I must admit my ignorance regarding Venezuela's Chavez...help me.

[Catch22Dem]

What's the big deal about him. I know the bushbots hate him, but sadly, it's something I haven't really paid much attention to. My cousin was going on and on about him last weekend, how he's an elected dictator and stuff. My cousin relies on fucking Michael Savage, of all sick bastards in the world, for his information.

Can someone give me the dummies guide to Chavez and the source of the repukes hatred?

[BulletproofLandshark]

1. The source of Repuke hatred

Is Chavez' socialist agenda. The fact that he wants to use Venezuela's oil wealth to help his nation's less fortunate sends right-wingers into a rage.

Edit: I am totally in favor of a socialist agenda, BTW

[Catch22Dem]

5. Oooooh, I like that idea

Too bad our own oil grabbing assholes couldn't do the same. Oh wait, they are, I forgot about "trickle down" economics. :eyes:

[Kikosexy2]

2. He was....

democratically elected---majority by the poor. He's for helping the poor which make the rich in his country seethe with anger that they've tried twice and failed to overthrow him (along with some U.S. help). And he also has cojones (balls) to thumb his nose at the Bushbots at every turn--he knows Chimpie and co. wants their oil. I like that he's defiant when it comes to Chimpie and co.

[indepat]

3. He's a democratically-elected leader who doesn't march to the beat of the

drummer, hence someone likely to be taught a lesson.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catch22Dem]

6. Thanks

And welcome to DU :toast:

[FlemingsGhost]

9. link? Thanks.

"... and most believe he stole the elections."

Who is "most?"

[Cocottelle]

27. Here is one, in Spanish

http://www.firmaspress.com/413.htm

[arcos]

38. Montaner is VERY right wing!

Hardly an objective opinion...

[FlemingsGhost]

41. Carlos Alberto Montaner? LOL! Nice try ...

For your reading pleasure, an it's in English:

http://www.cubanow.net/global/loader.php?secc=10&cont=culture/num11/1.htm

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FlemingsGhost]

48. Well, now you are not even trying.

Feeling sick? See a doctor.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

49. Why do you believe that?

Is it just a "hunch"?

Are you taking the word of people with distinct anti-Chavez agendas, who don't have evidence of their own that Chavez actually "stole the elections"?

If so, that's pretty sick.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

54. Care to offer up some evidence of your claims?

In other words, what your post just said is, "yes, it is just a hunch, and I can't back it up worth a shit."

Just as I expected.

Also, I don't believe you live in Venezuela; please offer up some proof of that, as well. For example, you should have a ".ve" e-mail address, right?

[FlemingsGhost]

55. You are in a small minority

You lost ... three times.

"Get Over It."

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FlemingsGhost]

58. huh?

I don't follow.

Maybe it's the language thing, being as you are from Venezuela, and all.

[DireStrike]

60. She is using "lost" to refer to elections

Maybe you were referring to the conversation points?

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DoYouEverWonder]

10. There was nothing to steal in Venezula

The majority of the population is poor and brown, the rich elite who opposed him are a small minority.

[knowbody0]

36. the are number 7 in oil production

[SeveneightyWhoa]

50. 5th in oil exports..

According to an article (http://www.counterpunch.org/frank05242005.html), "Venezuela is currently the fifth largest oil exporter in the world and supplies about 13% of daily oil imports to the United States."

[knowbody0]

62. thanks for that

[DoYouEverWonder]

65. I was referring to votes

Chavez didn't have to steal the election, because he had the support of the majority of people in that country.

[knowbody0]

68. oh.

excuse me. i get really defensive about him.

[Frederik]

15. "most believe he stole the elections"

Baloney, no serious people think he stole the elections. Stop spreading false information, there's too much of it on the Internet as it is.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

51. "We"?

Do you find that the majority (or even a moderate amount) of Venezuelans agree with this opinion of yours?

Didn't think so.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

16. Elected dictator?

How is he a dictator?

"Elected dictator" a Bush administration talking point and you know it.

"Most" right-wing think-tanks and Bush policymakers "believe he stole the elections", if that's what your definition of "most" is. They'd certainly know something about that subject.

[FlemingsGhost]

20. Yup ... a complete contradiction in terms. Classic GOP newspeak.

Funny, amidst terms like "BushCo." and "Repigs, the poster curiously writes:

"He openly criticizes our president."

Uh huh ...

[Cocottelle]

29. BULL

You may not agree with my views, that doesn't make me incorrect. Have you ever even been to Venezuela?

[peacetalksforall]

34. Here we go again.

In the eyes of the world, he is a duly elected President.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

45. I don't believe you live in Venezuela.

For all I know, you could be making that up.

And why is your initial post so odd, in that you start by calling him a "dictator" and then flop around from seemingly pro-Chavez sentiment back to being anti-Chavez again?

One second he's a dictator who's criticizing "our president", then he knows how the Bush administration works and is protecting his oil -- seems like your having a hard time stating your true opinion of the man. Be blunt, not wishy-washy.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FlemingsGhost]

61. That tends to happen when we let others dictate our opinion ...

I hope you start caring soon.

[reality based]

19. Jimmy Carter observed the last election

and found no serious problem with the outcome.

[Nabia2004]

22. Carter certified election w/paper trail

After the 2000 election Chavez dumped the paperless "American" made electronic voting machines and replaced them with machines that provide a paper receipt. Chavez won the electronic count and the paper recount. It should also be noted that each voter had to match their thumb print to their national ID before voting.

[annabanana]

23. good info to have, thanks

AND..
welcome to DU
:toast:

[morgan2]

7. he's as close to the real deal as any politician I can think of

The idiot Republicans refer to him as a dictator, even though he holds a 70% approval rating and has been democratically elected 3 times now(once in a recall vote partly sponsored by the NED). The only crimes he's committed is doing whats best for his countries people, not his countries oligarchs and not for multinational corporations.

[ablbodyed]

8. They hate him because>>>>

he is in the forefront of those opposing the neo-liberal agenda for Latin America. If he is successful he will throw BIG wrench into the plans to control LA through economic levers. He is a great man for those Venezuleanos who have little. Of course the wealthy there, and here, hate him.

[Frederik]

11. He has declared a war on illiteracy

He expropriates land that has been unused for more than three years and gives it to poor landless farmers. He provides free health care for the poor in cooperation with Cuba (Cuban doctors come to Venezuela). He says "sod off" to the IMF and the World Bank. He is a very vocal opponent of American policies in the Southern hemisphere. He buys weapons from Russia, not the US, and plans to develop nuclear energy in cooperation with Iran.

He has been popularly elected and re-elected in free and fair elections with large margins and won several referenda. There's nothing dictatorial about him. A better description would be populist-socialist.

Condi and the neo-cons hate him.

[Cocoa]

12. read "Hugo Chavez Departs"

the amazing thing to me about the Hugo Chavez thing is the reaction from the Bush administration and the establishment media in the period between the Chavez coup and his restoration two days later.

Read the NYT editorial "Hugo Chavez Departs" and WSWS's analysis of this editorial...

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:nzzXKXEEc0YJ:www.geocities.co.jp/WallStreet-Stock/8145/041302.html+%22hugo+chavez+departs%22&hl=en&start=8

http://wsws.org/articles/2002/apr2002/nyt-a15.shtml

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. He is also guilty of bring of Indian descent

the natives are supposed to run for government and win.

[reality based]

18. Actually he is reported to have black ancestry

[Cocottelle]

31. That's not uncommon in

Latin America, we are a Melting pot

[reality based]

70. It's not unheard of in the US either

Nevertheless, it has been reported that some Chavez opponents in Venezuela use this ancestry in their attacks upon him. For example see http://www.countercurrents.org/ven-ali170804.htm
It would appear that not everyone in Venezuela looks with favor on the melting pot, at least when apportioning political power.

[in_cog_ni_to]

14. This is all I know.

Chavez wrote a public letter stating that should he die, look to the Bush administration because they are after Venezuela's oil and want him out of power. Chavez wants the oil wealth shared among his countrymen...not the U.S. Also, I think think the oil is owned BY THE PEOPLE of Venezuela...Citgo stations. The money goes to the people. At least I think that's what I read here on DU. :)

I have a good friend whose parent's are Latinos. Her dad was from Mexico and her mom is from Puerto Rico. Her mom HATES Chavez. I asked my friend why and she just said that her mom said he was a bad "dictator" and I told her what I posted above. I would be interested in getting feedback from other Latinos on Chavez, if they know anything about him.

I "think" he was overthrown in a U.S. supported coup, but was back in power soon thereafter. I think it was him. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

[arcos]

21. I guess most Latinos in the US oppose him...

And in some Latin American countries he's not very popular either. Right wing media dominates the markets and what most of us see is how "bad" Chávez is and how "undemocratic" and "chaotic" his government is. We've been fed he's an extremist authoritarian... and of course, that he's nuts.

I don't like his rhethoric much because it is too confrontational... I'd rather have Lula or Kirchner for example. But his policies have helped a lot of people who were basically ignored and oppressed by the ruling bipartisan elite, and he has pushed lots of democratic reforms.

[eridani]

24. His rhetoric means jackshit

The neocon thugs both here and there wouldn't like him a bit better if he were a mild-mannered compromiser like Palacio.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050530&s=palast

George Bush has someone new to hate. Only twenty-four hours after Ecuador's new president took his oath of office, he was hit by a diplomatic cruise missile fired all the way from Lithuania by Condoleezza Rice, then wandering about Eastern Europe spreading "democracy." Condi called for "a constitutional process to get to elections," which came as a bit of a shock to the man who'd already been constitutionally elected, Alfredo Palacio.

What had Palacio done to get our Secretary of State's political knickers in a twist? It's the oil--and the bonds. This nation of only 13 million souls at the world's belly button is rich, sitting on 4.4 billion barrels of known oil reserves, and probably much more. Yet 60 percent of its citizens live in brutal poverty; a lucky minority earn the "minimum" wage of $153 a month.

Given the oil windfall, Palacio sees no need to follow Gutierrez's path to economic asphyxiation. "It is impossible that they condemn us not to have health, not to have education," he told me. He made it clear that handing over 90 percent of his nation's new oil wealth would not stand.

That's not what the Bush Administration wanted to hear. Besides Condi's attack, Palacio got the full "Chávez" treatment from the New York Times, which ran the headline "Ecuador's New Chief Picks Cabinet; Leftist in Economic Post" after Palacio's new finance minister announced Ecuador would put social-services programs first ahead of payments to bondholders. The Times said Palacio's views "ruffled some feathers" (whose, we don't know) and that foreign powers questioned the "legitimacy" of his right to office. Palacio smiled, "They don't say which ones."

[arcos]

26. His rhetoric is what I don't like...

And I think it affects mainly how the mainstream media continent-wide portrays him... Kirchner and Lula are not portrayed as extremists, although it is obvious they are at least left of center. Chávez IS portrayed as an extremist though, and I believe it doesn't help his cause.

[Cocottelle]

33. There is some truth to

Your post, except that chavez isn't exactly a Liberal. What most latinos dislike is ANYONE who establishes a frienship with Fidel and praises Fidel. GEE, I wonder why?

[arcos]

37. I never said he was a liberal...

He's not, he's a socialist. I don't agree with you regarding Castro though... there are lots of popular public figures who are friends with Castro and they are very popular throughout Latin America. Gabriel García Márquez comes to mind, for example...


Welcome to DU, btw! :hi:

[Cocottelle]

42. Yes, but

Gabbo is not in politics. Watever he does with his life is none of my concern. What he does doesn't directly affect me. As long as he keeps those good books coming. I like his realismo magico. maybe that's what he likes about Fidel!

[Frederik]

69. "Most latinos"

Except the majority of Venezuelans.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

66. Yes, if they're getting their news from Univision, which

was founded by a Mexican TV network but is based in Los Angeles, gets much of its programming from Miami and currently has Grupo Cisneros of Venezuela as one of its major stockholders. Grupo Cisneros is part of the anti-Chavez faction.

Most of its original programming comes from Miami, and the rest comes from either Mexico or Venezuela.

This is what I've learned from various Googled sources.

[reality based]

17. Venezuela long had a corrupt system that operated with the trappings of

democracy. The overwhelming majority of its citizens were locked in poverty. The benefits of their oil enriched economy were shared with a relatively small middle class. Chavez came to power in a free election that rejected the old political parties and has proceeded to attempt to broaden opportunity, improving education, health care, housing, economic opportunity for the poorer classes. He has been vigorously opposed by the privileged classes who control almost all the private media in the country. Because of his military background Chavez has maintained the loyalty of most of the military. He and the Venezuelan poor are making some progress despite a middle class strike that almost destroyed the country's economy before rising oil prices brought it back. He has taken steps to make the state owned oil enterprise more responsible. His great challenge is to use oil profits for effectively developing other sectors of the economy. The opposition tried a coup against him, apparently with the support of the US, but it failed when the people and the military did not support it. Chavez has been remarkably tolerant and democratic in dealing with his opponents perhaps because he has the overwhelming support of the people.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. He's the guy Carville worked to defeat. For a fee.

[Cocottelle]

30. BE CAREFUL

where you get your info. from. I have read on this website about the wonderful things Chavez has done for the poor. THE TRUTH is, that is what CHAVEZ and his government SAY they have done for the poor. For example, they said they had built 100 thou new homes for the poor, it turns out they did not even finish 100.

[peacetalksforall]

32. The U.S. and banks and IMF have called the shots in Venezuela

for decades. The normal teams of government and corporations made deals with Venues leaders while the number of poor increased (Venez was one of the countries with very rich people and very poor with a nearly invisible middle class. The U.S. tried to arrange a coup, succeeded in outing him, but the people revolted. (There is a documentary about it - an excellent one.) The coup involved the typical grand style merger of U.S. military, intelligence, state dept, nsc, and various department heads along with the corporations who would have benefited the most.

Chavez is standing up to the U.S. cleverly and resolutely. He wants the poor to benefit from their oil. He wants them educated. He wants Venezuelans to be in charge of the earth resources of Venezuela, with the U.S. as a customer, but not the owner of the oil and not the boss.

Many people recognize that the U.S. tried to take him out around the time they succeeded in taking out Aristede (there is also oil off the coasts of Haiti and Cuba...so it is claimed).

Chavez is friendly with Castro, therefore the right wing infers that Chavez is a communist. They take the socialist ideas of Chavez and call them communistic. Since Chavez is friendly with Castro, Cuban-Americans despise Chavez.

Chavez has a lot of backing among the leaders of other countries in South America. It appears there is an attitude change taking place by the once submissive countries as in submissive to the U.S. teams of diplomats, diplomat partners in the business world, all the bankers, intelligence, World Bank, IMF, etc.

Simplistic, but a start to explore or disprove.

[knowbody0]

35. an elected dictator?

they also call him communist, because he is giving property back to peasants

[Mich Otter]

39. Why Chavez is so bad...

If you want to get the approval of the American government you have to let the multi-national corporations have all of your resources, keep most of your workers in poverty, and make profits for the IMF and World Bank by selling out your own people.
Chavez is making big time enemies by bucking the system. The wealthy are threatened anytime they might have to pay more in wages and share more of the income generated from natural resources.
The American government will continue to pressure Chavez till he surrenders to their wishes or they will kill him.
Ain't Capitalism a wonderful thing?

[Ridiculous Bill]

40. chavez

there is a documentary about Chavez you should see called

THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED

[SeveneightyWhoa]

47. Yup, great doc. Got me interested in the story..

..and showed the true colors of his opponents and the sick games they're capable of playing.

Granted, of course it has its own biases, but there are still people to this day claiming that Chavez supporters started shooting at anti-Chavez demonstrators when the documentary basically showed otherwise.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

67. The documentary shows the opponents of Chavez as

smug country club Republican types.

They "restored democracy" by dissolving the legislature and the supreme court.

[anarchy1999]

46. Please read anything Al Giordano has to say.

http://www.narconews.com/

SF IMC Interviews Al Giordano on Venezuela, the media, and anarchism
by nessie Friday December 20, 2002 at 12:10 PM

Like most gringos, I know very little about Venezuela. Since things seem to be heating up there, I figured it was time to lay at least some of my ignorance to rest. So I asked an expert.

Al Giordano is the publisher of The Narco News Bulletin

http://www.narconews.com/

reporting on the drug war and democracy “from somewhere in a country called América.” That is, the América with an accent, South of the Border.

A former political reporter for the Boston Phoenix, Giordano has also written for The Nation, The Washington Post, American Journalism Review, Evergreen Review, IndyMedia, and scores of other periodicals. He is also a veteran radio, TV, and Internet journalist.

A year ago, Giordano, Narco News, and Mexican journalist Mario Menendez, won a precedent-setting decision from the New York Supreme Court after they were sued by the National Bank of Mexico (Banamex, a subsidiary of Citigroup) for publishing photos and evidence of cocaine trafficking by the bank’s owner. The Court ruled in Giordano's favor, establishing, for the first time, that Internet journalists have the same First Amendment rights as the New York Times under U.S. law. The precedent applies to IndyMedia, too.

The court order appears on the website of the Bay Area's own Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), which had filed an amicus brief in defense of Narco News and Giordano:

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/1552703.php



http://www.google.com/custom?q=venezuela&sa=Go&cof=+T%3Awhite%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fnarconews.com%2Fnnbanner6.jpg%3BGFNT%3Agrey%3BLC%3Ayellow%3BBGC%3Ablack%3BAH%3Acenter%3BGL%3A2%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fnarconews.com%3BGALT%3Ared%3BAWFID%3Aabcde338c7ad74f8%3B&domains=narconews.com&sitesearch=narconews.com&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

A Narco News White Paper: Three Days that Shook the Media
... The failed coup d'etat against Venezuela marks a turning point not just for ... That an attempted coup d'etat was underway in Venezuela was evident ...
www.narconews.com/threedays.html - 55k - Cached - Similar pages

Narco News: Participatory Democracy in Venezuela
... CARACAS, VENEZUELA; OCTOBER 2003: There is a beautiful little section in the ... “What we have in Venezuela is ‘participatory democracy,’ and went on to ...
www.narconews.com/Issue31/article883.html - 16k - Cached - Similar pages

Narco News: Can You Believe Venezuela’s Pollsters?
... Miller describes Gil Yepes as a man of “Venezuela’s elite” who “moves in ... The known political partisanship of Venezuela’s pollsters causes all sorts ...
www.narconews.com/Issue27/article594.html - 24k - Cached - Similar pages

Narco News: América Reborn: 32 Nations Back Venezuela
... of the democratically elected government of Hugo Chávez of Venezuela. ... the Carter Center and the United Nations to promote dialogue in Venezuela, ...
www.narconews.com/Issue26/article566.html - 10k - May 23, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages

Narco News: AP’s One-Sided Venezuela Coverage
... And looking at the coverage AP has provided on Venezuela for the last two weeks ... Take AP Venezuela correspondent Alexandra Olson for example: She has ...
www.narconews.com/Issue26/article567.html - 30k - Cached - Similar pages

Narco News: Coup d'etat in Venezuela
... contact with key sources in Venezuela throughout the day and night. ... who led the coup has now been installed as unelected "president" of Venezuela: ...
www.narconews.com/venezuelacoup1.html - 18k - Cached - Similar pages

Narco News: Narco News: Venezuela Full Coverage
... The Venezuela Papers. Archives from December's Strike that Wasn't... and from April's Failed Coup d'etat. Fatal error: Call to undefined function: ...
www.narconews.com/docs/ven_archive.html - 6k - Cached - Similar pages

Narco News: Kim Alphandary Reports on US Coup Plot in Venezuela
... The democratically elected, progressive government of Venezuela has been ... "In fact, perhaps Venezuela is the truest democracy in the world today." ...
www.narconews.com/alphandary2.html - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

Narco News: Gaviria Should Leave Venezuela
... the final defeat of dictatorial power in Venezuela came last night at ... In recent days, Gaviria has ostensibly been in Venezuela as a “mediator” of ...
www.narconews.com/Issue26/article558.html - 16k - Cached - Similar pages

Narco News: Bush’s Desperate Venezuela Statement
... Early Elections” in Venezuela inadvertently reveals the Bush administration’s efforts ... and Jeb Bush should print the ballots, next time in Venezuela. ...

[aion]

57. He is Populist, hated by the plutocrats

There is not much more than you need to know than that... The rich hate him, because he stands up for the poor. In theory, a country which needs the foreign influx of capital, as Venezuela does, must agree to certain demands of the foreign capitalists before that influx of capital will commence. The markets must be opened up, publically-owned utilities/etc. must be sold to the highest bidder -- it's pretty much an auction of the nation.

Chavez has stood up against this. Normally, an executive can't make the decision that Chavez has made. The world bankers and IMF would get their way, or the starve the people into revolution. But because Chavez has a NECESSARY commodity (oil) the world cannot boycott him as they normally would.

[jim3775]

59. Just wondering,

Other than narconews are there any good blogs that cover South American events? I'm trying to get a bunch of regional blogs added to my newsreader.

[foo_bar]

63. there's a thorough indymedia article, but it's in French

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://nice.indymedia.org/article.php3%3Fid_article%3D460&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dchavez%2Blulu%2Bchirac%2Biran%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2004-44,GGLD:en

I apologize in advance for the Franglish translation, mais hilarite ensues:

Cuba being déja itching powder government of the United States, the answer to the policy collectivist of president Chavez, democratically elected, sest not made wait.

Conspirators of pacotille, men daffaires of lextrême right néolibérale, pseudo trade-union leaders corrompus supported by ultra - reactionaries dorigine cuban of Miami, try by all the means with their range dattaquer the revolution bolivarienne directed by the president of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez.

Just like Rome sest not made in one day, to carry out the essential transformations in a country like Venezuela, ransacked and victim of the corruption founded by the preceding governments, nest not easy and it is necessary time before the results can be tangible. Moreover certain sectors of the population, in particular the dentreprise heads and the easy classes, consider that the measurements taken by the government dHugo Chavez affect their interests.

Cest like as of the first day, when three years ago, the government of president Chavez A starts to adopt measures in favour of poorest, it sest attracted lopposition of all those which sestimaient injured. The current situation in Venezuela recalls that of Guatemala at the time of linstauration of democratic governments after the revolution of October 20 l944 which were shown of all the possible misdeeds quite simply parce quils had had laudace to create schools, to douvrir roads, to distribute the uncultivated lands to the poor peasants, of promulgating laws guaranteeing the rights of the workers and to crown the whole to start to make a shy person competes with with large transnational American which operated in this country centraméricain.

en Francais:
http://nice.indymedia.org/article.php3?id_article=460