Why are Freepers so obsessed with Hillary Clinton?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

I've been reading Blumenthals "Clinton Wars". I lived through all of this and remember it quite clearly. I have never understood the hatred and fear of Hillary Clinton by the right-wingers. Sure, they hate Democrats, liberals, and centrists, but they have a special problem with her. I just don't get it.

A few months after Bush took power, a freeper friend was telling me his opinion of Hillary Clinton. I expected him to tell me why her health care plan was so bad, or to complain about high taxes.

No. Instead, he gave me a long speech about how Hillary Clinton had only married Bill Clinton for political power. The reason, according to him, that she didn't mind Bill's affairs was because they had a sham marriage. He was trying to make a serious case that the Clinton's personal life was a legitimate political issue. But what was scary was the man seemed *personally* offended by Hillary Clinton, as if her mere existence was a threat to him. When talking about her, his face got red and his voice got shrill. It was as if Clinton had personally done something to him. Mind you, this is a pretty smart guy, but for some reasons, enter Hillary Clinton into the picture and he freaks out.

What the hell is wrong with these people?

Hillary Clinton is just another politician as far as I'm concerned. I'm not a big fan of the Clintons, being that they are the ultimate neo-liberals, but I almost feel I have to defend her against these bizarre personal attacks. What gives?

[TioDiego]

1. Rush Limbaugh is a big part of it.

[boxster]

2. Fear and jealousy.

They can't believe that a woman can be this smart and successful. She's supposed to be at home making babies and baking cookies.

And, it's just like everything else the Repubs do - you must destroy that which you fear. They're just pissed off that she's strong enough to put up with (and counter) their Bushit.

Plus, remember - she's married to Bill, the person on the planet Earth that they hate the most. In the Repub world, Bill and Hillary are one in the same. Co-presidents.

[bloom]

I think they hated Hillary first, though,

and would use the hate they (Limbaugh, whomever) generated to crucify her if/when she were to run for President or VP. (Which is probably what they are afraid of - that she would win.)

[WoodrowFan]

7. Damn! (slaps head)

I thought it was making cookies and baking babies!! Hey honey! I figured out what we're doing wrong! :spank:

[PaDUer]

15. They're trying

to cover for Pickles who's trying to figure out what her part is. Wonder how much we're paying for the new clothes/style that she's wearing these days. Remember those outfits she came to the WH in!

[boxster]

22. Pickles has been groomed to be the "anti-Hillary"

She is the least-involved and least-visible First Lady in recent memory. Maybe in decades.

[bloom]

24. I've thought so, also

no threats to men - no opinions on issues.

[smirkymonkey]

28. In fact....

I don't even think she's really alive. Doesn't she have kind of an embalmed look about her - like Reagan?? Freepers go for that kind of thing.

[Meowser]

38. Pickles was on ABC's Good Morning America Today

She was talking about reading as she used to be a librarian. She is as dull as a doorknob. I couldn't tell you one thing of substance that she says. She just sits there will this hazy, valium-induced smile like a Stepford wife.

[newyawker99]

47. Hi Meowser!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Oracle]

52. Did she talk about drunk driving and killing people?

Because she used to do that too when she was a "librarian."

Now "she is as dull as a doorknob" because she is nicely sedated on some fine pharmaceuticals...

I think they have both drunks, George and Laura fucked up on pharmaceuticals and away from the booze and behaving like the good little robot aliens they are.

[MISSDem]

53. and you know that fence

they built around the grounds - they didn't want her wandering off.

[Democrats unite]

3. Her wit and charm

eom

[Girlfriday]

4. I'm reading the Clinton Wars too....

....and I love it! Why do freepers hate her? Who knows. I just think they can't stand an intelligent, powerful women. She should be home baking cookies I guess.

[LynneSin]

5. She's a Clinton and she COULD feasibly run for president

And if it has the last name of Clinton, the freepnuts ooze with jealousy and hate. Heck they're probably trying to a recall on getting the King of Funk, George Clinton, replaced with Wayne Newton!

[WoodrowFan]

6. Beats Me, but I have an idea..

I noticed some of the worst such Hillery-haters I knew were, um, not the smartest or strongest or most macho guys. They also tended to talk a good game when it came to trying to ACT macho-- "bomb the ragheads!" kinda crap. I think many of them are scared to death of a strong woman because they fell they are weak men. There was a recent movie about the extreme Pro-lifers and one of them made a comment that all his life he had been "vaginally challenged" (sp). Also, the few wives I have met of these guys tended to be meek little things, as if that's all the guy could handle. What can I say. "Only a weak man fears a strong woman."

Just a little amateur head-shrinking

[spooky3]

8. here's my guess

1. She represents the strong, educated woman who is more competent than they are. For years these neanderthals got jobs that women like her should have gotten and they accurately perceive a threat, but inaccurately perceive it as INjustice.
2. She is different from the little woman they have at home, who puts up with their beer or martini swilling while she's doing all the housework, taking most of the responsibility for the kids, and probably working outside the home too, then she goes to church where she's told to be obedient to the hubby.

If she had left her hubby during all the impeachment mess, they would hate her for that, too ("she's a man-hater").

It's called sexism, American Talibanism, or whatever you like.

[mikeysnot]

9. Because they are Programmed

My right wing family HATES her, but when I ask them for one reason why, they either say, "I just do", "There are lots of reasons" or my favorite "she is stupid not to know her husband was cheating on her"... what ever folks, get a life......

[IrateCitizen]

10. Because she is the epitome of everything a woman should not be...

... at least in their eyes.

She is independent, she is ambitious, she is assertive. She kept her own last name until Bill was elected Governor of AR.

To most of the freepers, women should either be sex objects, or in their "proper place" -- which means at home, barefoot and pregnant, chained to the stove.

[Caution]

11. ten years of right-wing propaganda

painting her as the anit-christ. she certainly isnt perfect but for some reason these people actually believe she is evil incarnate. I'm still looking for a single piece of information about her that shows her to be anything other than a strong woman who wished to make the world a better place.

[Gloria]

12. I just had another major blowout with my mother this morning...

It's rooted in "Bill Clinton" hatreed, but Hillary is along for the ride. My mother, who brought me up a liberal, talks in total freeper talk now. She goes to Lucianne's website. It's totally nuts. She gets almost RABID in her hatred of Clinton. The blow job is the biggest offense. Policy means nothing, it's all personal greed,fear, envy directed at these two people.

If you try to talk facts, you get nowhere. Iraq is a victory. If you talk about how she's working against her own self-interest, you get nothing.
Doesn't care about the deficit because it "won't affect her." Doesn't care about the future, either. Totally absorbed in her own condition.

Wants it both ways. On the one hand, uses Hillary's vote about Iraq to back Bush up, then says she's a "traitor" because is speaking out now post-war.

By the way, I'm a traitor too because of the "people I associate with." She hates the fact I do stuff for Buzzflash.

I don't know how I can stand it.

[gratuitous]

13. They're just secretly in love

Crushes are sooooo cute, aren't they?

Why do the Freeps express their love so badly? Well, you may recall your own days as a six year old, when the only means you had to communicate to the girl you had a mad crush on was to throw a pine cone at her or something. The emotionally arrested folks we're dealing with here can still only express themselves through throwing pine cones, or acting out as a means of getting the girl's attention.

[MrPrax]

39. Bra Snapping later in Life!!

and on to misogynist rants...

This is a good thread...
I often wonder about why the Right seem to be vitrolic towards her and her daughter for purely ridiculous reasons...ugly, lesbian, bill had to have Monica coz the wife wasn't doing her duties, etc etc
I have thought IT MIGHT BE a weird cultural S&M thing...

I have never like her cause she is an opportunist with little principles, but not for any strange notion as she is not a proper wife!!?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

41. good point, perhaps they have a thing for dominant women?

I suppose it's possible.

[tridim]

14. They want her to be president

because subconsciously they realize they had it good during Bill's 8 years. They also had fun with the sex-scandal-a-day game, they miss it dearly. Perverts. It was fun for them because like all of us, they didn't have to worry about real problems with the country, like having a job and the economy.

[JHB]

16. It started off before the '92 election...

...where where both Clinton and Bush played up Hillary: Bill, to cover his left flank with a partner who was a successful and influential lawyer who (had he not been the candidate) would have been a top contender for Attorney General: a feminist's next-best dream to having Hillary running herself.

The Bush campaign took those same qualities (plus Hillary's minor role in Watergate) to paint here as the personification of the right's worst nightmare-idea of feminists, and it's just snowballed from there. She's become the Boogey-woman.

I've long said that concerning the Clintons there are three kinds of people: swooners, foamers, and sane people.

Hillary is a talented and capable lawyer and politician, who only deserves a fraction of both the praise and opprobrium heaped upon her.
And we've learned to our peril that there are plenty of worse things than that.

[Cappurr]

17. I think its complicated...

Part of it is definitely the "strong woman" syndrome and so-called "macho" men's fear of that. There is also a belief (probably true) that Hillary is more progressive (liberal) than Bill and in the culture war that currently exists in this country, that is frightening to these people.

Lastly, I think these guys just need someone to hate. They are angry. They aren't introspective enough to figure out why. So they project their hatred onto iconic figures. :shrug:

[noonwitch]

18. I don't get it either

Especially since there are conservative females in office, like Liddy Dole and that blonde woman from Texas (Kay Hutchinson?).

The things that they say about Hillary are just beyond belief. She's a lesbian, but she had an affair with Vince Foster. Web Hubell is Chelsea's father. Hillary's an agent for the chicoms. Hillary wants to take their guns and force their daughters to get abortions. Hillary is the devil incarnate. Hillary unduly influenced Bill when he was President (hey, at least she never had to whisper the answers in his ear at press conferences, and she never planned the white house schedult by clearing it with her astrologer first). Hillary will let the UN take over our country. Hillary is the anti-christ/whore of Babylon (and I thought the WOB was the catholic church, or at least that's what they teach at Bob Jones U).

I guess that the freepers are a bunch of men with really small penises, who look like the locals in "Deliverence". That's why they are obsessed with driving big cars and shooting guns. Their insecurity about their own sexuality is why they use religon to justify their hatred of gay men, but I'll bet they all have typical male fantasies of lesbians.

[spooky3]

37. But Liddy Dole and KB Hutchinson

are both very conservative on policy themselves, especially Dole, with whom I agree on absolutely nothing. AND, they play the Repug women's game of pretending that they are just sweet little helpless gals to manipulate others (men and women who are easily threatened). Hillary had to do it to some extent when she was in the White House (remember the change in emphasis from health care to the "more feminine" interest in children's issues?), but never to the extent the Repugs would demand.

[edzontar]

19. Fear of women. hatred of their own ignoance....

Male inadequacy, etc.

[PopSixSquish]

20. Because She's Smarter Than They Are...

and doesn't know her place. Oddly enough, my ex, who fits the stereotype of what a Republican voter is (southern, white male, rural upbringing, ex-military) loved Hillary and that was his explanation of why others hated her. As a matter of fact, he got so pissed off by the constant attacks on the Clintons that he re-registered as an independent and voted for Gore in 2000.

And decorum prevents me from repeating what he had to say about W. Being ex-military, he supported McCain as did a lot of his buddies, however it wasn't enough.

[bloom]

21. For "fun" I did a search - O'Reilly, in his own words...

"Of all the active politicians in America, I consider Mrs. Clinton to be the most dangerous," "The O'Reilly Factor" host contends. "She has her eye on the big prize and she will buy as many votes as she can to capture the presidency."

The top-rated host predicts that Sen. Clinton won't make her move until 2008, but when she does, "she will pander to minority communities, the labor unions and the liberal special interest groups ... and, if elected, will deliver the cash."

Given Mrs. Clinton's big-spending voting record in just her first two years in Congress, the Fox host contends, "There's no question she wants your money for redistribution under her control."

<snip>

"If President Hillary becomes a reality, the United States will be a polarized, thief-ridden nanny state with a mean-spirited headliner living on Pennsylvania Avenue," he says, adding, "if you cross her, it's the reincarnation of 'Mommie Dearest.'"


http://www.newsmax.com/hottopics/Sen._Hillary_Clinton.shtml

[JHB]

23. In other words...

...a personified grab-bag focus of their wildest liberal-hate fantasies; the Boogey-woman.

[bloom]

26. I think they will always think of her as the ulitmate, feminist, liberal

because of her past associations, no matter what she does in the Senate (voting for the war, or whatever).

[Cappurr]

29. Yeah....it will be polarized all right...

by the same people that polarized the country when Clinton was president. By people like Bill O'Reilly.

I always loved it when these conservative idiots would ask "What do we tell our children" about Bill and Monica. Well if these assholes hadn't broadcast it on tv 24/7 the children wouldn't have known anything about it....just like we didn't know about JFK.

I believe the Starr Report (which I only read for the first time about two years ago) will go down in history as one of the sleaziest, most useless, cruelest political documents ever written. Everyone that had anything to do with that so-called "investigation" should have scarlett letters branded into their foreheads.

[LeahMira]

33. I think you're right ...

The top-rated host predicts that Sen. Clinton won't make her move until 2008, but when she does, "she will pander to minority communities, the labor unions and the liberal special interest groups ... and, if elected, will deliver the cash."

Given Mrs. Clinton's big-spending voting record in just her first two years in Congress, the Fox host contends, "There's no question she wants your money for redistribution under her control."


Every halfway coherent reason I've ever heard is that Senator Clinton is a socialist who will take money from hard-working folks and give it to people who don't want to work.

[JHB]

34. I'm sorry, are you joking?

Or do you mean "according to the opinions I've heard, they think..."?

So often, when it involves the Clintons, one person's sarcastic overkill is someone else's actual opinion.

[shimmergal]

46. LOL. That's exactly what * is doing now.

It doesn't take a socialist to take money from hard-working folks and give it to people who don't want to work. Just a dunce pushing a bunch of giant tax cuts for the wealthy.

How much real work has Smirk done in his lifetime?

[LeahMira]

54. Ah, but...

It doesn't take a socialist to take money from hard-working folks and give it to people who don't want to work. Just a dunce pushing a bunch of giant tax cuts for the wealthy.


Conservatives don't believe that wealthy people don't work. In fact, they believe that if they work hard enough, they too could be wealthy. Of course the reason they aren't wealthy, in spite of all their hard work, is that the government keeps taxing them to death instead of letting them keep what they've earned... or so they claim.

I suppose they figure that the really wealthy have somehow managed to get around the tax thing. Go figure! :shrug:

Another thing they say is that they resent being forced to support the poor. They insist that they give to charities of their choice, where they feel that only the truly deserving receive assistance, but they resent that the government gives them no choice but to "donate" to help the needy and no choice as to which "needy" are helped.

Don't kill me! I'm just the messenger here! I've been around and around with some of these folks on AOL's boards before I got tired of paying so much just for e-mail and the masochistic thrill of arguing with neanderthals. I don't get it either. But I really do think that you have to hear what these people are saying and respond to that as best you can, when you can. Otherwise, we just talk past one another.

[qb]

25. She's the Anti-Stepford. n/t

[RandomKoolzip]

27. Something I hear when conservatives talk about Hillary....

is that they hate her and Bill because they are "Self-serving career politicians." In fact they always phrase it like that, giving me the suspicion that it's a Limbaugh or Liddy meme. I guess what they mean by that is that Neither Bill or Hillary had a career of their own before they got into politics (bullshit, both were succesful lawyers.)

Another one is "Power-hungry." As opposed to Newt Gingrich or Tom Delay or Dick Cheney, huh? None of those guys lust after power, do they. Nope, just some concerned citizens who have unexpectedly found themselves in positions of authority, right? Right. When one tries to get elected on the left-of-center, they get accused by the right of being "power-hungry." Beautiful.

Also, there's the phony reasons like Hillary orchestrating the Oklahoma City bombing to foment a crackdown on Militia groups and right-wing American terrorists, Hillary covering up Whitewater, Hillary using her army of radio controlled walking corpses to do her bidding and destroy Merrikkkan family values, etc. etc. They just make shit up, in other words. THey're fucked in the head, and unfortunately, there are a whole bunch of people who'd love to be fucked in the head too, because it gets rid of the pain of thinking for oneself.

[LeahMira]

56. Power to do what?

...they hate her and Bill because they are "Self-serving career politicians." In fact they always phrase it like
that, giving me the suspicion that it's a Limbaugh or Liddy meme. I guess what they mean by that is that Neither
Bill or Hillary had a career of their own before they got into politics (bullshit, both were succesful lawyers.)

Another one is "Power-hungry." As opposed to Newt Gingrich or Tom Delay or Dick Cheney, huh? None of those
guys lust after power, do they. Nope, just some concerned citizens who have unexpectedly found themselves in
positions of authority, right? Right. When one tries to get elected on the left-of-center, they get accused by the right
of being "power-hungry."


I think that they would say that the Clintons are ready to redistribute the money that the average citizen earns to give to those less fortunate, but that the Clintons are not interested in seeing their own wealth "redistributed." One example is that the Clinton administration was opposed to vouchers so that the average person could afford to put their child in a private school, but Chelsea went to private school. Of course a lot of Republican children attend private schools also, but the Republicans would give out vouchers.

Never mind that what Bush is asking us to spend in Iraq could fund better schools for everyone's kids. Oh well...

[bushclipper]

30. Strong woman = threat to (white) male dominated society...

white male dominated society = more repug votes. Simple.

[paulk]

31. she's a strong woman who can compete with and defeat them

on their own playing field.

My father in law's brother is a life long Republican that the two of us have convinced to vote Democrat in the next election. But he still goes off on Hillary. He hates her. He's a very smart, successful businessman and he absolutely hates Hillary Clinton.

I don't get it.

[devinsgram]

32. Personally I think she frightens them

with her intelligence. Something they lack.

[sable302]

35. I don't buy it

that the right wingers hate Hillary because she isn't a homemaker who bakes cookies or whatever. They fawn all over Coulter, and how many babies and cookies do you suppose that woman has made? It's something else. They really do think that she is an evil wicked witch, who is out to take away everything they hold dear.

I think it has more to do with her politics than anything. Didn't she help with the folks who worked to impeach Nixon? Also, she married Bill, which makes her evil by association.

[spooky3]

40. but we are not trying to explain why they would disagree with

her politics; that is obvious. The question is why are they so rabid about Hillary? The men in the Demo. field (and Moseley-Braun, whom I am sure they ignore because they think she has no chance) have politics that are in varying ways similar to Hillary's and in some cases, more to the left. But these men do not evoke the level of negative emotion and irrationality from the neocons. Why are they so much less threatening, particularly when THEY are the current candidates to take over where Bill left off?

Most of the neocon men will no longer love Annthrax when she no longer meets their definition of attractive. "You don't have to bake cookes and have babies until you are married; you just have to be cute and agree with me." And, if they love her so much, why isn't she married? Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[sable302]

43. Ann is attractive?

Yikes! They're worse off than I thought!

So I guess they don't hate Moseley-Braun the same way since she is not considered a serious contender just now? I really just don't think that any ol'liberal woman would ignite the same fires of hatred in them that Hillary does.

Back a few years when a woman ran for VP, did she ignite the same feelings? I was too young at the time to remember. Perhaps knowing that might shed some light on this.

[SiouxJ]

36. Did you read this on MSN's homepage today?

"Why does the GOP yearn for the former first lady to run for president?"

http://slate.msn.com/id/2088758/

Sorry if someone else already pointed it out. It's food for thought. There's also a great link there about how Shrub fumbled the UN thing yesterday.

[bloom]

44. Reasons the right want her to run - (pretty obvious)

http://slate.msn.com/id/2088758/ - shortened

" 1.
She brings a divided right together.

2.
Nostalgia.... The right actually misses its halcyon days of concocting insane Clinton conspiracy theories

3.
Fund raising. Some of the longing to re-create Clinton-bashing unity is based on political calculation....

4.
Belief that American politics is dynastic....

5.
Belief in their own Hillary caricature....

6. A longing to make the 2004 presidential race interesting. Conservative journalists are no less inclined than other journalists to root for developments that will spice up political coverage...."

[Hamlette]

45. great article in slate, thanks for the link

I especially buy the "unite the right wing" argument. With Michael Moore and Bill Maher (both supported Nader in 2000) coming around, it may be that Bush is our Hillary in that regard. Hate it as I do, wedge politics work. Bummer.

I also think it has to do with the 60s. A large group of people think that protests against the war in Vietnam and the hippie, free love, women's rights and drugs stuff destroyed our country. They are also still pissed about Bork and Nixon. Bill and Hillary are poster kids for the 60s.

Sounds far fetched but remember the movement to impeach Bill started a few weeks after he was elected, before he'd even been sworn in. They have a hard time talking about it because the war in Vietnam is now seen as a mistake but they still think those who were against the war were traitors. You are seeing that play out now. Of course, its all politics because it was okay for them to dis Bill over Kosovo.

Revenge is a powerful emotion.

[Solomon]

42. They're obsessed because she's the best

fundraiser in the party.

[dkamin]

48. Conservatives scared of women

This is based on my experiences with Federalist Society members, who may or may not have been Freepers, but they struck me generally as persons who were always rejected by girls and women growing up. Almost always single and very angry, they were the junior versions of Karl Rove and his ilk. I think they dislike Hillary because she represents a strong woman figure, which is something their juvenile psyches can't handle.

These are the same people who want to order mail order brides and complain vehemently about interracial marriage.

In other words, they're incredible losers who can't psychologically get past their devastating sexual formative years, and blame it on the feminist movement and the equalization of the status of women. Hillary, as a strong and confident female figure, is everything that makes them miserable.

Not to mention that they HATE her even more because she stayed with Bill through all of the Lewinsky stuff. That a strong woman could be loyal is something that destroys the facile premises of their twisted misogynistic worldviews.

[mandyky]

49. She's related to Bill's penis!

Anything mildly related to Big Dog's johnson drives freepers nutso!

[robbedvoter]

50. "I hate her because she's me" Barbara Comstock - RW pundit

said to David brock leading him to conclude that they were projecting on her the worst in them/their fears. (Blinded by the Right). red meat for the angry white male.

[MISSDem]

51. one poster over at lucianne.com

said that she would kill herself if Hillary was ever elected President.

[oasis]

55. Keeping the Clintons front and center steals spotlight from leading Dems.

Fox , Rush and Tweety don't want voters to get familiar with Clark, Kerry and Dean.