NASCAR Formula One Boss--sexist comments to a woman of skill:

[FizzFuzz]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/3711152

Associated Press
Posted: 11 hours ago

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - Indy Racing League driver Danica Patrick is upset at Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone and confused by his comments likening women to "domestic appliances."

Patrick received a telephone call from Ecclestone last week during which he congratulated the IRL rookie for her performance at the Indianapolis 500, but also reiterated remarks he had made during an interview at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, where the United States Grand Prix was being held.

Among the comments Ecclestone made in the interview and to Patrick was that "women should be all dressed in white like all other domestic appliances."

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. Absolutely mindblowing that anyone would say that.

"Confused" is putting it mildly.

[FizzFuzz]

6. yeah, I did wonder how it would be presented

if it were a man commenting on insulting comments, like racist remarks.

Oh yeah, we know what happens then--a huge media outrage--remember Fuzzy Geller's asswipe joke about Tiger Woods? Demands for apologies. Numerous editorials reflecting on the evils of racism, and why Geller's head lodges within his rectum.
(and I don't follow sports whatsoever...I only know because it filtered into the mass awareness. Bet this won't go much farther; though like I said, at least it did get SOME attention)

[JerseygirlCT]

2. Wonder what color sexists wear?

[FizzFuzz]

16. heh heh! good one! and loks like we have an answer, downpost.

;)

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

3. I'm confused . . .

What is "NASCAR Formula One"? NASCAR and Formula One are two completely separate racing organizations. Bernie Ecclestone is the head of Formula One, not NASCAR.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

4. Ecclestone is not Bill France

Formula 1 and Nascar are two different organizations run by two different people.

(BTW there have been women Nascar drivers)

[FizzFuzz]

7. email AP then, and correct them

I wouldn't know a NASCAR from a go kart; I just copied and pasted.

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

8. Why e-mail AP?

The word "NASCAR" doesn't appear anywhere in the AP's story.

[FizzFuzz]

10. OOPS you're right! My mistake--

appologies!

I don't know the difference--cars is cars, ya know?

Thanks, I'll go fix it

[Telly Savalas]

27. Aaaaah!

There's a huge difference between souped up Buicks and some of the most technologically advanced machines on four wheels.

(Although I'll grant you that there's also a huge difference between a well-adjusted human being and a geeky Formula 1 snob.)

[FizzFuzz]

46. ummm, like,.....so what? this isn't a discussion about cars.

focus man, focus.

[FizzFuzz]

11. drat. editing period is over.

Now my ignorance will be on display forever.

:P

Bet I'll remember now though, Formula One and Nascar are two different things...

[FizzFuzz]

15. but aside from my mistake, what did you think about the SEXISM? n/t

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

29. Oh, as for Ecclestone's comments . . .

. . . I think he's complete buffoon. Speaking as the father of a daughter, if some guy were to direct such a comment in her direction, he might find himself with a few loose teeth.

[ohio_liberal]

63. There ARE women Nascar drivers

Deborah Renshaw & Shawna Robinson are just two off the top of my head. Erin Crocker, Allison Duncan, and Sarah Fisher are development drivers with high dollar, high profile owners and are expected to compete in the big series soon.

[jmcon007]

5. Bernie should dress in brown, like all other assholes.

[smirkymonkey]

13. Touche!

Nice one! :thumbsup:

[ucmike]

9. maybe the old fashioned ramblings of arrogant brit billionaires

shouldn't carry so much weight.

[FizzFuzz]

17. so do you brush off old fashioned racist comments in the same fashion?

[ucmike]

18. i consider the source.

i've known some old timers who still say things that are messed up and totally out of fashion. but i don't spend a lot of energy trying to change people who don't matter and won't be changed.

i also know that no one was paying any attention to bernie eccelstone prior to that, most people probably have no idea who he is or who danica patric is, so why be outraged now. you might as well have overheard someone's grandpa being an ass.

i also know that formula one racing is a barely watched in the US and that the whole thing was probably aimed at getting media attention for a racing circuit that is struggling to get a bigger media presence in the US.

and it seems to work. you said yourself you know nothing about the sport (and i take it you're not much of a sports fan in general) yet, you chose to start a discussion about it and (politely)challenge peoples views on the issue

[FizzFuzz]

19. I do see your point

It is a point that's worth taking into account.

I think its also important to understand how many women feel, in the face of sexism.

As a woman, I experience sexism way too frequently, both personally (just had an incident in a professional setting recently, as a matter of fact) and as a member of society. Sometimes the incidents are small yet cutting, sometimes they are subtle and sometimes they are egregious. But they add up.

It gets wearing. And the typical lack of response, not to mention the all too common "lighten up honey" attitudes, outside of women's groups also gets old.

This felt like yet another example of the same old same old.

And actually, pointing it out, drawing attention to the fact that this is an insult, doesn't sap THAT much energy from larger causes.

Who knows, maybe it will be the knock on the head that someone couldn't apprehend before. You just never know what will make someone say, "Hey, wait, I get it!"

[ucmike]

20. i understand it gets old.

i thought it was strange that he repeated the comment to her on the phone. that was the sign of a real jack ass, considering she is doing pretty well and drawing attention to his racing circuit.

[bloom]

23. Well with that attitude

we might as well close up the Democratic Underground and forget taking anyone to task about anything.

[ucmike]

28. what does that mean?

ever heard of choosing your battles wisely? i don't understand expending energy or outrage at a one line comment from some old jackass that only made the news cause it was outrageous. i'm sure that bernie eccelstone says ridiculous crap all the time, but we don't have media coverage of that. we're not talking about some political figure, or someone with some degree of public influence. he's a rich, old, dickhead, involved in a business that no one cares about.

i'm all for challenging idiots when it matters. this doens't matter, and he doesn't matter. as far as i know he's done nothing to stop her from racing in his league, and she's doing quite well. the fact of the matter is that if he hadn't said that no one would still be talking about danica patric, who will benefit from the publicity. now, people will tune in to see what she does and if she makes him look like an even bigger ass by being successful.

so please, take him to task. stop watching his races and don't support him. that'll show him (ps. nobody in america is watching his races anyway)

[bloom]

31. So women have someone breaking the barriers

in a sport and one of the leading men in that sport denigrates her publicly and directly and you trivialize it as well.

And you expect me and every other progressive to act like it's nothing.

If it's not a battle for you - why don't you go find one that is - but don't tell me what is a battle for me or the OP - or try to trivialize womens issues. We get that enough as it is.

[ucmike]

32. i'm sure that bernie is sitting home worrying about the fallout.

all the internet screaming in the world isn't changing him. that was my point. i am trivializing HIM, not you or your issues. he doesn't matter, you never paid any attention to him before 3 days ago, now you are outraged at him and you accuse me of trivializing womans issues because i choose to ignore a dottering old idiot.

am i not progressive because i don't think this nonsense, from a nobody, is worth the energy to be upset about? (are you denigrating me for not being progressive enough because i don't agree with you? not very progressive of you. and i'm sorry that i have the nerve to not get in lockstep with the rest of the progessive hive that you have been elected to represent in its entirety.)

i have plenty of personal issues, i am frequently upset by things i see and hear, but i reserve my energy for the issues that matter and where i can make a difference. i don't write letters to karl rove, cause i'm not going to change him. i do write letters to my elected reps because that can make a difference. that was my point. had nothing to do with trivializing you or your issues.

[FizzFuzz]

38. it is only by drawing attention and speaking out that the overall cultural

denigrations of women can be seen, discussed, and changed.

DU is a sounding board. Progressive change applies to more than only politics. Insults against women, and the tendency of media and everyday people to downplay that reality ARE important.

the point is not so much changing what's his face's behavior, but changing how people see it. Remember old time portrayals of Black people as lazy, stupid, happy slaves? Outcries at the beginning did not change the specific perpetrators, but eventually DID change a society, to where the realization that Black people are human beings is generally internalized, and most people are now repulsed by racial slurs.

women deserve that same recognition of personhood, and the only way to do it is by sustained challenges to the doddering idiots who have access to the public's attention.

[AllyCat]

34. I disagree. Ecclestone is a public figure and should know better

than to say things like that. Danica Patrick is not an unknown anymore. I know a number of women (and men) who now watch racing because she's in it. Even if she was an unknown, Ecclestone is an a** for saying things like that when he should be promoting his drivers. From the looks of things in F1 racing, he needs all the help he can get.

[kiki]

25. And speaking of racism,

or more accurately xenophobia; what does the fact that he's a Brit have to do with anything?

Hands up if your nation's got more than its fair share of arrogant billionaires!

[ucmike]

33. hands up for arrogant billionaires.

nothing wrong with brits, just using adjectives to be descriptive. also, possible cultural differences between brits and americans (although i claim no expertise on british culture and societal norms)

[smirkymonkey]

12. It's so typical of DU for people to get more upset at the mixup

between NASCAR and Formula One than over the idiotic and sexist comment itself.

Almost every response to a post reporting sexism is one that skirts around the issue and instead goes off on some tangent about something else in the post. If this is DU, I would hate to see what conservative boards are like.

[FizzFuzz]

14. thank you so much for pointing that out, smirky

I've noticed that myself.

I'm going to point it out more often, because it is symptomatic of the underlying problem--the triviality of women.

I'll have to try to distinguish between ordinary clarification questions, and avoiding the point.

[Ravy]

55. Exactly! We shouldn't care who gets smeared with the sexist brush!!!

If the head of NASCAR is a man, he probably thinks EXACTLY the same way. They ALL do!

Now, how do I do one of those sarcasm icons????

[FizzFuzz]

59. Oh gee I guess we all IMAGINED "women should wear white

like all domestic appliances", said by Mr Formula 1. (hey Dick, I learned Eccleston is head of Form 1, not NASCAR, and they are two different entities. If you're gonna jump in just to stomp women, get at least one point right.....Oooo I got you twice.)

Gee you sure are smart.

:sarcasm:

Oh my lookatthatwouldja? I know how to do a sarcasm icon. Shazzam #3.

[smirkymonkey]

62. Ooh - See? There we go!

Finally, a man getting upset over sexism! Now we're getting somewhere! :sarcasm:

There's always someone who takes any condemnation of sexist behavior and turns it into sweeping generalization of ALL men.

[Ravy]

66. Actually, I think Ecclestone's action was reprehensible...

I think your comment about "Typical DU" was just as reprehensible. That is the one that prompted my response.

I didn't read every post, but I didn't see a single one defending Ecclestone.

Criticizing the people who were trying to correct the original poster for making a mistake where a casual observer may attribute the blatantly sexist remark to the wrong person does NOT mean they don't agree with your position on the content of the article.

[smirkymonkey]

67. Ok, you are right - I was making a sweeping generalization when

I said "Typical DU", and that wasn't fair, but try to understand that this is something that occurs frequently and I (and many others) are very frustrated by the trivialization of sexism as evidenced by numerous posts on this board.

[Ravy]

68. Well, this sexism (in the article) is easy to point to....

if it wasn't so blatantly ugly there would never have been an article about it.

The sexism that you can only show by statistics and graphs in corporations and government indexes doesn't seem to even make a splash in the news at all. That is the real shame.

on edit: What I am really trying to say is that I wouldn't try to associate DU comments on something this egregious when determining who holds sexual prejudices on this board- and we all probably have some. ANYONE who would agree with this guy is just trying to get attention or pull your chain a bit. I would pretty much guarantee you that people that posted about the title discrepancy didn't also express their opinion on the article because it is so self-evident that the guy is a tenth degree asshole.

[FizzFuzz]

69. Ya knowwww, I made a minor mistake,

equivalent in seriousness to accidentally referring to a "red hat" as "green".

But the article itself, which I posted and highlighted for clarity, is perfectly clear about the event and the people involved. so why are you on about your fear of mistaking one flaming prick for all men or the wrong man?

Furthermore, I graciously accepted correction on the fucking NASCAR/FORM 1 issue, very early in the thread.

Yet you need to say people were TRYING to correct me, as if I were perpetuating my horrific error, when that was done, over with, moved on, finis by about the 5th or so post? You seem to have no reprimands for the many people who have continued to correct me long after that.


--------


And as to your complaint about smirky's post, that hyperfocus on a tangential point IS typical at DU. And attacks on the person who speaks about sexism IS typical of a distressingly large number of people.

In the year or so I've been here, I've seen TONS of sexism and contempt, and bizarre trolling leveled against women who speak up about sexism. I have NEVER seen similar behavior re. racism or most other "isms".

Smirky was not painting anyone with broad brushes, she was describing a common occurence.

You, on the other hand, have used the dreaded "paint with a broad brush" remark against her. As we all know at DU, that is a ninja move intended to smear the poster's powers of reason and discernment, thereby discrediting anything the target has said (and possibly may ever say). And you made sure to be as ugly and contemptuous as possible in your reply to her.

[madrchsod]

21. danica is one of the better drivers in the usa

she cut her teeth by racing go karts against some of the same drivers she is racing against now. she went to europe to race in the "minor leagues" of open wheel european racing-the only female. she kicked the euro boys asses and she did this all by herself.
she may be able in the future to race in f1 if she wanted to but working for letterman and rahal isn`t a bad gig.
bernie pissed off the f1 fans here in the usa and worse he pissed off the family that owns the indy speedway. bernie shouldn`t pick on a 100 lb 5`1 woman that can out drive 95% of the guys in racing.

[jmowreader]

22. Bernie Ecclestone is a fucking idiot, we know that already

The US Grand Prix debacle proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[kenny blankenship]

26. Not to take up for him but

that wasn't his fault. Michelin's F-1 tires which have been so successful during the season so far, weren't up to the sidewall stress imposed by the track's banking and they told the teams that they couldn't vouch for the safety of their tires at Indy. The teams contracted to drive on Michelins individually decided to sit it out.

IMO the episode highlights the stupidity of having a F-1 event--still a road racing series when all is said--held on a boring banked, oval track. F-1 should NEVER have been scheduled for Indianapolis in the first place.

[FizzFuzz]

37. Excuse me--how does Michelin Tire's spec problems have anything to do with

these sexist comments?

"women should be all dressed in white like all other domestic appliances." in an interview and purposefully to her face (telephone), and

"Ecclestone has made controversial remarks about women before. He told Autosport racing magazine in 2000 that women could not compete in Formula One, but if one did, "she would have to be a woman who was blowing away the boys. ... What I would really like to see happen is to find the right girl, perhaps a black girl with super looks, preferably Jewish or Muslim, who speaks Spanish."

Please don't sound like you think manufacturers and track banks and safety parameters in contracts cause excusable devaluations of women's achievments.

[kenny blankenship]

49. No you are NOT excused

I wasn't discussing his idiotic comments but replying to someone else who unfairly tagged Ecclestone for the USGP fiasco. Not ONLY was I replying to someone who ALREADY was off your precious topic, but I SAID I didn't wish to be interpreted as defending him in general. So then naturally, you dove in to attack me. WTF? Can't you bother to read a) the post of the person I'm replying to and b) can't you bother to read just ONE post down the thread--just one!--to see my disapproval of Ecclestone's bizarre idea of a joke?

The world doesn't revolve around your victim complex.

[FizzFuzz]

58. well, you are absolutely right.

I make a point of admitting when I'm wrong, and I do see now that I attacked you unfairly.

Please accept my appologies.

Please watch out for that victim complex meme, particularly since it is used so ubiquitously by people who do actually want to discredit women's efforts to speak out against prejudice....sometimes, a person just misses some details and makes a rash judgement. Human that way, know what I mean?

[jmowreader]

60. Let me explain

Michelin's problems have nothing to do with the fact that Ecclestone is a sexist pig. This is a different issue.

When Ralf Schumacher blew out the side of his tire, Michelin was all over it like white on rice. They knew exactly why the tire blew (the banking concentrated heat at the sidewall/tread join, causing the tire to melt) and how to fix it (put a chicane at the entrance to the high-banked turn to bring vehicle speeds down to a level safe for the tire).

What Ecclestone should have done:
a) Ordered a chicane installed at the offending turn
b) Either re-run qualification for all cars or line up by points, which would probably have made the US Grand Prix a non-points event
c) Went after Michelin for not conducting a tire test at Indianapolis. Come on, folks, Michelin is the largest manufacturer of tires in the world and half the roads in the world are banked; they know what happens to a tire in a bank.

What Ecclestone did was to convene the Polish Parliament to ask them whether a chicane should be installed. "Hey Ferrari! If we don't install a chicane at the entrance to turn 11, all of the Michelin teams will park for the race. Now, we know Schumi's in the running for the 2005 Kohler Cup because he's lost every race to a car with Michelins on it...so whatcha think? Should we put up a chicane so they can kick your butts again?" Let's be real here: what the hell did you expect them to do? "Yeah, put in the chicane. We have found that losing races is a lot of fun!"

[bloom]

53. Race Statistics / Track Description

The United States Grand Prix is round 9 of 18 in the World Championship.

United States Grand Prix Weekend Schedule

Road Course Statistics

Total track length:
2.606 miles
4.195 km

Main straight length:
3,037 feet
926 meters

Back straight length:
1,755 feet
535 meters

Total turns:
13
4-Left 9-Right

Average track width:
46 feet
14 meters

Average Qualifying Speed:
124 mph
200 kph

Race Distance:
73 laps - 190 miles
306 km


Time limit on Race: FIA rules stipulate that Formula 1 races have a maximum time limit of two hours. This race should be completed in less than two hours, barring an emergency stoppage.



http://indymotorspeedway.com/500f1.htm#desc

[kenny blankenship]

24. Well Bernie, yer OLD

and like all old, decrepit and obsolete F-1 gear you should inhale a valve and quietly kick it on the starting line. Then you can be pushed off behind the garage and dressed in dirt. (It's not so nice to be made the object of slur against an entire group of people now is it, Bernie?)

Fookin' hate him anyway for messing with the engine regulations part of the formula. The tire regulations were one thing, but banning the V-10 engine is another. He's on the verge of causing a split within the F-1 world, which would just about kill it off.

[Mixxster]

30. I'm kind of surprised that no one has remarked on the fact...

that Ecclestone called Patrick up and then insulted her. He had already made the stupid remarks during an interview but felt compelled to repeat them directly to her? What a loser.

[AllyCat]

35. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall to what SHE said to HIM.

Danica is a quick wit and has some searing zingers for people who stupidly comment on her being a "woman driver".

[GeekMonkey]

36. One would expect this type of comment from a NASCAR person

But this was a Formula 1 person.

Formula 1 is much different from the redneck circle jerk that is nascar.

Surprising that such a neanderthal comment would come from someone that hsold know better.

[wicket]

39. Disgusting

:grr:

[Not_Giving_Up]

40. NASCAR and Formula One are two different things

One has nothing to do with the other.

[lukasahero]

41. Yes, we know - read the thread - that ship has already sailed.

But thanks for getting to the heart of the real issue.

[bvar22]

42. For those who missed the Indy500,

Danika Patrick was highly competitive.
She captured the attention and fascination of all race fans!
She performed better and finished higher than ANY rookie in the history of Indy.
IIRC, she finished 4th but lead the race for a number of laps, and was in contention for the win the whole way.
No one who watched the race could doubt that she IS a highly skilled professional and a serious competitor!

[bloom]

52. My (freeper) brother who went to the 500

seemed to be bothered by her success.

He was determined to find fault with her and he made some comment about her getting a good car having something to do with it. If the teams had kept all of the good cars for the men - she wouldn't have done as well. See how that works.

That is what Eccelstone would want.

Patrick said something about a week before the Grand Prix fiasco that if she had a good car/the right team - she would consider F1.

(And by the way - the Grand Prix at Indy didn't just follow the oval track - they have a modified track that goes through the infield - used one (or more) of turns).

[bvar22]

54. People who are insecure about their "manhood",

will try to find ways to keep women in their place.

These will usually be premature ejaculators or me with substandard equipment who haven't found other ways to satisfy a woman.

[bloom]

56. It sounds like Ecclestone

was saying to Patrick if you think about racing Formula One - I'm going to piss on your parade.

Maybe it would take the shareholders demanding his ouster - he sounds a bit overripe->


From
December 06, 2004

Ecclestone: facing challenge from shareholders.

"BERNIE ECCLESTONE will learn today if he can hang on to control of the Formula One empire he has ruled for more than 20 years. The first of a flurry of court rulings will precede more confrontation with team bosses amid warnings that the sport is in danger of imploding.

A judge is expected to give his verdict this afternoon on the action brought by three German banks challenging Ecclestone’s supremacy over Formula One. A victory for Lehman Brothers, Bayrische Landesbank and JPMorgan, which own 75 per cent of the sport’s commercial business, will signal a shift in power from Ecclestone’s dictatorship and labyrinthine deals to a new era of compromise and financial transparency."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5923-1390602,00.html

[theboss]

43. NASCAR is not Formula One is not IndyCar

Don't confuse them.

[confludemocrat]

47. I guess she/he meant NASCAR Boss-like F1 Boss

Which is kind of an insult to the NASCAR Boss because, he woud never say such a thing, I suppose.

[ohio_liberal]

64. The France family

is working very hard on a diversity program to promote minority and women drivers. So no, I doubt Bill France would say such a thing.

[FizzFuzz]

48. women are people not appliances. Don't confuse them.

now why don't you get with the program, viz. this thread addresses a sexist boor's prejudiced devaluation of a professional racer.

The corollary theme here is the shocking inability of many people to acknowledge sexism.

Tertiary theme: inability of some people to read for understanding.

[Gelliebeans]

44. Just because this asshole Ecclestone

has an IQ of a domestic appliance himself doesn't mean he gets to project his sexist belligerent vile views of women on the public.

He is a piece of shit, plain and simple.

I want a public apology NOW.

[FizzFuzz]

50. thank you! and if it were a racial slur, the general response would be

more like this!!

I try to stay reasonable for the sake of discussion, but the truth is, it really pisses me off the way these statements that aren't even subtle or easy to miss insults against women get skimmed right over by a number of men.

[Gelliebeans]

51. fizzfuzz

I feel your pain. I hope a lightbulb went off somewhere.

[eissa]

45. I'm confused too

Not all domestic appliances are white; I like stainless steel -- should I be dressing in silver?

[smirkymonkey]

61. Yes, maybe she could wear a nice avocado color or something.

There are so many colors for women/appliances these days. Look how far we've come!

:sarcasm:

[bullwinkle428]

57. Ecclestone is such a worthless piece of crap,

he couldn't even broker some kind of deal to prevent last weekend's race from turning into a complete farce...a "trave-shamockery", if you will. For those that didn't see the news, there was a problem with the Michelin tires that were on 14 of the 20 qualified cars, which could potentially have caused a catastrophic accident for any of them. There were discussions about modifying the most dangerous part of the track to greatly reduce the chance of that happening, but Bernie the jackoff couldn't make it work out. As a result, those drivers (rightfully) chose not to race, leaving only 6 cars on the track, 2 of which were ridiculously faster than the remaining 4, and since there exist team orders within each two-car team, it bascially turned into a parade. Fans littered the track with debris as the boos rained down from the stands! F1 has a very small following within the U.S., and officials have talked for years about how crucial it is to grow the sport in America!

[ohio_liberal]

65. Ecclestone is a piece of shit

Every woman on the planet should boycott F1 until this asshat apologizes. Fuck him and F1.

I don't particularly care for Danica Patrick. Yep, she's talented but there are so many talented women who have worked so hard to get into a big racing series and couldn't get there because they aren't "cute" enough for big dollar sponsors. Ms. Patrick gets the high dollar ride because she's cute and marketable and showed her butt crack in FHM magazine. Add to that she takes very public whacks in the press at other female drivers and it makes me not like her all that much. But I wish her well and hope she grows up a little bit.