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Folks, It's MINUTES, not Memo

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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 07:28 AM
Original message
Folks, It's MINUTES, not Memo
Democrats in congress and progressive pundits need to take a page from the Repuke/neo-con playbook. I am shocked to see people, even on this site, refer to this as the Downing Street Memo! :wtf:

It's the Downing Street Minutes!!

Think "Death Tax". We all know that this is the "Estate Tax", and that it only affects people that have more than $2.5 Million in assets when they kick the bucket. But....Every Republican from the pResident, to the local school board candidate, to the dog-catcher, has repeated, ad nauseum, the term "death tax". Now you even have the New York Times running articles and calling it the "death tax".

Say it with me...

Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes,
Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes, Minutes
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. You're a bit late with your little correction...it's already ingrained.
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GiovanniC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. That's Very True
"Memo" has a connotation of not being very official. Government memos get circulated all the time, with varying levels of credibility and importance.

"Minutes" are, by their very definition, official records of government activities and are considered important legal documents.

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Stampy52 Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
3. news you can use
Memo is short for memorandum. Minutes is a form of memorandum. The correct term for the downingstreet memo is ... *gasp* memo.

Is it important to properly address the heightened credible of officially transcribed "minutes"? yes, absolutely. Is it important to debunk the "4th or 5th hand" line of bull coming from the right? You betcha. But as someone else, the first reply, has already beat me to it, we are over a month into the game and it is memo, not minutes.

the downing street "minutes" does not exist in the news.

really, this is not worth expending energy over. do not fight for this.
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GiovanniC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Well...
Memorandum: mem·o·ran·dum (n.)
A usually informal written communication


Minutes: min·utes (n.)
An official record of the proceedings of a meeting.



While it is technically correct to refer to official meeting minutes as a memorandum, there is quite a big distinction between the primary definitions of these two terms. Semantics are important in politics. "Memo" implies something informal, "minutes" implies an official record. I think it's an important distinction. Most people haven't heard of the "Downing Street Memo" OR "Downing Street Minutes", so it is not too late to take control of the semantical meme.

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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. Exactly Correct!!!
Edited on Fri Jun-03-05 10:54 AM by maxrandb
GionanniC wrote; "Semantics are important in politics".

You ask a $25K a year American living in a 2 bedroom apartment what he think of the "estate tax", and he might say, (as JFK did) "from those that have much, much is required". And he might support a reasonable tax on the filthy rich.

You ask that same American what he thinks of the "death tax" and 9 times out of 10 he's going to say; "death tax??, well that doesn't sound right, I'm against it".

Yes, semantic and language (and on edit, proper spelling) is extremely important. Think "Patriot" Act, "No Child Left Behind" Act, "Clear Sky's" Act.

We get nowhere if we don't take the language back from those that have "bastardized" it.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Hi Stampy52!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. I am at a loss to understand
Edited on Fri Jun-03-05 04:17 PM by Karenina
a post intended to discourage people from using PRECISE LANGUAGE. It IS true that *corp media will use "memo." However, when WE use the word "MINUTES" clarifying the distinction becomes the FIRST TALKING POINT. And THAT is a GOOD THING!

DOWNING STREET MINUTES - OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT MINUTES OF AN OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT MEETING


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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. Does anyone have a copy of the Downing Street Minutes.....
...so that we can judge for ourselves as to whether these are actual minutes of a meeting/conversation or a memorandum that was a response or an announcement of some sort.

Here is an example of "Minutes"

http://www.feani.org/ESOEPE/PSC/110501/Minutes.htm


Now this is an example of a "Memorandum"

http://www.daylighting.org/forumnotes0804final.pdf


Now, compare these to the Downing Street document that everyone is calling a memo and being corrected on as minutes and let us judge for ourselves.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. Judge for yourselves as to what type of document this is....
<snip>
http://www.startribune.com/stories/562/5436890.html

POSTED IN FULL AS THE DOCUMENT IS NOW IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.

Last update: June 2, 2005 at 7:16 PM
Secret no more: Downing Street memo

Published June 3, 2005

SECRET AND STRICTLY PERSONAL -- UK EYES ONLY

DAVID MANNING

From: Matthew Rycroft

Date: 23 July 2002

S 195 /02

cc: Defence Secretary, Foreign Secretary, Attorney-General, Sir Richard Wilson, John Scarlett, Francis Richards, CDS, C, Jonathan Powell, Sally Morgan, Alastair Campbell

IRAQ: PRIME MINISTER'S MEETING, 23 JULY

Copy addressees and you met the Prime Minister on 23 July to discuss Iraq. This record is extremely sensitive. No further copies should be made. It should be shown only to those with a genuine need to know its contents. John Scarlett summarised the intelligence and latest JIC assessment. Saddam's regime was tough and based on extreme fear. The only way to overthrow it was likely to be by massive military action. Saddam was worried and expected an attack, probably by air and land, but he was not convinced that it would be immediate or overwhelming. His regime expected their neighbours to line up with the U.S. Saddam knew that regular army morale was poor. Real support for Saddam among the public was probably narrowly based.

C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.

CDS said that military planners would brief CENTCOM on 1-2 August, Rumsfeld on 3 August and Bush on 4 August.

The two broad U.S. options were:

(a) Generated Start. A slow build-up of 250,000 U.S. troops, a short (72 hour) air campaign, then a move up to Baghdad from the south. Lead time of 90 days (30 days preparation plus 60 days deployment to Kuwait).

(b) Running Start. U.S. forces already in theatre (3 x 6,000), continuous air campaign, initiated by an Iraqi casus belli. Total lead time of 60 days with the air campaign beginning even earlier. A hazardous option.

The U.S. saw the UK (and Kuwait) as essential, with basing in Diego Garcia and Cyprus critical for either option. Turkey and other Gulf states were also important, but less vital. The three main options for UK involvement were:

(i) Basing in Diego Garcia and Cyprus, plus three SF squadrons.

(ii) As above, with maritime and air assets in addition.

(iii) As above, plus a land contribution of up to 40,000, perhaps with a discrete role in Northern Iraq entering from Turkey, tying down two Iraqi divisions.

The Defence Secretary said that the U.S. had already begun "spikes of activity" to put pressure on the regime. No decisions had been taken, but he thought the most likely timing in U.S. minds for military action to begin was January, with the timeline beginning 30 days before the U.S. congressional elections.

The Foreign Secretary said he would discuss this with Colin Powell this week. It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the UN weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force.

The Attorney-General said that the desire for regime change was not a legal base for military action. There were three possible legal bases: self-defence, humanitarian intervention, or UNSC authorisation. The first and second could not be the base in this case. Relying on UNSCR 1205 of three years ago would be difficult. The situation might of course change.

The Prime Minister said that it would make a big difference politically and legally if Saddam refused to allow in the UN inspectors. Regime change and WMD were linked in the sense that it was the regime that was producing the WMD. There were different strategies for dealing with Libya and Iran. If the political context were right, people would support regime change. The two key issues were whether the military plan worked and whether we had the political strategy to give the military plan the space to work.

On the first, CDS said that we did not know yet if the U.S. battleplan was workable. The military were continuing to ask lots of questions. For instance, what were the consequences, if Saddam used WMD on day one, or if Baghdad did not collapse and urban warfighting began? You said that Saddam could also use his WMD on Kuwait. Or on Israel, added the Defence Secretary.

The Foreign Secretary thought the U.S. would not go ahead with a military plan unless convinced that it was a winning strategy. On this, U.S. and UK interests converged. But on the political strategy, there could be U.S./UK differences. Despite U.S. resistance, we should explore discreetly the ultimatum. Saddam would continue to play hard-ball with the UN.

John Scarlett assessed that Saddam would allow the inspectors back in only when he thought the threat of military action was real.

The Defence Secretary said that if the Prime Minister wanted UK military involvement, he would need to decide this early. He cautioned that many in the U.S. did not think it worth going down the ultimatum route. It would be important for the Prime Minister to set out the political context to Bush.

Conclusions:

(a) We should work on the assumption that the UK would take part in any military action. But we needed a fuller picture of U.S. planning before we could take any firm decisions. CDS should tell the U.S. military that we were considering a range of options.

(b) The Prime Minister would revert on the question of whether funds could be spent in preparation for this operation.

(c) CDS would send the Prime Minister full details of the proposed military campaign and possible UK contributions by the end of the week.

(d) The Foreign Secretary would send the Prime Minister the background on the UN inspectors, and discreetly work up the ultimatum to Saddam.

He would also send the Prime Minister advice on the positions of countries in the region especially Turkey, and of the key EU member states.

(e) John Scarlett would send the Prime Minister a full intelligence update.

(f) We must not ignore the legal issues: the Attorney-General would consider legal advice with FCO/MOD legal advisers.

(I have written separately to commission this follow-up work.)

MATTHEW RYCROFT
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Reads like MINUTES of a meeting to me...
WHO.SAID.WHAT. Conclusions... :freak:

DOWNING STREET MINUTES - OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT MINUTES OF AN OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT MEETING


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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
5. Minutes
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Freedomfried Donating Member (684 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
6. Beating a dead horse
e0m
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. peddle it somewhere else
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. Welcome to DU!
Good luck!

:D

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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
8. I like "The Downing Memorandum"
although my brother pointed out it makes it sound like a Robert Ludlum novel.
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wolfgirl Donating Member (950 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
9. Yes...
repeat it over and over and over again....Minutes of an official meeting!!!
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earthside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
11. Doesn't Matter.
Don't get so obsessed with "framing" that you miss the forest for the trees. While taking control of the message is hard for progressives to do, the other big mistake we too often make is quibbling over relatively unimportant details.

The "Downing Street Memo" will have impact when its content is communicated to the public and understood. And that is our job right now - publicize the importance of this document.

Spending time trying to rename the 'memo' only diffuses the critical efforts to broadcast its existence. In fact, you will only confuse the media, politicians, and the public by making a big deal over 'memo' or 'minutes'.

So my advice: The "Downing Street Memo" is about Bush's LIE to the world.

Say it with me ...

The "Downing Street Memo" is about Bush's LIE to the world.
The "Downing Street Memo" is about Bush's LIE to the world.
The "Downing Street Memo" is about Bush's LIE to the world.
The "Downing Street Memo" is about Bush's LIE to the world.
The "Downing Street Memo" is about Bush's LIE to the world.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
InternalDialogue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. He sent you a dictionery to prove a point? n/t
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
14. The nation uses the words that Rove wants it to
Any TV talking head calling it "minutes" will be reprimanded, fired, or worse.
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La Coliniere Donating Member (581 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
18. Democrats need to get better at..
framing the debate. New or renamed words, phrases and concepts which represent the progressive POV seem to take forever to catch on. Lakoff's analysis and recommendations should be instructive. So many know this to be true. Wish we had a left wing echo chamber more vast than what we presently have to work with.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. Co-Founder of AfterDowningStreet.org on C-SPAN!!!!
Co-Founder of AfterDowningStreet.org on C-SPAN 7:45 - 8:30 a.m. EST Sat.


Media: We'll Be on C-SPAN Saturday Morning!
Posted by: downing on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 01:44 PM 31 Reads
From After Downing Street Dot Org
Watch the Washington Journal on C-Span from 7:45 - 8:30 a.m. ET Saturday June 4 for AfterDowningStreet.org Co-Founder Steve Cobble. And phone in to have your say!

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/


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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-05 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
23. Downing Street Minutes
Downing Street Minutes

Downing Street Minutes

Downing Street Minutes

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