Ok why shouldn't parents be notified before their child undergoes surgery

[Toots]

Abortion is a form of surgery and I for one would like to be aware if my child was ever going to have surgery. Why is the Democratic party opposed to Parental Notification? Parents are legally responsible for their children and should know what their children are up to if for no other reason than for liability purposes. I understand that to give up an inch means possible loss of a mile but still?????????

[rodeodance]

1. --a loss of long long lonnnnnnnnnnng mile

[Not_Giving_Up]

2. Picture this

You are a teenage girl that has been molested by her father, and now you're pregnant. If Daddy-dearest doesn't sing the consent form, you'll be forced to have his child. Lovely thought, isn't it?

Here's another thing...

Several years ago, I saw a show that gave the stats. States that required parental notification had higher numbers of deaths from abortion complications. Scared teenage girls would hit the back alley rusty coat hanger type docs who didn't make them get parents to sign a piece of paper.

[Bunny]

5. We're on the same page here re: the father's role.

And also, the girls will hit the back alley abortionists, OR, they'll hide their pregnancies and we'll end up with more dumpster babies.

[warrens]

6. What if daddy is a violent fundie?

You might end up with a dead teenager.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

12. But hey, doesn't the Bible tells you to stone disobedient children?

:sarcasm:

[Toots]

17. You and everyone else has mentioned the father but never the mother

There are two parents. Why eliminate the Mother from the process if the father is guilty of a crime? I can see why the daughter may not want to tell her parents but not why the parents should not be told. Notification alone does not stop the abortion. Just because the parents say no does not mean the daughter can not go ahead with her plans. Just complicates things is all.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. Because some mothers are just plain nuts

The mother may be enabling the father's molestation, either by pretending it's not happening or actively, since it removes from her the "chore" of sex.

Other mothers may see pregnancy as the "just punishment" for their daughter's "wickedness."

When my brother was going through his medical residency, he helped deliver the baby of a 13-year-old. All through labor, the girl's mother was ragging on her, "See, you little bitch, you had your fun, and now you're getting what you deserve!" That sort of thing.

If the teen and the parents have a good relationship, parental notification won't be a problem. If the parents send a consistent message of "We'll be there for you if you need us," then the teen will certainly confide in them.

But if the parents are part of the problem--if the baby's father is the girl's father or the mother's boyfriend--or if the parents are nutcases who might kill her if they find out that she's pregnant, then parental notification is actually dangerous.

This is different from, say, a teenage girl needing to have her appendix out. I can't think of a situation in which parents would cause a young girl to have appendicitis or tell her that it was what she deserved or that it brought shame on the family.

[ultraist]

36. Read up about the dynamics of sexual abuse

It's very common for the mother to go into denial and/or protect the father. If a teen is being sexually abused by a male in the household, chances are, it's been going on for YEARS and the mother is caught up in the sickness.

I suppose there are cases where the mother doesn't know, but frankly, I couldn't imagine something like that going on in a house and an adult not being aware of it on some level.

With the cases I saw at CPS and have read about, if abuse is ongoing, it is because the other adult is giving silent consent through being in denial or giving direct consent.

[skypilot]

38. My question is this:

If the girl's pregnancy is the result of molestation at the hands of her father and denial of that fact by the mother then is parental notification of the daughter's abortion even the priority here? Isn't police notification of the parents' abuse what we would be talking about?

[ComerPerro]

41. Yes and no

Lets see.

You get molested by your father, and find out that you have become pregnant. You seek an abortion, but are rejected because you must first have parental consent. You don't go to the police at first because you are terrified and your priority is ending the pregnancy as soon as possible.

So you report the abuse and, lets say you request consent for the abortion. So you file charges and their is a lawsuit.

How long must that take?

By the time you are authorized to get an abortion, you are denied because it would be late-term.

[skypilot]

44. "...rejected because you must first have parental consent."

Maybe there is some ignorance on my part here.

Would it happen that way? If a girl told the doctor that the child she was carrying was her father's would the doctor's first instinct be to notify the parents that their daughter was seeking an abortion or to notify the police that the girl was being molested by her father? What does the law require of that doctor?

[ultraist]

50. The doctor has a legal duty to report abuse to CPS

But there again, just because CPS gets involved and investigates, doesn't mean that the father will be charged criminally. Also, CPS cannot always substantiate abuse, even when they know it likely happened. This happens, all while the clock is ticking.

IF the teen is taken into state custody, she may not be granted permission by the state to seek an abortion. There was a case recently in FL where the teen in state custody had to go to court several times requesting an abortion, Jeb blocked it, but eventually the court granted her the right to choose.

Abortion is trickier when a teen is in state custody because legally the State cannot force abortion, sterlizations, or make the decision to pull the plug on anyone in their custody. This gets into eugenics territory.

[skypilot]

53. Thanks.

Shows how much I know. I'd assumed that the doctor could just call the police.

[question everything]

83. One has to wonder whether, if Bush and Frist and Rove have their way

whether the same court, 10 years from now, would reach a similar verdict

[Bouncy Ball]

62. We're assuming the girl would TELL the doctor that the father

of her child is HER father. Or uncle. Or father's boss. Or stepfather, etc.

[skypilot]

66. Yes, I am assuming that because...

...otherwise we could possibly end up with this scenario:

Girl gets impregnated by family member, seeks abortion, doesn't tell doctor the circumstances of how she got pregnant, no one is notified, girl gets abortion, girls goes back to abusive household. Repeat.

Not a pretty thought.

[Bouncy Ball]

67. So how are you going to force girls to tell?

[skypilot]

68. I'm not suggesting forcing girls to tell.

I was simply sharing a very unappetizing--and not too far-fetched-- scenario. There are no easy answers.

[question everything]

85. Girl could be too scared to tell, if she still lives with the molester

in the same house.

And, if she goes to an abortion clinic, not to a doctor, are they supposed to notify CPS in the same way?

As many posted here, the mother could be a quiet acquiescent and she is the one taking the girl trying to just get it over with.

So here we have a parental approval... until the next time.

[ComerPerro]

64. I would think that no matter what the girl told the doctor

he wouldn't be able to do anything without consent if she was a minor.

[ultraist]

43. Sadly, most sexual abuse goes unreported

It's very difficult for a child to call CPS and report abuse. There are shame and fear issues involved. In most cases, it's an outside party that makes the report, such as a teacher, doctor, neighbor, or relative.

It's also difficult to prove sexual abuse. In the case of pregnancy, it cannot be proved who the father is until the pregnancy is far along enough to do an amniocentesis. This is fairly late in pregnancy.

The other problem is that fathers are RARELY charged criminally. Most sexual abuse cases are handled solely through CPS and the family courts. In my state, the police are not notified in most cases.

[skypilot]

45. fathers RARELY charged.

If this is true, I did not know. This clears up some things for me. Thanks.

[ComerPerro]

39. Exactly.

I mean, if the father is the kind of person who molests and rapes his daughter and then refuses to provide consent, then what would one expect from the mother. In most cases she will side with, be coerced by, or try to protect the father. Of course she won't sign the consent form.

[Bunny]

3. What if the girl's father got her pregnant?

She's supposed to notify HIM?

[Avalux]

4. What if sexual abuse by a parent caused the pregnancy in the first place?

Think about that for a minute. We all want to believe parents act in the best interest of their children, but the sick fact is that some of them don't. Those children must be given the opportunity to act on their own behalf.

[Avalux]

31. self delete

[Bridget Burke]

7. Most states have provisions for parents to be notified about ABORTIONS.

And I know that's what you meant.

However, exceptions are allowed--by appealing to a judge. What if the parents cannot be found? What if they will throw the kid out? What if the father (or stepfather) is also the father of the fetus?

In Texas, they are working to make it harder to get permission in these exceptional cases.

[supernova]

8. I can think of a couple of reasons:

In an ideal world, of course you would be notified if your child needed surgery 100% of the time. But, consider these situations:

1) The child has been abused by the parent, and notifying said parent only tips them off the child is seeking help, possibly exposing their dirty little secret. The parent will deny and disemble in front of the healthcare staff. The child will pay for it later.... dearly.

2) Sometimes, there is no abuse, but an extreme emergency requiring attention right now. Sometimes there is no time for niceties. You can thank the surgeon later when you get to the hospital.

[in_cog_ni_to]

9. What if she is pregnant because her dad raped her? n/t

[Finder]

10. Not all abortions are surgery.

A sticky subject though.

[Caution]

11. Just a few reasons

1.) Incest
2.) Parents refuse to grant permission to child who may fear retribution from abusive parents
3.) While you may wish to believe that you have control over every decision your child makes, that child is a human being and has the right to control over her own body.

Would you wish to be involved in an important decision? Sure. But then you are probably a pretty decent parent. Parental notification laws assume that all parents are good. They also assume that all parents are respectful of a person's decision over her own body.

Scenario: 16 year old child becomes pregnant. That 16 year old has parents who are both opposed to abortion and are extremely abusive. The 16 year old is afraid of the consequences her pregnancy will cause both for her future and from her abusive parents who will most likely beat her within an inch of her life for becoming pregnant. If parental notification laws are passed this child will both be beaten and be forced to have a child she doesn't want and cannot provide for.

[chelsea0011]

13. well, there really isn't anything "wrong" with notification but

as listed above about relatives being involved and the ramifications there is also another reason. The fundie repukes don't stop at notification. They want the child lectured on why she should not commit a murder. It has been reported that the judge, Owen, that the repukes can't wait to get appointed once lectured a teen at one of these hearings and used religion as a reason not to get an abortion. That's why.

[Spazito]

14. One would need to ask why the child feels they cannot

confide in their parents? Is it because of a fear of punishment? Is it because of an abusive household? Is it because of incest? There must be a great deal of fear in a child to make such a difficult decision without the support of her family so one has to wonder why, imo.

It would seem to me that if the child came from a nurturing, supportive household, the question of parent notification would be moot and it is those who feel fearful of their parents would be in need of protection from notification.

[ultraist]

29. Good point!

We also cannot expect teens to take on the responsibility of raising a child while depriving them the right to choose.

The teen will be LEGALLY responsible to raise that child. The teen should also be granted reproductive choice.

The fundies want to have absolute control with no responsibility.

I certainly hope that my daughter would involve me in her decision. It's likely she would as she knows I am pro choice and do not think abortion is murder, but if she didn't, I would support her RIGHT to choose. I do not "own" her life.

[ComerPerro]

42. Great point

Very good point.

[Horse with no Name]

60. Great point.

My 17 year old daughter ended up pregnant (she actually got pregnant at age 16). She totally did not know what to do, so she hid it.
Looking back now, I realize that everytime she was sitting on the couch she had a blanket over her, she was wearing big bulky hoodies, etc.
I'm not an abusive parent. When I found out, I didn't get angry, I wasn't disappointed. I just sat her down and asked what she wanted to do. It was her choice. I will have to say I was shocked, however. At the time this occured, she was the Treasurer of Project Save--an abstinence only club in her high school (her choice, not mine,lol.)
Of course, at this point the only options were adoption and keeping the child--but if I had found out earlier, certainly would have let her choose the option of abortion if that is what she wanted.
The point is, I had sex in high school as I am sure most people my age did. How can I judge one poorly for what I have done myself?
Anyway, was very difficult to find a healthcare provider for her because she was so far along without any prenatal care. Luckily she doesn't smoke or drink or do drugs.
She started having contractions so we went to a local hospital.
The doctor was so rude because she was a teen pregnancy. She suggested that my daughter go live in an unwed mother's home and then give the baby up for adoption. I told her that I would worry about my daughter's living arrangements and that I certainly did not need her advice on that, but would rather she just tend to her healthcare needs.
We actually ended up with a doc at a Catholic hospital--who may I add that the doctors and nurses were so kind and so respectful to my daughter.
After she had the baby (the baby was pretty sick at birth) the Pediatrician asked what the plans were, etc.
I just said that my daughter was gonna go home and finish high school and then go to college. We weren't going to change plans because of this. No reason to. The only thing that would change is that my daughter and her baby would continue to live with me until she was out of college and could properly support herself.
The doc told my daughter that she had no idea how lucky she was to have a parent that was willing to do that. That most kids in her situation were basically thrown to the wolves without any help.
I guess this is the area that I am in. I guess that is why many girls in my daughter's situation choose abortion. The doc certainly clarified that most parents would not support a child of their child.
Personally for me, I couldn't see any other way around the situation.
There were no other choices than to do what I felt was the right thing.
An update...grandbaby is happy and healthy and gorgeous. My daughter is now a sophomore in college.

[Spazito]

70. Thank you for sharing your and your daughter's personal

experience, it is much appreciated. I am very glad she had a supportive parent like you. Both she, your grandchild and you are an example of what should happen in difficult circumstances such as you described.

[TahitiNut]

15. In summary: The teenager who DOESN'T tell her parents ...

... very often has an excellent reason to avoid it. Thus, such laws do far, far more harm than good. I personally believe it's a matter of dealing with barn doors after the livestock has escaped. I believe a pregnant teenager has, in a de facto sense, emancipated herself in at least this regard. That a parent would resist this is no surprise. How many parents "let go" in a timely manner even in the best of circumstances?

[mcar]

26. Agreed

I would guess that in most cases, a pregnant girl does seek her parent's assistance, advice and support. One has to wonder why, if a child does not want to inform their parents.

I used to work in healthcare and I know of several situations where teenager had baby, was totally all set to give baby up for adoption and then the parents intervened. In one case, the adoptive parents had already taken the infant home, the papers were signed, money had changed hands, etc., etc. Then the whacko parents of the teen mom started pitching a fit and forced the teenager to change her mind. The adoptive parents had to bring the child back.

This was doubly, triply sad: I knew the adoptive parents and they had experienced much pain and suffering trying to have a child of their own. You can only imagine what they experienced having to return this infant. Then, we have the birth mother, being forced to keep a child she didn't want.

This is not about abortion, per se, but about choices. Because of whacko parents, this teenager was not allowed to make a choice that would have, ultimately, been the best thing for everyone involved.

The parents should not have been allowed to stick their noses into it.

[sandnsea]

16. Teens have a right to health care

If we begin restricting access to reproductive health care, where will it end. What about AIDS or STD testing? Treatment? Pregnancy testing? Pregnancy care? If a teen should have this medical care without parental consent, why not abortion?

Reality requires we put the well-being of human beings over the authoritarianism some parents want to exercise.

[Beetwasher]

18. Hmm, A Post In Favor Of Ending the Fillibuster And Another That's

in favor of this restrictive parental consent bullshit.

Just what makes you think you belong here? :eyes:

Not too transparent are you?

[Toots]

25. Afraid of questions are you?

I am sure I am more Liberal than most on this site but I do have questions. Feedback. that's what it is all about. Also I see you can't read. I am not in favor of ending the filibuster I only asked what if. The post starts out Maybe. You know as in What if?

[Beetwasher]

27. LOL!

Sure you are...That's why you've responded to so many in this thread who have given you fact after fact after fact. Pathetic.

[Toots]

48. Your sig line is quite appropriate

I am wondering whether you should be called a Liberal. It is more than possible you won't be. Isaiah 32:5

[Beetwasher]

51. Yeah, Throw Idiotic Bible Verses at Me

That'll learn me. You get more pathetic with each post. Yup, I'm asshole and you're ignorant. I'd rather be an asshole.

All the information you need to answer your bullshit is provided by various posters, but you would rather engage in a flame fest with an asshole like me. What does that say about you? I'll tell you. It means you're a disingenous, dishonest, pathetic sham.

[question everything]

30. Please, attack the message, not the messenger

We have had here thousands of posts about abortion, too many - for my taste - of DUers who would like some restrictions on abortions, who would like to have this as last resort after the women has gone through hoops. I don't like it but there were always good, sound responses that restored my trust in DU.

When you attack the messenger you show that you have no sound opinions to debate in this issue. This is how one loses elections.

[Beetwasher]

32. Feh!

I'll post anything I damn well please. I ain't running for anything. This ain't the only questionable post by the OP. Others on this thread have posted some damn good information and the OP ignores them. Do the math.

[seemslikeadream]

19. There are always difficult situations

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1493585

[insane_cratic_gal]

20. What if Mom and Dad are

Just physically abusive? That was my household.

What if she was raped, and mom and dad are fundies who insist she have the child.

Quite honestly, when kids don’t tell their parents about such matters isn't that the FAULT of the PARENT and don't be angry at a law that gives them the right to avoid being beaten or forced to have it.

If you can't have an open honest relationship with your child, about such issues, "hey if you ever get pregnant, I won't you to be able to come to me and discuss your options. At first I might be upset with the situation but I'll still love you and support your choice!"

Be responsible for your child willingly telling you vs hiding it from you. It’s my opinion this law is meant to protect teens from being forced into having the child against their will.

[bloom]

21. Parents wouldn't be notified

if their under aged daughter were doing some botched version.

As a parent I would rather my daughter have access to proper medical care with or without me than not. Including abortion if that is what she chose to do.

[Love Bug]

22. As a parent I understand where you are coming from, but

the parental notification laws really put a terrible burden on a pregnant minor who is obviously afraid to tell her folks about her pregnancy or decision to abort. I am also concerned about the time it takes for the girl to see a judge to get a waiver -- in some cases that might put her into the 2nd trimester where it is more difficult to find an abortion provider not to mention the additional stress and risks to her health.

There are no perfect solutions here, so I am on the side of the pregnant girl in this case.

Yes, parents are responsible for their dependent minors, but this is the price we pay as a society for tolerating the abusive or neglectful behavior of a few "bad apple" parents. Maybe if we do something about that fewer girls will find themselves in this predicament -- takes a village, and all that.

[ultraist]

46. But the parents are not responsible for the dependent teens child!

The teen is legally responsible for that child. NOT the parents of that teen.

Sadly, many of the children of teens, from unwanted pregnancy, end up terribly abused. Forcing a teen to take on rearing a child is a dangerous thing to do. Some of the worst abuse cases are from young parents who had unwanted pregnancies. They are not equipped or prepared to raise a child.

Two cases I saw come to mind. One was a 5 month old baby who had numerous broken bones. The baby had failure to thrive and ate only enough to keep her sustained. She was underweight and weak. Another case I saw where was the teen mother did not feed the baby appropriately. The 2 month old baby ended up severely dehydrated and had a stroke which caused significant brain damage. This child ended up in state custody and may end up in an institution for the rest of her life. :cry:

I am strongly opposed to FORCING teens to have children from unwanted pregnancies.

[Love Bug]

71. Oh, I agree with you

You helped make my point -- a society that supports effective parenting would go a long way towards removing the barrier that causes the pregant teen from not telling her parents without being forced to, no matter what she decides to do about the pregnancy.

[question everything]

87. You have to wonder how many RWers have witnesses

cases like the ones you described. It is so easier to pontificate to the masses. Or, they would consider such cases as "just punishment" by their gods. Same for botched abortions.

[question everything]

24. To say that abortion is a form of "surgery" really is disingenuous

A girl does not become pregnant by sitting on a toilet seat, or by hanging out with bad crowd. She become pregnant by being engaged in sexual relationship - whether by her own consent or by force (the examples of a father molestation or a date rape).

As much as we would like to have open communications with our children, some young girls choose not to confide on this topic and some parents are not easy discussing this.

Thus, needing an abortion means admitting to your parents that you have had sex. And some girls are not ready for this discussion even though the parents may, especially after tragic consequences.

Only few weeks ago I posted a comment by a a woman who claimed that it would be OK with her if a pregnant girl died of botched abortion; that it would "send a signal" to other girls to keep their legs crossed..

I find a parallel to men admitting that they are HIV positives that, in most cases, means admitting that they are homosexuals - and they may not be ready to get out of the closet just at this time.

[truebrit71]

28. What if the pregnancy is a result of parental molestation?

They have to ask permission of the abuser to abort? Not bloody likely....

[markus]

33. OK, let's just discuss surgery

Under what conditions would you want your child to bleed to death while the hospital emergency room looks for you? I would suspect that you would find reasonable exceptions to a parental notification rule there. Why not in conditions where reporting a pregnancy endangers the life or welfare of the child.

There may be some room on one parent notification, but I do worry in the abstract about the abused spouse of an abused child having the ability to provide that consent, given the fear of abuse (or perhaps because denying the child abuse fits with their own enabling view of the abusive environment).

The Talibornagains love this one, but would be the first to scream if they're Little Missie couldn't get the abortion she needs when they discover the statistically-likely outcome of abstinence-only education: unprotected sex and an unwanted pregnancy

This is one of those Tar Baby issues that the Talibornagains love to harp on, hoping we will tie ourselves up in knots.

[gollygee]

34. It's for the safety of the girl

the fact is that girls often don't tell their parents if they're pregnant. The more obstacles to have an abortion there are for a preganant woman, but particularly young women who live with their parents, the less likely the woman will choose a legal safe abortion and the more likely she is to take matters into her own hands, with potentially terrible results.

Also, in most cases it isn't a case of a parent being notified, it's a case of a parent giving permission. If a kid has to worry about her parents giving permission and knows they will say no, what is she going to do? Girls who know their parents won't give permission will use unsafe methods of abortion instead.

[ultraist]

40. Yes

And it's ABSURD to place more obstacles in front of ending an unwanted pregnancy than there are in front of taking on an 18 year legal responsibility of raising a child.

Any teen can get pregnant and raise a child, yet teens cannot legally choose to end the pregnancy?

As others have mentioned, we also should not create incentives for teens to seek out unsafe abortions by placing restrictions on choice.

[dogday]

35. The Kids Are Just Plain Scared

Some girls would rather take a pregnancy to term and leave the baby in the closet or in the trash in a public restroom. Alternatives need to be in place for these type of kids. They are way too scared to tell their parents and will do anything to cover up their pregnancy and maybe get a murder charge to boot....

[Avalux]

37. Here's a MOM story:

OKEECHOBEE, Fla. -- A mother is under arrest, accused of selling a 12-year-old daughter into prostitution and trading a 14-year-old daughter for a car.

The youngest daughter is currently three months pregnant, the report said, and the girl was 11 when her mother first forced her to have sex with a man. She charged $20 for the sex.

The youngest girl told detectives that her mother pulled both girls out of school for fear they would tell someone.

"She said she was a good student and made A's and B's, and all she wants to do is go back to school," Ammons said.
- The Associated Press

Thankfully, that woman was caught and hopefully the girl will be given the opportunity to have an abortion. Think of those who are doing this that aren't caught, and the children involved.

[Madrone]

69. OMFG!

:cry:

This shit makes me absolutely livid. LIVID. Those poor kids. :cry:

[sandybeach]

72. Can this mother be aborted?

OKEECHOBEE, Fla. -- A mother is under arrest, accused of selling a 12-year-old daughter into prostitution and trading a 14-year-old daughter for a car.

The youngest daughter is currently three months pregnant, the report said, and the girl was 11 when her mother first forced her to have sex with a man. She charged $20 for the sex.

The youngest girl told detectives that her mother pulled both girls out of school for fear they would tell someone.

"She said she was a good student and made A's and B's, and all she wants to do is go back to school," Ammons said.
- The Associated Press

[ComerPerro]

79. Very good point

[Lerkfish]

47. sure. Let's also give abusive husbands directions to the women's shelter..

after all, they ARE married. There could never be any BAD consequences.
There could NEVER be any valid reasons to respect the patient's privacy.

/sarcasm

[Horse with no Name]

49. You have to look at the bigger picture

Once a child--of any age-- gives birth to a baby, they are considered emancipated adults and THEY ALONE from that point on have legal say over everything that regards them and their child.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to terminate a pregnancy if they know it will completely ruin their life or will force them to be homeless or force them to endure domestic abuse?
Why should they be denied the basic right of being emancipated upon pregnancy and not upon birth ?

[seabeyond]

52. toots i have a tough time with this too.

i can never imagine a child, going under knife and not knowing it, not being informed.

of course i understand the need for it too

[GreenPartyVoter]

54. If a dad knocks his little girl up, you really think she wants him to

know she is going in for an abortion?

[UdoKier]

55. I do think parents should be notified.

But I don't think parents should be able to force a child who doesn't want to to bear a child. So I have no problem with notification, but there need to be safeguards that allow the child to exercise her rights to terminate her pregnancy.

Sadly, some parents would be sick enough to force a 13-year old to have a baby...

[insane_cratic_gal]

56. How many babies are dumped

In toilets trash cans, left some place to die or abandoned? How many more will suffer that fate because of Parental ntoification?

How many of those babies suffer because they were never wanted? How many are neglected by a single 15 yr old mom who wants to party?

If we truley want them to be few and safe, why are we not fighting to keep REAL SEX ed in our classroom. Or being responsible for talking to our kids about it birthcontrol and protection against STDs. I'm sorry but absentance does not work when 88 percent fail to adhere to it.

Start where it needs to be, with you as a parent, myself as a parent! I take it upon myself to teach my child, her rights, her body, use these methods for safer sex if it should happen! If your pregnant, here are your options.

Impress upon our school systems if they are going to address SEX ED to teach FACTS and not religious propaganda.

[Logansquare]

57. Look, you started a controversial thread

So it's really your obligation to participate and respond to some of the very good arguments presented here.

[Coexist]

58. because teens who are scared to tell their parents end up doing stuff like

http://www.detnews.com/2005/metro/0501/05/A01-50709.htm
<snip>
"The Richmond Township boy, 16, who may be arraigned as early as today in Macomb County Juvenile Court, is at home with his parents. He was charged as a juvenile with intentional conduct against a pregnancy or stillbirth, which is a felony. If convicted, he could remain in custody until age 21.

But the girl, also from Richmond - who was a willing participant in the induced abortion, law enforcement officials say - cannot be charged under that law because it specifically excludes the mother from criminal liability."


<snip>
"Legally, the baby could have been aborted. Because the girl was a minor, she would have needed a judge's or parental permission to obtain an abortion."

[EFerrari]

59. If you're daughter has a safe, legal abortion, she probably will

tell you at some point. If she doesn't have access to one, her health is at risk and you might not find out at all until you have to face the negative consequences of a botched abortion.

Would I like to be notified? Yes. Do I want to be notified more than I would want my daughter to be safe? No.

[Bouncy Ball]

61. I never got pregnant before I had my daughter when I was 24

BUT had I gotten pregnant in high school and had I wanted an abortion and had there been parental notification laws in place, I would have been STUCK like Chuck.

My mother, who was diagnosed long ago with Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizo-Affective Disorder, among other things, and who has steadfastly refused ANY treatment over the years besides her own self-medicating with illicitly gotten prescription drugs, would have killed me.

No, I am not employing a metaphor here, she would have KILLED me. She would NOT have signed any parental notification form, but she would have not allowed me to have an abortion and she would have NOT allowed me to live. Period.

I have scars on my arms, legs and the back of my neck from her. I was taken to the emergency room more times than I can remember to get stitched up after one of her attacks. They were almost always out of the blue.

My alcoholic stepfather would have been no help. He would not have signed it out of fear of HER killing HIM in his sleep. I cannot stress this enough--she was mentally ill, extremely unstable and horribly violent. She had been arrested many times by the time I was 17.

What I would have had to do was simply run away. I don't know what after that. Maybe to another state without parental notification laws? But with what money?

So I might have been left with the "option" of a homemade abortion, and we know how well those tend to go.

It would have been an absolute nightmare.

Now do you see why parental notification laws are so difficult? We'd like to think all parents would be understanding and supportive, and you are probably one of them, but sadly what would happen are dead pregnant teenagers (at the hands of parents/relatives or from a botched homemade abortion), runaway pregnant teenagers, or babies born with damage caused by an attempted homemade abortion.

[Coexist]

63. wow - so sorry

[EFerrari]

73. I hear you, BB. We have to make sure girls have unconditionally

safe choices.

I put my mom in many ambulances myself and would have been in big trouble had I needed her from ages 11 to 17.

:hug:

[Wind Dancer]

81. Bouncy Ball, so sorry this happened to you.

Unfortunately, it occurs all too often in many families and children have little or no protection. We share your pain.

[Baconfoot]

65. never confuse an "ought" with an "ought to be legally required to" n/t

[kenny blankenship]

74. Under what possible circumstances would it OK for parents to veto

their daughter's decision to abort her pregancy?

That's the only reason why parents would have the right to know PRIOR to the abortion: to obtain their consent.

I will never consent to parents having any legal power or right to consent to their daughters' control over their own uteruses.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

76. Yup. THAT is the $64,000 question. I wonder when will the OP be back again

to answer it?

[Fleshdancer]

75. my personal opinion (others will probably disagree with me):

When my daughter is old enough to conceive, I will not own her body and I will never own her sexuality. My hope is that she plans her pregnancy and that it occurs when she's ready. I will provide sexual education, I will not judge her, I will take her to get birth control, etc. If, after that, she still gets pregnant and decided to have an abortion, it's her choice. My hope is that she could come to me, but the situation isn't mine to control.

[zanne]

77. Back street abortions don't require parental notification.

And if that "surgery" doesn't go well, you'll be notified by the police who find her body.

[ComerPerro]

80. Exactly

[XemaSab]

78. A girl with any kind of decent family

will tell her parents.

If she can't tell her parents, it's probably for a reason.

[Yupster]

82. I note you said "notification," not consent

I think in a few ytears almost every state will have parental notification laws.

Like you said, it only makes common sense to notify parents when their minor children are about to undergo any medical procedure. No politician will ever convince a majority of parents that they must be told if a kid gets an aspirin in school or if a kid gets his/her ears pierced, but the kid can have an abortion without them being told. That's just a losing proposition.

Even "worsier" is trying to convince a parent that an unrelated adult should be able to take your minor child across state lines without your knowledge. To most parents, that argument will be a non-starter.

If the party's position is that the parents cannot be told because the father may be a molestor, that wll just further alientate millions of men from the party. If they can take this right away from me because I "may" be a molestor, what other rights will they take away because I "may" be something else. Nope - not going to work.

If you want to convince people to be against parental consent, you have a decent chance, but convincing parents against notification will never work.

So what about the abusive dad? Well that's why all the proposals have judicial bypasses. If you want to argue for stronger ones, that could work, but you can't convince people to not inform parents because one of them may be a criminal. If that is a reasonable argument, it could also be made for showing parents report cards, or calling them when kids get in trouble at school, or any thing else. You don't take a parent out of the loop because some parents might react badly. You create an exception for that situation.

There are also the plain reality arguments. If your 12 year old daughter is being sexually abused by the 16 year old boy down the block and gets pregnant, how can you justify not telling the mother so she knows to keep her kid away from that boy? When the kid has complications from her third abortion, are you going to tell the mother that you knew this was going on for years, but deicided the mother didn't have a right to know about it. That's just not reasonable.

If it is indeed the dad who impregnates the girl, how could you justify allowing the girl not to tell anyone and returning her right back into the same abusive situation.

Nope, parental notification is going to happen in almost every state, and the more it is a political issue, the more it will cause election losses, because it is not a defensible position to tell a parent that her daughter was operated on without her knowledge and that's just fine with you. You're just not going to convince most parents that that is a reasonable position.

[kenny blankenship]

84. Oh it's about NOTIFICATION is it? Then,...

you won't mind naming me an example of a state in which this notification comes AFTER the abortion procedure --as a true notification would.

Don't bother: all state laws mandating parental notification require the parent to be notified BEFORE the daughter has her wishes respected. The laws ARE NOT about notification at all.
IN fact 25 of these state laws EXPLICITLY require the consent of one or more parents. Don't try to kid me that the rest aren't about really about prevention too. As you can see from the unanimity of state laws as regards the timing of "notification", so-called parental notification is all about exposing a young girl to the disapproval and coercion of her parents in the hopes that they can stop her. THEY HAD ALL HER LIFE TO THIS POINT TO SEE TO IT THAT SHE WOULD MAKE THE DECISION YOU WOULD APPROVE OF. If they don't approve well then they have failed as parents to transmit their values to their child. Nevertheless, it REMAINS the girl's body and anyone who tries to make her the host of an unwanted pregnancy is GUILTY OF RAPE. Be that her parents, the President of the United States or some freepfuck trolling DU.

If the girl has chosen NOT TO GO TO HER PARENTS FIRST, if she has decided it's better to keep them in the dark, then they have FAILED as parents. THEIR failure is NOT AN ARGUMENT for stripping her of her rights to her own body and destiny. You want to give these failed parents ANOTHER chance to overrule their daughter's stated intention. You want to give failed parents the power to intrude into their daughter's MOST PRIVATE decision, into her body itself, to perhaps force her to bear an unwanted child.

Well that's very nice. Glad as hell that I'm not your kid!

[theboss]

86. I think there should be notification laws but no consent laws

A parent should not be able to veto the procedure. But a parent should not be left to guess if their daughter gets an infection.