At a Pro-Clark meeting, Clark's son said today....

[Bread and Circus]

that a week ago Wesley Clark was uncertain of joining the
race but what pushed him over the top was that
he decided to join the race for us, the people
of the Draft Clark Movement (and I assume for the people
of America). At least that is what one witness of his
son's speech reported in a heartfelt letter to one of our groups.

I hope people who accuse Clark's run of being a Clinton
or DLC hack-job really take a good look at what you
are saying, because it is nasty, mean, spiteful, and untrue.

I thought the Democratic party was the party of fairness,
open-mindedness, justice, prosperity, peace, honesty, and love.
That's my party anyway.

I am proud of what Clark has done, what he has said, and
what he stands for. He is seeking the presidency for me
(and you) and I go to see that he has it.

[unfrigginreal]

1. And he's said absolutely nothing so far!

I wish you luck familydoctor, I was even a potential Clark supporter recently, but he's surely let down a bunch of folks with his pro-war stance. Yeah, it's a nuanced pro-war stance but that's part of the point.

[Donna Zen]

4. It's time to read Josh Marshall

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/

But what about what Dean said on Face The Nation a couple weeks before the war resolution vote, when asked what the president would have to do to prove that there was an immediate threat justifying war ...

I don't think he really has to prove anything. I think that most Americans, including myself, will take the president's word for it. But the president has never said that Saddam has the capability of striking the United States with atomic or biological weapons any time in the immediate future.

And please read Marshall's final note to all of us.

[clar]

2. Look,

I like what I've seen of Clark, but it's widely known that the Clintons are involved with Wes Clark's run. It's no secret. There have been dozens of stories in the press about it. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a Clinton DLC hack job, but some very interesting stories are being leaked.

[otohara]

5. I'll Imply The DLC

They don't much like the man who is ahead in the polls. Bill & Hill are dedicated DLC'ers. Let's not be naive

[Julien Sorel]

6. What's wrong with the Clintons?

There's some kind of disconnect here. If the Clintons are somehow the wrong kind of Democrat, what is the right kind of Democrat?

[tjdee]

14. Howard Dean, duh!

Come on BillyBunter, you walked right into that.

[Kahuna]

41. Dean is self-proclaimed, best at everything.

I prefer Clark's humility.

I'll bet you one thing. Clark will give a credible explanation for his, "flip flop." (Saying that he would probably have voted for it was the flip flop part, not saying that he wouldn't) without wildly denying it and blaming others. I look forward to hearing his explanation and have nothing else to say on the matter until I hear an explanation from his own lips.

[otohara]

20. Not Much

they were pretty perfect. But the DLC wants the democratic party to move more to the right. Might have been OK in 92, but the thought of the dems shifting more to the right than they already did is frightening.

Read my post below and check out the links.

[Julien Sorel]

33. Let's assume your link destroys the DLC.

Let's further assume that the Clintons and the DLC are more or less in lockstep. I still want to know who is the 'right' kind of Democrat. Because I don't see one out there. I see Kucinich polling 2% and ready to fold his tent; Sharpton, the other old school liberal is also polling poorly -- the old school liberals are being rejected by the country. Who's left? Dean? He's just about as conservative as Lieberman, the DLC poster boy. Edwards? Again, weak at the polls, and a centrist who is a DLC member. Kerry is a little more liberal than the rest, but he's also a DLC member, and he voted for the war (which Clinton also supported, by the way), which makes him the anti-Christ for too many. So who's left? What Democratic politician is the ideal for this age?

[rman]

38. you mean you don't know Clinton is middle of the road, and

there's plenty of room on the left side of the road?
You never heard of the phenomena of Democrat In Name Only (DINO)?

[unfrigginreal]

11. Here's where you and I differ clar!

I am a strong Clintonite...I am also a strong Deaniac!

I don't for one minute believe the press when they claim that Clinton is solely supporting Clark. My man Clinton will be out on the campaign trail igniting Democrats for Dean when he wins the primaries.

[janx]

22. I don't believe that Clinton is solely supporting Clark either.

It's probably a combination of things.

I thought at one point that the DLC was behind Clark, and I think it's possible some of them are, but I no longer believe that constitutes his sole or even major support.

[Kahuna]

49. I don't believe it either. Clinton is pragmatic...

We can't afford to and shouldn't put all of our eggs in one basket.

I believe that Clinton knows in his heart that a nominee with zero national security credentials from a liberal state in the northeast has zero chance of defeating bushco. They put their hopes in Kerry but Kerry is not catching on the way they had hoped. Supporting a Clark run is just a way of maximizing our chances. As the defacto political leader of our party I'm appreciative for any and everything he can do to help us.

[tjdee]

3. Grassroots=Dean. Period.

Apparently, no one else is allowed to have grassroots supporters unless they are copying Dean, want to be Dean, are jealous of Dean...you get the picture.

I've raised this point before as well. There *was* a draft Clark movement, which a number of DUers were part of--and God forbid, people OFFLINE. All those people were not DLC operatives.

And really, so WHAT if Bill Clinton likes Clark? I like him too, for pete's sake! If I were wealthy and influential, I'd try to talk up a candidate I like.... is Clark to be embarrassed because he knows influential people, and horror of horrors, they LIKE HIM??

I don't know why people are acting like this is some dark :tinfoilhat: moment in the Democratic party.

[Dookus]

7. I don't understand how...

Clinton's support has become a bad thing here on DU. Wasn't the whole site founded after Gore (who had Clinton's support) was robbed?

It may be outre, but I still like clinton.

[tjdee]

9. So do I. Not to mention he WINS.

If you're hitching your wagon to somebody, Bill Clinton is an excellent choice.

And some of this is coming from a few Dean supporters, which I don't get.

Why don't they like Clinton, if they like Dean? Aren't they both centrists?

I don't know when it became 'cool' around here to not like Clinton to the level I'm seeing here lately.

[Eloriel]

26. I don't like Clinton interfering

in the primary process. I don't like him trying to choose the nominee.

There are a lot of things I don't like about Clinton, but they needn't be rehashed here, except I'll say I didn't like HIS choice of McAuliffe to run the DNC. And many other things -- I'll just reiterate that popular old line: Clinton is the only Republican I ever voted for.

As for the primaries: let the people choose. If Clark's entrance was completely without Clinton's involvement and help, then fine. But that's not what's being reported, AND there are reportedly a gob of former Clintonites signing on to his campaign. Not likely they did that without the Big Dog's "encouragement."

It's just not his place to stage manage this process, not with 9 other candidates in the race.

Eloriel

[JI7]

27. there will be a vote

for candidates. if the candidate with the most or plurality of votes is wes clark then that means there were people other than clinton who voted for him. those people's votes count also. same goes for every other candidate. just because clintons may want clark doesn't disqaulify the other votes. it's not like clinton is trying to end the primary.

[Kahuna]

42. Right. Clinton only gets one vote just like the rest of us.

The bigwigs already denied me the opportunity to have the candidate of my choice. My choice was Al Gore. I was stunned and broken-hearted when he decided not to run.

We, the people chose Clark. Clinton just heard us and helped to pave the way for a political, homeboy novice. There is nothing wrong with that. It's up to Clark and his supporters now.

[Dookus]

30. And you are capable...

of honestly saying that if Clinton endorsed Dean tomorrow, you wouldn't be happy about it?

[Kahuna]

44. Imagine the gloating that would have been going on..

if Clinton endorsed or helped one of the other candidates.

[Kahuna]

50. If I'm not mistaken. You didn't like either Clinton or Gore.

And you supported Nader in the last election. Am I right?

I'm just putting that out there so that everyone on this thread knows your leanings and that you have always been a harsh critic of our best Democratic leaders. Namely, Clinton and Gore.

[NNN0LHI]

57. This thread was really moving for a while. What happened I wonder? n/t

[TacticalPeek]

60. "Clinton is the only Republican I ever voted for"

Honestly curious, please don't take offense, but who was the last 'true Democrat' winning presidential candidate you voted for?

[Girlfriday]

16. I agree!

I haven't been on this site long, but I have noticed a definite anti-Clinton thing and I resent it. We had eight years of that sh*t with the repugs. Enough!!!

I would direct you to read Sidney Blumenthal's book on the Clinton Whitehouse: The Clinton Wars. Very enlightening. It was an uphill struggle all the way, and he still accomplished so much. For God's sake, even the Dems attacked him! I say lay off the Clintons - Please!

[newsjunkie]

61. AMEN

:toast:

[TacticalPeek]

64. Cool pic of the best Dem prez since FDR!

:kick:

[BeachBuckeye]

66. And Amen!!!

To attack Bill Clinton is to deny that he had a successful presidency and that just isn't reality. Bill Clinton's accomplishments are extraordinary and I'm damned proud to have voted for him.

[otohara]

19. Read This Nasty Column "Why Gore Lost" By DLC Founder

Al Gore, the self-styled
environmental candidate in the 2000 Presidential election, lost his
bid for the White House because he campaigned on an outdated
"populist" platform that was too liberal for most Americans,
according to a new report drafted by the Democratic Leadership
Council.

The report, titled "Why Gore Lost, And How Democrats Can Come Back,"
was unveiled this morning by Democratic Leadership Council (DLC)
officials at a news conference at the National Press Club in
Washington. The DLC's 40 page report concludes that the Democratic
Party must move towards the political right - towards the
Republicans - if it wants to regain control of Congress in 2002 and
the White House in 2004.

http://civic.net/civic-values.archive/200101/msg00169.html

Then read how even Al Gore isn't happy with the DLC

http://www.dailykos.com/archives/003730.html

[VolcanoJen]

31. It's not the most popular view around here, but...

... I still like Clinton, too. And in my opinion, Clinton was a masterful politician, the best that my generation's seen thus far, who taught Democrats how to win national elections, and how to be proud of themselves again, regardless of the attempts of the wingnuts to bring him, and us, down.

If he's involved with the Clark campaign, in the sense of encouraging his entry into the race and helping him assemble a competent staff then I think that's a positive for Clark. The Clintons are winners, and if they can help a Democrat win the White House, then I'm all for it.

I will add one caveat to that though... I do find it slightly inappropriate for Bill Clinton to be making a de facto endorsement of a candidate at this time, and I hope he plans to share his vision and strategy with the other frontrunners. If he's only guilty of nudging Clark into the race, then I see no harm done.

[Dookus]

32. I haven't seen anything....

to indicate an official Clinton endorsement. All we know is that he referred to Clark as a star, and that some of his former staff are now working for Clark.

I have to believe that both Clintons are savvy enough to wait until the clear winner is determined, and then throw all their support to that person.

[Kahuna]

52. Actually, Clinton was very popular around here until..

Dean and Kucinich voters began to suspect that Clinton was advising Clark.

[clar]

51. Look,

If the Clintons and others are manipulating matters in order to stop Dean, or for any other reasons, that's disappointing, to say the least. I like Clinton to, but I have a fair amount of health skepticism about him too.

[Classical_Liberal]

10. There is no way to tell what type of people

advocated for Clark on DU. Most of the people who are doing it in public look DLC though.

[Classical_Liberal]

12. If he gets as much money from the grass roots as Dean I'll agree

but someone who is funded DLC corporate funders won't serve the grass roots, that is for damned sure. The Clintons couldn't serve Corporate America and the people and Corporate America funded a coup attempt against them. Why the hell do I want more of the same. Most of Bill's accomplishments as President were actually things repukes like. Nafta and draconian welfare reform.

[tjdee]

13. How do you know he won't?

How do you know where his money will come from?

How do you know who his supporters are?

Just because he has...gasp!...PROFESSIONALS working on his campaign!

As to your "the people coming out for him look DLC" or whatever...really? Like Michael Moore? Charlie Rangel? Thirteen members of the Texas state Congress? Etc. etc. etc.?

I think you're making a lot of assumptions here.

[Classical_Liberal]

17. Charles Rangel is a fairly conservative Dem

Moore endorces him as a candidate and wasn't sure he would vote for him. I have no problem with anyone running. I have no idea who the thirteen Texas State Reps are, but I hope they ain't dlc.

Also I said if, so that is an indication that I don't know he won't. but my support for Dean is based mostly on the fact that he gets his money from the grass roots, and not coportate America.

I think because of this Dean is going to be a bold and exciting Dem, who accomplishes Democratic goals and not just republican goals,and not just someone who surivives by the skin of his teeth like Clinton.

[knight_of_the_star]

36. Clark got money from grassroots

The Draft Wesley Clark website pulled together 1.08 million dollars from grassroots donations. This was all BEFORE he announced his run. I don't think that those 1.08 big ones were from the DLC or corporations.

[Dookus]

37. Wow...

Rangel a conservative Dem? Can you back that up with something?

on edit:

From the American Conservative Union, he's rated a 4 (out of 100)
http://www.acuratings.com/acu.cgi?ACT=3&STATE=NY&YEAR=2002

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. "Charley Rangel Is A Farly Conservative Dem"

Care to clarify


Charley Rangel has a lifetime ADA rating of 91%


http://adaction.org/ho00034.htm

Maybe what you meant to say is Charley Rangel is a very loyal Dem....


Charley Rangel is as old school liberal as they come....

[Kahuna]

46. Now Charlie Rangel is "conservative." God help us...

if you think Rangel is conservative. Rangel is as liberal as one can get and still win a mainstream election.

[tjdee]

68. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!

Charlie Rangel is a conservative!

John Kerry is Bush-lite!

Down is up!

Up is down!

Drink the Kool Aid!

[Kahuna]

45. You act like there can be only one "grassroots" movement.

There obviously is not. The "grassroots" supporters do no belong solely to Dean. Clark and Kucinich have grassroots supporters too.

[Donna Zen]

8. Thanks

I read what Clark's son wrote at the daily kos which essentially said the same thing. Actually, because he is an on line person, he seemed very aware of what was going on in these forums and the note ranged between sad and shocked.

Scoob Davis put together this:

Then Limbaugh hit that third point:


"I’ll tell you the most popular theory out there, and Clark is already being asked about it, he’s already saying 'no.' The big theory is that Wesley Clark is out there as Hillary’s sock puppet and that he’s going to end up being her vice presidential candidate -- that all this is to condition the American people to him -- to make the American people aware of him to get a big military guy, not a Vietnam veteran as the French looking, although Clark is. He is a Vietnam vet but he has more recent experience" (emphasis added).

"Most popular theory"?

According to whom?

The idea that Clark is anyone's puppet is outrageous and insulting.

http://www.americanpolitics.com/todaysdailycomment.html


Which begs the question: Is this DU or Limpblobs sock puppet?

[dkf]

15. I think its the opposite

Hillary is going to be Clark's VP.

[BeachBuckeye]

67. Hillary would NEVER be the Vice-President for ANYONE.

You're kidding, right?

[Marlie]

18. I was one of those who pleaded with Clark to get into the race..

I love Dean but I don't have faith he can beat Bush. Bush has
money, corruption, the media etc., behind him. It will take someone
who will capture the hearts of millions of Americans, conservatives,
independents as well as democrats. Most of us are very liberal here,
thus the love of Dean and Kucinich, who I believe are right - however
Bush absolutely cannot have a second term or all of us are as good
as dead. I believe Clark to be a good man who will do right by our
country. Why can't we just emphasize the good qualities of the
candidate we favor and knock off bashing the other Democratic
candidates? We're just like a bunch of Liebermans over here and it's
getting worse every day. We have to stick together to get rid of
Bush, not cut up our own candidates day after day.

[Classical_Liberal]

21. I don't think Clark changes any of those problems

Deans trackrecord is dead on, and Dean has excercised the best judgement of all the candidates. Dean hasn't ever said they hated us for our Democracy like Clark which is straight out of Tom Friedman's lexcon. I believe Dean can beat Bush, and will be loved by many American, although probably not the DLC. The War supporters will be more discredited as time goes by.

[Kahuna]

48. Dean has one major problem though...

even though Dean thinks having traveled to 50 countries gives him foreign policy experience (yes, he actually said that. I heard it with my own ears. The GOP will love to use that against him), he has zero foreign policy and national security experience.

Never in history has America thrown over a wartime president for a peacenik with zero military or national security experience. It just doesn't happen. So God help us democrats if Dean wins the nomination because it will ensure another four years for bush.

I can hear the naysayers saying...but but...the economy. More respondents say that the economy is the most important issue. My response. Then why did GENERAL Clark with zero domestic policy experience shoot to the top of the polls? Answer. Because everybody knows that presidents have hordes of economic advisors. No matter what the respondents say about the economy the fact is, Americans do not elect a wartime president with ZERO national security bonafides. No matter how you will it, it will not happen.

[Donna Zen]

55. Please back up your words:

Dean hasn't ever said they hated us for our Democracy like Clark


CL_Putting together your case is a fine thing, but "making-it" up as you go along, is just to much like a desperate bushco tactic. This entire premise of Dean being some "liberal" or anti-DLC saint is going way beyond the facts that are out there. Dean by his own admission is a centrist...fine, this is America and the general population of our country is further to the right than one would like to admit. In addition, Dean seems to be very willing to have made peace with those demon-spawn DLC and mentions Clinton often and with praise in his appearances...good move for Dean.

Now I've read quite a bit of Clark, mostly because I really hate seeing someone, anyone, lied about, and from some internal, personal mechanism feel compelled to post a correction. I have never posted anti-anybody in any of the threads because it is totally counter-productive and small minded.

A noted difference between liberal and conservative philosophy is the belief that all points of view must be considered as opposed to a fixed mind-set.

Backing up your position...Dean good...Clark DLC waterboy, is one thing, but to do so based on your opinion being passed off as fact is dishonest. Clark seems no more connected to the DLC than Dean. The DLC will promote its members, Lieberman, Edwards, and (a recent member) Kerry. Will Clark join the DLC at some point? How the hell should I know? Clark is friends with many people and the DLC is a magnet for southern politicans. The only I do know is the profile of the political landscape, and getting ANY Democrat elected is going to very difficult. Getting a Democrat elected after we have conducted this cyber pissing contest will make it harder.

[imhotep]

23. so his son is a fucking liar too

"the people" have always been Clark's last, if ever, concern.

[MoonRiver]

25. WHOA! That was completely over the top!

It's the kind of slimy statement I see on Repuke boards. SCARY! :scared:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. whoa

and from a guy with a Buddha avatar...

[NNN0LHI]

65. Are you on the right board pal? n/t

[Eloriel]

24. Sorry, chum

Whenever I decide to do something, there are usually several different reasons. Usually a main reason, but almost always several supporting reasons. I doubt Clark's decision is any different.

And are you DENYING that the Clintons encouraged him to run? It was reported in a bunch of places over several days. I heard Clinton back off from his tease about Hillary running, but hasn't bothered to deny that he encouraged Clark to run.

Eloriel

[JI7]

28. and what's wrong with that ?

it doesn't mean it's some conspiracy. maybe he just likes the guy. there were many people who encouraged clark to run.

[union_maid]

35. Clinton is the consummate politician

If he encouraged Clark to run it's because Clark can win, and win the kind of victory that will empower him and by extension empower Democrats in congress. Clinton didn't have that. He won with a pluralitly that permitted the opposition to announce that they'd block his efforts from day one and they did. It's a wonder that he got anything done, but he did. I'm supporting Clark because I believe he'd win and win with the kind of majority that would pull the whole country a little bit left before he did one thing. When a Democrat is elected, things change before he even takes office and vice versa. If Clinton understands anything he understands the political process and how that process would be affected by a widely popular Democratic president. Even if he doesn't win, just having Clark in the race will spread the Democrats' message to places where it's just not being heard right now.

[jumptheshadow]

40. Clinton probably did encourage Clark to run

And, yes, it was probably for a mixture of motives: He wants the Democrats to win, he wants to maintain his power base within the Democratic party, and he believes that Clark is the best qualified candidate to deal with the difficult array of issues that face our nation.

However, that doesn't mean that the Clark movement was astroturf. Speaking from my own experience, I am a lifelong Democrat who is painfully concerned about what the Bushistas have done to our country, to the point where I decided must get involved.

After serious consideration of Dean, Kucinich and Kerry, I decided I had to look elsewhere. During the buildup to the war Clark had stood out as one of the voices of sanity on Iraq. In business, I deal with a very international group of people. I am deeply aware of the damage that has been done to our foreign relationships during the past three years. I liked the fact that Clark spent time overseas, spoke several languages and incorporated the viewpoints of other nations into his decisions.

With that said, if Dean wins I will be working side-by-side with you.

[NNN0LHI]

53. Yes it must be true. Rush has been reporting this all week n/t

[jumptheshadow]

54. The Times has, as well

I don't listen to Rush.

But it makes sense to me that the Clintons would encourage Clark to run, for all the reasons I stated. Since I don't see the Clintons as the next incarnation of Satan, I don't have any problems with their stance.

[NNN0LHI]

58. The Times also had Judith Miller on the front page telling us about...

...all of the WMD's Saddam had as per her source Chalabi. The old gray lady ain't what she used to be.

Don

[Bread and Circus]

69. As this was addressed to me, here is my take on Clinton...

Originally, I liked Clinton, similar to Clark,
he inspired me to get interested in politics.

Then 8 years of confusion settled in, it was hard
to see the forest instead of just the trees. By that
I mean, it was hard to figure out if Clinton was
a good guy because such a huge right-wing effort
was undertaken to sack him and mislead the public.

Now, after the dust has settled and I have read lots of
political articles, magazines, and books, Clinton,
I think, was a good guy and did a lot for our party
and our country. He was no means perfect and he shouldn't
have lied under oath, but ultimately, on balance, he
was effective and helped Americans.

Recently, he has come out in support of Clark because
he believes two things: 1.) Clark can beat Bush and Dean
can't 2.) Clark is a really talented leader with an amazing
outlook on our country and the world.

I do not believe he supports Clark to somehow promote Hillary.
The sock-puppet theory is a right-wing talking point as right-wing
pundits on MTP and HB this am again confirmed.

So ultimately, I am glad that Clinton likes Clark, it
again is an exhibition of Clinton's keen political insight.
But I am repulsed by the fact that this has been spun into
some sort of pro-Hillary diabolical plan by the right wing
media (and seemingly some DU'ers have bought it).

Finally, in my heart of hearts I believe many elements of the
right wing media are trying to kill a potential love-affair
between America and Clark for one reason, they fear Clark is
going to steal America away from them and Bush. Call me
naive if you want, but I haven't seen the right wing media
spend so much time and effort smearing a Democrat since
Bill Clinton. That should say something to all of us.

And getting back to the original point, WE, the people
of the Draft Clark movement are responsible for him getting
into the race. Support from whomever in "the establishment"
does not take that away.

[oasis]

29. As long as the DLC doesn't push Zell Miller for V.P. I'll go along.

[newsjunkie]

63. hahahaha

That guy is a waste of space!

btw I just saw on Chris Matthews new sunday show.. Andrew Sullivan said Karl Rove's worst nightmare is Dick Gephardt and that he has more support and is more presentable as a pres candidate than most people think. I know this guy sullivan is a sleezy RWer but he may be onto something because Gephardt still has a good chance IMO. Most Dems consider him Bush-lite,but he has name regognition and lots of across party lines appeal and the unions like him. If he or Kerry got in I could live with it I guess.

[ElkHunter]

34. The Democratic party is the party of...

"...of fairness, open-mindedness, justice, prosperity, and peace." But as we've learned, some of our leaders have at times failed in honesty department. And when it comes to love there are much better places to find it than in politics. Sorry, but in the rough-and-tough world of politcs love has little to do with much of anything.

[jonnyblitz]

47. another emotionally overwrought post attempting to guilt people

into shutting up and falling in line! Just because I have questions about things I have read about Clark DOESN"T make me "nasty, mean, and spiteful" so CUT THE CRAP PLEASE!!! :puke:

[JNelson6563]

56. Hear! Hear!!

Amen Jonny!! Damn straight!! If there's anything worse than a whining Repug it's a whining Dem!!!

Julie

[TacticalPeek]

59. Has DU been hacked and turned into a FauxNews chat room?

Much of this echoes the Faux buzz saw that has been spinning at dangerouly high RPM all last week and continues. The RNC could mail this thread out as a fund-raising letter to the Clinton haters.

Ninety-five percent of this conjecture is based on rumor, innuendo and likely repuke disinformation. I'm not surprised when I hear such from CNBC airheads or RW c-span callers.

But here? I'd expect folks to pump their candidate, to criticize oppo candidates, etc, but based on knowledge, experience, whatever, and to be relevant and done in good faith. Ain't seeing much of that here, rather heart-thumping, conspiratorial spinning.

[newsjunkie]

62. I think we are all on edge

This is just all becoming so confusing because we are dealing with the Misinformation Bushites & Co,and on our side we have so many choices and ranges of views to consider who would be best to get rid of these horrible bloodsucking gouls. PLUS we are all dealing with fear about terrorism! I know I AM. I want someone that will take the right steps to get this all sorted out,and protect us from them. We sure wont ever get that from these morons in there now so we better get united behind someone and get rid of them. We still have some time and you are right ...we dont need to attack each other or our particular choices so far. I still need to be convinced,although so far I've been for Dean.