Freeperish comment on war in paper: How would you respond?

[prolesunited]

"Soldiers who have looked into the grateful eyes of a now-free Iraqi citizen will tell you that this war is worth it. Many of America’s best and bravest will risk everything and volunteer for a second tour of duty. With that said, how can anyone still doubt the worth and nobility of this war?"

[Bluzmann57]

1. If this character is so convinced about war being "worth it"

then why doesn't he or she 1-go over there and/or 2- ask soldiers who are there? My guess is that neither is an option for the letter writer.

[BiggJawn]

19. Oh, they already serve in the "Fightin' 101st Keyboarders"

AKA "The Screaming Chickenhawks"...

[kiki]

2. I'd try and find some figures...

...on all these supposed voluntary re-enlistments. Given the trouble they're having getting people to enlist in the first place, I'm willing to bet the numbers don't look as good as this completely unsubstantiated comment suggests.

[endarkenment]

3. Somewhere between 100,000 - 150,000 Iraqis killed

I really doubt that the average response of the Iraqis to our soldiers is adoration.

[brainshrub]

4. Until that Freeper has enrolled in the military, he should STFU.

Chicken-hawks. Every last one of them.

[H2O Man]

5. Possibly by saying that

"Citizens who have looked into the eyes of the children, spouses, siblings, and parents of soldiers who died can tell you that these families were betrayed. The Bush administration said that we needed to invade Iraq because of the threat posed by their WMD programs. As it turned out, not only did Iraq not have WMD programs, but the administration knowingly lied to the American public. With that said, how can anyone still doubt that this administration is as criminal as was Nixon's?"

[RiffRandell]

6. The original reason for going to war

was about "weapons of mass destruction" not freeing the Iraqi people from a brutal dictator.....the repukes used that reason later. I always say how I find it amazing that repukes act like they give 2 shits about the Iraqi people (Saddam was a brutal dictator, blah blah blah) yet they don't give two shits about the less fortunate in the United States.

[Squatch]

7. LOL

"Soldiers who have looked into the grateful eyes of a now-free Iraqi citizen will tell you that this war is worth it."

Not any of the soldiers I know...including myself.

I have not met a single Iraq war vet that has this war was "worth it"...

This dude is delusional. Typical stay-at-home patriot.

[punpirate]

8. Nobility?

A war fought on bald-faced lies is not noble. It's just another necessary lie promoted by the neo-cons. This man is a dupe of the right wing--a useful idiot--who can't think for himself. Tell him so.

[smoogatz]

9. They said the same shit about Vietnam.

This exact bit of bullshit propaganda, along with the utterly discredited domino theory, is what got 58,000 Americans and 3,000,000 Southeast Asians killed for precisely nothing.

[3days]

10. Tell them about this

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/pressingissues_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000978858

Mr. Yost's contention that 14 of Iraq's 18 provinces are stable is pure fantasy. On his visit to Baghdhad, he can check that by chatting with our resident British security consultant, who every day receives a province-by-province breakdown of the roadside bombs, ambushes, assassinations and other violence throughout the country.

If Baghdad is too far for Mr. Yost to travel (and I don't blame him, given the treacherous airport road to reach our fortress-like hotel), why not just head to Oklahoma? There, he can meet my former Iraqi translator, Ban Adil, and her young son. They're rebuilding their lives under political asylum after insurgents in Baghdad followed Ban's family home one night and gunned down her 4-year-old daughter, her husband and her elderly mother in law.

Freshly painted schools and a new desalination plant might add up to "mission accomplished" for some people. Too bad Ban's daughter never got to enjoy those fruits of her liberation.

[GalleryGod]

11. That's Why the Suicide and Self-Inflicted wounds are so high, Eh?

:puke: Beyond contempt:argh:

[kikiek]

12. I wonder how many tours he has served. Anyways this war isn't about

freeing Iraq. We were under a direct it could happen anytime nuclear threat. We weren't waiting until the mushroom cloud appeared to get Saddam's WMD's from him. He allowed the IAEA in. Inspectors were telling us there weren't any WMD's. So we invaded anyways. Well we had to because soon there wouldn't be a reason to anymore. We haven't the funds or the military to free all people in this world who are under a crazy man's regime. Iraq has been freed to become the training ground for terrorists from all around the world. They are blowing up its citizens daily. They can't leave their homes, they don't have clean water, they don't have electricity. Somehow I don't think that is gratitude they're seeing in their eyes. Of course as arrogant as we are we are sure it is.

[CoffeeCat]

13. That's a nice, sugary, Hallmark-card type statement...

...too bad it's utter bullshit.

Let's dissect these sappy lie-saturated sentences. Careful now, everyone--you might just get a cavity or two--wading through all of this sweet, sugary rhetoric.

"Soldiers who have looked into the grateful eyes of a now-free Iraqi citizen will tell you that this war is worth it."

How many Iraqis are "grateful"? We know that there were NO suicide bombers in Iraq prior to the invasion. Now, the country is infested with them. These "grateful" people are blowing up the place. Obviously the ungrateful, far out number the "grateful".

"Many of America’s best and bravest will risk everything and volunteer for a second tour of duty."

Military recruitment numbers are at an all-time low. Many doing a "second tour of duty" are doing so unwillingly--because they are required. Yes, out soldiers are brave and they are risking everything. However--to position soldiers in the National Guard and Reserve as enthusiastic and excited about a second tour--is pretty far fetched. Many are defecting and the number of those trying to get out of serving in Iraq--based on religious grounds--is higher than ever.

With that said, how can anyone still doubt the worth and nobility of this war?"

There is nothing "worthy" or "noble" about our brave soldiers who are sent to walk the plank for this administrations' warmongering games. These soldiers are dying for lies--for an administration who views them as objects in their sick game. Wake up.

Quit interjecting lofty sentiment and flowery rhetoric onto a ill-planned, failing war that was based on horrendous lies.

[Taxloss]

14. It's so sad that this willingness to serve is being squandered

on an immoral and illegal war. The loyalty of those troops is to be commended, as it throws in sharp contrast the way they have been sold out by their own Commander in Chief. Did Bush even volunteer for a first tour of duty?

[sshan2525]

15. Ah, yes, those lucky now free Iraqi kids............

Free to play among the burned out wreckage of cars and buildings.
Free to wander the streets to look for the bodies of friends and family killed by suicide bombers.
Free to hope that the car approaching them is not loaded with explosives.
Free to drink the water that is so polluted that hepatitis is often the result of thirst.
Free to enjoy the few hours a day that the electricity works.
Free to hope that their parents, if they’re still alive, can get a job in a market with a 30% unemployment rate.
Free to wonder why gas is impossible to get in one of the largest oil producing countries on earth.
Free to guess when that smiling soldier is going to be called home for political reasons and the country descends into endless civil war.

[prolesunited]

16. Lots of great responses here

Thanks for the input! Any more suggestions?

[spindoctor]

17. Tens of thousands of dead Iraqi citizens can't be wrong.

And 1,800 US soldiers who have looked into the hate-filled eyes of Iraqis who just don't want them there will nevervolunteerfor anything anymore.

Assuming that this person has not had the honor to volunteer for anything him/herself, he/she would do better to stick to facts. I have yet to meet the first soldier telling me this war is worth it.

[Lecky]

18. It's disturbing that so many people still try to justify this war

Do they really think that the we invaded Iraq for altruistic reasons? The truth is really hard for some people to swallow.

Now that I've said that, I believe that our country should pay back the Iraqi's who have suffered because of our actions in some way. I don't mean by our current occupation we need something constructive, in the end it is going to be up to the Iraqi's to build their gov't. We need to do our best to make things right without intervening on their autonomy, it's obvious we are currently on the wrong path.

The neocon agenda IS A FAILURE.

[LynnTheDem]

20. I'd show him what the IRAQIS think of his bullshit. Then hand him

enlistment forms so he too can go fight & die for his bush-god's bullshit.

Kurdish leader shuns US move to oust Saddam
http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/story/0,7369,739916,00.html

Independent Iraqis Oppose Bush's War
http://www.guardian.co.uk/antiwar/story/0,12809,907780,00.html

March-April 2004: 57 percent, "leave immediately"; 36 percent, "stay longer". (Gallup)

June 2004: 41 percent, "immediate withdrawal"; 45 percent, withdrawal after election of a permanent government; 10 percent, 2 years or longer. (Independent Institute for Administration and Civil Society/CPA).

June 2004: 53 percent say leave now or "within a few months" or "until an Interim Government is in place" or "in six months to a year"; 33.5 percent allow "more than one year" or "until permanent government is in place"; 13.6 percent, even longer if necessary. (Oxford Research International)

January 2005: 82 percent of Sunni Arabs and 69 percent of Shiites favor US withdrawal either immediately or after an elected government is in place. (Zogby)

February 2004: 56.3 percent of Iraqis somewhat or strongly oppose the presence of Coalition forces in Iraq. "Strongly oppose" versus "strongly support" is 2.5-to-1. (Oxford Research International)

March-April 2004: 58 percent say US forces have behaved very or fairly badly; 34 percent say US forces have behaved very or fairly well. The ratio between those saying "very bad" and those saying "very well": 3-to-1. (Gallup/CNN/USA Today)

March-April 2004: Majority Iraqis say attacks on US forces justified; 30 percent say that attacks on US forces were somewhat or completely justified; another 22 percent said they were sometimes justified. (Gallup/CNN/USA Today)

May 2004: 87 percent express little or no confidence in US coalition forces; 92 percent view coalition forces as occupiers, rather than liberators or peace keepers. (Independent Institute for Administration and Civil Society/CPA)

June 2004: 67 percent of Iraqis strongly or somewhat oppose the presence of Coalition troops; 30 percent support. (Iraq Centre for Research & Strategic Studies)

June 2004: 58 percent of Iraqis somewhat or strongly oppose the presence of Coalition forces in Iraq. Strongly oppose versus strongly support is 3-to-1. (Oxford Research International)

June 2004: 70 percent say Coalition troops are an occupying or exploiting force; 30 percent say a liberating or peacekeeping force. (Oxford Research International)

June 2004: Majority of Iraqis say invasion was wrong;
Invasion of Iraq was absolutely right say 13.2 percent; somewhat right, 27.6 percent; somewhat wrong, 25.7 percent; absolutely wrong, 33.5 percent. (Oxford Research International)

March-April 2004: 46 percent say the US invasion has done more harm than good; 33 percent say more good. (Gallup)

March-April 2004: 42 percent say Iraq is better off today than before the invasion, 39 percent say worse, 17 percent say the same. (Gallup)

August 2004: Majority Iraqis say situation same or worse than under Hussein; 46 percent of Iraqis say their situation has improved since the fall of Hussein, 31 percent say it has grown worse, and 21 percent say it is unchanged. (International Republican Institute)

57% said the coalition should "leave immediately"
Among respondents in Shi'ite and Sunni Arab areas-- that is, leaving out Kurdish respondents--the numbers favoring an immediate pullout were even higher: 61% to 30% among Shi'ites and 65% to 27% among Sunnis.

In Baghdad, where U.S. forces are concentrated, the numbers were highest of all: 75% favored an immediate pullout, with only 21% opposed.
http://baltimorechronicle.com/060304Media.html

Iraq Center for Research and Strategic Studies, which is partly funded by the State Department and has coordinated its work with the Coalition Provisional Authority, more than half of all Iraqis-- including the Kurds-- want an immediate withdrawal of US forces...
http://baltimorechronicle.com/060304Media.html

The first survey of Iraqis sponsored by the U.S. Coalition Provisional Authority after the Abu Ghraib prison scandal shows that most say they would feel safer if Coalition forces left immediately, without even waiting for elections scheduled for next year.

55% of Iraqis say they would feel safer if Coalition forces departed right away.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5217874/site/newsweek /

2005:

"Every major poll shows an ever-larger majority of Iraqis want the Americans to leave."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6857145/site/newsweek /


Referances:

Press Release, Survey Finds Deep Divisions in Iraq; Sunni Arabs Overwhelmingly Reject Sunday Elections; Majority of Sunnis, Shiites Favor U.S. Withdrawal, New Abu Dhabi TV - Zogby Poll Reveals (Utica, NY: Zogby International, 28 January 2005), available at: http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=957

International Republican Institute polls: Survey of Iraqi Public Opinion, September 24 - October 4, 2004 (Washington DC: International Republican Institute, October 2004), available at: http://www.iri.org/pub.asp?id=7676767887 ;Survey of Iraqi Public Opinion, July 24 - August 2, 2004 (Washington DC: International Republican Institute, August 2004), available at: http://www.iri.org/pub.asp?id=7676767885

Oxford Research International polls: National Survey of Iraq, February 2004 (Oxford, UK: Oxford Research International); National Survey of Iraq, June 2004 (Oxford, UK: Oxford Research International); both available at: http://www.oxfordresearch.com/publications.html

Independent Institute for Administration and Civil Society/CPA poll: Public Opinion in Iraq: First Poll Following Abu Ghraib Revelations 14-23 May 2004 (Baghdad: CPA, May 2004), available at: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5217741/site/newsweek /

Gallup poll conducted with USA Today and CNN: Cesar G. Soriano and Steven Komarow, "Poll: Iraqis out of patience," USA Today, 28 April 2004; "Key findings: Nationwide survey of 3,500 Iraqis," USA Today, 28 April 2004, available at:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-28-gall...

Also see: Richard Burkholder, Gallup Poll of Iraq: Liberated, Occupied, or in Limbo? (Princeton, NJ: Gallop Organization, 28 April 2004).

Juan Cole, "Spinning Iraqi Opinion at Taxpayer Expense," Antiwar.com, 25 October 2004, available at: http://www.antiwar.com/cole/?articleid=3843

Robin Wright, "Religious Leaders Ahead in Iraq Poll; U.S.-Supported Government Is Losing Ground, Washington Post, 22 October 2004, p. 1;

Mark Turner, "80% of Iraqis want coalition troops out," Financial Times, 7 July 2004;

Michael Hirsh, "Grim Numbers," Newsweek, 16 June 2004;

John Lemke, "Poll: Security, unemployment major problems, UPI, 25 May 2004.

"Opinion Polls in Iraq," Iraqanalysis.org, http://www.iraqanalysis.org/info/55

Iraq Index: Tracking Reconstruction and Security in Post-Saddam Iraq (Washington DC: Brookings Institution), section on public opinion polls; available at: http://www.brookings.edu/iraqindex

Frederick Barton and Bathsheba Crocker, project directors, Progress or Peril? Measuring Iraq's Reconstruction (Washington DC: CSIS, September 2004), available at: http://www.csis.org/features/0410_progressperil.pdf

2003

YouGov poll in Iraq, July 2003;

-Three in four of Baghdad residents say the city is now more dangerous than when Saddam Hussein was in power.

-32 per cent say that everyday life is better now than it was a year ago. Twice as many say it is either just as bad (16 per cent) or actually worse (47 per cent).

-71% want power handed over within 12 months

-56% want US troops to remain for at least 12 months

-Believed reason for bush's war; “to secure oil supplies” (47 per cent) and “to help Israel” (41 per cent). Just 23 per cent said US aim was “to liberate the people of Iraq”, while 7 per cent said “to protect Kuwait”.

The formal reason for going to war, “to find and destroy weapons of mass destruction” came last. Just 6 per cent think this was America’s and Britain’s main motive.

Iraqis Do Not Trust Americans, Says Poll

-Asked if the US and UK should help make sure a fair government is set up in Iraq, or should the Iraqis work this out themselves, 31.5 per cent wanted help while 58.5 per cent did not.

-Some 38.2 per cent agreed that democracy could work well in Iraq, while 50.2 per cent agreed with the statement that "democracy is a western way of doing things and it will not work here".

-Asked whether in the next five years the US would "help" Iraq, 35.3 per cent said yes while 50 per cent said the US would "hurt" Iraq. Asked the same of the UN, the figures were almost reversed, with 50.2 per cent saying it would help and 18.5 per cent the opposite.

-Reguarding US and British troops, some 31 per cent wanted them to leave in six months and a total of 65.5 per cent in a year. Some 25 per cent said they should stay two years or more.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0911-01.htm

[CBHagman]

21. Freedom is not facing suicide bombings.

The Bush administration basically created a situation where Iraqi citizens and many others will be put at risk each day. What's the good of opening a new sewage treatment plant or school if the grand opening is targeted by a suicide bomber? (Yes, that has happened. Now there's hesitation to announce events of that sort.)

The Bush administration didn't seal the borders of Iraq, didn't protect the various institutions (cultural, government, medical), didn't consider all the competing groups, didn't build enough alliances, and certainly didn't consider the long-term possibilities of their actions. I know the press is mad keen on describing the Bush administration as disciplined, but that's a crock. They get what they want in the short term, but they don't have successes. There's a huge difference.

[insane_cratic_gal]

22. I can do better then that

"Soldiers who have looked into the grateful eyes of a now-free Iraqi citizen will tell you that this war is worth it"


Lets try this on for size.

Anyone looking into the eyes of A child who has lost a parent due to conflict in Iraq. A war waged on lies, will you ask them if it was worth it? When will we remember they not volunteering for this war, they are unable to get out due to stop loss. You ask the 20 Years old celebrating his last 3 birthdays in Iraq on 3 different tours, who didn't make it past his 24th birthday. How can anyone say they support the troops, while they allow them to be abused by this Administration. It should be America's worse shame.

[johnaries]

23. Have him read this blog from Operation Truth.

I used tiny url to make a shorter link:
http://tinyurl.com/agcsq

Seeing the truth
I was deployed days before the war began and was one of the first to push into Iraq and take Baghdad. On the plane ride into Kuwait, the Marines spoke of the reasoning behind te war we were headed to fight. Sadly, no one really knew why we were going and the reasons we may sacrifice our lives for. All we knew was that we were there to fight and hoped that the reasons were justified...

...I remember watching the inital aerial attacks on Baghdad as my fellow Marines and I cheered and sang "Bombs over Baghdad." As I look back, I am horified by this memory. To think that I celebrated and cheered while innocent people were brutally attacked and killed sickens me. We have in no way helped these people. While under Saddam's control they at least knew what to expect...they knew who to fear and how to avoid death. But now innocent people are dying every day. We are destroying that country and have no justifiable reasons to do so. A friend of mine once shared a horrific story with me. One that will haunt him until the day he dies. One night he was on a security post and was ordered to shoot at a bus that ignored warning shots and failed to stop. He and his fellow Marines unloaded on the bus, killing everyone inside. As he entered this bullet ridden bus he was horrified to realize it was a bus filled with children. Some 20 children shot and killed because he was obeying orders. How in the hell is that heroic?

much more in his blog. Many more blogs from Iraq at site.