Dealing with bigotry...

[Violet_Crumble]

Has anyone else met people who spend large amounts of time complaining about bigotry against one particular group, but who either don't care or deny things are bigotry when aimed at other groups? How do you handle those sort of folk without losing respect for them? I've heard the excuse that it's only natural that people will be more focused on the bigotry that affects them personally, but that doesn't explain some of what I encounter. I'm a woman and of course I'm sensitive when it comes to sexism, but not to the exclusion of everything else. There's no way I'd complain about discrimination against women and then turn round and compliment someone who's bigoted against another group when they launch a vicious tirade against that group. As far as I'm concerned, there's no bigotry that's better than the rest, and I really don't understand why some people get so focused on pointing out everything they see as being bigoted against one group that they ignore or even worse participate in bigotry against other groups...

Violet...

[knowbody0]

1. you end up being bigotted

against bigotted people..........people hate what they fear. i feel sorry for frightened people. i am an Irish Indian woman. the irish half hate the indian half. it is all so senseless, and an absolute waste of time.

[baron j]

2. Some people, hopefully, will mellow, and or become more

enlightened, compassionate, thoughtful, or receptive about other people, with time. Some, are probably hopeless. If you are forced to be around this sort, calmly explain that you are offended or frustrated by his or her beliefs, and it doesn't mean that you hate that person. If you can influence their perception, teach them compassion, pat yourself on the back. If not, if he or she is immutable, or gets worse, refuse to communicate in a friendly or casual way. It'll all be business-like from here on out.

[Violet_Crumble]

3. The problem is I don't really see the sort I described as being bigots...

They're not the ones making the bigoted comments about whatever group it is that they don't give a toss about - they're the ones praising the bigoted comments that would have them shrieking to high heaven if it was aimed at the one single group they choose to focus on. And it's not like I don't think some of them need compassion because they've obviously got it when it comes to the one group they decide to champion. It's as though they think that speaking out against other bigotry when they see it with half the intensity they do already will somehow negate their attempts to combat the bigotry they do point out, and their fear is what keeps it all going...

When it comes to bigotry itself, I'm not so generous. I tend to pull myself away from the ones making bigoted comments if the comments become a habit with them and there's no remorse or understanding of why what they're saying is wrong...

Violet...

[baron j]

4. I'm not sure I see the difference between making bigoted comments,

and praising or not taking issue with bigoted comments towards a group that isn't his or her "pet" concern. Hate is hate, no matter how you slice it. And I don't think there is a hierarchy of bigotry. Such as, bigotry toward this particular group isn't as bad as bigotry toward another. Like I said, you could attempt to teach or guide these people, or remove yourself from those uncomfortable situations. Too many people allow themselves to grow accustomed to an unreasonable or hurtful situation. Or perhaps these people need more worldly experience.

For example, if someone discounted bigotry, toward, say, an Asian-American, this someone could learn from getting to know an Asian-American, come to value this person as a friend or an acquaintance, and then come to an understanding, somewhat, of what it's like to be Asian-American.

I'd probably need more specifics as to what group these people aren't empathizing with...

[Violet_Crumble]

6. No, I guess there's not much when I think about it..

Fear and ignorance are at the roots of both reactions, and praising bigotry aimed at one group while decrying it aimed at another not only displays double standards, but enables bigotry...

Probably the two instances I've really seen this happen in is *gasp* with a few feminists I've encountered who get so caught up in pointing out every thing they think is sexist that they end up lashing out against men, no matter how much of a feminist the man is. The other group is those who decry anti-semitism but then turn around and not only don't speak out when they see bigotry aimed at Arabs, but in a few unfortunate cases encourage those making the bigoted comments to keep on going...

Violet...

[baron j]

7. Ah, I see.

Your examples clarify the matter. Tunnel vision. Most people are frightfully selfish. Can't see the "we" from "me". Though, in any circumstance when you are dealing with another person, it can't be anything but "we". I would imagine someone who isn't able to see things from different perspectives is merely pretending to be supportive of the one particular angle merely for vanity, or to impress someone else, not from a true conviction and desire to stand up for the oppressed and those suffering from prejudice.

[Violet_Crumble]

10. Exactly...

I would imagine someone who isn't able to see things from different perspectives is merely pretending to be supportive of the one particular angle merely for vanity, or to impress someone else, not from a true conviction and desire to stand up for the oppressed and those suffering from prejudice.

That's generally how I see it too, though sometimes I think there is a true conviction and desire to stand up for the oppressed as long as it's only their oppressed that get attention. Any attention given to other oppressed people take away from their oppressed people and they see that as dangerous, I guess. That's why in both the examples I gave, it's common to see a small number of people claiming just about everything under the sun is bigotry when it's directed at one group, but then going to great lengths to try to explain why very similar sentiments aimed at other groups aren't bigotry...

Violet...

[Behind the Aegis]

5. The world today

Has anyone else met people who spend large amounts of time complaining about bigotry against one particular group, but who either don't care or deny things are bigotry when aimed at other groups? How do you handle those sort of folk without losing respect for them? I've heard the excuse that it's only natural that people will be more focused on the bigotry that affects them personally, but that doesn't explain some of what I encounter. I'm a woman and of course I'm sensitive when it comes to sexism, but not to the exclusion of everything else.

I meet them all the time! Some even claim to be liberals or progressives. As a gay, pagan, Southern, Jew…and short to boot…there is much bigotry out there. However, there is a difference between bigotry and prejudice. We are all prejudiced in some form or fashion. We have to be, to some extent. However, no one needs to be bigoted.

Just because someone doesn’t pursue bigotry of other groups, does not make them bigots. If someone denies bigotry is aimed at a certain group, it may only be because the person cannot see it because they are not part of said group or they don’t understand why it is bigoted. Examples I could use are: gays should have civil unions, marriage is a heterosexual tradition; Jews are responsible for 9-11 or are more loyal to Israel than their native land, Witchcraft and Satanism are one in the same…I could go on.

However, it is important not to confuse bigotry with focus. It is a natural tendency, not an excuse, to be more aware of bigotry focused at your own identity. I am a feminist, but I am still a male, so there are some bigoted/misogynist things that might slip by me, because I am not a woman. Sometimes that (missing bigotry/discrimination) can be seen as bigoted, when in actuality it is not. Education is the key.

There's no way I'd complain about discrimination against women and then turn round and compliment someone who's bigoted against another group when they launch a vicious tirade against that group. As far as I'm concerned, there's no bigotry that's better than the rest, and I really don't understand why some people get so focused on pointing out everything they see as being bigoted against one group that they ignore or even worse participate in bigotry against other groups...

Well, if you “turned around and complimented” someone who was bigoted, that might indicate lack of education about the situation or your own buried prejudices. However, there is nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone on one topic, but agreeing on another. It is a matter of nuance. An example: I am anti-death penalty, but pro-gay rights. So, if someone is anti-death penalty and anti-gay rights, should I avoid them because they don’t totally agree? No. However, if they “hate” gays, then, even though we agree on the death penalty, the “hate” card trumps it.

I agree that no “bigotry is better than another,” however, some are more prevalent, and to ignore that, in of itself, can be problematic. I see it all the time with vicious lies and conspiracy theories based in innuendo and falsehoods, but some “go along” because it is the “PC” thing to do. There may be an area of a group that you just don’t see “eye to eye” on, but that doesn’t mean you are a bigot or hate them. Sometimes, the ones who claim to be non-bigoted toward one group, actually are, and just can’t see it. Education, as I said before, is the key.

[Violet_Crumble]

8. BTA! Great to see you up here!

How've you been lately? :hi:

Yes, I meet them all the time too. Thankfully more online than in real life and online I can be a lot more patient than in real life...

I'm talking about bigotry, not prejudice...

If someone denies bigotry is aimed at a particular group, then it's a safe bet that bigotry is the reason. And if someone who denies bigotry is aimed at one group, but insists it's bigotry when it's aimed at another group, then I don't really think that 'not understanding' is an excuse. Being part of any group that's the target of bigotry should make us understand what it is when it's aimed at another group. And in the instances I've been thinking of, they not only deny bigotry is aimed at other groups, but openly praise and agree with people who make bigoted comments against other groups...

I know there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone on one topic and agreeing on others. But the example you gave only involved one thing where opposition could be rooted in bigotry, and that was being opposed to gay unions. Opposition to or support of the death penalty isn't something that generally involves bigotry...

And I'm not even talking about some forms of bigotry being more prevalent than others. That stands to reason. What I've been talking about is the complete denial when bigotry against another group is shoved in someone's face...


What I suspect is at play is that some people get so wound up over what they see as bigotry towards the group they're focused on that they end up seeing bigotry everywhere and in everyone who just isn't seeing it everywhere and in everyone as well. And in that overwhelming rush to see bigotry everywhere they just don't have the interest in seeing the real thing when it's right there in front of them. And sometimes I wonder if the encouragement and praise isn't a bit like a little kid at school who sucks up to the school bully so for a change he won't get bashed up and his lunch stolen...

btw, those tables you do in yr posts are awesome looking and I'm jealous but way too lazy to do them myself...

Violet...

[Colorado Blue]

9. "it is important not to confuse bigotry with focus"

I think that's an important statement.

I don't think people can assume that lack of focus on certain issues or people, makes a person bigoted against those issues or people.

Also, projection can be a dangerous thing. One probably shouldn't assume that another is bigoted against one group simply because he or she is standing up hard for a particular cause.

Often, a hard stand is taken BECAUSE prejudice has been directed at that cause. So there may appear to be overreaction. One saw this a few decades ago in Black Power movements. An assertion of pride was needed to balance centuries of oppression. That doesn't necessarily translate into bigotry against Caucasians.

For example, simply because a person stands up against antisemitism doesn't make them anti-Arab. Being concerned with manifestations of antisemitism in certain communities doesn't mean being bigoted against that community - just with those who promote prejudice.

Generally, it's just a few people who are promoting bad ideas, like the KKK or the Nazis. But they can be very, very dangerous. So, being aware that the KKK promotes bigotry against black people in the South, doesn't make a person bigoted against Southerners.

And to the degree that we are concerned with civil rights, we must NOT accept as normal or desirable, groups that promote bigotry and we MUST fight it when we see it.

Similarly, concerning the conspiracy theories mentioned above, skepticism about these theories and distaste for people who accuse certain groups of starting wars, for example, doesn't make a person a "bush-bot". It means that person suspects bigotry as a motive and fighting bigotry is fundamental to a democratic system of government.

Mob rule is a terrible thing, something to be feared. It's the dark side of democracy, rule of the many. That's why a stringent sense of fair play and respect for minorities is vital to a system like ours.

In the case of Jewish people, accusations of dual agency have been an excuse to persecute them for centuries. That's why these conspiracy theories are so distasteful and so dangerous, and fighting them doesn't at all make a person a rightwinger. It makes them a true democrat.

Indeed, the wise person will attempt to find the best solutions for ALL people, and try to see the whole as well as the parts.

We're all interconnected, after all. A plant can't exist without its pollinators, the moth can't live without the food plant. We're all part of one grand design.