I will never support Hillary for the nomination in 2008

[ButterflyBlood]

No way I ever will someone who does crap like this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/14/hillary_clinton_gta/

Her and Lieberman need to shut up about this and let the conservatives whine about this crap, there are way more important things to be concerned about. The young demographic would be way more receptive to the Democrats if they left our movies, music and video games alone.

[lvx35]

1. Yeah, I just posted on this

here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1930478&mesg_id=1930996
And I stand by it. She has isolated us.

[CWebster]

2. Here is what bothers me about it

It seems like the appropriate outlet for the "little lady" to address values. Leave the big hardball issues to the boys.

[wakfs]

3. More "wisdom" from Democratic leaders

Hillary and Leiberdisappointment (one of my senators, sad to say) are both trying to address the Democrats' failure to win red-state votes. THAT'S what this is about. They are going about the wrong way in my opinion. It all sounds like more political bs.

Hillary will try to do what Bubba did - appear as a progressive moderate, strong on defense, strong in the war on terra, strong in the culture wars.

THAT said, I would not be surprised to see Hillary (in some miraculous twist of fate) win the White House in '08 and return to her true colors - a flaming feminist liberal, which is fine with me.

[CWebster]

7. Oh, look there is that myth again:

http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2002/10/21/tomo/index.html

[Malingerer]

4. I totally agree...

Our government needs to focus on important issues like poverty in our country, foreign wars, and other IMPORTANT issues. Rather than pointless feel good legislation 'for the children'. Hillary doesn't have the capability to lead a nation.

[lancdem]

17. This is hardly the only issue she's focusing on

She can chew gum and walk at the same time. A few days ago, she supported Kerry's call for Bush to fire Rove. Obviously, IF she ever runs for president, her agenda will deal with big issues.

[CWebster]

19. Oh, she "supported Kerry's call", did she?

What a good girl.

[SaveElmer]

5. This is how she is gonna win...

It's the same thing as Bill criticizing Sister Soulja, or Tipper advocating labeling of records. Who cares if she criticizes these people? She isn't advocting censorship, just saying there is material on there that is not advertised, and wasn't contained in the warning. Probably would have gotten an AO instead of M rating had it been known. So she gets to criticize "pornographers," isn't advocating censorship, and burnishes her moderate credentials without really taking any action other than tongue lashing them. Seems like good politics to me!

[ButterflyBlood]

8. This and the record labeling is nothing like Sister Soulja

Sister Soulja made a very stupid and racist comment. By attacking it Bill was able to distance himself from the "looney left" without turning off very many people, if anyone.

On the other hand, this crap and the record labeling turns off everyone who likes these games and that music.

[SaveElmer]

10. Didn't keep Bill and AL from getting elected did it?

How much did Tipper's record labeling campaign hurt her or Als standing...not at all.

This will get Hillary more votes than it loses her...

Course the whole thing is on the margin and will be forgotten in a week or two, but I suspect there will be more of these things. Appearing sympathetic to moderate views on these cultural issues without abandoning core principles, which will slowly change people's views of her as a liberal.

[ButterflyBlood]

12. But Tipper wasn't the candidate

I really have to disagree this will gain more votes than lose them. The only people that really dig this crap are die hard fundie types who will never vote for any Democrat, much less Hillary.

[SaveElmer]

14. Untrue...

This is gonna appeal to all the middle class moderate soccer moms who have to work, and find it hard to regulate what their kids are exposed to. The fact is, the game did not contain a warning about the sexual content which should have been disclosed.

The fundies would want the whole thing banned...not Hillary's position at all.

[papau]

13. I agree :-)

:-)

[dbonds]

20. But she went off half cocked without all the info.

To get to that 'content' you had to download a MOD for the game that enabled some hooks already in the game and gave them nude skins for characters. Also, why would anyone complain about sex in a game that has thousands of dead bodies around that died violently. I am not advocating anything about censoring the violence here, just saying that is not the priorities I would vote for.

[SaveElmer]

27. Still should have been disclosed, or removed from the code...

It was obviously accessible...

Also, she is concerned with the violence...her statement in part:

“I am announcing these measures today because I believe that the ability of our children to access pornographic and outrageously violent material on video games rated for adults is spiraling out of control.”


You are missing the larger point however, while it is very likely she is bothered by this content, the larger point is to position herself for the election.

Good politics!

[CWebster]

30. Such a lady-like concern for the violence

while the real world bodies stack up.

Yeah, she is really grappling with the big issues of the hour.

[SaveElmer]

32. Did you vote for Kerry?

Just askin!

[CWebster]

33. Yes

Don't remind me.

[justinsb]

6. I agree

The dems need to look to people with something new to say, progressive Dems from the black caucus, and people like Kucinich, Dean and Obama. Provide an alternative and stop being 'republican lite' otherwise nothing will be accomplished by putting them in power even if they do win.

[NorCalDem]

9. If she is really that concerned with our children...

tell her to advocate increased funding for public schools, and the hiring of more teachers to prevent over-crowded classrooms. My mother would appreciate the help, and so would her pupils.

Until then Hillary, Shut the F**k up about problems with video games, no one cares except for Dobson and his Family Values cronies, and guess what, they're not on our side.

[mmonk]

11. Sometimes, politicians engage in "weathervaning"

[evirus]

15. the thing is

people made the GTA modification which enabled the sexual content, rockstar desided to cancel the minigame and simply disable it through code instead of removing the code compleatly from the game. but the real thing is THE GAME IS ALREADY RATED M WHICH HAS AN AGE RANGE OF ABOVE 17

[Southsideirish]

16. Never in a million years would I vote for that quasi-republicreep.

[firefox]

25. She lost me on drug warrior n/t

[dbonds]

18. I'm with you there.

Hillary would not get my support either. There are things I admire about her, but she is too 'bought' and political for our country's needs. No more DLC, No more Skull and Bones, No more Corporate puppets.

[SaveElmer]

21. Proves she knows how to play the game...

This is how Republicans win...Bill Clinton is the only Democrat who has been able to beat them at their own game...Hillary is now utilizing the same strategy that got us our one and only Democratic President in the last 25 years.

She is not for censorship! She is playing the political game that has proven successfull for Republicans for 5 of the last 7 elections.

I'm bettin it will work!!!

[CWebster]

26. True, it has been proven successful for Republicans...

[geek tragedy]

22. There are more important issues to me than video games.

Not a make or break issue either way.

[SaveElmer]

23. That's the point...

It's about positioning herself for the election. She wants to moderate her image. She isn't advocating any specific policy other than increasing fines on manufacturers that don't follow the ratings guidelines, just mainly tongue lashing the game makers for not disclosing this content.

It's this kind of political posturing that worked for Bill and that the Repukes are expert at. I for one am glad we have someone who can beat them at their own game.

[geek tragedy]

24. I agree. I can't fathom vowing to oppose someone over a trivial

issue like this.

[CWebster]

29. Especially when all those big issues go unaddressed

or addressed according to the Republican worldview. After all, it HAS been so successful for the Republicans. Would you listen to yourselves.

[SaveElmer]

64. They are not unaddressed...they just aren't to your liking..

Here is Hillary's position on the war...from a couple months ago...

Now this may not be your view...but to say this is the current Republican view is ridiculous!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/21/iraq.hillary/

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. Not for nomination or election.

I'm not all that churned up by the vidio games flap, but her vote for the war, her "embracing pro-lifers", her statement about the "failed insurgency", her calling for more troops, her support of the occupation, and all the other right wing crap she extols.

[SaveElmer]

36. She hasn't "embraced" pro-lifers...

She has not changed her position on choice, she simply is choosing to emphasize the areas where there may be commonality. There are very few who are pro-choice who believe abortions are a good thing. At the very least they are traumatic for the woman. It benefits everyone to prevent them if possible. There are plenty of anti-choice people who are more concerned about reducing abortions than in scoring political points (ala Randall Terry). Advocating contraception, counseling and other methods, without trampling on a womans rights to get an abortion if they need one is a place where both sides can work together.

[CWebster]

39. She is spinning it

with a moral underpinning which actually serves to weaken womens'rights by casting it as "tragic" or other loaded language.

[SaveElmer]

40. That's not spin...it's the truth

I have friends who have undergone the procedure and found it to be a wrenching experience. Of course everyone is different, and for some it may not be, but to say that having an abortion is a "good" thing is ridiculous. Sometimes it is a necessary thing.

To suggest she is trying to weaken women's rights is ridiculous on the face. SHe has been a lifelong advocate of a woman's right to choose!

[CWebster]

48. as an escort at an abortion clinic

I can tell you, from vast experience, that most women are relieved.

Sorry to shatter your illusions, but it is not a tragedy for the women who undergo the medical procedure- only for those who would impose the judgement on the women's decision.

[SaveElmer]

50. Of course they are relieved....

And I too have taken many for the procedure. They are relieved that they have the right to get it, and that they can end the pregnancy. But I have not run across one who would say it is a good experience they would wish to repeat.

I agree that the last thing a woman going for an abortion needs is to be judged by others. Hillary did not do that. Her concern is for women.

[CWebster]

53. Neither is going to the dentist.

I wouldn't frame it as "tragic". Now a woman forced to bear and then be condemned as the bringer of all the world's ills as the evil welfare mother--now that is tragic.

[SaveElmer]

56. You are right...

No woman should be forced to carry a child to term that they do not want. That certainly is not Hillary's position. But, all women do not view abortion the same way. Most are relieved, some feel enormous guilt, but none view it as good (at least those that I know).

Are you saying that reducing the number of abortions through education and birth control is a bad thing?

And really, to compare an abortion, which after all is an invasive surgical procedure (all the more to make sure it is legal and available) to going to the dentist is a little ridiculous.

[CWebster]

60. Are you a woman? nt

[SaveElmer]

61. Nope...

Do I need to be to have an opinion on the topic?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

45. So, where's the "common ground"? And, what about the other issues?

I don't see all that many pro-preggers who advocate contraception, sex-education, or allowing abortion on demand.

She's playing politics on all these issues.

[SaveElmer]

47. Not the ones in front of the camera...

But I would daresay that most anti-choice people are not against contraception efforts, in fact I know many. It is lamentable that the extremists get the TV time, but that is the way our modern media works.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

54. And, the other issues?

[dbonds]

58. No, many anti-abortion people are actually anti-sex before marriage.

They think all these women are just fooling around, partying, and they shouldn't be doing that. The pregnancy would be (in thier mind) gods wakeup call. The ability to get an abortion is an easy way out and allows them to continue partying. Some do also believe that the 1 day old fetus is a life (by the same token that god put it there as a wake up call). Contraception is also defeating the purpose to them. It allows the sex and partying to continue.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

31. I swore when she voted for the war (I'm a NYer) that I would Never vote

for her again.

[BamaLefty]

35. That's Real Smart

then we can have total corporate Repub control? :shrug:

[SaveElmer]

38. Did you vote for Kerry?...nt

[CWebster]

43. What is this?

A test?

[SaveElmer]

44. I just find it interesting...

That those that rail against Hillary for her vote on the war, nevertheless managed to vote for Kerry who did the same thing.

[CWebster]

51. ABB, pal

Not like there was much choice. And he was a lousy candidate that ran a pitiful campaign against the worst, most criminal administration in these times. And he lost (or for those who insist, he won by a hair when it should've been a landslide).

[SaveElmer]

52. So are you saying you would vote for Hillary if she were nominated?

And I agree that he ran a lousy campaign, but it wasn't his war vote that cost him the election.

[CWebster]

55. No

Pretty much stretched to the limit by now.

[SaveElmer]

57. Well I'm sure Ralph Nader will be running again!!!

Have at it...it is a Democracy after all!!!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

62. Yes, I did and that is only because he did publically regret voting

for authorization, whereas, Hillary still hasn't.

[SaveElmer]

63. Well that is a better reason to oppose her than this video game thing...

However the difference in hers and Kerry's positions now is not great. She won't say she regretted the vote, but neither she nor Kerry has advocated withdrawl, and both routinely lambast Bush for the conduct of the war.

Here are her comments on the situation...this is probably where mnost of the country is...and where she needs to be on this issue if she is going to run for Prez (which I hope she does)

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/21/iraq.hillary/

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

65. No, there weren't too much of a difference. I had supported Dean in

the beginning and really wished when pulling the lever, that I was voting for him and not Kerry.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Right you are. And, she still supports it.

So did one of my senators (Cantwell) and she can sing for my (and, my wife's) vote in '06.

[derby378]

34. Hillary lost me when she refused to support Barbara Boxer

When it was time to call the question on the Ohio voting machines, Barbara stepped up to the plate, but Hillary backed away. Not very smart - now Boxer is practically treated as a folk hero by the grass-roots gang.

[sandnsea]

37. Agreed, there are other "moral values" issues

I think pollsters just don't get the difference between what people say and what they do. There is certainly a cultural problem with violence and alot of people find some of these video games disgusting, but that's not the same as supporting censorship. If they want a moral values issue, how about helping unwed fathers become involved parents or change the child molestation and sexual offender laws so they work better. Things that the vast majority of people actually care about. This is the biggest problem with the Dem leadership, their 'hot button issues' alienate more people than they bring in.

[sadiesworld]

42. You'll refuse to support her because of THIS?!

Jeez Louise, I can think of about a dozen reasons not to support her, but THIS?!

This is just one of those DU posts that I should ignore. When will I learn...

:freak:

[dbonds]

46. Can't speak of OP, but I decided long before this.

I would much rather have a Barbra Boxer, or someone I thought had the best interest of people and not business in mind.

[JHBowden]

49. As long as you support the Dem candidate for president,

it's all good.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

59. That depends on the candidate. Doesn't it?

Seeing as how Hillary and Kerry seem to be about the only ones being mentioned...I'll be voting Green if either get it.