Did Rove commit Treason?

[Francine Frensky]

I'm wondering why none of the news articles mention the word treason...because it seems to me what Rove did was compromise national security by revealing secret info for political gain.

This whole issue is too complex for joe six-pack to digest, but the word "treason" is a short way to explain what he did, atleast to my understanding.

For anyone who's been following this closely, is treason a word that can be used?

[ck4829]

1. Is Bush an idiot?

[GeekMonkey]

2. Is the Pope Catholic?

[Kokonoe]

3. YES

[Deja Q]

4. Am I a desperately seeking homosexual with poor blood circulation?

(in my hands and feet, mind you... probably diabetes, but w00t!!!!!!!!!!! :rofl: )

[quiet.american]

5. If Rove were a Democrat, that's all we'd be hearing, n/t

[Beaver Tail]

6. Does a Bear shit in the woods?

[bowens43]

7. There is a very specific definition of treason in the Constitution

this isn't it. Did he commit a felony? Yes. Treason? It's doubtful.


Article III ; Section III

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

[Francine Frensky]

17. OK, that seems to fit:

Rove gave aid to the terrorists by revealing the name of an undercover agent.

Seems like that would be helpful to the terrorists, to know what fake cia company she worked for and what her name was and what she looks like....

Two witnesses needed: well, at least three reporters were contacted, just need to get them to talk.

[bowens43]

19. Sorry, won't fly in a court of law.

it would be real stretch to get anyone to take that seriously.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

34. Believe it or not

There is a legal definition of that word "enemies," at least in the context of treason; it refers specifically to sovereign nations in a time of war. This is one of the reasons cited why Jane Fonda never faced a treason charge, because war had never been declared against NV.

[Cicero]

20. Not even certain he committed a crime

At least, that's how it will be worked. Plame would have to be considered a "covert agent" (if thats the correct term) in order for it to be a crime for her to be revealed. You know they'll come up with some way to say she wasn't a "covert" agent.

Later,

[FormerRepublican]

21. Technically, what he's guilty of is...

...espionage. Espionage is "the practice of obtaining secrets (spying) from rivals or enemies for military, political, or economic advantage. It is usually thought of as part of an organized effort (i.e., governmental or corporate)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage

In this case, Rove was committing espionage for the Bush Administration against the interests of the United States.

A little complicated, but it fits.

But the penalties still range up to and including death, so I doubt he should feel very comfortable if Fitzgerald is really serious.

[Carolab]

31. Same net effect.

Spying against your own nation is still treason.

[damntexdem]

22. ... on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act ...

The prosecutor needs both Cooper and Miller.

Is it aid and comfort? Hell, one could argue that many of Rove's political activities over the years constitute 'levying war' against the U.S.

[bowens43]

27. One could argue the same thing

concerning the anti-war movement....

How loose do we want to get with the definition of treason?

[doublethink]

8. Repeat after me IT'S NOT POLITICAL IT'S TREASON.

eom.

[leftofthedial]

9. pretty much nonstop for as long as he has been a public figure

[DURHAM D]

10. Everytime a Dem gets a mic in their face they need to say

"Rove, and perhaps others in the Bush White House, appear to have committed treason." They need to repeat the same sentence three times. No matter what they are asked - say it again. That is the only way to bridge the canyon to middle America.

I watched TV this am waiting to see if the money we are finally paying to consultants that are supposed to help Dems craft a message are earning their pay. So far I would say a big fat no.

The Dems seem to be passively standing by and just watching the circus. Where is our indignation? Why aren't we taking the moral high ground? Why can't we seize the moment? Fumble, fumble, fumble, again.

[longship]

23. This needs to be in its own thread.

This is precisely what needs to happen. I especially like your very careful wording of the statement. It's perfect. Post this in its own thread and I'll support it.

[shelley806]

29. I agree; this should have its own thread...but perhaps espionage

should be emphasized rather than treason, which I was inclined to support until I read the actual definition posted on this thread.

[HereSince1628]

11. Here is what the US Constitution has to say about treason

U.S. Constitution - Article 3 Section 3
Article 3 - The Judicial Branch
Section 3 - Treason
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

[Francine Frensky]

14. What does "shall work Corruption of Blood"

and the rest of that last sentence mean??

Thanks for the quick definition, btw

[HereSince1628]

16. Here you go from English Law...

CORRUPTION OF BLOOD - English Crim. Law. The incapacity to inherit, or pass an inheritance, in consequence of an attainder to which the party has been subject

[Geoff R. Casavant]

35. In other words

The sins of the father are not visited upon the sons. You can still inherit from your dad, even if he's a traitor.

[MN ChimpH8R]

12. Is the Space Pope reptilian? nt

[Sparkman]

13. The nearly useless MSM can't even SPELL oil, let alone TREASON?

At least that's what it appears, since the terms' absence has been the SILENT SCREAM of our era!!! The biggest of lies, like "cigarettes don't kill, unless you inhale daily", in Big Tobacco Inc. Only the innane haven't embraced these truths, that we on the left have been screaming since BEFORE the Mar '03 invasion and the lies to divert and censure the truths. Time to SCREW the CLUB OF DENIAL, the Republican sycophants and the well connected war profiteers!

[wtbymark]

15. While at War......

The dissemination of an intelligence officer is an act of treason

[Number9Dream]

18. And can prosecutor Fitzgerald be trusted...

to go after Rove and the gang with everything he's got? Guess we'll see...

[Zorbuddha]

32. I think so. Have a look at this:

The Prosecutor Never Rests
Whether Probing a Leak or Trying Terrorists, Patrick Fitzgerald Is Relentless
By Peter Slevin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, February 2, 2005; Page C01

<snip>


The Untouchable

Fitzgerald frequently makes crime-fighting headlines in Chicago, where he took over the U.S. attorney's office just 10 days before 9/11. What's surprising is that he got the job at all. A New Yorker born and bred, Fitzgerald knew hardly a soul in Chicago, which was precisely the idea. Sen. Peter Fitzgerald (no relation) was looking for an outsider to battle the state's notoriously corrupt political apparatus.

The recently retired Illinois Republican tells a story about back in Al Capone's day, when Col. Robert McCormick, the imperious publisher of the Chicago Tribune, called FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover and demanded that he send someone to Chicago who could not be bought.

Hoover sent the untouchable Eliot Ness.

Now, as then, the U.S. attorney's job has the gloss of patronage. The late Chicago mayor Richard J. Daley used to say the U.S. attorney in Chicago is one of the three most important people in the state, and Peter Fitzgerald said he wanted "someone who couldn't be influenced either to prosecute someone unfairly or protect someone from being prosecuted unjustly."

<snip>

President Richard Nixon kept an enemies list and waged an epic fight over the publication of the Pentagon Papers, settling only when the Supreme Court backed the right of The Washington Post and New York Times to publish. Not a few presidents have tried, usually fruitlessly, to identify leakers and punish the reporters all too glad to publish those leaks.

But Fitzgerald has ignored the old saw about arguing with someone who buys ink by the barrel. In both the Plame case and an unrelated terrorism investigation, he is trying to force Times reporters to reveal their confidential sources, a quinella not attempted in modern memory.

"In all his cases, Pat keeps the blinders on and goes forward to where the facts lead him," says David Kelley, the acting U.S. attorney in New York and former head of the Justice Department's 9/11 Task Force. "He is not influenced by anything except by those things that ought to influence him. I wouldn't call it zeal. I would call it courage."

<snip>

<snip>

"I thought, 'He is the original Untouchable,' " Peter Fitzgerald says. "You could just see it in his eyes that he was a straight shooter. There were no levers that anyone had over him. He had no desire to become a partner in a private law firm. He has no interest in electoral politics. He wanted to be a prosecutor."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A55560-2005Feb1?language=printer

[Moderator]

37. Zorbuddha

Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
copyrighted news source.


Thank you.

DU Moderator

[Zorbuddha]

39. sorry

I should've cut the three middle paragraphs out. But, I've run out of time.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. I doubt it. If "endangering national security" is the charge.

The whole of the CIA could be charged with multiple offenses of "endangering national security". Unless you think that their long list of crimes didn't.

The same goes for a long, very long, list of politicians who have entangled the nation in wars, "incursions", and other forms of endangerment that have landed this country in the mess it's now in.

[DiverDave]

25. Yes

book em Danno

[Generic Other]

26. Is the penalty the firing squad?

Then "yes." Rove committed treason.

[Walt Starr]

28. Rhetorically? YES! Legally? NO!

The standards for rhetorically committing treason were lowered years ago by the right during the Clinton administration. Rhetorically, Rove is absolutely a treasonous bastard.

He'll never face charges of treason, though.

[shelley806]

30. How about espionage? nt

[tritsofme]

33. Treason is the only crime described in the Constitution

I don't see how the standards could be changed without a constitutional amendment...

[Walt Starr]

36. Legally, yes, rhetorically, treason is whatever public perception says

is treason.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Does the sun rise every morning?

[rustydog]

40. Does shit stink?