balanced the budget when he was president and our economy was robust. Dean wants to do the same thing.

[w4rma]

10. This was 7 years ago. Republicans are actively trying to raise the age.

Clinton agreed with Dean in 1995.
Clark probably agreed with Dean in 1995.
Lieberman still agrees with Dean's 1995 statement even though Dean no longer does.
etc. etc.

Lame, flamebait thread.

[Cha]

13. I know...this is really old tired stuff! And I say BFD!

[MIMStigator]

16. 1995 not that long ago especially if you're 65 or older /nt

n/t

[w4rma]

19. 7 years ago Clinton believed this. Should folks not vote Democrat?

Note, Dean no longer believes this.

[poskonig]

18. Given Bush's tax cuts are designed to destroy social security,

and Dean repeatedly makes this point, we're in good shape on this.

[Duder]

20. Really?

[/img}

[Room101]

21. Dean has retracted the possibility of raising the Ret. Age

please keep up to date;) This is old.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. My Dad Did Back Breaking Work And Died At 58....

Not everybody's dad or mom went to college and had a nice office job where you can work to seventy or older....

I don't think shrinking the welfare state is progressive....

If I want to reduce the welfare state I'll vote liberterian because at least they'll stay out of my private life....

[KFC]

25. There goes Florida

Even a hint of messing with SS/retirement age will kill him with seniors. Sure, he'll get a few votes, but he has basically cut his throat in Florida.

[Cha]

31. No he hasn't ...as other DUers have noted this is way old news and

Dean no longer thinks this is a viable solution.

[Wapsie B]

26. Threads like this

are so transparent, they fool no one. Nice try.

[leesa]

27. Those folks are having to work anyway, they can't afford not to.

[fedupwithbush]

28. Not interested in bashing.

Just stating what I think and have read.

I want to retire at 65! I want some quality of life to enjoy. It would be great to just get up and go where I want.

I want them to raise the income level that SS is taxed at. For every penny of income! If someone who made $200,000 or more a year is going to cash their social security check I want them to pay more. Why? Because they probably have always had excellent health care and check-ups. They are going to live longer because of it. Don't like that? Well, I saw a news article that said black people hardly ever realize the total income paid into Social Security. Why? A lot don't have access to good health care. Same with American Indians.

Until we all have equal health care, SS shouldn't exclude the higher incomes from paying. And someone who will barely use any of their Social Security shouldn't be paying in for people who had excellent health care and live to be 90 or older.

Last, should there be a litmus test for income? No. Just because a relative made big bucks during their life time, doesn't mean some of that family will. It evens out folks. Some in my family are rich, some are poor. I don't see anything wrong with thinking like that. My grandfather died at 65. He paid and paid, but didn't collect long. My grandma never worked outside the home (13 children!) and 86 now. She is drawing on what he paid.

I know the Repubs hate this thinking. They tend towards "It's my money and I'm keeping it". But I refuse to believe that it doesn't average out in any given family. Not all the Repugs are rich and not all will live to ever draw SS.

[PAMod]

29. Not only is that a ridiculous statement, but the elderly

will probably be Dean's strongest supporters.

Geez, MIMstigator, that wasn't even a good try.

[einsteins stein]

30. I know for a fact that your thesis is wrong

Because I personally know three or four voters of that age who are committed to the Dean campaign.

But, lets play this game out, ok?

According to the 2000 Census, there are about 34 million folks in your specified age group, which I have simplified as "over 65." Lets say that half of them do not vote (even though seniors are amongst those most likely to vote), this leaves about 17 million voting seniors. Lets say that about 60% them vote Republican (I'm helping the Republicans on his figure, Dems won the Senior vote in 2000), that still leaves about 6 million people, over the age of 65, who will more than likely vote for the Democratic candidate.

Of those 6 million, lets say that 5/6s are above the retirement age anyway (considering most people die before they hit 100 years of age, this is an extremely generous fraction), and don't care. That leaves 1 million Democratic seniors. Pretend that Dean polls only 10% of that million.

That leaves 100,000 seniors, in your specific age group, who are likely to vote, vote Democratic, and will support Howard Dean.

Then, pretend that I've inflated this number by 100%. That means there are still 50,000 voters who contradict your statement, and if 1/2 die before 2004, there are still 25,000 voters for you to deal with.

25,000 voters, to your 1 opinion.

From another angle, that could be interpreted as saying that the odds are 25,000 to 1 against you being correct--on your best day, and only after I fudge the numbers in your favor.

I think that my saying that your thesis is just a little unsupportable shows how far I'm willing to go to avoid being impolite. :-)

[KaraokeKarlton]

32. Oh no? Maybe you ought to read this...

http://aging.senate.gov/oas/hr71hd.htm

Howard Dean doesn't want to routinely sentence the elderly to nursing homes. He wants them to get care at home whenever possible. Sure doesn't sound like an enemy to the elderly to me. Also, there are MANY people in my local meetup in the age group you claim won't support Dean...and they love the man.

[bitchkitty]

33. My mother is 82

and she is voting for Howard Dean.

[bleedingheart]

34. It wouldn't affect those currently on Social Security so your

argument is a bit flawed.

The people this might upset would be the 20-60 or so crowd that might not enjoy being grandfathered into the older rates.

That aside I don't think many people will care... You can always retire early. The fact that you have to wait for social security may or may not be a factor....


My father-in-law retired at 60 and had to wait 5 years to start collecting his SS benefits.. but he had other investment income to live off of...

[2cents]

35. Anybody know...

.....how well he did with that demographic in Vermont?

[SharonAnn]

36. Well, I live in a community of people primarily 65 and older and

most of us LOVE Dean! He expresses the moral conviction and passion that we all feel.