A Question for those with religious beliefs-

[LiberallyInclined]

How would your beliefs be affected if proof of an ancient/alien civilization were found on Mars, or if contact was somehow made with an alien civilization elsewhere in the galaxy- either thru radio/light waves, or actual contact- an alien probe or spacecraft arriving on our planet?

[tavalon]

1. I'm sure you must be asking the Christians

I'm a pagan. Wouldn't affect mine in the least. It would be mighty fascinating though.

[htuttle]

8. Here's a related question for pagans

(Speaking as a pagan myself)

Does your concept of the Goddess suggest that other planets would have their own 'goddesses'?

Do you think there is a correlation between biospheres and 'goddesses', or do you see her as a more abstract entity, encompassing the whole universe? (like a female version of Yahweh, but nicer...)

I think Goddess==Biosphere, but from my discussions with other pagans, I seem to be in the minority.

[Democracy White]

9. Of course each planet

would have its own version of the Lord and Lady, they would more than likely represent the attributes that the natives have observed on their planet as we have on ours. Some may even practice humanoid sacrifices in which we would see as immoral but to them it is a necessity.

I do believe however that overall, the God and Goddess encompass the entire universe, it's just how other beings would interpret them.

This is why I have always loved the new versions of Star Trek; DS9 and Voyager because they really play into different cultures and religions. DS9 was heavy on the Bajoran culture and religous values, mirroring our own.

As for aliens and other lifeforms. I definately believe that they exist. I remember being little and staring at the stars at night and imagining alien life forms. I have always felt that I had lived a life or lives on other planets and various beings. This is another reason why I love Star Trek more than I do Star Wars. I have always felt that I don't belong on this planet, that somehow I am different and I don't fit in. I have always yearned to know more about space and to meet with aliens. I used to pretend that I was a half-being of some sort and I am facinated by the different aliens on Star Trek and wished that I was an officer on one of those ships.

Even to this day I still think like that. So no it wouldn't affect my religious beliefs at all and I would be happy to meet with these aliens should they show up and share our spiritual beliefs as I think that most aliens are advanced, benign and very spiritual beyond humanity's capabilities.

Dee

[UncleSepp]

12. Curious question re: Lord and Lady

Would there be a Lord and Lady of a world inhabited by beings who do not have a male and female gender?

[Democracy White]

14. You mean like in that Star Trek TNG epy

where Riker falls in love with that being from a race that considers themselves adrogynous (sp?)

I would say that they may not have a gendered being as they may have no concept of gender or wish not to acknowledge gender like those beings that I have mentioned above. ( I forgot what they were called)

Same thing as with a race who may have no emotional or sense of spirtituality and rely heavily on other forms of cognizance such as the Vulcans.

I tried to imply that if there were other races out there most of them probably would have developed some kind of spirituality but perhaps there could be a lack of due to cognitive progression.

Heck as far as I know there could be an entire planet full of atheists (no offense)

Dee

[UncleSepp]

26. So rather than Lord and Lady...

There might be one or more nongendered representations of the life in all things.

I am always very curious about the Wiccan emphasis on gender. Even during my wedding, it struck me as a little forced - but then again, gender identity is a little forced for me anyhow :-) (He was a Celtic pagan, I was Norse, the priestess was Wiccan and our Christian parents enjoyed every moment of a beautiful, simple, rainy wedding in the woods.)

I'm not sure what would be offensive about a planet full of atheists, but in any case, none taken :-)

[Democracy White]

41. I think

that the gender representation in Wicca and in most forms of Paganism is there because the practitioners believe in the duality of all things. I know I do. There are some however who are into the worship of the Goddess only and this is understandable as most of us have been raised believing in a patriarchal God and there has not been any room or role for women in the monotheistic religions.

That's at least how I understand it, I am still new at Paganism and I am still learning and trying to find out what tradition I want to follow.

Dee

[Chovexani]

45. Merry meet

The gender duality stuff goes back to British Traditionalist Wicca, which Gerald Gardner pretty much got from Ceremonial Magick and Western occult tradition. Unfortunately for a long time (and even now) it was used as a club to discriminate against GLBT Witches. A lot of old school British Trad Wiccans had this belief that queer Witches didn't belong in the circle because our energy "didn't fit", that we couldn't work magick properly because we "confused the energy", etc. This was especially true in the 70s...if you look at a lot of books from back then, like Sybil Leek's Complete Art of Witchcraft you will see this attitude expressed (even the Farrars' Witches Bible Compleat, an otherwise excellent book, goes off on such a tangent though from what I understand Janet Farrar has distanced herself from this idea in recent years). This strain of conservatism was a strong impetus for the rise of Dianic Wicca, the Radical Faeries, etc.

Thankfully, on the whole Wicca has moved on from that backwards nonsense though you still see it in some traditionalist covens. People are embracing more of an all-inclusive duality (or at least a more understanding of what gender means).

And psst...we have a DU Group for Pagans you might want to check out. Ancient Wisdom and Pagan Spirituality is where it's at! :hi:

[Democracy White]

47. And Merry Meet to you as well

Very interesting nugget of information you gave me. I am a lesbian virgin and I have found a very open Pagan group here in my hometown. I don't understand why this particular group, the BTWs were so against GLBTs but my understanding is that they probably shared the same kind of fear as Tradionalist Christians.

Can't talk much right now but I will check out that group when I have time.

Dee

[tavalon]

10. I'm someone who sees all religions

as the different stories we tell to describe that which we cannot in fact describe. Many if not most of us know intuitively that there is something "greater" than what goes on in the day to day and since we are all story tellers that is what we do about it - we tell stories. I equate it to a giant sphere with x number of windows looking out onto diety and on each of those windows is a different window dressing - all the windows look out at the same thing but describe it just a bit different.

[yella_dawg]

24. As a hard-core Fundie Pagan

I believe that diety is pretty much a "local" concept. Certainly there are Gods/Goddesses of place. Other dieties are more "global" but I don't think Cernunnos is interested in Tau Ceti 4. Diety is an extension of the ancestor concept, so to speak. One could postulate some ultimate-ancestor "super-diety", the spiritual progenitor of all life, but I can't imagine why you'd want to. Earthly dieties are pretty satisfactory. Don't need more, even if they exist in some greater universal context.

[LiberallyInclined]

31. you're wrong-

the question is not intended solely for christians- I was wondering how each person's particular religious beliefs- whatever they may be, would be affected by proof of intelligent extra-terrestial beings.

[yella_dawg]

36. Dude. Relax...

You have to understand that for Pagans, your question really doesn't mean much. My first reaction was "Huh??". Your scenario has precisely no impact on my beliefs, other than fodder for an interesting discussion. (Break out the bud.) My creation myth pertains only to this planet. My Pantheon is only concerned with this planet, and the only real question is whether there would be some major Otherworld party if some extra-terrestrial deities dropped by.


Besides, I just hate it when somebody barks out with "you're wrong!"

[LiberallyInclined]

37. relax?

you read wa-a-a-a-y too much into that "you're wrong"-

first off, i wasn't "barking"- i was responding to someone who presumed, and rather incorrectly, to know my thoughts and intentions- that's the thing i hate.

and besides, after taking 40mgs of methadone, 30 mgs of flexeril, and i forget how many bong hits, i don't know how much more relaxed i could get.

[tavalon]

39. Sorry to have offended n/t

[Swede]

2. Not a problem for me.

If He created everything,why not life on other planets.

[FreedomAngel82]

21. That's a good answer

I agree. How do we not know if there's other life out there? Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not true.

[Marnieworld]

3. I'll add to the question

How would you feel if said aliens had the answer to the origin of the universe and could explain and prove with conclusive evidence contrary to what you currently believe?

[Lerkfish]

19. I'll counter that.

what if God appeared again on earth and showed you conclusively he did in fact exist, would that shatter any doubts of his existence to you?

er...of course, since the proof is contained in the question, just like your question.
So there's no real way to answer that question except the way you want it answered.

if its proven with "conclusive evidence" by very definition beliefs would evaporate, all beliefs. Beliefs are things we choose to hold as true in absence of conclusive evidence.

or, to simplify your question; if someone shows you a blue sky, would you believe that skies are blue?

of course.


I'm a christian, not an idiot.

[Marnieworld]

29. Well you sure told me!

:hi:

[Walt Starr]

4. Wouldn't affect my religious beliefs in the least

Check my sig.

[Tux]

5. I have spiritual beliefs

And if we did encounter aliens, I'd be scared (they're not human) but I'd try to get the courage to walk up to them and ask, "Are you guys hiring?"

[Chovexani]

43. LOL!

I'm a frustrated jobseeker...I hear ya, friend.

[Dervill Crow]

6. It would lend credibility to the American Spiritualist lady who

told me I spent some time in between my past lives on another planet meditating on the things I had learned thus far.

If you want to read about an interesting group of Christians, check out the American Spiritualists.

[bicentennial_baby]

27. I live 10 min from a 100+ year old Spiritualist community

Lake Pleasant, MA. The place has a definitely otherworldly vibe, and it's beautiful.

[Dervill Crow]

30. How cool!

We have a "Spirit-Guided Friends Church" here in town, and there are some really lovely people there. There are several churches, but that's the one I've been to.

[LizW]

7. We are likely not alone.

God is everything. Whatever is, is God.

We don't know everything there is, but it still is.

If other life shows up somewhere, it is God, too.

[Hugin]

11. What if life itself were confirmed elsewhere?

A bacterium by any other name is still life.

[Dorian Gray]

13. I'm Catholic...

It wouldn't affect my beliefs at all. But, I don't read the Bible (OT) as infallible, either. We, as Catholics, are allowed to read it as history, parables, allegory, and symbolic.

[undeterred]

15. The question presumes naivete on the part of religious people.

Throw your bait in some other pond.

[Lerkfish]

20. precisely. well put. nt.

[LiberallyInclined]

33. precisely incorrect. nt

nt

[LiberallyInclined]

32. ???

sorry to disappoint you, but there is no presumption of naivete of religious people on my part- I'm honestly curious as to how a person's chosen beliefs might be affected by proof of intelligent life outside our planet- it's as simple as that.

[supernova]

16. Not at all

I'm deeply spiritual and I already assume (as far back as I can remember) that other beings live on other worlds.

[RiDuvessa]

17. Not going to change my beliefs

And I am catholic.

[Lerkfish]

18. I got no problem with that. what is, is.

someone created that alien race, as well.
science and religion do not have to be mutually exclusive, and my mind they are a partnership: science discovers more of God's wonderful and diverse creation.

I agree there are some right wingnut christians who would likely have their heads explode, but I'm not a right wingnut christian.

I also ascribe to evolution theory. I think dinosaurs are cool. No, I don't have any idea why God made them first, nor do I pretend to account for everything that has been or ever will be discovered. But IMHO God created everything in the universe, so whatever we find, or finds us, is still in the universe. Just because some people didn't correctly anticipate what was waiting around the corner, does not mean that God didn't create the corners.

sorry if that messes with your world view. I know it would be SOOOO much easier to think christians are knuckle-dragging idjits.

[sweetheart]

22. So are you saying religion is antithetical to "evidence"?

There are clearly evidence of a city in the ocean off of florida.
There is scientific evidence of tropical plants growing in the north
of siberia inside 10,000 years.
In that sense, my religion is that we are alive, part of the miracle of
life, interconnected with a magestic and complex universe that we will
never ever ever understand. Then we will die.

Whatever evidence has little bearing on this moment, or inevitable death.

[LiberallyInclined]

34. no.

nt

[toddaa]

23. Would have no effect whatsoever

The Tao is universal. In fact, it would strengthen my belief that the universe is working correctly.

[LSdemocrat]

25. No effect whatsoever

I'm a Muslim.

[bryant69]

28. My personal religious beliefs do not rule out the possibility

of life on other planets, so it wouldn't affect them all that much.

I'd be a bit suspicious, because of that miniseries V I watched back when I was a kid.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[liberalitch]

35. What would Buddha do?

Probably nothing.....
"Why should knowledge that confirms or denies a creator change your obligation?"

[Lydia Leftcoast]

38. Not at all

Why would it be? There's nothing in Christian doctrine that says there's life only on this planet. (I'm a liberal Episcopalian, by the way.)

[Yupster]

40. If you'd like a take on this subject, check out

a series of Books by Harry Turtledove called his WWII series.

There are about seven books.

The basic idea is in the middle of WWII, and alien race (lizards) invade earth and try to conquer it.

They succeed about half way, but then have to make a peace treaty with the humans (Amerians, Soviets, Nazis) and try to liev together.

The story has really gotten interesting in the last two books as the Americans have used stolen technology to reach the lizards planet which is simply called Home.

The series is very interesting and examines ecological destruction, cultural integration, mixing religions, etc.

The lizards worship Spirits of Emperors past.

They are annoyed that many young lizards are wearing wigs and makeup, and many human teenagers are shaving their body hair and painting their bodies in the bodypaint of "The Race".

It's a pretty interesting story if you like that kind of thing.

[Skittles]

42. they'd all find a way to "cover" it

they always do

[Chovexani]

46. Talibornagains already have

The Left Behind, Fristian, Talibornagain crowd already have it covered. Aliens/UFOs/etc. are really demons sent by "The Prince of the Air" (another fundie euphemism for Satan). Seriously. I have even heard them say that if alien life is ever conclusively proven to exist, it was predicted in Revelations and is a sign of the end times (something to do with "lying signs and wonders or whatnot".

Yeah, they're nuts. :crazy:

[Chovexani]

44. It wouldn't affect mine in the slightest

Another Pagan here. :hi:

Personally I'd be fascinated by such a discovery, and would be curious to learn about the aliens' belief systems, and how they fit into their civilizations. Assuming they even have them, which would be a fascinating discussion in and of itself.

My belief is that all is Energy and the Deities are simply manifestations of universal ideas. That's not to say they aren't distinct beings with their own personalities (and personality clashes, hehe), but that Earth Gods and Goddesses, while specific to the needs and beliefs of Earth cultures, would be part of the same Source as alien Gods and Goddesses...the same Source as Earth people, and aliens. In Wicca we have a saying, "Thou art God/dess", which is an expression of that concept.

I believe in other lifeforms anyway. I mean, this is a pretty big universe, isn't it? It's sort of arrogant to assume the only life anywhere in it is on this little blue speck in the boondocks. ;)