Cheney's coup d'etat: Why Nuclear option is much worse than you thought

[HamdenRice]

Most of the reporting on the MSM about the impending Republican maneuver to end the filibuster actually does not even come close to explaining just how bad, illegal and unprecedented this action will be.

What the Republicans really are proposing is a coup d'etat by Dick Cheney. The MSM tends to report this as a concentration of the power of the majority Republicans, rather than the transfer of near absolute and dictatorial power to the Vice President.

In fact, concentrating on the end of the filibuster of judicial nominations is complete media misdirection -- analogous to and almost as profound as their switching the story of torture and desecration of the Koran at Guantanamo to Newsweek's reportorial failures.

What the Republicans are really proposing to do is to grant Dick Cheney near absolute power to run rough shod over Senate rules. The MSM's reporting that Cheney's role will be to "break a tie" is absolutely inconsequential.

The real story is complicated, but a simple version goes something like this. The Senate has established rules about how to debate issues, end debate, vote and so forth. These rules are really not constitutional or legal rules; they are more like rules of Parliamentary procedure. The Constitution gives the Senate the right to establish its own rules.

One of the rules is a rule about ending a Senate filibuster. It takes 3/5 affirmative vote (or 60 Senators) to end a filibuster.

Like almost all sets of rules, the Senate rules explain how to amend the rules themselves. It is actually quite difficult to amend the rules. To make a complicated matter simple, for all intents and purposes, it requires 2/3 vote of the Senators to change their own rules. Note that this requirement of attaining a 2/3 vote is actually more difficult to attain than the requirement of a 3/5 vote to end a filibuster.

Because the Senate Republicans do not have enough votes either to end a filibuster or to change the Senate rules, Sen. Frist proposes a radical procedure. He will ask for a ruling from the presiding officer of the Senate, the Vice President. Just as the chairman of a meeting can rule on Parliamentary procedures, here Cheney will act in his capacity as presiding officer. Note well: Cheney will not be acting in his capacity as a tie breaker; he will be acting in his capacity as the interpreter of Senate rules.

At this point, Cheney will determine that under his personal interpretation of the Constitution, the Senate can ignore the filibuster rule and proceed with a 50/50 vote. In other words, Cheney will amend the rules of the Senate by himself, based on his own opinion, without following the rules of the Senate on how to amend those rules. This is in effect a coup d'etat by Dick Cheney -- taking over the Senate based on his personal interpretation of the Constitution. He will in effect say that for this matter, he, Cheney, will personally impose a 50/50 vote on judicial nominees.

Only then will Cheney act in his capacity as vice presidential tie breaker in the Senate, because even then, pathetically, the Republicans will not have a majority big enough to impose these judicial nominees, with a 50/50 vote, without the vice president's tie breaking vote.

<For a detailed explanation of this, go to People for the American way, http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oId=18761 >

The precedent that this maneuver will create is this: The Vice President has the capacity to over-ride Senate rules, and do what normally takes 2/3 or 66% of the Senate to do -- namely change the Senate rules.

Once this precedent is set, of granting Dick Cheney plenary power of interpretation over the Senate rules, without any checks or balances from even 2/3 of the Senate, do you think he will not exercise it again? This maneuver will concentrate enormous, unprecedented power in the hand of the vice president.

And why is not the MSM not reporting the real danger behind the proposed republican subversion of the Senate rules?

<edited>

[Sgent]

1. So the Senate

will essentially become the House for all intents an purposes.

Considering some of the crap that comes out of the house... this is bad, bad news.

[HamdenRice]

3. No worse than the House --

It will be rules by fiat by Dick Cheney, because he will have the capacity to change Senate rules by personal fiat depending on his personal interpretation of the Constitution. Hard to believe, but that's what they're up to.

[CTLawGuy]

14. well, his ruling DOES need to be sustained by a majority vote

but that being said the "nukular option" is WAY out of line.

[HamdenRice]

17. Yes, a majority ...

but the rules say a Senate rule can only be suspended or altered in specific ways, usually involving 2/3 vote.

[CTLawGuy]

18. yes

but according to the link you sent me, the nuclear option can't be completed without quashing the inevitable appeal of the ruling, which requires a majority vote.

We can assume any other dictatorial rulings will be appealed similarly as well.

[HamdenRice]

25. correct - supermajorities reduced to 50/50 votes ...

and the really pathetic part is they cannot even win the 50/50 vote without Cheney's tie breaker!

[CTLawGuy]

35. is it confirmed that we have

5 Republicans pledging to vote no?

[FreedomAngel82]

Very bad

Who knows what they'll get away with. What will happen to the Senate if the democrats make a lock down and walk out? Will they still do work? This is just horrible and makes me sick.

[Stinky The Clown]

2. You bet your ass its a coup

The only question is .... how far along is it?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3700338

[SOS]

32. Interesting to note

that Gore Vidal has been referring to this administration as "the Cheney junta" since the 2000 "election".

[shanti]

61. speaking of gore vidal

did you see him on bill maher? he was great, no holds barred!

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

4. A pox upon Cheney's black heart...he's evil incarnate

I can only hope that there is a Hell in which Cheney will be tortured inperpetuity for his crimes against democracy and humanity.

JB

[mwb970]

22. He's much worse than Bush.

What ever happened to that weak heart?

[Horse with no Name]

5. Nominated.

No wonder Boxer fears for our country and John Kerry called it was it is...a power grab.

[HamdenRice]

6. Thank you -- this is really important and not being reported

so please keep this kicked. I don't think any part of the MSM is really explaining this well.

[FreedomAngel82]

12. Yep

That's why someone saw fear in her eyes. It's very scary indeed. Especially with these people.

[Just Me]

7. Republicans are proving they are too weak to hold power,....

,...because they are abusing it in ways that are destructive to the republic, its people, the country and the world. Their character weaknesses of greed and gluttony and calculative deception are shining through their behavior.

They are tyrants, through and through. They are pro-corporate tyranny and anti-democracy, anti-republic, anti-freedom, anti-American!!!

Get these freakin' tyrants OUT of our government!!!!

[tavalon]

54. I'll check with Diebold

and see if they'll let us.

[mike_c]

8. kicked and nominated....

:kick:

Can anyone doubt that the neo-con republican leadership is attempting to overthrow government based on Constitutional checks and balances? This action will give them the Senate, and also the tool needed to undermine the last remaining impediment to absolute power-- the judiciary. Cloaking themselves in false patriotism and cynical morality, they are working to destroy the American experiment in democracy. :banghead:

[HamdenRice]

13. It doesn't just give the Republicans the Senate, it gives it to Cheney

We all have a pretty good sense of Cheney's political ethics. Imagine the power he will hold over all Senators once this happens. It's not just his public power, but his ability to influence behind the scenes that will increase exponentially.

BTW, the Dems and other progressive forces would do well to focus on this aspect of the power grab. People across the spectrum do not trust Cheney. It's not a matter of ending the filibuster -- it's a matter of giving Cheney personal control of one branch of government.

[Andy_Stephenson]

9. Would you expect anything less from Dick than dictatorship?

The Dems have rubber stamped this admins agenda for so long now there is essentially no way of stopping them short of revolution. This post will probably be locked. Perhaps that's why Thomas Jefferson said we needed a revolution every twenty years. In my humble opinion both parties have commited treason against the people. They have allowed Corporatists to take control of the government and it is they, not the people that are driving the dialogue.

[HamdenRice]

15. Why would this post be locked???

Hi Andy
Hope you are feeling well and best wishes for your medical treatment.

Why do you think this thread will be locked???

[Andy_Stephenson]

37. Because o f the talk of

Revolution. It is a nono. against the law as a matter of fact.

[mmonk]

41. IMO

this is an overthrow, so revolution would be required to re-establish a representative democratic republic.

[GuvWurld]

47. can you point to source declaring revolution discussion illegal? n/t

[Just Me]

19. Our country is in some serious trouble, Andy.

If they give Dick one more inch, it is over!!! At least, for the next several years, democracy will be gagged, bound and imprisoned. America will be a dictatorship and the American people will be thrown into a slavery for corporacratic interests.

I dread it. I do. I believe we will save democracy and bring back the America we love. But, it's going to be a horrible, horrible blow to our people, our country and the world.

[BrotherBuzz]

29. Some good juicy scandals might be more entertaining than a revolution

Of course the real coup took place in 2000. What the Repugs plan for tuesday is just further consolidation of their power grab, much like events that followed the 1933 election in Germany which boosted Hitler into the chancellorship. We are seeing a peculiarly American form of fascism establishing itself here, backed mainly by religious fanatics who believe we're in the last days and must quicken the path to Armageddon. Again, as was the case in Germany, the opposition here is feeble and disunited and fails to perceive the seriousness of the situation. I just watched Howard Dean on Meet the Press. He uses tough sounding rhetoric, but I doubt whether the dems or any other mainstream group in the US these days has the courage to take on the religio-fascists. As far as I can tell, the only thing that will bring them down is rampant scandals of so severe a nature that even the wuss media won't be able to ignore them. The scandals are already there, reported constantly in the alternative media, but we need several convergent big new ones to do the trick. Just a thought.

Take care Andy...

[Donailin]

53. "The real coup"

that took place in 2000 *was* the Y2K everyone was worried about. We all thought it would be the computer systems failing, when it was the selection of Bush in late 2000. but it now it may be the computers -- that is, the underground of the 21st century -- that saves us.

[myrna minx]

76. This is absolutely chilling. N/T

:scared:

[alfredo]

10. Republicans seek absolute power. That is what I am telling

people.

[pie]

11. This would be the end of the US as we know it.

The rock of doom rolls ever faster.
You can bet they have already planned
exactly what to do. They will move fast.
By the time the populace notices,
the mass of KKK repukes will be wearing armbands and
shouting 'heil Bush.'

[FreedomAngel82]

16. That's why they're moving fast now

The democrats are definitley trying to stall things until the midterms hoping they will gain more seats and lose some republicans. I've never seen them work so fast before. I remember after the "election" in November he started working right away and it felt VERY strange to see him do that. He was really fast and still is. He hasn't been on vacation very much. More proof, imo, that 9/11 was made to happen for them.

[Horse with no Name]

21. I'm sure alot of sensible conservatives

are starting to catch on.
Before there is an uprising they have to have everything in place.
That's why they are frantically working.
That is also what has surprised me.
The exaggerated and expedient agenda and the lightning speed it has rocketed through. It is moving so fast that the average person isn't keeping up with it. There isn't anytime to spend debating ONE certain subject because by that time there are 3 and 4 and 5 things that are of paramount importance.
The SS roadshow is just a smokescreen. It's purpose is two-fold. First it keeps people fixated on it because it is something that affects everyone but the most important reason is this: It gets the focus off of DC so the real decisions can be made by the real powerbrokers.
The people will NOT allow a draft to happen in our democratic society and this group knows that.
But, a draft will happen, but when it happens, it won't be our country to take back anymore. It will be theirs.
Our government,as we knew it,will be dismantled.

[Just Me]

27. One thing I'll never do is underestimate the American people,...

,...as the neoCON and their fanatics apparently do.

There is a non-violent war already at work: the war of information. Civilians are breaking through the neoCONfascists' control over information. Civilians are getting and spreading information in spite of the neoCONfascists campaign to control that information and suppress ideas that differ from their own.

I believe there are far, far more American people who understand what is going on than ever before.

I don't know what extremes the neoCONfascists will go. But, I firmly believe the American people can and will handle it!!!

[tavalon]

56. I hate to say it

but it's really hard to underestimate the American people. They've been pretty damn stupid and/or oblivious thus far. What will wake them up?

[KitSileya]

79. From somebody standing on the outside,

it seems that the US has ended. How goes that quote again - the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Well, the men and women of the United States of America have done nothing, and evil is triumphing. I agree with Andy, *both* parties have let America down.

[enough]

20. Very good explanation.

Thanks.

[RBHam]

23. The Good News: BFEE wouldn't NEED to stage another terrorist attack...

They could just ram through the martial law aspects of Patriot Act II and be done with any political opposition.

[NV Whino]

24. Also bear in mind this circuit court judicial filibuster stuff

is only the warm up act for Supreme Court appointments.

Should the dems cave and agree to eliminating the filibuster limited to judicial appointees, it will also apply to appointees for Supreme Court.

[C_U_L8R]

26. It Amazes Me

It amazes me that republican senators would cede all their power to Cheney
Is this true??? If so...they may as well go home on Tuesday with the Dems... The Reichstag (er.. I mean Senate) will be nothing but a pile of smoldered cinders.

[Just Me]

28. A "conservative" PAC paid for a commercial against this act of,...

,...torture against democracy.

I, too, would be amazed if the entire Republican party goes with this when their own constituents are screaming "NOOOOOOO!!!!"

[peacetalksforall]

30. If Cheney, PNAC and the Fed Society pull this off, I believe they will

accompany it with a 'happening' that will deflect from discussion and dissection thus delaying the realization of what really took place. It will take months for the citizens to understand the coup (and/or the martial law declaration by Cheney as some have hinted).

I think 'a happening' will have lasting effect by the attention paid to it. People will once more be asked to show their unity for the country.

The clues are all out there.

Recently, therefore, of importance: The Koran incident, the Saddam photos, the hunt for bin Laden, the rising role of Laura. The Koran story is old. The Red Cross had testimony long ago. Some say the Saddam photos are old or doctored. Laura is definitely out there. And now bin Laden.

My guess is that something will happen which requires Bush to step back. Laura and Cheney will run the country (figuratively for Laura). Or perhaps something will happen to Laura.

There biggest worry is traditional Republicans who know or understand a little law and legislative proceedings - those Repubs who have sometimes voted for a Dem because they want to ensure there is counter-balance of power. These traditional Repubs need to have their patriotic juices renewed. They are the ones who never believed that we went into Iraq for oil.

A few fundamentalists could use some juice, but not because they would care about or understand a coup. They would applaud it.

The most important group to juice by force of a camera and microphone in their face and knowledge of statistics about their constituents are Dem leaders in Washington, plus the Governors and Mayors around the country. Just as our Washington leaders (some of them so-called) accepted the Supreme Court theft of our vote in 2000, just as they approved of the wrong war in Iraq, just as some of them accepted the Patriot Act and the deceptions and aggressions of Ashcroft, just as they accepted the put option evidence, just as they bought the findings of the 9-11 commission - they will be forced to declare that this new happening is our primary concern and make a plea to the citizens to unite.

The coup will settle in under the cloak.

This happening will result in an attack on Iran and they may do Syria at the same time.

The clues are there. Their need is obvious. There are rumors of pending revelations about something that exposes the administration.

Tell me I'm wrong. Please tell me that I'm overly influenced by Hollywood or history or aliens.

[tavalon]

57. Heck

most of the American populace hasn't figured out that there was a coup right here in America in 2000.

[hang a left]

63. I was just thinking today that something would happen to Laura.

YOu are so right. Things have been moving so fast. It is very scary.

[satya]

31. Can Cheney be charged with treason if he does this? Can we the people file

charges?

Unlike the coups of 2000 and 2004, this is being done overtly and before many witnesses.

[EFerrari]

33. I don't understand why someone - Kerry or Harkin

aren't pointing this out. Cheney is not an attractive figure? I don't think the idea of a personal power grab would go down very well with most people.

[HamdenRice]

36. You're exactly right ...

I think the Dems are framing this incorrectly. This is not about the filibuster -- it's about Cheney seizing control of yet another branch of government. And the public does not like Cheney and is afraid of him.

If they spent a few hours Monday, framing the issue this way, the maneuver would go down in flames as fast as shrub's attempts to postpone last fall's election.

[mcscajun]

34. You explain the details and the danger extremely well. A LTTE using this

text might be extremely useful.

This is the most dangerous time for our democracy.

Oddly, just last night I was thinking we've never "seen" a less-visible VP in modern times. He does his worst behind the scenes, and now when he will be visible, it'll be to deliver the stinking goods. Ugh.

[HamdenRice]

38. Further thoughts about Cheney's ABSOLUTE power

We all know that Cheney controls the presidency, by controlling the information that Bush is allowed to see, framing the issues for Bush and even cutting Bush out of the loop on crucial decisions. As this Daily Kos entry explained, Bush was deliberately cut out of the decision loop during the recent DC airspace emergency, and was allowed to continue riding his tri -- er I mean bicycle -- while Cheney was spirited out of Washington in a convoy that included visible surface to air missiles.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/13/143032/127

As for other power centers within the executive branch, remember, Cheney already has influence in the Pentagon and has already personally bullied the CIA into submission.

So, Cheney completely controls the executive branch.

Cheney has significant control of the judicial branch, because of his close relationship with the most powerful SCOTUS justice, Scalia. Keep in mind that this entire maneuver is designed to get judges approved without minority participation. The judges currently under discussion are just a warm up for the debate over the replacement of Chief Justice Rehnquist. That replacement will probably be Scalia, who will be beholden to Cheney for eliminating the Senate Rules that could prevent Scalia from being confirmed. No doubt, there will be many more "duck hunting" expeditions with Cheney and Scalia in attendence, if the maneuver occurs and Scalia is elevated to Chief Justice.

The only branch left is the legislative branch. Of course, the Republicans control Congress, but Cheney does not have person control of Congress. After the maneuver, however, Cheney will have absolute and personal control of the Senate, the only branch that before the nuclear option will have been detonated, could frustrate Cheney's absolute power.


After the nuclear option has been used -- and I don't mean ending the filibuster, I mean granting Cheney absolute power to amend Senate Rules through his individual interpretation of the Rules and the Constitution -- and after Scalia has been installed, we will be living under a one man dictatorship -- but the dictator will operate in the shadows and behind the scenes.

[MelissaB]

39. How many Republicans (if any) have said they will vote "no" on this one?

Somebody asked the question earlier, but I didn't see the answer.

[HamdenRice]

42. It looks like Frist has 50 votes

That's because in the nuclear option scenario, the Republicans appear to think they do not have the 51 votes needed for the judicial nominees to pass, even after they exercise the option. At that point, Cheney will need to act again, as the tie breaker, as VP's are empowered to do.

If they had 51 votes, they would not also be talking about Cheney as casting the tie breaking vote.

[lonestarnot]

40. Cheat'n Cheney knows the cheat'n program doesn't he...

[unblock]

43. this is not really true

it's a more straightforward tyranny of the senate majority to ignore the senate rules, to essentially use a supposed loophole to anything requiring more than simple majority. (note that this technique need not apply only to senate confirmations of judicial appointments.)

there needs to be a presiding officer to pull off this maneuver, but this is nothing special. it could be any republican who happens to be presiding at the time, which is cheney when he wants to be, but it could just as well be whoever.

and it doesn't let cheney do whatever he wants so much as it lets the majority do whatever it wants. it just so happens that the majority and cheney are in agreement on this one, but that need not always be the case.

[WillowTree]

48. If the vote is as close as it's expected to be...

....like fifty-fifty, then Cheney must be in the Chair to break the tie. "Any Republican who happens to be presiding at the time" won't do if the vote's that close, and you can bet that unless they're very sure of themselves, much surer of themselves than they are on this, they'll take no chances and he'll be sure to be there.

[unblock]

50. my point is that it's really just the majority that's ruling

cheney doesn't wield any special power in this scenario, he's just, in effect, given the same voting power as any other senator.

a majority could overrule cheney, not that the republican majority is inclined to do that sort of thing.

[WillowTree]

59. One more time..........

Unless they're very, very sure that they have the votes, the VP must be in the Chair. If it's just any Republican senator sitting in for him and the vote to accept the ruling ends-up at fifty-fifty, it will not pass. As close as this has been and with several Republicans potentially off the reservation, they won't take that chance. That's why he must be there..........to be the additional Republican in the chamber so that he can cast the deciding vote in the case of a tie.

[Sparkly]

60. I think the point the OP was making...

... had as much to do with how the rule would be changed as much as what would happen afterwards.

Cheney would change it.

[unblock]

66. one more time ...

yes, in ANY simple majority situation, the vice-president casts the deciding vote and therefore gets the power. but ONLY if the senators are tied.

to make my point clear, imagine if there were 3 more republican senators, or 3 fewer. then the "tied" scenario doesn't come up and cheney doesn't cast a deciding vote. it's the senate majority that matters, not cheney in particular. IF the senators are tied, then yes, cheney's vote matters, but no more or less than the vote of any of the 51 votes that form the majority.

you could just as easily say that frist controls it all. cheney's power as tie-breaker really is no more that if he were the 101st senator. nothing special.

[HamdenRice]

73. In a closely tied Senate, the power will be personal to Cheney

Unblock, you are correct that formally this is really about the power of the Senate Republican majority to override the rules, without following their own rules for amendment.

But what WillowTree and I are saying is that in this specific context of an evenly divided Senate, Cheney will have enormous power -- from both his ability to interpret the rules and his casting of the tie vote. You pose the hypothetical of a Senate in which the Republicans have 3 or more votes more than the 50 needed for a majority, and said that in such circumstances, Cheney would not have any special power. That's correct. But the point is, that is not the Senate we have.

Cheney will be like the swing voters in the general election or the moderate republicans in the Senate: everyone will cater to him for his all important, vote deciding power. As the rule interpreter and tie breaker on important issues, he will essentially be able to determine whether any closely decided issue passes or is defeated.

In the context of legislative, horse-trading Congressional politics, this means he will personally be able to extract concessions, hold IOUs, and generally be the most powerful person in the Senate -- which is very different from the party leadership being able to make these transactions.

[WillowTree]

44. As a matter of fact, no.

It's EXACTLY as bad as I thought. And if Frist can get his fifty votes (with Cheney to break the tie), there will be little that the Democrats will be able to do to stop it.

[Hubert Flottz]

45. I KNEW that the NAZIS in the WH, would grab for Hitler like...

power if they stayed in office past last November! Bye Bye Democracy! Hello Fourth Reich!

[DireStrike]

46. The removal of a check and balance...

And to make it worse, after that they will be able to appoint whoever they want to the judiciary. gg constitution!

[Vinca]

49. When the media does report this story, they usually include the fact

that ending the filibuster - this time around - will only affect the installation of judges. Assuming the filibuster is, well, busted, this is the beginning of the end. Besides the obvious problem of ultra right wing judges, what will stop them from voting out the filibuster when it comes to a social security vote? Nothing. They will have absolute power over everything. Isn't that the reason our founding fathers left England in the first place? I feel as if we're facing King George and his merry band of cat killers.

[Dudley_DUright]

51. Add to your scenario that Cheney will have to explicitly

ignore the ruling of the senate parliamentarian who has already said that in his view, the "nuclear" option is against the rules of the senate. From the PFAW website:

A ruling by the Chair, likely Vice President Cheney, that sustains the point of order even though it contradicts the Rules and precedents of the Senate and the advice of the Senate Parliamentarian.

[paineinthearse]

52. You and I understand this, but the corporate media is not reporting it

...this way at all.

Perhaps a DU LTTE campaign is in order.

[Zen]

55. This may be the most important issue ever posted here

Make sure everyone you know is well aware of what these sleazy Nazi's are attempting to do...

[Sparkly]

58. Thank you for this excellent explanation!

If only the MSM would report this!! All people are hearing is the meme, "They deserve an up-or-down vote." And these people are expert at staying on script (the GOP and the MSM, that is).

I have a feeling we'll be explaining this to freepers five and ten years from now, and they still won't get it. "They deserved an up-or-down vote! The minority Dems were obstructing!" Just as they still don't get anything else.

The rightwingers are amazingly effective at getting propaganda out there and turning the idiots into parrots. They revise what's happening right now and turn it into instant revisionist replays that never go away. Common myths from their revisionist history: tax cuts increase revenue, welfare cheats are the cause of high taxes, Al Gore said he invented the internet, Bush won fair and square, etc... And I have a feeling that what's happening in Congress right now will never get through their thick skulls.

Sorry for the rant. I appreciate your post! :)

[bububjones]

62. sane Republicans still exist!

contact them and give them encouragement so they don't go to the "Dark Side" at http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/bububjones/ They've been getting thousands of e-mails asking them to vote in favor of the filibuster bill. We must respond.

[DemBeans]

64. outstanding - thank you for this

I also fail to understand why the Democrats aren't hitting hard on the Cheney angle. He's an unpopular figure and is already mistrusted and disliked by most Americans.

But --- when Tuesday comes, the video footage will be of Cheney ruling, and I think that's when it will dawn on people exactly what's happened - the seizure of the legislative branch by the executive. That's when the shit will hit the fan. As mentioned, the MSM hasn't mentioned Cheney's role at all and I think Tuesday will come as quite a shock to the average Joe.

[Blue_In_AK]

65. I keep finding wonderful places to post this...

[bloom]

67. kick

:nuke:

[Hello_Kitty]

68. Really, really scared about this

They are doing this nuclear option so blatantly, as though they are not even worried about the '06 elections, with the potential of a Democratic majority Senate that they bring. Which means god only knows what they are planning to do with the unchecked power until then.

[AzDar]

69. a very horrified KICK!!!!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

70. It's just one more step in the Coup of December 2000.

[wtmusic]

71. great thread

after reading all the posts, I was reminded of a situation once where I got screwed in a business deal even though I had an unambiguous contract. The moral: a contract, an agreement, even Senate rules don't matter if someone just really wants to fuck you.

I'm going to be faxing & calling tomorrow.

:thumbsup:

[Hissyspit]

72. And remember, the majority of the public does not support this...

The right-wing is complaining that the MAJORITY rule is being oppressed, but they will, nonetheless, ignore the majority will of the people.

[jus_the_facts]

74. The MEDIA's agenda is the RW agenda........

......they OWN the media....why else do you think they aren't reporting this or anything else in it's proper context?! If you gotta wonder why then you haven't been payin' enough attention....I dare say! :think:

[wtmusic]

75. kick n/t

[DFLer4edu]

77. What they're doing is cheating!

[wtmusic]

78. kick again n/t

[rndmprsn]

80. good points...kick