Any ladies want to write some nasty letters

[shadowknows69]

Just need to vent this. I found out yesterday that a former co-worker and good friend of mine got turned down for a job because at a previous job she had filed a sexual harassment charge against a fellow employee. Something she was completely justified in doing. This girl was attacked twice at two seperate office Christmas parties no less. In both incidents a co-worker blatanly grabbed her breasts right in plain view of many party goers and both were swepped under the rug other than the fact that she has it in her mysterious, all powerful permanent file that we all probably have that she made the complaint. It just occurred to me that if she was smart in stead of trying to do the right thing and handle it "in office" she should have had them both arrested on assault charges so the corporation couldn't choose to ignore it. Aint the working life grand girls? I wouldn't blame the lot of you for becoming gold-digging, 80 year-old-millionaire, Anna Nicole Smithites. Probably more self respect than trying to make it in the "boys club". I don't mean to be crass, you have my sincere sympathies as a male feminist. Don't give up the fight.

[aquart]

1. Well, you ARE crass.

And beyond naive, as well. Surprise, surprise, we don't have the rights they say we do.

ANYONE who makes a fuss gets burned at the stake and it ain't just women.

But when I grew up, any self-respecting woman knew how to duck and dodge and play the office gropers. Please, I worked for a man who tried to give me to a client as a perk. Very fancy footwork needed.

As Anita Hill knows, complaining is not a real option, unless you have enough on tape for a multi-million dollar settlement, like O'Reilly had to pay. That's enough to tide you over the years of unemployment that will follow.

[shadowknows69]

3. I apologize if I offended

But truly I only have the best interests opf my friend in mind. Forgive me for giving a shit and believe me I'm not naive about the state of this world it just never ceases to amaze me that in a supposedly enlightened age this still goes on. After re-reading your post I also have to ask. Are you saying my friend should have taken her gropes and remained quiet because to complain is futile? If so I think that's a defeatist attitude. The quest for justice should not be dependent upon its likelihood of success. You fight or you remain a slave.

[WildClarySage]

5. Crass is as crass does...

"But when I grew up, any self-respecting woman knew how to duck and dodge and play the office gropers. Please, I worked for a man who tried to give me to a client as a perk. Very fancy footwork needed."

Please tell me this isn't you saying it's her fault for not ducking and dodging someone else's inappropriate behavior?

[shadowknows69]

6. This woman was flat out assaulted twice

not a co-worker making unwanted advances. Someone coming up behind her and full on grabbing both of her breasts. The second guy did it probably because they let the first guy get away with it.

[Maine-ah]

2. got a couple of questions

1. is that the reason the employer told her she wasn't hired?


2. did the former employer tell the possisble future employer about this incident?

I don't believe that legally a former employer (in reference to question 2) can do that, at least up here they can't. If someone calls for a reference (in Maine as far as I know) you can only tell the good, or you don't say anything at all. All I can say if someone calls for a reference is "yep, they worked here" "he/she was a great employee" ect... I can't legally say, "they were a terrible employee, never showed up on time" ect... I also don't believe you can refuse to hire someone based only on the fact they filed a sexual harassment charge, at a previous job. But what the hell do I know, I'm not a lawyer, and the way things are in the country right now I wouldn't be surprised if you can refuse someone employment based on this one thing.

any law nuts in the house? maybe they can answer the question.

[shadowknows69]

4. 1) I don't know if they came right out and said it

but she seemed to know confidently that they knew about her permanent file which I agree with you sounds illegal. Then again this is New York State and despite us being blue employers here can pretty much fire (or not hire) you for any reason.

[China_cat]

7. This is now corporate Amerikkka

Us peons no longer have any rights and all 'rules' are off when it comes to hiring, firing, promotions and pay.

You take what they'll give you and don't dare ask for more.

[TalkingDog]

8. Ladies? Girls? Male Feminist??? Are you sure?

Your obvious self-delusions aside....

If she honestly thinks she is getting turned down for jobs due to this "file". Tell her to contact a lawyer. He can call her former job, acting as an interested potential employer. If they disparage her in any way not related to her job...she won't have to become a poor li'l gold digger, she can sue their asses. It happens every day and people make lots of money. I'd also consider filing a civil suit.

[Rich Hunt]

9. you're absolutely right

Sounds like she's being "blacklisted".

[shadowknows69]

13. Enlighten me then on the proper PC terms I should be using.

I'm not up on my Gloria Steinham so I guess I shouldn't have called myself a feminist. Forgive me for caring about female rights.

[Ripley]

10. Is that a slam?

I wouldn't blame the lot of you for becoming gold-digging, 80 year-old-millionaire, Anna Nicole Smithites. Probably more self respect than trying to make it in the "boys club".

Pretty damn rude of you to say women who put up with sexist shit in the 'boys club' of work don't have as much self respect as Anna nicole.

Funny, men usually only utilize 'golddigger' when rape or ex-wives come up.

[shadowknows69]

12. No, it wasn't a slam

I was just saying believe it or nor that I respect women who stick it out and take the bullshit but also that stand up for their rights. I give up. Just trying to get some advice on a friend's situation. don't worry won't happen again.

P.S. I've never raped anyone or been their ex-husband.

[fasttense]

11. Sexual harassment is such an insidious manipulation of authority

that it is very hard to get rid of it once it takes a foothold in a company. I remember being chased around my boss's desk before the word sexual harassment was even coined. It wasn't right and I complained. The guy was reprimanded but he was still my boss and made my life miserable. I eventually quit. But other women told me they had the same problems with other men in the company. I told the personnel office that it was more widespread than they knew. They ignored me. I never listed that company on my resume though.

Ten years later twelve women filed a class action lawsuit against the company and they won. If the company had listened when I first complained they wouldn't of been out millions of dollars plus court/lawyers fees.

But what goes around comes around and at another company I caught one of my assistants chasing the secretaries around. I caught him in the middle of groping her while she was clearly backed into a corner. He tried to deny it, then claimed the secretary wanted to play around. Of course that wasn't the secretary's story, nor the other five women who came out and said he had done the same thing to them. He was so fired. It was great to see his face.

The only way to stop them is get them in the pocketbook. When they pay for their behavior they listen up.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

14. I think every women over the age of 16 probably has a sexual

harassment encounter at work. Some you can handle, others need to have their asses in a sling.

I went to work for a small bank several years ago. Two men, president and vice president (natch) and the rest were approx. 20 women - 16 - 60 (we had two high school co-op students to come in file, etc.)

On my very first day of work I was in the President's office filling out the necessary employment forms, signing up for benefits and getting the "glad you are here pep talk." Small place - the president was only about 30 years old (family owned) handle this stuff himself. Anyway, toward the end of the little visit the President of the bank told me in a very casual way as escorting me out of his office, "Oh, by the way. Don't get caught alone with Mr. H." Said it again, "Don't get caught alone with Mr. H." Took me a few days to ask one of the other employees what he meant. And of course, they all accepted that it was part of their job description NOT TO TEMPT Mr. H. Don't get caught in the break room (he seemed to watch to see if anyone was left by herself, don't work late alone, don't go looking for old records in the attic. He would appear with wandering hands and a lot of influence over your career. It was our responsibility for our own safety by the owner of the business. He seem to feel it would be easier to get us to watch out for ourselves than get this pervert to behave. (Pervert was a upstanding, churchgoing, married, Rotary Club and Chamber of Commerce bigwig, important member of the community.)

One day he trapped one of the co-op teens alone in the vault during an extremely busy Friday payday. The lobby was full and all of a sudden you hear this high pitched scream coming from the vault from the young lady - "Mr.H don't! Everything came to a dead stop. You could have heard a pin drop. She came running out crying and the vice president came out after her with a very red face (good English farce theater!). The next morning this girl's parents were standing outside waiting for the doors to the bank to open. After a very brief, loud, and threatening meeting the parents left, the President was pissed and the Vice President learned to keep his damn hands to himself.

I always wonder why this bunch of women allowed themselves to be terrorized by this jerk and one young teen came in and took him out with one scream. Maybe knew it was because we all needed our jobs and this child had a little more wiggle room.

There is harassment in today's work place and no one should have to endure it. Tell your friend to document that they are "blacklisting" her and then go for their pocketbook. I cannot speak authoritatively on whether men are harassed or not but I do know there has been very few jobs I have had over the years there wasn't some type of harassment going on. Hopefully women are smarter, stronger and can handle the situations where it calls for a deft touch to get it to stop but can also know what to do when it takes stronger actions. First and foremost - document, document, document. Just carrying a small voice activated tape recorder in a pocket can go a long way toward supporting a claim.

[shadowknows69]

15. Actually I just remembered

One of the assaults in question actually made the local tv news and so in a market this small my friend's willingness to file a report is known everywhere so the blacklisting could definitely be going on and the copmpany that did the cover up probably didn't leak her report. She has been able to find other work but just recently lost that so I'm trying to get her to come work for me.