Hey DUers! The PERCEPTION of being WINNERS is as important as a WIN.

[LynnTheDem]

The rightwingnuttery sees us as having WON.

The rightwingnuttery sees themselves as having LOST.

In the arena of Public Opinion, WE WON; the vast majority of Americans OPPOSE ending the filibuster. If we'd forced a show-down and lost, WE would be blamed for having forced the show-down, having ":forced" the republicans into ending something the vast majority of Americans don't want ended.

While we're being called WINNERS let's ACCEPT it!

The perception of being the winner is a vital part of BEING winners.

WE WON. The rightwingnuttery SAYS WE WON. ACCEPT IT!

Great! Fantastic! Let's carry on!

[BigBearJohn]

1. I agree 100% The pugs are whining -- we won -- Read what they say:

"This Senate agreement represents a complete bailout and betrayal by a cabal of Republicans and a great victory for united Democrats"...

"We share the disappointment, outrage and sense of abandonment felt by millions of conservative Americans who helped put Republicans in power last November."

The Republicans who lent their names to this travesty have undercut their President as well as millions of their most loyal voters. Shame on them all.”

HA! they are eating their own.
I LOVE IT!


See http://blog.pdamerica.org/?p=77

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. The RW's won, they just don't realize it.

They will when they finish packing the SCOTUS.

[LynnTheDem]

4. And IF we'd forced a show-down, we would have lost, we would be blamed

by the vast majority of the Public as having forced the show-down, ending something the vast majority DON'T want ended, (we don't own the media, remember. The right would spin it as us bad mean libruls FORCING them into a show-down & ending the filibuster) and the right would STILL be able to pack the courts.

Then after being seen as LOSERS by the rightwing radicals, AND by the vast majority of the Public, and demanded full readings of every bill, we'd be attacked for being "obstructionist" AND the Public would see us as vengeful & childish.

Instead, the Public is seeing the rightwingnuts as being the losers & childish, and us as being the reasonable adults.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. What's so "reasonable" about 3 fascist judges?

If they'd forced a showdown, they'd have been seen by the public as having principles.

Something in short supply among the Dems who sold out for a "promise" that the repugs will abide by the "compromise". And, not use the nuke to threaten the lapdogs into submission again..and..again..and...again.

As to the "public seeing..". I got news for you. The "public" isn't interested in anything that doesn't affect their ability to shop.

[LynnTheDem]

38. You want 100%. Well we didn't GET 100%. We WON'T get 100%. TOUGH.

I'm sorry you are unable to see the LOSS for the right in this. Funny how even the RIGHT sees it, but hey, whatever.

[Fridays Child]

3. Thank you. If we didn't learn that lesson back in 2000...

...we're doomed.

[Gold Metal Flake]

5. I approve of this post!

Good point!

:hi:

[Melodybe]

24. Me too, kicked and nominated.

[KarenS]

6. I agree !!! Anything that makes 'them' crazy, makes me happy.

Honestly, I was not that happy, when I got that 'breaking news' email,,,,, but as I began to read how angry the other side is,,,, and how it was not good for Frist,,,, What can I say?? ~ except that I am pleased.

[wicket]

7. I agree completely!

Well said.

:kick:

[RevolutionStartsNow]

8. Loss for them = victory for us

I can't believe that I keep reading about people being "in mourning" about this compromise. Frist LOST his Great Big Battle.

I am as suspicious as the next guy at any kind of deal with certain factions of the GOP, but I'm going to take this one as a victory, if only because it's so clearly a loss for them.

[LynnTheDem]

10. Absolutely! Some DUers are angry at us not winning 100%...yet they get

angry at bushCartel & the rightwingnuttery for DEMANDING THEY get 100% wins!

This is being seen as a WIN for us, and every time we say noooo we loooost, then that "no, we're losers" is what the media will pick up on and we just end up making it come true.

THINK like WINNERS! ACT like WINNERS! ACCEPT WINS when the right whines about how WE WON!

[Robbien]

9. Newsweek said they were wrong, so they are. Dems need to learn

from that and from all the other propaganda tactics out there being used by BushCo.

This is a loss for the GOP/Dobson thus a win for Dems.

Stop rejecting wins.

[LynnTheDem]

11. Exactly!

THINK and ACT like WINNERS and we will be seen as WINNERS.

Call ourselves losers and we will make ourselves losers.

[Robbien]

14. Right wing talk radio keeps spinning this as a loss for the GOP

There is a very good entry at Kos which has a great idea:

I just spent a couple hours in my car so I had the chance to hear what the talk radio wing of the GOP is saying about the deal. Dope head Limbaugh may need a little chippy of hillbilly heroin to calm down. Slope head Hannity may actually muss his hair. They both have their listeners frothing at the mouth. Usually the Talk Radio wing hurts us. This time I think they are helpng.

There are plenty of things in this deal that are worth complaining about. But from a PR standpoint we are getting a gift. We have the deal that Reid was offering weeks ago coming to fruition. By spinning it that way and allowing the extremists to boil over on the right we get the eyes of the moderates looking at both sides and seeing us as the reasonable ones.

But it will take work.

IMO the best thing we can do right now is spin this in our favor. Say we are not happy with all aspects of the deal but are very happy that a compromise was reached. Use ideas like "America wins" or "The Founding Ideals of this country win." Make the extremists on the right the story. And let them carry the ball from there. We've seen the way the public reacts when they over reach.

I know for a lot of people this seems like capitulation. I don't see it that way. If there is one thing Bush has taught us it's that claiming victory even when defeat is obvious is a winning formula. With the Talk Radio wing enflaming their listeners, it makes it that much easier to claim victory and make it stick.

[Generator]

12. Uh Time will tell

Even Dean said so. So it must be true.

UNTIL we use the filibuster and they don't nuclear-then we will have won. That day is not here.

We didn't win..they lost absolute power for the moment. And the moment only. But they are such scumsuckin fascist pigs..even a second delay (not Delay..har har) in eating the whole cake makes them crazy. Why? Becaue they are already crazy. And something posted on Free Republic is not my defintion of a win. I think people are seriously deluded.

Why would anyone trust anything any Republican says? I remember when McCain was the "good Republican". And now? Who would you trust with a decision that was life or death-any of them? Really? I think you'd be a fool. But maybe they aren't the pure evil I imagine them to be. I hope you are right.

[MadHound]

13. Yeah, right, that's great and all

Until this "win" turns around and bites us in the ass. Ashcroft on the Supreme Court? You bet!

The 'Pugs are pissed that Fascist America didn't come into being today, instead, it got postponed. Doesn't mean that it won't come about, it was simply delayed for a few days, weeks, months, year at most.

Me, I'm pissed that the Dems once again snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, a victory that would have truly slammed the Neo-Cons back to the darkness. We had the votes, we had the moral high ground, we had the public on our side. And we fucking blew it. We got bluffed badly, and now we're trumpeting about how the Dems "won" Whatever, meanwhile there is going to be a whole fucking parade of vile nominees getting confirmed, and while the Senate Dems have enough money and power to escape the worse effects of these judges ascendancy, you and I, the ordinary folks, are going to get hammered.

So go ahead and dance and sing, celebrate a "victory" which is in name, and spin, only. Me, I'm going to go home, and continue to prepare myself, my life and loved ones for the coming fascist shitstorm. This deal did nothing to stop that, or even slow it down. But hey, I'm one of those fucking Eeyores, what the fuck do I know:shrug:

[LynnTheDem]

17. WHAT "victory"??? We would have LOST a showdown, the right

would be chanting their HUGE WIN all over the media, the Public would blame us for the ending of filibusters, which the majority of the Public DON'T want ended.

And the right would continue packing the courts.

If we by some miracle won the showdown, we'd be demonized throughout the media as having yet again RAMMED and FORCED our beliefs down the Public's throats.

Right now,w e're SEEN as having WON, we're seen as being the REASONABLE side. Gee isn't that AWFUL!

:eyes:

[MadHound]

18. We would have lost the showdown?

Please friend, we had the moral highground, we had public opinion on our side in overwhelming numbers(like 78%). We needed six votes, and already had three declared(McCain, Chaffee, and Snow), at least two getting swayed over in a big way(Warner and Collins), with many others getting hammered by the public to vote against the nuclear option, with both Spectre and Graham making noises that they were going to do their constituents bidding last week.

It was in the fucking bag.

So the RW crazies are gnashing their teeth, big deal. When the reality that they have the three crazies hitting the court circut hits, they'll be all fine and dandy. When the realization hits them that the Dems can't use the filibuster option without first asking the 'Pugs, they'll be much happier. When Ashcroft is rammed through the Senate with absolutely no resistance, they'll be fucking ecstatic.

Don't think that these peoples' wailing and whining means that we've actually won something, we haven't. These folks were all set for fascism to be codified today, and instead it got postponed. Not canceled, but postponed. This is what all the noise is about, nothing more, and when they all calm down and realize this, then the shit storm will really hit.

So yeah, go drink and be merry if you wish. I hear thunder over the horizon friend, and it is time to hunker down and survive. Don't get caught out in the hard rain that is coming.

[LynnTheDem]

27. We DIDN'T have the VOTES.

Period.

[MadHound]

32. Sorry, but we did friend

McCain, Snowe, Chaffee were in the bag

Warner and Collins were falling into our camp.

Graham, Spectre, and Coleman were talking out both sides of their mouth, but if you listened carefully, you could tell they would vote against the nuke option. Also, they were getting hammered by their constituents

Frist was playing a bluff, and the Dems folded. We gave away the cow for some magic beans that will bear no fruit.

Look, if you wish to believe that we would have lost, if that helps take the sting out of this smackdown, fine, I will not deny anybody their fantasy. But out here in the real world, it sure looks like another Democratic battle formation to me, fall in line, then roll over. Same thing we've seen time and again for the past five years.

[LynnTheDem]

39. Sorry but no we did not.

But we can force the showdown to a vote tomorrow. Or next week. Or next month. If we want to.

Frist LOST.

Frist WANTED THE VOTE.

Frist didn't get what he wanted and he's being torn a new one by the rightwingnut radicals right now.

If you think Frist or any other rightwingnut can ACT like total losers, then you give them far more credit than I do.

[MadHound]

42. Of course the wingnuts are pissed!

They didn't get their fascist state today, they're going to have to wait on on it for a little while. Boo fucking hoo! They're spoiled little children, who rant and cry when you make them wait for their candy an extra fifteen minutes.

But just because we managed to stall for a little while, it still doesn't mean we've won friend, we've just put off the shitstorm for another day. And in the bargain we've frittered away the moral high ground(which we had) and public support(which we also had). Now then, if the Dems ever come back and breath the word filibuster, no matter who the nominee is, the 'Pug echo chamber will start screaming that we're breaking the contract, that we're not playing fair, etc. etc. and it will get spun out from there. And the sheeple people will buy into the BS, and we'll be screwed.

Frist was bluffing. He either knew he didn't have the votes, or he wasn't sure. Hell, that's why the vote was put off from last week, to give he time to scare the Dems into a deal. Guess what, the Dems did get scared, and they did do a deal. And sad to say, we all lost.

This was our possibly last, best chance of stopping the 'Pugs from steamrolling this country. We had the numbers, the moral highground, and public sentiment. And we gave it all away for a promise and some magic beans.

[LynnTheDem]

47. No it is not our last possibility. At the very worst, we're where we were

a week ago, a year ago, 4 years ago.

And now, at the very least, we have a chance to push public opinion further against the rightwing's dictatorship plans.

The rightwingnuts wanted the vote. They didn't get the vote. They lost.

"Moral highground" won't buy you a cup of coffee. We did not have the votes.

[MadHound]

45. dupe, self delete, n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. We DID lose a shodown to the right. The Dems surrendered.

We got a "promise" and they got everything they wanted.

[LynnTheDem]

26. Whatever.

They DID NOT get "everything they wanted". They WANTED a vote and the end to filibustering. THEY didn't get that.

Go listen (if you can bear it) to pigboy & Hannity etc. They DIDN'T get what they wanted & they're attacking their own for it.

[BillZBubb]

15. Sure, let's carry on.

We win! Priscilla Owens is on the court, but we WIN! Pryor is on the court, but we WIN! Johnson is on the court but WE WIN! Yippee!!!!

The Republicans gave up nothing, yet achieved all their objectives. The Democrats gave up any pretext of a fight and will accept all the worst Bush nominees.

A few more wins like this and the Democrats might as well fold up the tent.

[LynnTheDem]

16. Fine. BLoody fine. We should have forced the showdown, LOST the

showdown, been seen as LOSERS by the right, who would be seen as HUGE winners, be seen by the majority of the public as the ones to BLAME for ending something the public doesn't want ended.

And the right would carry on packing the courts anyways.

But hey! Then we could whine & bitvch & moan about what total LOSERS we are!

Geeez!

[BillZBubb]

25. Bullshit.

If the Democrats would have FOUGHT the change in Senate rules, people would have figured out exactly who made the power grab. We could use that effectively in the next few elections.

Instead the Democrats are seen once again as the party that will compromise on any issue without a serious fight. If Priscilla Owens is unfit to be on the court and we believe that, then keeping her off the court is worth a fight. Now, the Democrats have reversed themselves and said if she gets a majority vote, that's OK.

The right is going to pack the courts anyways, that's why the fight should have been made.

By forcing the showdown on the filibuster (assuming we lost the vote) we would win in the long run. The Repugs would be seen as power mad and not playing by the rules. The Democrats would be seen as principled and fighting for what they believe in. When we do get a Dem president and Senate, we can then do unto them. They block more Dem nominees than we do of theirs, so it's a net plus in time.

We would also have the Senate Dems forcing an agenda on the Repugs instead of the other way around. Reid could begin the slowdown procedures while pushing Democratic bills. The Repugs could whine about Democratic obstructionism, but the public wouldn't buy it--since they'd know the Repugs killed the filibuster and have a total majority. Failure would fall right where it belonged--on them.

Geez is right! Maybe someday this party will get some spine and at least some long term strategic capability.

[LynnTheDem]

30. Yep just like the American public realized Iraq had nothing to do w 911

and bush was lying his ass off about WMD etc.

Yeah the American public sure realized that with us all speaking out at the time!

Oh wait...

Geez.

So FINE. CALL us all LOSERS (while the rethugs call us the winners).

It will be a self-fulfilled prophecy & then we'll all be happy we can bitch & moan about what total losers we are! BRILLIANT!

[MADem]

70. Nonsense

At the time, the Dems would have been painted as obstructionist assholes who were thwarting the progress of governance and the workings of the Congress. No one CARED back then.

The things that are making people sick are all very RECENT events, and are the the things that are also making people support this Gang of 14 business--the Schiavo case, Justice Sunday, no stem cell research, rising dead in Iraq, increasing, but still slow, realization that the WMD justification was bullshit, a beginning of an understanding that Osama is not Saddam (the underwear pic may have helped, there!)...the GOP took it a step or ten too far, and this is the slap in the face they richly deserve.

When we don't have a majority, we don't "force" anything, least of all our pathetic little agenda. We'd be laughed at and steamrollered, slammed by the public for making trouble, and painted as WHINING losers. Democratic bills would never get a hearing--the news would be full of accounts of what assholes we were being.

With this deal among 14 sane people, instead, we get a lovely half glass of clear, cool water, instead of a bucket of shit thrown in our faces.

We have to live in the real world/

[MADem]

69. Some people see a half empty glass

...they get angry, wave their arms about, and knock the glass over, and have nothing.

Like you, I see a half full glass. This is very, very good for us. It is a "right track" (as opposed to wrong track) trend. The public likes it, too.

We get nowhere by being professional victims. We didn't have the votes, no matter how people speculate, Specter was standing with PissyFrist today, Chafee relies on the RNC for campaign cash, as do most of the others. The GOP members that joined the Gang of 14, at least half of them would have caved individually. They are drawing their strength from John Warner, who is one tough bastards who knows how to throw his weight around. It is apparent that he has had ENOUGH (and with the liberal population of NoVA growing every day, he has to respond to his constituency, too).

In effect, the 14 have formed a closet "Leadership Committee" to check the efforts of WH Lapdog Frist. No more whispered orders from Rove. DAYLIGHT, TRANSPARENCY, and collegiality.

It's good, it's all good. And absent a Democratic majority, it works for me!

[Sterling]

53. might as well ?

The tent was folded up and packed away a while back. am not sure exactly when but it is clear at this point that the Circus has left town.

[SmokingJacket]

19. Oh, yeah, I forgot we live in Bizarro World now.

The repubs say we won because they got three instead of all five judges and they won't nuke us if we are nice and promise not to exercise our right to filibuster. WOW! WE SO WON!

:crazy:

Yeah... I'd be thrilled about all this republican gnashing of teeth, except it doesn't smell right.

[housewolf]

22. You are SOooo Right!

We experienced a good victory yesterday.

Are we just SO used to failure that we can't see victory even when it's handed to us????


Folks, we would have lost the nuclear option vote. We didn't have the votes. Frist did. DeWine & Graham said on tv last night that they were prepared to vote FOR the nuclear option even though they didn't want it. At Best we had 5 repub votes and we needed 6. WE DID NOT HAVE THE VOTES TO WIN. In comparison to the loss we would have suffered had we lost the nuclear option vote, we were given a HUGE victory. Owen, Brown and Pryor were going to come up for a vote anyway. So were Myers and Saad had the nuclear option vote happened. Now they're not - we won on these two. Two others are not coming out of committee - we won on those.

Why do so many of us prefer to see this as a loss? I just don't get it...

And here what we really won - a place at the table to consult on nominations before they occur. An opportunity to have a voice in who gets put up for nomination and who doesn't.

We've criticized the repubs for wanting everything their way all the time. But so do we. The thing is, we are a minority party. We don't have the power to get our way simply by virtue of our numbers. The nuclear option would have been a HUGE loss for us.

[BillZBubb]

29. You REALLY believe we'll get a place at the table?

If so, you haven't been paying attention. This Repug crowd is going to do exactly what they want to do when they want to do it. Especially now since they see how quickly the Dems caved.

[housewolf]

33. I've been paying plenty of attention...

and I don't see that we "caved" at all

And yes, I really believe that we'll have a place at the table now, because "the table" comes from the "gang of 14" of which we are half.

[ginnyinWI]

31. you saved me having to write a post

I agree with every point you made! Thanks :)

[LynnTheDem]

34. Well said,

Exactly.

[FubarFly]

23. So we should be content, while their outrage forces change?

No, no, and no.

Of course that's not what you're actually saying. But I don't believe it behooves us to call this a victory when we all know it's not. We have to apply as much pressure as possible to stop the confirmation of Owen, Pryor, and the rest of these unsuitable nominees. It's hard to do this if we are already acting like winners.

[FlemingsGhost]

28. ... and the perception of freedom is just as good as the real thing

Just ask an Iraqi.

Your logic is laughable.

[LynnTheDem]

35. Nice strawman!

And nice try, but your strawman is very laughable. And if that is your logic...

[FlemingsGhost]

36. It just the perception of a snowman, really. (n/t)

Flem.

[LynnTheDem]

65. And PERCEPTION DIDN'T win the rethugs the entire country; nope, they

REALLY ARE everything they tell Americans they are. Yep, the rethug Party really IS the "family values" bunch, uh huh. And they really ARE "stong on defense" and they really ARE "tough on terrorism" and they really ARE the "moral" party, uh huh. NOTHING to do with PERCEPTION at all!

LOL!!!

[progressoid]

37. "Hey this hole in my foot feels great!"

Ummm, so since the funny-mentals are complaining louder about the holes in their collective feet, that makes it a win?

[LynnTheDem]

40. Yep.

We lost LESS than they did.

And if we go around crying & moaning about what LOSERS we are then WHY THE F*CK WOULD ANYONE VOTE FOR US???!

So yeah, let's go around maonuing and whining and bitching about what LOSERS DEMS ARE.

HEY EVERYBODY DEMS CAVED DEMS ARE LOSERS!!! DON'T LISTEN TO THE RIGHTWINGERS SAYING WE WON & THEY LOST! WE ARE THE REAL LOSERS!!!

There. That oughta win big for us in 2006.

[FlemingsGhost]

43. Arrrrrrrrrgh! ...

Well, okay ... you win.

We mustn't hurt our chances to lose the next rigged election.


Good luck with that, by the way.

[LynnTheDem]

46. No, we'll let you win...how's this?

DEMS SUCK! DEMS ARE LOSERS! DEMS CAVED! IGNORE THE RIGHTWING SAYING DEMS WON! DEMS ARE THE REAL LOSERS!!!

Happy?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

48. Lynn!

You just made me laugh! In spite of everything here on DU today, I laughed so hard I almost wet my pants!

Thanks!

:yourock:

[LynnTheDem]

49. LOL!!!

Glad to be of service to a fellow Texan.

:D

:yourock: too!

[Dave Reynolds]

41. So CNN playing pResident Fucknuts

over and over and over saying "Finally we have some progress" makes us look like winners?

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I guess I can't see how anything has changed, other than 3 wingnut judges get through, and Frist starts it all up again when Rehnquist dies.

[LynnTheDem]

51. If bush is saying that, then we know for SURE that we did in fact WIN.

because every time bush calls something "progress"....

[Dave Reynolds]

52. I know *I* laughed,

but dammit it just bugs me.

I'll just slap myself for watching CNN in the first place.

[LynnTheDem]

54. LOL!

Yeah bugs me too, when he declares "progress" when my hubby's unit loses men to IEDs.

bush is a criminally insane sociopath and that REALLY bugs me! Just hang in there; at least we can try -and are in many ways succeeding- to limit the damage.

Coz damage control is about the best we can do, with 40 seats out of 100, and the other 60 seats filled with idiots.

:hug:

[MADem]

71. Change the channel, that is CIA news anyway

Switch to Faux, and watch them wail and gnash their teeth.

Switch to MSNBC, and watch the GOP bitch in petulant fashion, responded to by Dems who are saying this will bring a bit of equilibrium back to the 'cooling saucer' of the Senate.

I'll take a half step to the right of center over being steamrollered, marginalized, and destroyed any day.

We'll never win if we can't even get on the playing field. In order to implement our strategy, we have to use tactics. This is a good one.

[Ms. Clio]

44. The rightwingnuts aren't the guys who really matter, though

I haven't seen any outrage from the Corporatist wing of the Republican party, have you? If I've missed something, please let me know, as you are the person who always has the links! They get Owens and Rogers-Brown and Pryor, and that's just for openers.

But hell, I hate raining on the parade. Okay, enjoy the radical meltdown, but remember they aren't the guys who are really running this show.

[LynnTheDem]

50. They are a big part of bush's base. And this screws them over yet again.

And the more they get screwed over by the right, the louder and more insane they get. And that turns off moderates and THOSE are the ones we need to court to overcome Diebold.

We are, at the very worst, exactly where we were weeks ago when Reid offered the EXACT SAME DEAL that the rethugs called "paltry and unprincipled" then, that yesterday the rethugs accepted. SAME DEAL.

If we had forced a showdown and lost that vote -and it's more likely we would have lost it because we were 2 votes short that we knew of- THEN we would have lost. A BIG loss.

And bush would still have got his Owens and the other 2 nuts, PLUS anyone else he wanted. ANYONE.

Now, at the very least, we have time to keep working on the moderates about how these judicial nuts mustn't be permitted in, on how radical an insane lunatic bush really is, and his radical looney tunes rightwingnut fundies etc.

We have at the least bought time, have the rightwingnuts attacking each other which should only help ADD to support for our side of the issue, have the rightwingnuts publicly calling this a "GREAT VICTORY" for the Dems and a huge loss for themselves, STILL have the filibuster, can always force a showdown vote later on, and yes we pay by bush getting votes on his 3 lunatics.

But if we'd lost a showdown vote, bush would have got his 3...and ANYONE else he ever wanted.

[Ms. Clio]

57. But isn't he going to get those three and everyone else he wants?

Anyway? This just seems like putting the battle off to another day that will never come. And if we couldn't win it now, why should we be able to win it then? Maybe we've just postponed the big loss, and it will happen during the SC battle, after several more of these relatively young, highly dangerous extremist judges have already been confirmed.

I don't watch much television, so I'm obviously not getting the full delicious effect of what you and others perceive as a rightwing meltdown.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see how this one turns out, but this is what I read today:

Frist issues new warning on filibusters
Senate majority leader says he will seek rule change
if Democrats continue blocking judicial nominees

(snip)

A fragile deal
Thus Frist made it clear only 18 hours after the accord was announced just how brittle it was. It seemed that a decisive vote over filibusters of judicial nominees had only been deferred for a while.

(snip)

Senate strategists were looking to a key date on the calendar: June 27, the last day of the Supreme Court’s term and often the day on which retiring justices have announced their retirements.

(snip)

The GOP leadership expects at least two of the Republican senators who signed Monday night’s “Memorandum of Understanding on Judicial Nominations” — Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Sen. Mike DeWine of Ohio — to back Frist by voting for the rule change, if Democrats revert to filibustering.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7967386


I just don't have a good feeling about this--I'm much happier about the stem cell vote today.

Hasta luego. :)

[LynnTheDem]

59. No.

Because the Dems can still filibuster.

And if bush pushes, then the Dems will filibuster.

And lose. Because we don't have the votes.

But at the very least:

-we have bought some time to keep showing what's wrong about allowing bushCartel to end the filibuster

-the rightwingnuts are attacking each other, which is good for our side

-we can say we did all we could to come to a reasonable agreement

And screw Frist; 7 Republicans made a deal. Frist is trying to save face after his whopping defeat and the attakcs he's taking from his rightwingnuttery. He can flap his lips all he likes; the more the better, because the people he's attacking are REPUBLICANS that are popular with America's mainstream Republicans.

Sure we MIGHT lose everything tomorrow. Or next week. Or next year. Or maybe we all lose when Mars attacks.

But we DIDN'T lose today. THEY did.

All we can do is damage control as best as we, as a small minority, can do at this time.

The rightwing is saying we won; PUBLIC PERCEPTION IS the sum game in politics...unless Dems actually think that the way rethugs are PERCEIVED equals what they really are! ;)

[housewolf]

55. Keep up the good work, Lynn....

There are some real hard-heads here. You're doing a good job of getting through to some of them.


:yourock:

[LynnTheDem]

56. Thanks, housewolf! Mostly I feel not only do all rethugs hate my guts...

but that I'm doing real good on adding the left to that list, lol!

:hug:

[indigonation]

58. I'm now convinced we won this

Just by the bitching and moaning over at the freepers:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=filibuster

[LynnTheDem]

60. They are whining a lot today, aren't they

:D

LOVIN' IT!

[FlemingsGhost]

62. You will be the only one I say, "I told you so."

See you later.

[LynnTheDem]

64. ROTFL!!!

Now WHY does your remark NOT surprise me???

LOL!

[AirAmFan]

61. The level of defeatism here on DU is ASTOUNDING!

And many of the posters who did not hesitate to start "We lost!" threads obviously had not bothered to read the actual text of the Memo of Understanding, at http://www.buzzflash.com/alerts/05/05/TheDeal.pdf .

[FlemingsGhost]

63. Only to be outdone by naiveté and denial.

A lot of Democrats are making fools of themselves regarding this "victory."

[LynnTheDem]

66. Fleming wants us all to say "DEMS ARE LOSERS!!! DEMS CAVED!!!

DON'T VOTE FOR DEMS, THEY'RE LOSERS!!! IGNORE THE RIGHTWING SAYING WE WON & THEY LOST COZ IT'S NOT TRUE!!! DEMS ARE THE REAL LOSERS!!!"

Not this Dem, that's for damn sure. But then, this Dem doesn't demand or expect 100% from a party that has 40 seats out of 100. This Dem is pretty damn happy when a 40-seat party is able to do damage control and at the least give us breathing space. :)

[nonconformist]

67. I thought this was a parody thread! nt

[applegrove]

68. We will not have won if we get decent government back. We will

still have lost so much to them.

They live for winning..because they are idiots and vain and sick puppies.

We just want to safe, secure and decent lives. We are not asking for more than we had before. We've given up some ideas even. We know there has to be change in the world. We just don't want to live in a world modeled in their selfish image.

[tavalon]

72. This one I can agree with

Public image/opinion these days is more important than whether it really did come down that way. I'm not being sarcastic.