So the Rethugs are trying to play tough after they took one in the gut.

[xultar]

I have a feeling that they will pull the :nuke: option anywaze and that is what will seal their coffin.

:woohoo: I can't wait! :woohoo:

[napi21]

1. I think those that signed the agreement will stick with it.

They certainly might try to do it again for a SCOTUS nominee, but if the 7 that signed this agreement don't vote for cloture, they can't do the nuke!

[in_cog_ni_to]

5. The agreement SPECIFICALLY states:

"We (the 7 repukes) will not support a rule change in the 109th congress"! They are NOT bound by that agreement next year during the 110th congress.....probably when the SCOTUS nominee will come up.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

6. Things may be much different in the 110th.

There might be no chance at all of the nuclear option passing through the 110th, and conversely, they might not need compromise to pass it. You can't make an agreement when you don't know the circumstances.

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. How will it be different?

Frist will be gone, but the nuclear option is still there and so is Cheney and his puppet chimp. We certainly won't be picking up a majority of Senate seats with the repukes ownng the evoting machines. How will it change?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

10. I wouldn't say we "certainly" won't, however...

You're failing to realize that even if we just pick up a couple of seats, that drastically changes the nature of this debate. Say we pick up 2 seats and two moderate Republicans replace extremists like Santorum. We're in a much better position to defend against the nuclear option, aren't we? Doesn't that completely change the context of the debate?

Conversely, say we lose 2 seats and more extremist Repugs take their place. That completely changes things too, does it not?

On edit: If you have the mentality that there's no hope with the voting machines anyway, why do you bother to make comments at all? Why aren't you preparing for a revolution? Have you just given up completely?

[in_cog_ni_to]

12. How the heck are we going to pick up 2 Senate seats?

The repukes OWN the evoting machine companies and have stolen the last 3 elections. The ONLY WAY we can get rid of the evoting machines is to do a criminal investigation. WHO is going to do that investigation? The repukes? The fox guarding the hen house. They will NEVER relinquish their beloved evoting machines unless there's criminal charges filed and I don't see THAT happening, EVER. So, how do we pick up Senate seats? I'm having a difficult time in figuring that one out.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

15. Then give up.

I'm not going to.

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. You didn't answer my question.

How the heck are we going to pick up Senate seats. PLEASE. Tell me.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

18. You've obviously got your opinion and I'm not going to change it.

You think ALL the voting machines in every voting precinct in the country are rigged. If that IS true, sure, we're fucked. And that's why I am asking why you're not sharpening your sword for revolution.

I don't think that's the case at all. Yeah, I think they are rigged in some parts of the country, but certainly not all, or even a majority of them. But if you're asking specifically, I think we pick up AT LEAST Rhode Island (Chafee) and Pennsylvania (Santorum). We have potential in Missouri (Talent is polling sub 40%), Montana (Burns polling sub 40%), Virginia (highly popular Gov. Warner running against Allen), and Tennessee (open seat). The only true risk we have is Ben Nelson.

[in_cog_ni_to]

and you don't think

the machines in those races will be rigged? I do. Wherever there is a risk of losing a seat or a Dem winning, they will be rigged. IMCPO.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

20. Again, why aren't you working for a revolution if that's what you believe?

Nothing short of that is going to change anything.

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. A revolution?

By myself? Please. and I live in a HUGELY repuke village. I'm surrounded by them. I would be revolting ALONE. Believe me.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

24. You're certainly not alone. There are many likeminded just here on DU.

But really, have you merely given up? If not, what are you doing to change things?

[in_cog_ni_to]

26. aaaaand I am suppose to get rid of evoting machines

how exactly? The Dem leaders have ignored the issue and the repukes are certainly not going to do anything about them. The ONLY way to get rid of them is by filing criminal charges for vote fraud. Again, who is going to investigate? and the repukes most certainly aren't going to listen to little old me. I have emailed and emailed and emailed my Senators, to no avail. So, what am I suppose to do? :shrug:

[in_cog_ni_to]

23. dupe.

[returnable]

37. Wait, wait, wait

So if you don't think the Dems can ever win another election, then what is the point of your argument? Compromise or no compromise under your scenario, the Dems are inevitable losers in 2006 and beyond anyway. Might as well just pack it in.

I don't get it.

[wicket]

8. 110th won't start until January 2007

So we gotta kick their asses in the 2006 mid terms.

:kick:

[in_cog_ni_to]

13. How?

by voting on their repuke owned evoting machines again? :eyes:

[returnable]

38. So it's all over then, right?

We'll never win another election, I guess. So why all the fuss about the compromise? Obviously you believe the ship has already sunk.

[alcibiades_mystery]

9. That's your problem?

If we lose the 2006 election such that they can PASS the nuclear option, then we fucking deserve it. The point is that for the next eighteen months, barring some complete meltdown, the nuke is off the table and any attempt to put it back on the table can be easily protrayed as extreme. Nuking now guarantees a big Dem win in the 2006 election, a win which would make the nuke itself meaningless and even counterproductive for the Republicans. You're worried about the 110th Congress? LOL.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

11. Well said.

Certainly cuts to the heart of the matter.

[in_cog_ni_to]

14. See post 12. n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. Same defeatist crap that infects this board everywhere

The Republicans own the media.
The Republicans own the voting machines.
We cannot beat the Republicans, whatever we do.
But we should fight them.

I used to read a lot about the Eastern Front during World War II, and I was often astonished at the harsh treatment of their own soldiers and civilians by the Russians. They would put any soldier or civilian who expressed the least defeatism in penal companies, which were thrown at the German lines practically unarmed. Anybody retreating would be shot. This is crazy, I thought. But now I see the logic of it. When you are in a political struggle and your ranks are made up of whining defeatists who see every option as impossible, you are weakened as a whole. Here's what I think: You take pleasure from the idea of losing. You love it. So you never win anything. Anything you do win is a defeat, because defeats make you feel better. It's fucking pathetic.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. Funny.

You didn't give ANY suggestion on how we pick up seats in the Senate or how you plan on taking back the elections. Instead you spend your post calling me names. Defeatist.....a BULLSHIT term when I am speaking the fucking TRUTH. Tell me, Mr./Ms. alcibiades_mystery, how do YOU plan on getting the evoting machines away from the repukes? Tell me.

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. If I believed tghe evoting machines had anything to do with it

I'd formulate a strategy.

Since I don't, I won't.

[in_cog_ni_to]

27. but it DID.

3 elections were stolen. Just ask Andy Stephenson.

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. Whatever

I've read through the case and I don't believe it. It's a dogma among many here, but it's not my dogma, and I have no intention of formulating plans to deal with myths and illusions. Moreover, the very idea is part and parcel of the defeatist mindset. I'd rather work on real issues that attribute the real rhetorical loss to the unstoppable machine.

[in_cog_ni_to]

29. Don't believe it and

waste your time, money and efforts. I believed we could win 2004 and wasted thousands of $$$$, wasted hundreds of hours writing campaign letters, wasted hours making phone calls, and spending time and money on fundraisers and traveling to Tennessee to work on Clark's campaign. I'll be damned if I do that again. It's a waste I will not support unless the damn machines are GONE. We will never win as long as that is how we vote. It's a fact.

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. You're a lost cause, then

Go play in your room, cuz you ain't ready for politics.

[in_cog_ni_to]

31. Of course I'm a lost cause

because you don't agree with me. I'll go play in my room as soon as you go sit in your play-pen. You sound like you're about 2? 3? years old?

[alcibiades_mystery]

32. I'm not the one

who still believes there's a monster in the closet. That's you and your voting machine hysteria.

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. Hysteria? Oh, you poor delusional soul.

Perhaps Google could be your new best friend? Google Ohio+evoting machines+fraud+Blackwell+stolen election+2004. See what you get. READ. LEARN.

[alcibiades_mystery]

34. Oh, I've read it all

The only issue that I see as legitimate is the differntial placement of voting equiptment in different districts, which is, of course, a major problem. But your hallucinations about fixed evoting is just nonsense, and worse, extremely counterproductive, since it causes us to focus on a non-issue rather than figuring oput why our rhetoric didn't work, which it didn't. Keep believing in that monster. What you consider "delusion" is obviously the hard reality of adulthood.

[in_cog_ni_to]

35. Explain, then, why is it the evoting machine companies

REFUSE to let anyone look at their software. They insist it's "proprietary". BULLSHIT. Also, Clinton Curtis from Florida who worked for a company and was asked by a repuke (who is now a congressman) to develop a software program whereby stolen votes could not be detected. The man who worked on the software program was found dead in a hotel room. Machines all over Florida, Texas and Ohio were counting Kerry votes as Bush votes. Kerry was ahead in ALL exit polls until what? 9:30 on election night and out of the blue BUSH was ahead. AND low and behold!!!!! the company who did the exit polling shut down their site because of software problems? I call bullshit where I see bullshit and we have bullshit all over the last 3 elections. Chuck Hagel winning in a predominately AA community when he was way behind in the polls the night before the election? I don't think so. He was on the board of ES&S evoting machine company. The same thing happened to Max Cleland too. In Florida they purged 60,000 people from the rolls? There's way too much evidence to be ignored. They stole the 2000, 2002 and 2004 elections.

[alcibiades_mystery]

36. Oi...

REFUSE to let anyone look at their software. They insist it's "proprietary". BULLSHIT.

They refuse to let anyone look at the software code, as does Microsoft and any other non-open source software developer. Should we have open source software for voting machines? Of course (hell, I think we should have open source for everything. But your point is otherwise of little value.

Also, Clinton Curtis from Florida who worked for a company and was asked by a repuke (who is now a congressman) to develop a software program whereby stolen votes could not be detected. The man who worked on the software program was found dead in a hotel room.

And the monster under my bed has green tentacles and blue hair and...come back when you have some evidence.

Machines all over Florida, Texas and Ohio were counting Kerry votes as Bush votes.

Since you provide no evidence here, I'll consider that an unsupported assertion.

Kerry was ahead in ALL exit polls until what? 9:30 on election night and out of the blue he was ahead. AND low (sic and behold!!!!! the company who did the exit polling shut down their site because of software problems?

Fascinating account, despite proving nothing.

Chuck Hagel winning in a predominately AA community when he was way behind in the polls the night before the election? I don't think so. He was on the board of ES&S evoting machine company.

Because nothing could be less suspicious than a popular US Senator from NEBRASKA winning an African American area (which, of course, it is completely unnecessary for him to win)? I mean, are you kidding me?

The same thing happened to Max Cleland too.

Say more. Really. :eyes:

In Florida they purged 60,000 people from the rolls?

Finally, a real issue. The purging of voters from the Florida rolls was outrageous and should be investigated further. Needless to say, it has nothing to do with whether e-voting is fixed and is only thrown in here to obfuscate the case.

There's way too much evidence to be ignored.

By all means, feel free to provide some of this evidence at some point...

[in_cog_ni_to]

39. That would be Oy.

:eyes: You provided NO concrete evidence to counter what I said. PROVE that I am wrong. All you did was poo-poo everything I posted. Post some links to prove me wrong. . Close your eyes and keep them closed. See if I care.

[alcibiades_mystery]

40. No...you have to prove that you are right

You're making the claim, so support it. That's how things work in grown-up land.

And it's Oi! for those who know.

[in_cog_ni_to]

41. Wrong. Refute what I said.

You can't and that is why you're stalling. You know what I say is true. You just can't admit it. OY VEY!

[alcibiades_mystery]

42. If you had provided any evidence at all for your claims

I would peruse it honestly and in good faith. Since you provide no evidence, but simply spout a litany of unsupported assertions, I quite literally have nothing to refute. This is not stalling. It is called reasonable argument.

[in_cog_ni_to]

43. But, but, but you said you read it ALL!

If you read it all, then there's no need for me to waste my time pulling up files and links for you. You're not interested in truth anyway. If you were, you would be busy Googling for info on the things I posted. You want the proof? Google it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

44. I've read these arguments extensively

And they are usually well put together and fairly complex, unlike your half-assed agglomeration of assertions. That said, I'd like to see if you even know your own arguments on this. At this point, you appear not to, for when you are asked to put forward some arguments, you instead retreat into jokes and inanities. I'll google nothing. If you have a specific argument to make, then make it. Otherwise, you shouldn't make grandiose and controversial claims, and you certainly shouldn't ask people to refute your pseudo-arguments when you can't even provide a hint of evidence for them.

At this point, I believe that my initial assertion is correct: you just like losing, which is why the "evoting" argument strikes your fancy. You don't really know the argument all that well (or you would have presented something coherent here, rather than retreating from a real argument time and again), but you just like it because it allows you to feel hopeless and outraged, the two favorite affects of those addicted to losing. Good luck with that.

[in_cog_ni_to]

45. Oh please stop.

You are the one who started dishin' your asinine insults about my views on evoting. YOU are the one who needs to put up or shut up. If you don't believe it, show me why. I don't have to prove anything to you.

[alcibiades_mystery]

46. Translation:

You got nothing.

Nice doing business with you.

[in_cog_ni_to]

47. Translation:

You cannot produce any facts to support your case. Why am I not surprised? I knew that after your first odious post. I gave you more than enough chances and you can't backup what you say and I hereby end this idiotic exchange with you. Now, go play with your little schoolyard friends and leave the political issues to the adults.

[lonestarnot]

2. I have the same feeling...and can't wait to wipe my ass on that one! LOL

Rub it in!

[kentuck]

3. Yep..

They're talking tough - trying to impress their followers.

[xultar]

4. You gotta think it is kute. Frist was lookin all beat down this AM.

Frist is a suckah. Played and his chances for 2008 are resting on his reign in the senate. That's good for us cuz he sux and we're taking it back in 06.

[seabeyond]

16. this is what i am seeing and further, with he dems allowed to speak

on the floor before the vote. dems throw everything out on these judges in such lack of respect. so even when the repugs vote them in they are so dirty doing it