Plame: Continuing What Shraby Started

[Me.]

The conversation continues on a subject that DUers have been keeping their eye(s) on for over a year. The endgame is in sight but not yet here. How long will it take? Will Cooper's testimony give Fitz what he needs to go forward, will Judy's silence stymy him? We'll see, but at least for now the game is afoot.

Link to the previous Plame thread which includes the fascinating year long study into L'affaire Plame:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3988991#4045305

[shraby]

1. There were some real eye-openers in that study.

There is another one we did called Sibel Edmonds Speaks Farsi that had some interesting revelations also.

[Me.]

3. RP Is, I Believe, On The Farsi Trail

also, he posted in the other thread a link to an article by Davis Corn. The interesting thing about this to me is that it was Corn, via an article he wrote, who informed Rove that outing a NOC was a crime. In this article, a year later, he again makes some interesting points.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?bid=3&pid=4924

[robertpaulsen]

59. Hi everyone, just checking in.

Great to see this thread still going strong. I brought all my old messy research notes from last year along with me today, so hopefully I will be able to go farther down the Farsi trail, and perhaps get more info on what B.S.A. Tahir was doing with Halliburton subsidiary Baroid in Malaysia.

For now, here's more from David Corn:

As Judith Miller of The New York Times sits in jail for refusing to reveal a source to Patrick Fitzgerald, the special prosecutor investigating the Bush administration leak that identified CIA officer Valerie Wilson (nee Plame), the question remains, why is Robert Novak, the conservative columnist who published the original leak, enjoying his freedom?

Not that Novak should be a target for prosecution. Under U.S. law—particularly the Intelligence Identities Protection Act—only U.S. government officials who intentionally disclose the identity of an American intelligence official are fair game for a prosecutor. The journalist to whom they leak cannot be prosecuted. This is a good thing. We do not want reporters being tossed into the hoosegow for publishing secrets obtained from the government. England has an official secrets act; we former colonists do not. (I wish more people understood the legal distinction between Novak's leakers and Novak. I receive loads of e-mails from people who indignantly ask why Fitzgerald hasn't charged Novak with a crime.) But the issue is this: While other reporters have resolved to be imprisoned to protect their sources—whether these sources deserve protection or not—what has Novak done? The obvious answer: He has squealed.

To be fair, we don't know for sure. Novak has declined to answer any questions about the investigation and his interactions with Fitzgerald. But here are two pretty solid assumptions.

Fitzgerald wants to know the name of the two unidentified Bush "senior administration officials" Novak cited in his July 14, 2003, column that outed Valerie Wilson, the wife of former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, a White House critic. That's the whole point of his investigation.
Fitzgerald at some point must have asked Novak to name names. After all, he requested that Matt Cooper of Time and Miller reveal their sources. (Cooper narrowly avoided going to prison on Wednesday when his source—Karl Rove?—gave him permission to testify before Fitzgerald's grand jury. Previously, Time magazine turned over his notes and e-mails to Fitzgerald. )
Fitzgerald has not slapped Novak with a subpoena. Thus, Novak in some manner, shape or form cooperated with Fitzgerald. Otherwise, he would be in the same—or similar—legal quicksand as Miller.

more...

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20050707/novak_squealed.php

[Me.]

60. What Do You Have On Hannah?

Anything?

[robertpaulsen]

61. No. That's a good idea.

I remember for a long time everyone thought the two White House sources would be Hannah and Libby. But I just jumped from them to the big dog Cheney. I think it's a good idea to look at those two underlings more in depth to see their shadier connections.

Thanks Me.

[atre]

68. I'm not so sure about that

"Not that Novak should be a target for prosecution. Under U.S. law—particularly the Intelligence Identities Protection Act—only U.S. government officials who intentionally disclose the identity of an American intelligence official are fair game for a prosecutor."

What many of these analysts seem to be missing is the possibility of a conspiracy or aiding and abetting charge for Novak. I think it may be possible that the reason he isn't being challenged to divulge his sources is that Fitz has credible information that may make Novak susceptible to a federal criminal charge.

[robertpaulsen]

69. I don't think Novak's in the clear either, or he'd be crowing about it.

I also think it's possible that Novak might be brought up on a perjury charge. Perhaps he did squeal, but didn't tell the whole truth, and Fitzgerald is trying to use Cooper and Miller testimony to confirm his lie. But since Novak isn't talking, it's all speculation.

Here's more from David Corn:

Time To Frog-March Rove?

Corn worked over the weekend to share his thoughts on the meaning of the evidence revealed through Matt Cooper's e-mails. The content of those e-mails is explained in the new Newsweek story, Matt Cooper's Source. Corn believes what Karl Rove told Cooper could implicate Rove in the legal investigation. But at the very least, Corn argues, it turns up the political heat on Bush's adviser. The gory details from David Corn's blog follow:

I don't usually log on Saturday evenings. But I've received information too good not to share immediately. It was only yesterday that I was bemoaning the probability that--after a week of apparent Rove-related revelations--it might be a while before any more news emerged about the Plame/CIA leak. Yet tonight I received this as-solid-as-it-gets tip: on Sunday Newsweek is posting a story that nails Rove. The newsmagazine has obtained documentary evidence that Rove was indeed a key source for Time magazine's Matt Cooper and that Rove--prior to the publication of the Bob Novak column that first publicly disclosed Valerie Wilson/Plame as a CIA official--told Cooper that former Ambassador Joseph Wilson's wife apparently worked at the CIA and was involved in Joseph Wilson's now-controversial trip to Niger.

To be clear, this new evidence does not necessarily mean slammer-time for Rove. Under the relevant law, it's only a crime for a government official to identify a covert intelligence official if the government official knows the intelligence officer is under cover, and this documentary evidence, I'm told, does not address this particular point. But this new evidence does show that Rove--despite his lawyers claim that Rove "did not tell any reporter that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA"--did reveal to Cooper in a deep-background conversation that Wilson's wife was in the CIA. No wonder special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald pursued Cooper so fiercely. And Fitzgerald must have been delighted when Time magazine--over Cooper's objection--surrendered Cooper's emails and notes, which, according to a previous Newsweek posting by Michael Isikoff, named Rove as Cooper's source. In court on Wednesday, Fitzgerald said that following his receipt of Cooper's emails and notes "it is clear to us we need testimony perhaps more so than in the past." This was a clue that Fitzgerald had scored big when he obtained the Cooper material.

This new evidence could place Rove in serious political, if not legal, jeopardy (or, at least it should). If what I am told is true, this is proof that the Bush White House was using any information it could gather on Joseph Wilson--even classified information related to national security--to pursue a vendetta against Wilson, a White House critic. Even if it turns out Rove did not break the law regarding the naming of intelligence officials, this new disclosure could prove Rove guilty of leaking a national security secret to a reporter for political ends. What would George W. Bush do about that?

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20050711/time_to_frogmarch_rove.php

[robertpaulsen]

70. Here's a more complete link.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0710-24.htm

[robertpaulsen]

63. Not exactly the Farsi trail, but a serpentine link connecting Khan & WTC.

Fellow DUer flyarm pointed out something I had not previously considered. A lot of the research into A.Q. Khan's network uncovered a lot of dirty shenanigans in Malaysia by Khan's financial officer B.S.A. Tahir. What I didn't look into was that most of the steel from the remains of the WTC was shipped to Malaysia after 9/11.

So what company was responsible for this?

I found the answer - Megasteel:

Megasteel Sdn. Bhd., a subsidiary of the Lion Group - one of Malaysia's largest conglomerates, refused to talk to The Associated Press on the record about the World Trade Center scrap at its plant, or to answer written questions.
"We do not want any undue publicity," Lion spokeswoman Quah Lee Cheng said.
Company executives and government officials confirmed, on condition of anonymity, that Megasteel took delivery last month of a 35,000-ton shipment of scrap metal that included some World Trade Center steel.

more...

http://pgoh.free.fr/wtc_steel.html

So, I wondered, is there anyone working for Lion Group connected with Khan's nuclear Walmart? I think we have a candidate - Tan Sri Asmat:

Directors' Profiles

As at 1st October 2004

Tan Sri Datuk Asmat bin Kamaludin
YBhg Tan Sri Datuk Asmat, 61 a Malaysian, is an Independent Non-Executive Director and the Chairman of Scomi. He was appointed to the Board on 3rd March 2003. YBhg Tan Sri Datuk Asmat holds a Bachelor of Arts in Economics from the University of Malaya, and also holds a Diploma in European Economic Integration from the University of Amsterdam. YBhg Tan Sri Datuk Asmat has vast experience in various capacities in the public service and his last position was as the Secretary-General of the Ministry of International Trade and Industry, a position he had held from 1992 to 2001. He has served as Economic Counsellor for Malaysia in Brussels and has worked with several international bodies such as ASEAN, World Trade Organisation and the Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation, representing Malaysia in relevant negotiations and agreements.

Tan Sri Asmat has also been actively involved in several national organisations such as Permodalan Nasional Berhad, Johor Corporation, the Small and Medium Scale Industries Corporation (SMIDEC) and the Malaysia External Trade Development Co-operation (MATRADE) while in the Malaysian Government service. Other Malaysian public companies in which he is a director are UMW Holdings Berhad, YTL Cement Berhad, Permodalan Nasional Bhd, Malaysian Pacific Industries Bhd, Carlsberg Brewery Malaysia Bhd, Commerce Asset-Holding Bhd, Lion Industries Corporation Bhd, Symphony House Berhad, Matsushita Electric Company (Malaysia) Berhad and Trans-Asia Shipping Corporation Bhd. YBhg Tan Sri Datuk Asmat is a member of, and chairs both the Remuneration Committee and Nomination Committee of the Board.

more...

http://www.scomigroup.com.my/publish/Director_profiles.shtml


So here's the serpentine link as I see it: A.Q. Khan's financial officer B.S.A. Tahir laundered money through Scomi. One of Scomi's directors is Tan Sri Asmat, who is also a director of Lion Group, which is responsible for but refuses to talk about melting down scrap metal from the remains of the World Trade Center.

Again: Khan-Tahir-Scomi-Lion Group-WTC.

The key to the Scomi-Lion Group connection is Tan Sri Asmat.

Anyone have any more avenues to explore on this trail? I find it all very interesting. :)

[Me.]

65. That Bit About The Scrap Metal From WTC

gave me a tingle up my spine.

[H2O Man]

2. I think that Fitzgerald

is going to bring the shamrock down from the mountain, so to speak, and teach the American public about its three leaves: Plame, the neocon spy scandal, and the forged documents.

[halobeam]

4. from your lips..

[Goldmund]

9. Out of curiosity

when do you think he'll issue indictments?

[Me.]

13. There's Been A Rumor Floating Around

That Rove will be indicted next week. Don't know if Fitz has what he needs and more importantly, can he do it without Miller's testimony?

[kestrel91316]

5. Dare we hope?

Treason/conspiracy indictments against the whole WH crowd??

[H2O Man]

6. There will not be

charges of treason. There will be conspiracy charges.

[KharmaTrain]

7. More Like Perjury Or Contempt

While the statue Fitzgerald started working with is quite specific, this affair is sufficiently vague enough that there won't be any "treason" charge that could ever be brought. The burden of proof is too high to nab Rove or any of this cabal.

However, as you state, conspiracy is one avenue...and I think we can agree Fitzgerald isn't going after who leaked Plame as much as the cover-up that prevented him from finding out. As always, it's not the crime that casts the biggest net, it's the cover-up.

The question I have is how thorough will Fitzgerald be. Will he opt for perjury...where the standard is lower (as are the penalties) and stand a better chance to convict a Rove or others, or hold out for something bigger and risk losing based on a higher standard.

These articles are fascinating reading. Thank-you for reposting them.

[shraby]

8. Someone mentioned on a thread that

Fitz is looking to find 2 sources of the person who leaked Plame's name. The statute that needs 2 sources is the one covering treason.

[orleans]

10. oooh. really?

no wonder he wants ole judy to speak up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Yep that was me

the only statue that requires it is treason... and that one is in the Constitution and we can all thank King George III for it...

[H2O Man]

12. Actually it isn't two sources per leak.

That would be impossible, for example, in Novak's case. There were two senior White House officials talking with Novak. Thus, you can't have two sources to confirm who spoke to Novak -- unless you count the two leakers, which simply isn't the case.

In fact, the crime of leaking does not depend upon the person who receives the information publishing it. Thus, leaking it to Pincus was just as much a potential crime as leaking it to Novak. There are at least six journalists who it may have been illegally leaked to. That would be six counts .... and that is why Fitzgerald is attempting to nail down the number of leaks.

There is no chance of treason being included as a charge in this case. While the charges being considered are indeed serious (there is a good thread quoting Nora O'Donnell on the reaction of every judge who has viewed the evidence!) there is simply zero chance of treason being considered as a charge.

[lonestarnot]

15. Isn't this too damn bad! Nothing to stop us from calling him what he is!

It's called trial by public!


www.freewayblogger.com

[coeur_de_lion]

16. I looked for the Nora O'Donnell thread and could not find what

you were referring to in your thread -- maybe I'm just too tired to think straight. Can you tell me who started the thread and I'll look that way?

[H2O Man]

21. Maybe.

But the thread you searched hairy as a dog for before you sought a good bite's sleep was not the correct one. Look at the other one, titled "Norah O'Donnell: "The judges who ....." or something like that.

[coeur_de_lion]

22. okay I'll have to look for it again.

So I understand we came under attack from freepers last night? Care to tell me about that H?

A thread that you and I were posting on completely disappeared. I have never see that happen on DU before.

[coeur_de_lion]

23. okay I flipping give up. the thread is not there

I tried two different spellings of (Nora, Norah) and got bupkus. I see her mentioned but nothing specific to what you were talking about.

Can you link me the thread please? Or did it disappear along with other threads?

[Me.]

24. GDP?

I seem to remember a thread about Norah O'Donnell that said "this is huge".

[H2O Man]

25. Gosh.

It's on DU:GD. It is by "understanding life." The title/heading is "O'Donnell: 'All the judges who have seen the prosecutor's secret evidence.'" It is on the fist page, or on occasion on page two.

[coeur_de_lion]

31. Thank you, Me. and H2O, I did have a look at that thread

I think I've read most of it before, the new info was about Judge Tatel. Very good information.

[Me.]

26. Here You Go Arby

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4041542

[H2O Man]

27. thanks. n/t

[coeur_de_lion]

30. what I was looking for was

a specific reference to the reaction of the various judges when they looked at the evidence for Judy Miller. I didn't find it.

[TacticalPeek]

35. Perhaps another O'Donnell - Larry

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4041542

O'Donnell: "All the judges who have seen the prosecutor’s secret evidence


... firmly believe he is pursuing a very serious crime, and they have done everything they can to help him get an indictment."

<clip>

In February, Circuit Judge David Tatel joined his colleagues’ order to Cooper and Miller despite his own, very lonely finding that indeed there is a federal privilege for reporters that can shield them from being compelled to testify to grand juries and give up sources. He based his finding on Rule 501 of the Federal Rules of Evidence, which authorizes federal courts to develop new privileges “in the light of reason and experience.” Tatel actually found that reason and experience “support recognition of a privilege for reporters’ confidential sources.” But Tatel still ordered Cooper and Miller to testify because he found that the privilege had to give way to “the gravity of the suspected crime.”

Judge Tatel’s opinion has eight blank pages in the middle of it where he discusses the secret information the prosecutor has supplied only to the judges to convince them that the testimony he is demanding is worth sending reporters to jail to get. The gravity of the suspected crime is presumably very well developed in those redacted pages. Later, Tatel refers to “aving carefully scrutinized voluminous classified filings.”

Some of us have theorized that the prosecutor may have given up the leak case in favor of a perjury case, but Tatel still refers to it simply as a case “which involves the alleged exposure of a covert agent.” Tatel wrote a 41-page opinion in which he seemed eager to make new law -- a federal reporters’ shield law -- but in the end, he couldn’t bring himself to do it in this particular case. In his final paragraph, he says he “might have” let Cooper and Miller off the hook “were the leak at issue in this case less harmful to national security.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/lawrence-odonnell/the-one-very-good-reason-_3769.html

[coeur_de_lion]

39. YUP! That's the one! Thank you, TP.

Judge Tatel initially supported the right of the reporters to keep their sources confidential. Then he read the "redacted" pages and supported Fitgerald's finding that the crime was serious enough to warrant sending the reporters to jail to get their information.

Judy isn't magnanimously "falling on the sword" as some would like us to think. Whatever information she has, whoever her source is, Tatel saw it,reversed his opinion and supported the other judges' findings.

My question now is, how long will they wait before they give up on her and continue to prosecute the case? I mean is this disingenuous b**** going to drag things out so that justice is delayed another several months? H2O, what do you think?

[jsamuel]

14. thats what i have been saying, CONSPIRACY

there is no way to even try to denigh that one...

[pgh_dem]

17. News on this case has been (i guess rightly) overshadowed by London.

Do you know has Cooper testified already? Is there some procedure between him agreeing to testify, in fact declaring that he is prepared to testify, and the actual testimony/questioning?

Will we hear anything about it, or not until any indictments come out?

ps I brought up a point on another Plame thread that Cooper's source, while getting him out of jail, actually confirmed Cooper's status on the shitheap of journalism...instead of declaring himself the source in public, he gave Cooper 'express' permission to out him to the grand jury. If he'd gone public, Cooper's rep as a journalist (such as it is) would still be intact. So he really didn't do Cooper much of a favor.

Question is: Did Cooper's source do so because he had some reason to believe the GJ transcripts might be sealed, or that the leaker may remain unindicted, and appear only in the '8 blank pages' section of any records?

[Me.]

18. Great Article About "Fitzy" Posted In GDP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1913856

[seemslikeadream]

19. New info here I think

Thanks everyone

But what about all the speculation that this could unravel something a little higher up? It looks like the White House is seeking some heavy duty cover; namely Jim Sharp. The link, also via Come And Take It, has some exceprts from FindLaw and RawStory explaining the implications of Bush seeking outside counsel and elaborating on Jim Sharp's expertise in covering up GOP "accidents", including his involvement in representing some big players in Iran-Contra.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1914104

[Me.]

20. Interesting

The more info the better. Here's the link to the Sharp story:

http://prairieweather.typepad.com/big_blue_stem/2005/07/down_memory_lan.html

[coeur_de_lion]

33. and good news, I think. Thanks for the post, SLAD! n/t

[H2O Man]

34. Jim Sharp

is one of the good old boys.

[Me.]

36. So How Do You Think This Will Play Out Now?

Does Fitz have enough to go forward or does he has to wait to the end of the Judy business? Conspiracy you say? Who?

[coeur_de_lion]

32. Good article our Fitz does seem to get more interesting

the more we read about him. Bless his heart. Dirty socks in his desk drawers.

[Me.]

28. Gathering...

There are a lot of threads on DU with interesting articles related to Plame. Have gathered a few together:

Rove:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4049495

Rove:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1612460

Plame:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1914375

[Me.]

29. "How a Bad Source Can Get Principled Protection:"

<<<snip>>>
“It turned out her sources, including the since-discredited Ahmad Chalabi, were duping her and others at the Times and within the Bush administration. The newspaper has acknowledged as much on its front page, and this week Miller did, too.”cont…

“Now she is in jail because of the bad acts of a source within the Bush administration who, like Chalabi, was working the pro-war propaganda machine.” Cont…

<<<snip>>>
“The U.S. Supreme Court left him no choice, he said, because it ruled more than three decades ago that the First Amendment guarantee of a free press doesn't shield journalists from having to identify confidential sources in criminal cases.

Grand juries have the right to ``every man's evidence,'' the only constitutional exception being the right against self- incrimination, the Supreme Court said.” Cont…

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000039&cid=woolner&sid=ap8DDzkSy0nc

[seemslikeadream]

37. Question Has Fitzgerald talked to Gannon?

He must be aware of Gannon's remarks about Plame and all his visits to the White House. Do you think that Fitzgerald would leave that stone unturned? Maybe Gannon's attitude comes from be guarded as a material witness.

[Me.]

38. Good Question

for which I don't have the answer, though it would seen natural if there was a guy going around saying he was on the receiving end of the leak they'd at least haul him in and see if that was so, or if he was, in fact, just a big, fat liar.

[Me.]

40. Deja Vu Judy

“The scenario sounds somehow familiar: in support of a somewhat loopy Republican president's campaign against an Arab dictator, Judith Miller was willing to plant official US disinformation in the New York Times.

The year was 1986.

Nine years into her tenure at the New York Times, she participated in John Poindexter's disinformation campaign against Libya for the Reagan administration. As Bob Woodward later revealed in the Washington Post, Miller planted Poindexter's propaganda in her own writings: claiming that el-Khadaffi was being betrayed from within his own country, that he had sunk into depression, and had turned to drugs. Miller went on to claim Khadaffi had tried to have sex with her, but lost interest when she claimed Jewish heritage.

Khadaffi, you'll remember, was the 80's Saddam Hussein (back when Saddam Hussein was still cool). Muammar was Reagan's "Mad Dog of the Middle East," which is kinda weird when you consider that Libya is in North Africa. As you'll see at the bottom of this article, there was no event on earth that Republicans would not attach to his name for the sake of justifying what they wanted to do in the region anyway. He was our blame-sink at that time. Other Muslims have since taken his place. It's all still the same game, and Judith has been playing it since the days of skinny ties and perms.

And so now, with the First Amendment drama playing out, a quick review of the material that's been building up on this woman for the last two years on the blogsphere reveals a much longer but very consistent career. Judith Miller has been and probably still is an informal asset not of our government but of an American political faction. From North Africa to the Mesopotamian, she has provided copy to support imperial adventures. Perhaps she thinks her powerful patrons will protect her, perhaps she knows too much, or perhaps she's just too old to start over and simply needs to protect her accustomed sources. Her access to them is what's made an otherwise utterly undistinguished career. If it weren't for her usefulness as a propaganda outlet, over three decades, she'd have no content at all.” Cont…


http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2005/7/8/161638/4256

[seemslikeadream]

41. Judith Miller HAS named sources in the past

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4054279

[Me.]

42. See She Can Talk

Oh, right, principles are getting in her way. Though why they should stop her now, when they never have before, is more than puzzling and leads us all to the obvious conclusion and confirmation of the fact that there's something hinky going on here.

[coeur_de_lion]

43. She's getting a payoff for her "silence" trust me

This lady doesn't do anything unless there is something in it for her. So she either likes the publicity or she's getting actual cash, a promotion, some payoff. Otherwise she would be singing her heart out.

Where is The H today? You would think he would be around here somewhere.

[Me.]

44. Inquiring Minds Want To Know

A day off? Buying a bow tie?

[coeur_de_lion]

45. Maybe gearing up for another insightful essay on Plame?

Sharpening his lawnmower blades or his sword? Or even his pen? Walking the dog? Remodeling his kitchen? Gardening, maybe?

Reading some scholarly tome on constitutional law?

Maybe he decided to go visit poor Judy in jail. Bring her some nice brownies or clean underwear. Offer her pointers on how to testify in front of a Grand Jury. Hold her hand. Wring her neck. Whatever.

[H2O Man]

46. I think we are all waiting

to hear where the grand jury goes from here.

[Me.]

47. Subject: Rove/P&C," (for personal and confidential)

<<<snip>>>
"Spoke to Rove on double super secret background for about two mins before he went on vacation..." Cooper proceeded to spell out some guidance on a story that was beginning to roil Washington. He finished, "please don't source this to ove or even WH " and suggested another reporter check with the CIA.”cont…


“Also take note: To constitute a violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, a disclosure by a government official must have been deliberate, the person doing it must have known that the CIA officer was a covert agent, and he or she must have known that "the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent's intelligence relationship to the United States.”cont…

“Karl Rove may not be in legal trouble, but there's no question this will get very interesting soon.”

http://www.nationalledger.com/scribe/archives/2005/07/karl_rove_and_t.shtml

[Me.]

48. Hannah Not Bolton?

Hannah has been out of our conversations for a while with our focus on the more personally offensive Bolton. But we all know Hannah had the opportunity and the where-with-all to be one of the two sources along with Libby who we long ago put the finger on. This article at KOS points the finger at Hannah. We know it's possible. Him more than Bolton do ya think?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/10/42259/4958

[H2O Man]

49. It's a circle.

Hannah was, of course, responsible for not taking those "16 words" back out of the State of the Union speech after Bolton had been putting them in. He played a significant role. If you want to have fun, try finding out any significant information on Hannah He is a secretive fellow. It is almost impossible to be at the level he is and to be this secretive. Older DUers will recall that early on the Plame Threads, we discussed those who are barely visible, but who are in control. Octafish often provides the best information on these fellows. Hannah is one. He is the puppeteer who pulls Rice's strings.

[Me.]

56. Background?

How does Hannah get to boss around the second wife? Where does his authority come from, Cheney? And also, while I'm thinking about it what role does Andy Card play in all of this? He's never mentioned, yet as chief of staff, he must be in the mix somewhere...

[Tellurian]

50. Hi, Y'all..

merh has surreptitiously made sure I've heard the good news.

Bravo!

A Frank Rich op ed piece suddenly appeared today in my Sunday newspaper (on page 2, mind you). His article is most definitely educating the public to the distinct inference, we have another Watergate situation on our hands within the Bush Administration.

He goes on to say, regarding the disclosure of Valerie Plame's secret identity as a covert CIA operative from a BA higher up, as retaliation for her husband, Joe Wilson's public disclosure. He reiterates Wilson's assertion, Bush lied to the American people and Congress in his SOU Address in an effort to add credibility to his call for WAR and the lawful invasion of Iraq.

Also writing, whatever happened to Fitzgerald's investigation?

"Now 18 more months have passed, and no one knows what crime Fitzgerald is investigating. Is it the tricky-to-prosecute outing of Wilson's wife, the story Judy Miller never even wrote about? Or has Fitzgerald moved on to perjury and the obstruction of justice possibly committed by those who tried to hide their roles in that outing?

If so, it would mean the Bush administration was too arrogant to heed the most basic lesson of Watergate: the cover-up is worse than the crime."

Frank Rich

[Me.]

51. Welcome Back!

If you use the link in the Op, you'll find another link (in that thread) which will lead to one of the threads you started last year on this subject.

John Dean thinks it's the conspiracy that will get them:
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20050520.html

As for Hannah, there was a time a year ago when I looked everywhere to find info on him and what I found wasn't even Worth creating a Link for.

[Tellurian]

53. Thanks, Me..

and from your link..that btw, everyone should read, if they have the chance:

"Could the Supreme Court Become Complicit In Bush Administration Misdeeds?

Though few believe the Supreme Court will rule for the reporters, as Hoyle note, the High Court might place the case "on its docket, which conceivably could push the resolution into 2006." It would take only four Justices' votes to do so."

To me, the foretelling of the reality of this future event, would give cause to SDO'C's sudden, unexpected retirement announcement.

The poor woman would yet again be scapegoated into casting a deciding vote one way or another. I think she's had enough of prostituting herself for the never-ending corruption inherent in this White House.

[Me.]

55. It Wouldn't Be The First Time

the SC was complicit, 2000 being the first "overt" time they gave junior what the law shouldn't have allowed.

[coeur_de_lion]

52. GREAT to see you, Tellurian

Glad you are back!

:hi:

[Tellurian]

54. great to see you as well, Lion Heart!

:), :hi:

[coeur_de_lion]

57. Good to see old friends

I think that Judy continues to be the monkey wrench in the works. Fitzgerald must need her testimony to tie it all up, and she won't do it. Wants her 15 minutes of fame.

It has been pretty cool to see the same faces as one year ago. Now I think the Plame reunion is complete. No more fighting and back-biting like we had one year ago. The unpleasant element is gone and now we just enjoy healthy discussions of the case.

Anyway, I've been asking after you, requested that Merh round you up so I'm glad you are back. Been an interesting couple of weeks. It was enough to bring me back to DU after a months-long absence.

[coeur_de_lion]

58. dupe

[coeur_de_lion]

62. Link for the Frank Rich article Telurian mentioned

July 10, 2005
We're Not in Watergate Anymore
By FRANK RICH

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/10/opinion/10rich.html?th=&emc=th&pagewanted=print

[robertpaulsen]

64. Wow! I can't believe I missed this article before.

This article is an absolute treasure chest of names and connections regarding Pakistani nuclear proliferation. Khan, Tahir, Asmat, Barlow, Ibrahim, BCCI. This link covers a lot of territory:

Nuclear Blackmarket and Pakistan

It is no less important to know the story of Richard M. Barlow, a CIA career officer whose brief was to monitor Pakistan’s nuclear programme. In 1987, he discovered that US firms were not only involved in selling Pakistan dual-use equipment and materials, the government was not really keen on letting the US Congress know about the true picture. When he protested, he was forced to resign. He later joined as an analyst with the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy from where too he had to resign under pressure after he raised strong objections to the administration’s continued support to Pakistan’s nuclear purchases in the US.

However, fearing exposure, the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC) quietly began employing nuclear traders and agents to buy materials and equipment otherwise banned by the US and international conventions. For instance, PAEC bought a tritium purification and production facility with a capacity to produce 10g of tritium daily in 1987 from a West German firm, NTG Nukleartechnik GmbH. Tritium can be used to produce a thermonuclear device. The deal was struck with the help of a known nuclear trader, Alfred Hempel. Interestingly, it was NTG which procured 7000kgs of fuel cladding material from India and shipped it to the Karachi Nuclear Power Plant via Germany falsely marking the consignment as ``stainless steel tubing``.Hempel, according to a German government report, had also negotiated with another firm, Ventron GmbH, to sell boron carbide, an absorber used in the construction of reactor, to the PAEC. The deal was struck on behalf of the PAEC by Pakland Corporation, a name intriguingly similar to the one owned by Humayun Khan who bought spark gaps from Karni in 2003. Another agent employed by PAEC was a former Brigadier in the Pakistan Army, Inam ul –Haq, who was caught buying 30 metric tones of aluminium tubing for a firm in Lahore, Multinational Corporation. A third agent employed by PAEC was Sulfikar Ahmed Butt whose identity was discovered when he tried to obtain 50 cryptons from EG &G Inc. Wellesley, Massachusetts. He was known as the chief buyer for the bomb makers in Pakistan. The Pakistan Ambassador posted at Bonn facilitated these deals.

Brigadier Haq was financed by the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) set up by a Pakistani financier, Agha Hasan Abedi, a known arms dealer. The BCCI, as investigations later proved, was a front organization floated by financiers, smugglers and intelligence agencies of various governments including the CIA to launder money, supply arms to terrorists, insurgents and rebels at different hotspots across the world. In a report prepared for the US Senate on the BCCI in December 1992, Senators John Kerry and Hank Brown said one of the areas that required deeper investigation was ``the extent of BCCI’s involvement in Pakistan’s nuclear program. There is good reason to conclude that BCCI did finance Pakistan’s nuclear programme through the BCCI Foundation in Pakistan as well as through BCCI-Canada’’.

Brigadier Haq was not the only agent to be financed by the BCCI. In 1987, the BCCI funded two Americans, Rita and Arnodl Mandel to buy $1 billion worth of oscilloscopes and computer equipment for Pakistan’s nuclear programme. The same year, the bank had paid a huge amount to Ashad Pervez, a Pakistani-born Canadian, to buy specialty steel and metal used to speed up nuclear explosions. The report said the BCCI gave $10 million to a private science and technology institute which was headed by Dr AQ Khan. There is ample evidence that Dr Khan too had employed agents and intermediaries to sell and procure nuclear materials and technology. A one-page memo from the Iraqi intelligence service (Mukhabarat) dated October 6, 1990, given to the US intelligence by Hussein Kamel, Saddam Hussein’s son-in-law who defected in 1995, mentioned a meeting between intelligence officials and a representative of Dr Khan, Malik. Dr Khan, the memo said, offered to give Iraq project designs for a nuclear weapon. Khan quoted a price of $5 million. Similar evidence is available on Dr Khan’s deals in North Korea. It is now well known that Pakistan supplied nuclear technology and materials to North Korea for cash and against missile components and technology. An intelligence report in 2002 said ``tens of thousands of dollars `` were deposited into the personal bank accounts of Pakistani scientists working at the Khan Research Laboratory, Kahuta.

more...

http://www.observerindia.com/analysis/A109.htm

Clear cut ties between BCCI and Khan. This link also details the ties between Khan, B.S.A. Tahir, and Tan Sri Asmat, for those exploring the serpentine trail I laid out in post 63.

[Me.]

66. Can You Provide A Direct Link Between All This

and the *ush administration?

[Me.]

67. kick

[robertpaulsen]

71. Cheney is the link, it's in American Judas.

Here's one piece of evidence:

On the Nuclear Edge
by Seymour M. Hersh

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/content/?040119fr_archive02

[Me.]

72. Given So Much Time Has Passed

since we did original Plame, and since Rove is the one in the headlights, Cheney has managed to stay in the background, I forgot (temporarily) how Halliburton had been suspected of selling components for WMDs to Iran and others, and V Plame may have been hot on the trail. And what happened to the French investigation of him?

[robertpaulsen]

73. Nothing new.

This is all I see on the French investigation:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4163810/

Perhaps, like Fitzgerald, Reynaud van Ruymbeke is taking his time to make sure all loose ends are tied up before issuing indictments. That's what I'm hoping.

[Me.]

74. We Can Only Hope

thanks