Anyone else realize we are watching the fall of the American Empire?

[NNN0LHI]

Yes the party is over. There is no stopping it now. We are like a freight train out of control going down the tracks of hell and the engineer fell out of the train ten miles back up the tracks. All we can do is wait to see what it hits.

Don

[whathappened]

1. right to the point

but i think we have been sold out long befor this , i'm thinking we are owned and controled by money from different countrys , and are gov. have sold or hocked every national park and land that has our name to it , just to fill there pockets with money

[aquart]

23. Ah. My sister's plan is working.

It was always her idea to sell everything. Then nationalize.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Yes we are

After this we are no longer a world superpower, force is not enough...

You also need to be trusted.

It is amazing sicne we will be able to place the blame on the same GOP who at one point, was against Empire.

Historians will sure have fun with this

[Old and In the Way]

7. We are no longer a super power....ain't that the truth....

Clinton understood that diplomacy was 9/10 the equation. Dummy played all the cards and now the rest of the world realizes that we can hardly deal with Iraq, let alone the rest of the world.

What we've lost with this loser will not be recovered for generations....

[Rose Siding]

3. What's going to happen when they put together the fact that

this is what the rest of the world was weighing when they disagreed with us?

[DagmarK]

4. I feel it to, but not ready to give up/sign up for a protest HERE:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=106&topic_id=256&mesg_id=256&page=

[twilight]

5. have faith

You never know - maybe the ousting of the * regime will make the world like us again. When they see what Americans are really made of, they will change their minds. They already KNOW anyway that more that 1/2 of the people that voted did not vote for *.

As my father used to say: "JUST SIT BACK AND WATCH THE SHOW KID!"

:dem:

[RichM]

6. Yes, I know. I just finished reading "Wealth & Democracy" this weekend,

so the strong possibility of all this is very apparent.

Of the many things one could point to, Phillips draws parallels to the last 3 great commercial empires of the past 500 years: the Spanish, Dutch, & British. Each one peaked & started to decline with a financial mania, debt, foreign military entanglements, increasing economic inequality, & declining living standards for the majority of the populations.

[indepat]

20. And the social security trust fund is being looted of trillions of dollars

for big tax cuts mostly for the most affluent: think of the impact, the declining standard of living for millions of the baby-boomer generation who will need every dollar of their full promised social security benefits, but it won't be there for those funds are now being looted. Hopefully, I'm wrong, but realistically, the handwriting is on the wall: the decline and fall of the....

[Brian Sweat]

8. Bush has squandered the good will of the world

like a bucket full of quarters at a slot machine.

[Sick of Bullshit]

25. Bu$$$h with his quarters at the slot machine

trying to hit another trifecta

[Beetwasher]

9. Maybe. The one thing for sure that would/will bring us down

and seal the deal, and it's rather unfortunate because it's probably unavoidable at this point, is another big terror attack. This admin. has done their absolute best to make sure it will happen. Either that or a war with another country. God forbid we need to commit our troops on any sort of scale somewhere else in the world right now...

[oneighty]

10. Not so fast NNNOLHI

I respect your opinions greatly, but on this I disagree.

We the people of the USofA are being taught an in your face lesson

why an extreme philosophy of government cannot and will not survive.

As a nation we will recover. We will mend our fences,

we will re-establish goodwill with our neighbours.

We will learn from this hard lesson.

Ed

[Vitruvius]

15. And if we do so, we'll give up the American Empire voluntarily --

as we should. And we'd be the better for doing so.

That's what I hope for -- an end to the American Empire and a rejuvenation of America. Getting out of the empire business is the very best thing we could do -- for ourselves and for the world.

Vitruvius

P.S: Empires have always been a losing business for the majority. Because the majority pays the costs (e.g. the casualties & cost of invading one country after another), while the rich/ruling class gets the goodies -- like the stolen oil and stolen art from Iraq.

[NashVegas]

11. I've Known it For Some Time

In the early 1990s I made a collage. Bunch of newspaper clippings reflecting how fucked up and decadent things were getting, against the backdrop of a flag and "476 AD" scrawled across. I don't have it anymore, or would tell you which clippings were used.

[gristy]

12. But the forces that gave rise to the NeoCons are still in place

Hmmm, so now you expect me to list them? Well, here's a couple:

1. The dumbing-down of society and the under-valuing of education, especially science and math (but history, english, and most other core studies too)
2. The move away from secular government in the U.S. and the rise of Christianity in the U.S.
3. An all-pervasive electronic media which makes it too easy for others to tell us what to think, and too easy for us to consume what they feed us.
4. And other bad stuff too.

But on a final positive note, we have the internet, DU, whatreallyhappened, etc.

[nostamj]

29. "the rise of Christianity in the U.S"

Yes and NO.

what passes for "christianity" today has little association with the 'fundamental' (pun intended) teachings of Christ.

like everything else with the right, their 'Christianity' is just another spin, just another lie.

[Vitruvius]

42. btw, the original title of Edward Gibbon's "Decline & Fall" was

"The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, and the Triumph of Barbarism and Religion"

The latter phrase fits Dubya and his fundie barbarians to a 'T'.

[proud patriot]

13. Read The Decline and Fall of the American Empire by Gore Vidal

Talks all about it ..:hi:

[kentuck]

14. We may have to call a new constitutional convention...

and dissolve all debts and agreements of the present government. We cannot survive if we have to pay the debts that the capialists have laid upon the people of this nation. We may have to start from scratch rather than trying to survive in this mess that has been created, that will make 95% of the population subservient to the top 5% or less...

[KittyWampus]

24. Agreed.

And I think seizing assets from the Corporate Criminals is also in order.

[number9]

16. I still believe it's only a temporary jumping of the tracks

there are too many with too much belief in the ideals of this country to just let it go. It's only a matter of time before the train is back on track. I have to believe that or I'll go nuts.

[aneerkoinos]

32. Wellcome to the looniebin :D

There's nothing temporary with Peak Oil (and NG), vanished US production base and ever growing debt. The party is over.

US had it's century already, wellcome to the Project for New Chinese Century...

"have to believe or I'll go nuts" - from the sound of that, you are nuts allready :D. Don't worry, the diagnosis is ready, it's sickness called American way of Life (in other words hubristic mania combined with compulsory consumption symptom). The cure is coming soon, but it may hurt a bit...





PS: sorry, not meant as personall attack in any way, just picked your post from many possible to make more general point.

[bobthedrummer]

17. Historic times

We, the people are awake, the rallying point is OUR U.S. Constitution, that is US, nothing can alter or abolish it without OUR consent, and WE all will defend it from this treason.

All power to the people, just like it says in the Constitution.

[Nikia]

18. Balance of Power

I wonder if the administration is familiar with neo conservative alliance theory, particuliarly balance of power. The theory is that once one power becomes too powerful and threatening, other nation states will ally against it. The U.S. should keep that in mind before invading any more countries.

[Porcupine]

19. We built bonfires with the seed corn. They were so pretty.......

to see as we gambled away our future.

We've burned all of the oil and the best coal seams.
We've built more casino's than colleges.
We've torn up our rail system and sold the stations
We raped our soil and our aquifiers.
We cut all of the best lumber.
We destroyed our most productive fisheries.

Oh and we're indulging in massive land speculation to fund an ever increasing debt. We're fat, and addicted to drugs and we can't cook worth a damn on average.

But the national wake-up call seems to ever recede. I just don't get it.

[kcordell]

21. Oh Ye Of Little Faith

America survived a Revolution, a Civil War, and two World Wars. I think we'll manage.

[Tinoire]

22. Yep and all sadly predicted while people watched Nero fiddle

We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission, which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.

Ayn Rand - The Nature of Government

<snip>

Bush's domestic policy centers on internal repression, building up the police and military at home. While the “war on terrorism” is the pretext, the real purpose is to prepare to deal with massive social upheavals through the use of force. A government installed, not by a vote of the people, but by a 5-4 majority on the US Supreme Court, the Bush administration more and more rests on the army and the police and dispenses with the trappings of democracy.

Despite the glorification of Bush by a cowed and cynical media, and the prostration of the Democratic Party, this administration is isolated and deeply frightened of any genuine opposition. As for the polls and claims of pundits that Bush is wildly popular with the American people, these are merely instruments of political intimidation. In factories and offices, or working class neighborhoods, the general reaction to Bush is one of indifference, suspicion or contempt.

http://www.the-decline-and-fall-of-the-american-empire.com/lawdude/decline.html#chapter15

[jiacinto]

26. I disagree--and I don't think America is over

You are being way too negative.

[DrBB]

27. Um, I think he said "American EMPIRE" there, you know?

I hope--I sincerely HOPE--that on this board, if nowhere else in our currently benighted country, we don't equate AMERICA with AMERICAN EMPIRE.

I took Don to be referring to the PNAC/Neo-con plan for a Pax Americana, one of the stupidest and most insidious ideas ever to infect the country, which seems about to impale itself on the iceberg of its own arrogance in the form of the Niger Uranium matter. I DON'T think he was referring to the demise of the country itself.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. It was so stupid that when it came up in Poppy's admin,

they held their nose.

[aneerkoinos]

37. To be more accurate

American Way of Life = American Empire (or supremacy, Pax Americana etc.), and is not limited only to PNAC ideologues.

But, that is everything US is, for everybody's sake I hope there is still energy and potential for total change of habits and reviwing some of the old ideals into something more than lipservice and self-justification.

[Old and In the Way]

28. I'm not saying America is over....

But, if we've learned anything under Bush, is that we do have rather significant limitations. The PNACer's seemed to think we had endless capability to dominate the world with our military. I think we our now seeing how difficult it is to manage a 3rd world country with an army that spends 1/100 of what we do on defense.

Our power was always in our diplomacy and ideals. Clinton understood it; Bush and the adults are starting to learn it.

[MrPrax]

33. Who Else Understood this Diplomac y?

Harken back to yesteryear...pull up a stool to the ye old radio and ask the question
Our power was always in our diplomacy and ideals. Clinton understood it; Bush and the adults are starting to learn it.?
um...kissenger...dulles...um...albright...holbrooke...um...when we get to a great american diplomat...phone in

Mind you that US ambassador that tried to save Bangladeshis from Zia's troops by admitting them to the US embassy ground was a 'true hero'--then Kissenger phoned and told him to 'knock it off'

I think the gutters on the House of America need some cleaning--the drains are a little stuck

[UTUSN]

30. Shouldn't This Be in "Poll" Format? To Save, I'll Vote "Yes" n/t

[UTUSN]

38. I Would Say, "Yes" - Oops, Having a Nancy RAYGUN Moment n/t

[Mari333]

31. An interesting History of the American Empire

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/American_Empire/American_Empire_page.html

[Cocoa]

35. the Bush Doctrine

onto the scrapheap of history, is my prediction. Shortest-lived doctrine ever. Bush did a great job illustrating exactly what was wrong with it.

[mitchum]

36. We are the modern-day Hessians:

first-rate military
second-rate economy

[aneerkoinos]

39. "Contries don't have permanent allies, only permanent interests"

There is one very important repercussion that is hardly at all understood, the unravelling of US-UK alliance and final vaporizing of the old British Empire.

Britannia never gave up it's Empire, it just passed it to US to number two in that empire. That is the answer to the often asked question why Blair followed Cheney. Leading elite of Britannia just followed their age old imperialist policy (And Blair happens to be very probably insane - God talks to him too).

But look at what happened: Old Europe gave it's final declaration of independence, under enormous pressure nations pulled together (nothing like the old common enemy trick ;)) even if many leaders were mistaken not to see further than short term bribes, to their peril. At the same time enlargmenet is succeeding and EU is becoming the largest economy of the globe with lot of goodwill towards it among the peoples and the leaders of the world. People of Turkey chose their future way in EU and broke allience with the Empire, or more accurately, servitude to US. Old Europe won the vote that never came in SC. New constitution will make EU even stronger, e.g. it means EU will take over WTO, IMF and Worldbank with a united voice, amd with the constitution common defence is practical certainty in the coming years, despite sabotaging efforts by Blair mole.

But what Blair and old elite believed to be Angloamerican empire turned out to be sorry attempt by Neocon idealogues to build US-empire. In Iraq the whole empire stretched militarly, politically and economically to it's limit and over, and Emperor had no clothes. Now Blair will take the fall, and US will loose it's last ally, as the floor wipe will have no choice but to choose much smaller role as a loyal member of EU. Thinking people in UK already understand this. Without UK serving US interests US will have even less chance to keep EU weak.

US may choose to scale down it's aspirations with multilateral one of the guys policy, and work together with others as slowly weakening power, or stay in the current course just to find out it is totally isolated and continually walked over. Best army in the world is no good for nothing expect for occasional job as a hired gun, that's what nukes mean in global balance of power.

One final small detail: guess who now owns US federal debt? Japan and China together with smaller Asian countries that have been keeping their currency tied to dollar in order to keep exports going on have bought enormous amounts of US bonds. Enough to bankrupt US with a single stroke if they decide to sell all at once. And now if they tell, US dances...

[farmboxer]

40. Bush And His Extremely Rich Pals

are extremely greedy! They will stop at nothing to gain even more wealth and power!

[maggrwaggr]

41. I knew in my gut the second we invaded Iraq ....

that it was the beginning of the end for America.

Maybe that's why I felt so queasy about it.