Question: When did Blogs posts become Late Breaking News?

[symbolman]

Not to be a stinker about this, I appreciate all that these fine writers put out, but I've been seeing more and more posting of Blog editorials as Latest Breaking News and was wondering if it's okay for Takebackthemedia.com to just go ahead and post whatever we think is really keen as Late Breaking News?

Seriously, the question seems to be, WHAT constitues an actual NEWS item? WHO is Valid - Wash Post, NYTIMES, etc seem to be tossing out the same news we got when the last Bush was in office (and they are not the only ones), tons of non info filled with anonymous sources...

I actually handed a right winger a newspaper in the 80's and said, "Find me one name in any of these articles."

And they couldn't. Do it for yourself, it's pretty amazing once you look - I recall when valid news services had to have two or three sources confirmed, etc.

What actually constitues REALITY and FACT given that the Blogs are in my opinion more truthful than actual PRAVDA (and even PRAVDA has better fact findings than WE do in our papers) - but are still not considered more than editorials using facts from MSM sources.

Any thoughts? Should we become Takebackthemedia News Wire and start breaking stories about the latest thing we've flushed down our toilets? :)

I think this is a valid issue and should be discussed here and by the blogs.

Have a safe and Happy Memorial day. Buy a Veteran a beer (but only if he'll tell his war stories to some guy at the other end of the bar -- that's a joke, but it really works) - I get to say that as a Veteran, because I fought and died for my country.

Props to our boys fighting, even if they are obeying the wrong orders.

[Placebo]

1. Ya got me.

I don't understand it either.

[paineinthearse]

2. Sometimes news is discovered here

Reuters and the SF Chronicle covered Rice's speech today in SF. The Chronicle printed pics with captions of "a demonstrator". But it took the work of 3 DU'ers here in the GD forum to identify her as Medeena Benjamin. That has yet to be picked up by the corporate media, but WE KNOW!

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3743356

Re your original thought, I totally agree with your premise, especially where you remember newswire sources needed impeccable foundations. Remember that great scene in "all the presidents men" where bradley had bernstein get the 3 confirmations?

[DemBones DemBones]

5. Her name is Medea Benjamin.

Not to be a paininthearse about spelling, just clueing you in. ;-)

[icymist]

3. Maybe there should be a 'Latest Breaking Blog Story' group?

Or do we have too many groups already?

[paineinthearse]

4. OK, where would this go?

Raw Story has held exclusive interviews with John Conyers and Richard Clark. They are not corporate media. Where do we post?

[thebigidea]

8. editorials or GD, really. Since when are interviews LBN?

[earth mom]

21. Posts in the editorial forum seems like it tends to get buried or ignored

and often there is solid investigative info there that may not get the exposure it should. Just MHO. :shrug:

[DemBones DemBones]

7. Too many groups already. Balkanization. nt

[Cleita]

6. Historically, the rumor mill has often been the source for

breaking news. Journalistic standards I believe are fairly recent in the last two or three hundred years. When the Journals don't do their job and offer propaganda, or are prevented from doing their job then the rumor mill takes over. I consider the blogs the rumor mill of the new millenium. It seems like it's up to us to sort it out.

[eleny]

9. I asked that "Blogs" be included in the Editorials and Articles title

Skinner said he would discuss it with the admins. That was maybe a couple of weeks ago. I asked for the word "Blogs" or some such be included in the title to help catch my eye so I'd read that Forum more often. Hope they do something like that. :shrug:

[norml]

10. Some news is more breaking than others.

Sometimes there's an ongoing story that will have different pieces of breaking news that deserve their own thread. I enjoy finding news to break, and being the first to post it. It's good to know when something doesn't belong in LBN, and to be able to suffer the disappointment of posting your find in a less breaking place.

[autorank]

11. Great question. KICK & NOMINATE

The Bradleee quote is great. That's a far cry from the WaPost of today. It's not even good cat box liner (cats don't like it either). They may get three sources but three sources supporting nothing is still nothing. I don't even think they leave their offices unless its for a lunch or hair appointment.

I think the blogs can be a huge source of real news. There needs to be some standard of reporting like sourcing, for example. And the bloggers have to know how to handle on the record, not for attribution, and off the record or what ever therms they use now. I will say that I did see great reporting on a blog. AmericaBlog broke the Jeff Gannon story and it rocked. He had new stuff every day and it was the real thing. He's great. What did Aravosis get for this, not a fucking thing from CM (corporate media) but he was a real news source for a few weeks.
http://www.americablog.org

I think that when a blog is clearly doing news, it ought to be on LBN. I realize that's a judgment call but it's probably easier than figuring out who to ban, or whatever.

:kick::kick:

[lala_rawraw]

12. This might help...

I sat down to write this and realized I have already explained it far better here:

http://radiofreeblogistan.com/2005/02/21/the_big_e_ethics_bloggers_and_independent_media.html

edit: additional comments

I think news goes in LBN, if from credible source and publication. I would say you have a good list here:

Truthout
Mother Jones
The Nation
Harpers
Raw Story (sorry, but I know our own work)
Alternet
Google News
are some examples...

Do blogs count? Yes. There are journalists who blog and there are bloggers who investigate...so if they provide a fully vetted piece, they are citizen journalists and are good to go:

Nashua Advocate
Some Diaries on Kos (very well sourced, vetted, and written)
Some articles posted by DU members, but need to be written more for copy
Bradblog (great investigative journo by citizen blogger... news)
are some examples...

Feel free to expand the list.

[autorank]

13. lala, You're right. I agree with all those names, especially

Raw Story, BradBlog and, wow, Harpers.

:hi: PS. I'm still counting on my wild conspiracy theory to come true.
The one where they do a Nixon on *.

[lala_rawraw]

14. I think more importantly...

The sourcing...

if you read my above link, here are some things I think are key:

snip

"In a group environment, where many personal blogs are hosted, there should be a blanket statement explaining to would-be readers that the sentiments expressed are not vetted news stories. There are bloggers who would make very credible journalists to be sure, but they also have to take on the responsibility that comes with the turf. So yes, I am concerned on many levels because the Web can spread rumor, conjecture, etc., at the speed of light and inadvertently devalue the independent press. The Web is also a hot-bed for disinformation, which diarists might spread unknowingly.

Creating the benchmark, however, should not be up to the individual diarist as they should be free to express themselves. The benchmark should be set for how blogs are quoted, used, sourced, etc., by the media. One other item of note is that blogs are sourced in the mainstream for a story when in fact the blog may just be providing a link to the actual story. Again, these issues should not be addressed on a personal level; rather, they should be addressed by clearly separating diarists from journalists. I think of citizen journalists as in fact journalists, assuming they adhere to the basic ethical standards, report responsibly, and thoroughly vet their information. I think blogs are highly important and influential, but I think their biggest contribution is research (careful research) and open discussion. They are also key in grassroots mobilization, but again, there has to be an understanding that the independent progressive press is different from blogging. "

[demobabe]

15. I think it should be real clear cut

If it's truly news, then it goes into LBN.

Raw Story and Truthout ARE NOT late breaking news. Period. I love Truthout and I think they're doing a fantastic service. But they reprint stories from other sources, and write weblogs and editorials.

Editorial and commentary is not LBN by definition.

The articles TO prints as news are from other news sources, and those sources should be quoted as TO is just republishing them. It isn't TO's story.

Raw Story not even a news source. They haven't broke anything to my knowledge and only link to other news stories. Once again, the original story should be quoted.

There ARE times that blogs and alternative news sources have broken stories that should qualify for LBN, such as America Blog's Gannon story, Atrios's Strom Thurmond story, and even Brad Blog's Clinton Curtis story (even though that's a reach).

I propose to the moderators simple rules for LBN:

1) The item has to be news. No editorials, opinion pieces, or news analysis.

2) Ideally, the original source should be linked. If the article is AP or syndicated in many newspapers/websites, the link should be to an actual page on the site you'd most like to promote - such as Truthout, for instance, avoiding supporting corporate media as much as possible. In this example, AP should be quoted as the originator of the news article and not Truthout since Truthout did not write it.

3) If an alternative news source has a story that seems to qualify for LBN, then it should be able to be verified with at least two sources. In the three examples I cited above, they were all verifiable with multiple sources, and they were newsworthy.

4) On a news story where many different sources are reporting the same story including a progressive media source, the progressive source should be linked assuming the quality is good and it meets Rules 1 & 3. A good example of this would be news written for Indymedia.

[bobthedrummer]

22. I think a lot of the articles in Raw Story are LBN or LBN supplements.

I mean I've never encountered bullshit or truly fringe subjects at your site and I'm with you on the FOIA requests!:thumbsup:

[im10ashus]

16. Good sources, all of them.

I especially like Harpers. Their week in review is always an eye opener. I would say blogs became more a source for late breaking news about the time the MSM dropped the ball and started becoming controlled by the White House, sometime around, oh, 9/11/01.

[bpilgrim]

17. i think it depends on who got there first

as usual, and if it is legit LBN news, as in, BREAKING, and VERIFIABLE/SOURCED to reliable source(s) :shrug:


http://images.GlobalFreePress.com

happy holidays :hi:

peace

[symbolman]

19. Good point, and I have enjoyed your site over these

years.

I just wonder if I should be posting LBN with "TBTM (Takebackthemedia.com): Another Troop Dies in Chopper Accident in Iraq" (with a link to MY site where the link to the ACTUAL story is found - Later, once I have my claws in you :)) since I am seeing similar postings on LBN threads by others.

And I've never seen you post "GLOBALFREEPRESS: Title of Article Here" in LBN, you, like many others just post the Title of the Article (and I believe you have great editorials as well as photos), and from what I've viewed here (for probably 4 years now) is that the Mods are very insistant that the Title of the Article be CORRECT/COMPLETE, as in being EXACTLY what Yahoo or Washington Post or AP Titled the article - (admittedly they let someone slip in a editorial word in the title now and then, like,

"Bush Declares Irag War will be Golden Age <Steaming Load>")

I'm worried that if everyone with a News Compilation Page (whether is a nifty looking site or just text like Buzzflash) starts sticking their blog/site name at the start of the Title that it will be impossible to sort them all out and the Mods will be kept busy when their valuable time could be spent tombstoning freepers or whatever is needed.

I have to admit that I've posted many times in General Subject something like, "New Symbolman Flash: Ahnold Counts the Votes", etc, and while much of my work is timely it isn't neccessarily LBN, hence my reason for posting it in General Subjects..(Even tho I check my sources for my flashes very carefully and include them in the flashes for others to see and click on)

Being Takebackthemedia.com is a big responsibility as we are trying to make sure that EVERYONE is not making things up, or re-arranging articles and calling them theirs - it can be a fine line at times, and most of all we are working to get the Equal Time Statute reinstalled, among the many progressive fights we've battled, from boycotting Limbaugh to being sued by Michael Savage, etc - Was THAT LBN when we were sued for a half a million bucks by Savage? Should WE have "reported" that?)

Luckily we've only had to print one retraction in the last few years as we were caught with our pants down, and weren't the only ones.

There is a lot of blurring going on now, and our reality is being created by AP, YAHOO, etc and if we become opinionated Repeater Stations for them, we may end up with egg on our collective faces IMHO..

Buzzflash for instance collects many links on one page, makes wonderful sarcastic and brilliant titles and then links to the original source - where we can buy what YAHOO is selling or not as we all do not have news investigators at our disposal.

Granted, together the DU has more clout in my opinion than FOX NEWS (who I believe to be one of many Karl ROve fax machine "repeater stations") could ever hope for - FOX and CNN, etc have all these hired "reporters" "investigating" and creating news.

While the DU has 60,000 LOYAL, Intelligent, folks who will dig very deeply into a subject and work like a think tank, their extrapolations at time are so brilliant that they are beyond news - nearly bordering on the psychic at times. And they do it because they are a community and are passionate about getting at the truth.

When a thread is chock full of DU'rs investigating they will even retract a statement if proven wrong, and that is the mark of truth and ethics to the core. YAHOO, FOX, CNN cannot PAY enough clowns (who pretend to be reporters) to do the work that DU'rs do with such heart and attention to detail, etc, WE RULE (THANKS DU ADMIN!)

Basically I guess I'm saying that I personally have a problem with what I would consider editorial comments being called LBN, just because they've been remixed since last week. It reminds me of putting lipstick on a pig and in some ways nearly reeks of plagerism (a word that seems to have almost become as atrophied as Bush's morals)..

Maybe it all boils down to standards accepted by the group, but enforced by the owners of a site -

But I'm worried that we may not be taken seriously by the very media we are seeking to reform (and we actually NEED them to REFORM them) if we start blurring the guidlines ourselves -- Takebackthemedia.com caught CNN when they REMOVED 750 words from a Hans Blix report - we posted what had happened, got many people to SLAM CNN with emails and CNN PUT THOSE WORDS BACK IN THAT VERY AFTERNOON.

Such is our power, and our responsibility. BUT, I would not have posted in LBN "TBTN: CNN Removes words from Hans Blix report, caught with pants down by website"

It would have been inappropriate, even tho it IS actually NEWS, but only to PROGRESSIVES - I would not insult Progressives by thinking they are something I need to spring a marketing tool on to further my site.

Let's hope this isn't happening here.

And THANKS for the comments one and all! :)

[bpilgrim]

20. agree

and i appreciate your comments and work as well :toast:

"editorial comments being called LBN" is not allowed as it is, but, for example folks breaking senate happenings is legit news, if they are first to report it, imo.

and i agree, that LBN's integrity is critical to this sites success in passing the word, and therefore must be looked after very carefully yet there's bound to be borderline topics that are certainly worthy of debate on a case by case basis but i would prefer not to see complete censorship of news emanating from web outfits and news focused or journalist blogs by a simple black & white rule that bans 'blogs' from LBN posting if they meet the long established criteria of what is LBN.

keep up the good fight :hi:

peace

[JNelson6563]

18. There's other stuff as well

here in GD I often see posts that are truly lounge fodder. It's kinda sad.

Julie

[Moderator]

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