Fear is the basis of cruelty and Religion-- Bertrand Russell.

[KlatooBNikto]

Today, I happened to reread Bertrand Russell's classic essay WHY I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN to get an idea of what the fundamentalists are trying to achieve.My search was rewarded when I read the paragraph on the relationship of fear to religion. Russell says that fear is the very basis of religion and that has existed for centuries until science elevated reason and produced the Cartesian connection between cause and effect.As Science dethroned religion, our fundamentalists are flailing around to reinstall Fear in people's minds and dethrone Science.All the recent upheavals about Evolution,Stem Cells and other ailments and advancements in genetic engineering have one aim: to reinstall fear of death, fear of disease and fear of the unknown. Reason and logic have to be abandoned and faith would be the only driving force.

It won't be long before we see inquisitions,excommunication and dogmas reigning supreme.

[applegrove]

1. I don't agree. People find themselves religious for a variety of reasons.

Same with any relationship. Many people find strength in their devotion. Many find love.

[KlatooBNikto]

2. Do you believe if we find the genetic switch to aging,most of us will

still believe in a supernatural being? I don't think so.

[applegrove]

6. Agnostics or atheists do not have all the answers either. Religion

explains as much about how we got here.. as it does where we go when we die. There is also the part in there about how to live a good life.

How about Buddhists? Will they be affected by anti-aging science?

I just see religion as one more relationship. Some people have the capacity to have it, others..not so much.

Whatever turns your crank. And so long as you do not scapegoat while calling yourself religious. That makes me very sad. When I see that. Because that was the one big thing that Christianity taught.. not to be so afraid that you have to stone a woman because the rains didn't come. They had to be taught that at the time. Seems somehow..that we have to relearn these things. Not us, but there are some freepers out there who bait 'others' or bait people in pain..and then call themselves Christian. Muslims too.

[bettyellen]

7. fuck yeah, if you're a woman, you know it's about social control......

they are afraid of women going off. gotta keep us under wraps, safe at home.
bleeech.

[applegrove]

8. You are talking about fundies I think. Not religion. Many, many churches

are pro women.

[bettyellen]

9. no honey, i'm talking catholics, muslims,

i'm talking we are vessels who have to have sex with husbands whenever they say.. even men who slap us around. god frorbid you want to leave a man who's threatened your life. perhaps the church is softened a bit, but policy always amounts to make it hader on the woman.
i guess i was never comfy being a cafeteria catholic. it is what it is, an excuse to keep women on the fringes, and lacking any control or self determination.
don't even get me started on islam. having to hide all day, because you can't expect a man to control himself. give me a fucking break.

[applegrove]

11. I agree there is misogyny in many old religions. And covering a

woman up sexualized her whole dam self. Don't get me started on female circumcision. Fundamentalism is the problem. But that is not how religion is practiced everywhere. What about protestants. What about Catholics who don't see the Vatican as all knowing and mind their own business.

You don't have to stop thinking just because you practice religion.

As to sex on demand.. unless that was part of the deal going in (and both sides agree) - I don't know where that is practiced in the West. If you are incompatible..you are incompatable. Go to a marriage counselor if your different expectations about what a marriage is causes trouble. You are adults. Work it out..or move on..or find a sort of peace. I don't have an answer for what you do if you do the counseling, try to fix things, cannot get divorced but one party is not holding up their end of the bargain. That is sad. I guess you prioritize your life different and come to some sort of spoken or unspoken agreement. And then maybe you try the counseling again.

Abusive men on the other hand..have nothing to do with God. But I don't know this situation in a relationship intimately. Though I know the harrassment. I have met many people who specialize in abusive spouces and devote their lives to helping women. I have also heard of programs that try teach the abuser how to relearn being human. And in most of the West..it is part in parcel with policing. As it should be.

But wherever it is a common cultural/religious practice the Catholic Church and the Bushites have no business interfering in a woman's reproductive health or her ability to find condoms. And the practice should be stopped. Why I hate the pope. Why I support girl-child education very much so in parts where foreign aid goes.

Once again it is fundamentalism that is the problem. And a lack of economic opportunity. Why I had to jump on the global trade band-wagon. Spreading wealth around will help undo the worst of archaic misogynistic cultural & religious norms around the world. It always has.

Why this fight over separation of Church & State is so important too. And that we uncloak the fundies and show them to be just as divorce prone and abuse prone as anybody else in America. As always..showing hypocrisy where it exists is a valuable tool.

I am all for pledging virginity for teens - as long as it is presented in schools as a choice and is mixed in with all the other important information on health..such as 'how to identify a psychopath' .. how to avoid 'controllers'.. sex education, self-esteem, safe sex, gender issues, bullying, homosexuality, etc. The more choice. The better. Though I back a parent's right to set rules as long as the child lives at home. But if you don't send your kids to public schools ... you may not get that.

I also support strict controls on certain types of porn..so it is terribly unaccessible to young teens (I'm not talking playboy here).

Misogyny is a much bigger issue than simply religion. Something like the much hated Bush plan to test kids for psychological problems I think will identify some sick little misogynists in the making. And I hope they get the treatment (if it ever exists) that they need.

There is more than one answer to the abuses you describe. Religion should never teach anyone to beat their wives. I doubt that a pastor or a cleric would get away with it if they tried to teach that. In the West at least.

[JanMichael]

3. I think this has more to do with the aggregate or the macro and....

...fundamentalism.

Not the liberal way of choice and contemplation.

This is about psychological/emotional coersion on a BIG scale.

[KlatooBNikto]

5. You are correct.

[JanMichael]

10. I've always (Ok, not "always", for about 10 years) liked Russell.

Both his enjoyable writing syle, his atheism, and (I know this is illegal now) his Socialism. His leftism snuggled a tad to far toward syndicalism for my tastes but so be it.

[chknltl]

4. witch trials too....

.... I once read in a metaphysical kind of book "Messages from Michael" or some such, that all the nastiness of your last sentence would come to pass, including witch trials. I am an atheist, I do have much animosity twords the evils which the religious right have rained down upon all life on this planet, historically as well as now.
That said, I feel we need, somehow, to unite with as many of our fellow Americans as possible, regardless of religion, if we are to bring the neocons to trial. Flip-floppy as this will sound: I am enlightened by your words here, make no mistake on that!