Wal-Mart sales slipping=disaster for small towns.

[blondeatlast]

Let me state unequivocally that I despise Wal-Mart with every fiber of my being. They can't die off soon enough for my taste. I'm dancing in my mind with every report that they are losing business.

That being said, if WM continues to lose business, guess where they will start closing stores first. Small towns. The same ones they devastated by moving in.

I look at a small town I used to live in, Coolidge, Arizona, where a WM was built just inside the city limits. In a town wracked by poverty and unemployment, as Coolidge (still) is, it appeared a godsend to them.

Keep in mind that the downtown had pretty much already died--Phoenix is a 1/2 hour away, and 20 minutes away is a town with a decent mall.

I can't fail to mention the irony of the store being located directly across from a remarkable Native American ruin built by some of the people who originated the Arizona canals still in use, the arteries of Arizona's lifeblood. Look up from Wal-Mart, you see the magnificent Casa Grande ruins. Look up from the Casa Grande, there's a monstrous building in the middle of barren, but oddly peaceful and soothing, desert.

Anyway, from a business sense, closing the small town WMs is a smart move. There's no denying that the WM execs are savvy businessmen, so I'm pretty certain that's what they will do. There's no denying as well that they are cold, calculating, and manipulative.

Before they close these stores, I expect them to go before these impoverished smaller towns city councils and plead for every fiscal gewgaw they can get--and the city councils, grateful for the sales tax revenue, will give until they bleed. I can't really blame them, not in the least.

Coolidge is a spunky little town, built by migrant workers and former slaves. It's barely a blip on the map, but the fact that it survives to this day is a testament to its citizens.

Coolidge made a mistake in letting them come, but I understand all too well why they did--JOBS. They don't deserve the fate that awaits them. I can't imagine waht happens once the WM is gone, and it nearly has me in tears now.

God damn, how I HATE Wal-Mart. I can't wait to see Sam's heirs in Hell, I've got something to say to them.

EDIT: CLARIFICATION--I DO NOT WANT WAL-MART TO SURVIVE. I WANT THEM TO DIE A PAINFUL DEATH--but they take many innocent victims with them.

[Atman]

1. Christ, it sounds like Iraq...

Now that we're in, we've got to stay in, amid the rubble of the former town we destroyed.

Let Wal Mart turn all those Big Boxes into elderly housing complexes. All big and covered from the elements. With garden centers, and restaurants already built in. Do something positive for once. ACTUALLY help a community, not just crow that you are from giant tyvek banners silkscreened in China. *whew* Whoa...where was I. Daydreaming there for a minute.

[blondeatlast]

4. Nonononono--you've got me all wrong.

I'll edit the piece. If they vanished off the earth in my next heartbeat, it wouldn't be soon enough.

But this is gonna kill small towns like Coolidge.

[Atman]

10. Oh, I agree. But really, it is kinda Iraq-y

In the way they at once destroy communities, yet what's left comes to depend upon them. So I guess, it really isn't Irak-y...they don't depend upon us at all, they just want us gone. So I'll drop that metaphor! LOL!

But, as for the reasonss you've stated, I definitely agree. Wal Marts have become lifelines for a lot of small rural communities. Hell, drive through upstate New York...nothing for a gazillion miles, until a Wal Mart "town" pops up. That will often be the only "rest area," the only store, the only auto repair center, the only restaurant, just everything. In an odd sort of way, they've even brought a sort of "modern" lifestyle to some people who were otherwise pretty isolated. But, of course, what happens if Wal Mart falters and is forced to start shuttering the less profitable Super Duper Wal Mart Villages? We're not in disagreement, I was just ranting on yet another angle! ;)

[midnight armadillo]

14. They'll keep the land leases

When Walmarts close they hold onto the lease on the land or buy it in order to prevent competitors from moving into their old stores.

It's sort of a strip mining approach to retail - suck the community dry, leave, start over somewhere else, make all your goods come from China. A 12000 mile supply chain will not look wise in 10 years.

[blondeatlast]

16. There's no point in a town like Coolidge.

Nothing will come in to take the WMs place.

I realize you just have to trust me on this, bbut that's how it will be.

Very impoverished town and no economy to sustain it.

[Dora]

38. I'm from Phoenix originally

I know what you mean about Coolidge.

It's a dirty shame.

[whistle]

2. If Wal-Mart's sales are slipping it is because of policy, ....

...operational and marketing failures that their top management and executives have made and has very little to do with any boycott efforts launched against them.

[bleedingheart]

3. do you think it has anything to do with the fact that they have

a one model only kind of store?
That they put these big boxy structures full of inventory just anywhere?
That in heavily populated areas they will place them almost 5-10 miles apart so in essence they compete against themselves and eventually people get tired of the same old box store with cheap stuff?

[rkc3]

12. Sounds like the three stores soon to be on Route 30 near Greensburg, PA.

We'll have a Sam's Club and a Super Wal-Mart in adjacent lots and a third super store within 5 miles of these two. Add to that, we've made no infrastructure improvements to an already crowded thoroughfare.

Sure it'll take 20 minutes to go 2 miles - but think of the money we'll save once we get there.

[bleedingheart]

30. I live in that area and it is just revolting

if anything I blame the local townships for not making plans to improve the roads that residents use to move about without having to get on 30....

I have some ideas about this that I know would only be shot down...

for some reason people view traffic jams as progress...
:eyes:

[rkc3]

43. I made it to a council meeting where they discussed the one project.

Asked about the impact on traffic with the addition of the store, commented about the amount of traffic further down 30 - then watched as the glassy-eyed council persons stare in wonder.

It was like they could only think about the prospect of having the glorious facade of a new Wal-Mart only feet from their homes, that this would be their legacy - I was throwing water on their parade.

They did make one change though - they gave us an exit out of the Giant Eagle parking lot, rather than getting back on 30 to go home. BFD.

[Atman]

31. In our area, there are three WM's, plus two Sam's Clubs

All within an easy drive from each other. IF you have a car. If you don't, there are distinct differences in the stores. (I'm in the 'burbs along the south of Hartford, CT). One Wal Mart is the "bad" one. When we first moved here, we visited it because a) I wasn't as anti-Wal Mart, and b) it was the closest thing to our new home, or so I thought. But it is NASTY. Dirty, jammed packed aisles, stuff on the floors, walls, ceilings, clutter, screaming kids, screaming adults, just a veritable retail hell, like a Ridley Scott Sci-Fi vision of shopping in the future. For lack of a more polite way to say it, it's the lo-rent Wal Mart in town. If you're capable of driving five minutes in the other direction, there is a nice spankin' clean Wal Mart, with fake-pretty fake-England fake-dormers on the green tin roof, Nice white fake-brick facade (non-graffiti'd). It is surrounded by a sea of mass-market victualers like Applebees, Chili's, IHOP (coincidentally sharing a parking lot with HOPS Brewery). That store is literally a mile and a half up the road from a Sam's Club. But in that mile and a half, there are shells of at least half a dozen empty or near-empty strip malls, with crumbling concrete walls, and weed-infested parking lots. You DO have a choice if you'd like to avoid Wal Mart on this strip...Target just opened up one of their MassiveMarts across the street from Wal Mart. Ugh.

A slow boat to China!

[whistle]

34. All depends.....

...That is it depends on where the store location strategy has come in, at the bottom, middle or near the top of the marketing curve.

Obviously the retail outlet model that Wal-Mart uses is standardized to optimize the productivity of their highly automated distribution centers. It appears to be a hub and node network system, built up on layers (i.e. coastal import hubs like LA, Jax and other) where containers are dropped, then shipped to the regional distribution centers where the merchandise is logged in and stored. From there the various systems from the retail outlets kick in and operate off a "just in time" inventory model that is literally computer driven, pretty amazing to watch. It reminds me of the revolutionary concept that Henry Ford introduced back in the early 1900's for his assembly line manufacturing process, except Wal-Mart uses computers instead of armies of workers. Ford raised the standard wages of his plant workers to a level where they could afford at least one of the cars that they built.

The retail outlets whether a neighborhood style of Wal-Mart (20-30 year old concept now) or the Wal-Mart Superstore (seen for the last 10 years) the idea is high merchandise turnover per square foot of retail space alloted. It depends on merchandise movement which is driven by customer demand. To ensure a constant stream of demand Wal-Mart management like Henry Ford has focused on lowering prices to ensure maximum share of the consumer spending.

Ford saw that only the rich could afford the expensive hand-made customer built automobiles. He made it possible for literally anyone with a modest income could buy one of his Model-A's or T's which every came first. At one point Ford sold his cars for $295, an entire four passenger car, available in any color as long as it was black. Henry Ford used that formula (much more sophisticated than I have outlined here) from the beginning of his first manufacturing facilitate in 1912-13 all the way to the mid-30's when the depression was well underway. By then, many competitors for a market demand that Ford had created were each taking away a piece here and a piece there through predatory marketing practices and customer satisfaction share strategies.

Henry Ford failed to believe that the fault was in his vision, but blamed his customers and the country as being too demanding. So he tried to stop changing trends in tastes and economic conditions through monopolistic practices and limiting choices by influencing government regulations. Henry Ford even tried to corner the nation's gold supply, thinking he could influence the value of money and somehow make money be perceived as more valuable so consumers wouldn't be such spend thrifts and go back to buying his cheap automobiles. He even met with German Nazis (perhaps even Adolph Hitler) and came back hoping to install that type of government in America, because he was impressed by the discipline and obedience of the German people to Hitler's government and he thought that was what was needed here in America. Ford failed because his vision was flawed.

Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton I believe embraced similar notions about how to succeed and pass on that success to those who would follow in his footsteps. The current Wal-Mart executives strike me as the highly disciplined and obedient individuals who will take whatever actions necessary to achieve those same goals of their founder. The markets are changing though, as Wal-Mart's customer base is eroded by predatory marketing from competitors who offer what select groups want and the lower income base that is left, either have lower buying power or have possession of products that Wal-Mart continues to provide at very cheap prices. Thus, because of economic shifts Wal-Marts customers as massive as they are have lost much of their purchasing power. Wal-Mart employees at the lowest levels, are like the workers of Ford's factories in the 1930's, no longer needed and no longer able to afford to buy even what their employer has to offer regardless of price.

[Cash]

19. Good Observation.

That's very, very true. As they were adding more stores it was obvious why the value of the company was growing. The question has been once they saturate the market how will they manage what they have.

[Sir Jeffrey]

5. If Wal-Mart is to die a slow and painful death...

it will undoubtedly impact smaller communities first. That being said, the smaller communities only have so much leeway they can grant Wal-Mart before they say enough.

It is also sad that the jobs will be lost, but honestly, it would probably be better for these folks to be on unemployment until they find decent paying jobs where the employers actually pay property taxes.

Wal-Mart has an unsustainable business model...based on breaking existing laws (which aren't effectively enforced).

[blondeatlast]

9. But where do they find jobs?

Out here in the west, the small towns are 20-30 miles away from each other and the larger towns.

Coolidge, my example, is generally poorly educated, precious few college graduates, not that many HS grads, for that matter.

This is the quandary we face. I agree that almost any job would be better than WM, but where can they go?

If you could just drive through this town, the devastation is so very obvious.

[Coexist]

15. maybe the mom-and-pops that got killed off by Wal-Mart

will come back? That would be nice.

[blondeatlast]

18. I like to think so. But the "other" economy, cotton farming,

is dying as well.

But I would like to see that happen. Unfortunately many of them had closed before th WM came in.

[Coexist]

21. Sorry to hear that - I hope they find a new crop that will sustain them

I am confused as to the cotton issue - where are we importing our cotton from now? I am serious, not sarcastic, I didn't know it was dying.

[Sir Jeffrey]

23. Maybe the younger ones could go back to school...

while the older ones/those who don't want to be re-educated may have to move. That sucks, but what else can you do?

Wal-Mart is a cancerous growth out of our economy. They played smaller communities against each other for decades, forcing them to outbid each other for the "privilege" of losing tax revenue, deflating wages, and losing small businesses. I know I sound like a cold-blooded repug here, but sometimes you've got to go where the jobs are. Or you've got to retrain yourself/make yourself marketable.

In the short run, these communities are going to get killed. Esp. with ** in office, since that means no minimum wage. But think of the long term...more small businesses in a community means more local tax revenue (not shipped in truckloads to Bentonville). More revenue means more services. More services means more job openings in local govt. etc. etc. And we will get a min wage hike sooner or later.

BTW here in the south, for my soph and junior years of college I drove 35 miles to work at a Wal-Mart for 5.40 per hour because I couldn't get a job in my community. You do what you have to in order to make it.

[gpandas]

26. my home town suffered...

when the coal and steel industry went belly up. i had to move away if i wanted a decent job. my home town is a near-ghost town, and while i can empathize with the good people of coolidge, this is the way life goes. there is little that can be done for most small towns, much like the family farm and little red schoolhouse.

[Sir Jeffrey]

29. To sound even more cold-blooded than my other post...

You need to keep in mind that the rural/small communities are primarily responsible for **, 1994 takeover by Repugs, the radical christian right's takeover of the Repug party, etc. Remember the rural/urban difference is what gave us an illegal war in Iraq, 9/11, Patriot Act, etc.

Sometimes in life, you get what you vote for.

I know, having worked for Wal-Mart for over a year in a small Southern community. I listened to these people bitch and moan about having to work two jobs, being on Medicaid, not being able to buy groceries... and I almost feel sorry for them...then they turn around and vote for ** and his ilk, bitch about libruls, unions, "lazy blacks, mexicans taking our jobs", and make jokes about "ragheads" and so forth...

Will some good people get reamed? Of course, but they happen to live in communities that by and large vote for enslavement and oppression. I can't help that.

What I can do is urge people to spread the truth about Wal-Mart, encourage others to stop shopping there, and hope against hope that they go bust. It will do much more good for all of us in the long run.

[rkc3]

45. A friend of mine in Cinci said Lewis Black started his show with -

in Ohio you were given the choice of starving or getting jobs and you chose starving. What the fuck were you thinking?

I think that sums up your post.

Makes you wonder about the impact of the coverage of Michael Jackson's trial on the collective brains of murrica.

[CWebster]

6. Walmart is how the Corporate class throws a bone

to keep the pack quiet.

[KharmaTrain]

7. Always The Highest Profit...Always

Too bad there probably aren't any local merchants left in Coolidge or any nearby town since Wal-Mart all but drove them out of business.

In the late 80's, I lived in Iowa and hadn't heard of Wal-Mart. I heard incredible stories about how this great chain had low prices and how it all but killed small business districts for miles around. I didn't like that concept then, I don't now. At one time, I consulted a radio station that relied on a network for most of its programming...on those shows were lots of national Wal-Mart ads...none of that money went to the local station...and the station caught shit from the local merchants who heard the Wal-Mart ads on the station and refused to buy. The owner eventually sold to a large corporation...gone were not only the local merchants but the local station as well.

Honestly, I can't see how a place like that can fail. They have the market all but cornered in most small towns and people are all but conditioned to shop at the place...even if they don't have the money. I had to break my wife of that habit...it took a good couple years cause she just felt she had to find a bargain, and getting something for 50 cents less at Wal-Mart somehow made her feel smarter than if she bought it at Target. Go figger.

Hopefully, the folks in Coolidge are resourceful and some entrepeneurs will reclaim the main street...and start a trend that I hope spreads across the country.

[blondeatlast]

11. Unfortunatly, that isn't Coolidge.

Enormous lack of education, poverty is the norm.

This is a town that has survived since the turn of the century, but largely due to farming, and we know what is happening to that.

The farms are disappearing--the middle-class, educated heirs have no desire to return to Coolidge.

[KharmaTrain]

17. I Saw That In Iowa

Small towns are taking such a beating by this regime...ironically moreso in the red states than the blue. Cuts in funding for education and health care speak for themselves, but add to that the millions of dollars lost in the big tax breaks and there's little incentive for these towns to rebuild.

Corporations have taken control of the largest farms (trucking in the illegals to work the fields) and the family farm (remember that) is in worse shape now than in the Farm Aid days of the 80's.

It was a shame to meet people when I lived there who gave up the family farm. Yes, some got educations and wanted a more urban life, but I met a good deal who wanted to stay on the farm but they couldn't compete with the co-op or factory farm down the road that outproduced and undersold them. Kinda like how Wal-Mart works.

Unfortunately the suffering these people have are not shared...and many can't connect their plight with the abuses of this regime and its corporate sponsors.

[NewJeffCT]

39. Relative to revenues, Wal-Mart does not have high profits

I don't have an exact total with me at work, but I think Wal-Mart's net profit was around $4 billion on $288 billion in revenue. That pales in comparison to #2 ExxonMobil with $25 billion in net profit on $270 billion in revenue. Others top corporations had a much higher net than Wal-Mart - I know #5 GE had like $15 or $16 billion net profit on a little over $150 billion in revenues.

So, where ExxonMobil had 9% net profit and GE about 10%, Wal-Mart's was a thin 1.3%. Granted, it's still $4 billion or so, but their ratio sucks compared to others.

Now, if China lets their currency float, 90% of Wal-Mart's goods go up a likely 20-40% in cost.

[tanyev]

8. I hear you.

I grew up in a small town in Texas where there was no store that carried records or cassettes. Quite oppressive for a teenager who loved music. A Wal-Mart finally came in after I had already left for college. There probably were a couple local merchants that went out of business because of it, but in general the town was excited because there would be a selection of products available to them that they had never seen before.

I didn't mind Wal-Mart when they were focused on the small town market, but somewhere along the line they decided to try for world domination and I think they may eventually regret it.

[Green Mountain Dem]

13. I was in that store...

unfortunately it was the only place available for what I needed at the time. You are right about the beauty and simplicity of the ruins on the other side of the road. Some of my relatives wintered in Coolidge every year and we flew out to see them last year. We had fun and enjoyed our visit, but had feelings of guilt the entire time we were there over how Native Americans were treated.

I found this to be the case in Phoenix as well as my nephew is a police officer there and I went on a "ride along" with him. He had always been my favorite and was always the most caring and compassionate kid you would ever meet. After responding to a few calls with him, and observing how he handled them, I was sad to find that he has become so cynical and biased. It was not a fun evening and I would never do it again. I never would have thought that he had a racial bone in his body..boy was I surprised!

I still love Phoenix, and perhaps the biggest mistake I ever made was returning to Vermont after 4yrs at Arizona State in Tempe. I did try to teach for one semester, but I was a History major and 80% of my class were Native Americans...they were not at all interested in American History!! I became depressed and returned to VT and became a banker!

[blondeatlast]

20. Every time I go there, the irony gets em every time. That incredible ruin

and the monstosity across the road. It almost is physically painful.

Last time I checked, Wal-Mart was the ONLY pharmacy in town. I think the Safeway store closed theirs because they couldn't compete.

When I last lived there (I actually returned after HS for a while) there was still a mom and pop grocery run by my best friend's family and a mom and pop pharmacy.

Sad, sad, sad.

[Green Mountain Dem]

24. Think I was in that ....

store too. Is it on Arizona Blvd across the road from a big camping ground or trailer park? It was very busy every time I was there and they seemed to have everything one might need. Very friendly folks too!

[northzax]

22. why would anyone think it's coming back?

this is not a symptom of people rebelling against Wallymart, it's a direct result of rural poverty spreading like a cancer. Walmart makes most of its money in small towns, and there is no money left to be made there. It's not a Walmart problem, it's an all of us problem.

[blondeatlast]

27. Think DU is mostly urbanites. Many well-intentioned responses

just don't get it.

[Coexist]

28. actually, I live in a rural/suburban county

we only have one two-story building (our government offices).

But is is cattle mostly. The farmers are almost done selling off their land to developers, so our little town is actually growing at this point (more subdivisions, more strip malls).

Sorry I don't understand cotton farming!

[MadHound]

25. It will be disaster for some town, but probably not as many as you think

I live in the Midwest, and watched as the transformation from the family farm to the corporate farm absolutely devastated small farming communities around the state and region. There were a few small towns that dried up and blew away, and a few more than were consumed by other larger towns and cities nearby.

But amazingly enough, most of the small towns learned to adapt and thrive. One example is my home town of Hermann Mo. Very much a self sufficient farming community when I was a child, it had a bustling Main Street, with businesses that catered exclusively to the area farmers and town residents. Everything revolved around the farm in this vibrant German farming town. The only vaguely touristy thing was the annual Maifest, and that was really a very toned down local celebration done for the benefit of the local citizens in rememberance and nostolgia for the old country.

In the seventies and eighties the bottom fell out of the family farm, and Hermann was absolutely devestated. Local businesse dependent on the income from farmers closed up and left town. Tax revenue fell, and the town was in crisis mode. However a few forward thinking townsfolk looked around at the history and the resources the town had, the ooold buildings, the still vibrant German culture, and they decided that they should remake the town as a tourist destination. At first, it was the local winery that got the ball rolling, and then a few of the boarded up shops had the plywood taken off and were turned into German restraunts, flea markets, boutiques of various sorts. The town leaders expanded Maifest into a much larger festival, and then reclaimed that classic, Oktoberfest. By the late eighties the town was back on its feet. Sure, it was a tourist trap of sorts, but it had preserved its heritage and survived where other towns hadn't.

I realize that not every town can remake itself as a tourist trap. But many little burgs have brought in industries, some of a very unusual nature. In fact one little town near where I live is surviving by opening up the first biodiesel refinery in the region.

What I'm saying is don't count these little towns out yet. Most of them are resourceful and resilient. Yes, a few will go the way of the dodo, and most all of them will have a period of time when things aren't great. But most will survive and even thrive once WalMart leaves. And by having to replace WalMart with many other little stores, more jobs with better wages will be created.

[newportdadde]

36. My family immigrated and settled just south of Hermann

,my wife and I visited about 4 years ago in early Sept. It is a bit of a tourist trap but we had a good time even if we weren't into antiques all that much. We also tracked down the headstone of the father who originally brought the family over from Germany. Seeing as how noone in our family knew where it was anymore that was pretty cool.

[MadHound]

40. Way cool, glad to see another Hermann German on board

:)

Hermann and the surrounding area is absolutely beautiful, and I'm glad that the town has thrived and survived, even though it isn't the same town as in my youth. They have preserved the beauty, spirit and quaintness that makes the town special. If I don't visit when the big tourist celebrations are going on, Maifest and Oktoberfest, I can ignore the tourist trappings and relish the beauty and spirit of the town.

Glad that you found the resting place of your ancestor. If you're interested in the genealogy of the area, and your family's place in it, this site seems promising, though apparently you'll have to wait until June for all of it to be active<http://www.rootsweb.com/~mogascon/> You also might want to contact the folks at the Deutschheim Museum, they are very helpful with historical and genealogical matters<http://www.mostateparks.com/deutschheim.htm>

[ladjf]

32. Small locally owned stores will replace WalMart. The town

will be better off.

[Kazak]

33. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking...

The local owned businesses will be happy to come back in.

:shrug:

[Ron Green]

37. In order for this to happen, though, there will have to be an educational

process, a consciousness-raising if you will. People must learn about true-cost accounting to overcome the power of simple low price when they make their purchasing decisions. I don't know if enough consumers in "Middle America" can learn these lessons.

[ladjf]

42. Also, as for any community, there has to be a basic amount

of natural resources, services of products. Without those things, communities will die of atrophy.

[entanglement]

35. Is there any indication that Walmart is going to

starting closing stores in small towns?

[catmandu57]

41. It's already happened here

We had a small wal-mart here that I actually liked to go to, but, it's been shut down for almost ten years now, when they built a super center 15 miles down the road in st. joseph.
When they first opened here, it had some affect on main street, but, we were already reeling from the farm crisis, and the businesses that folded were on the way out anyway.
We've recovered too a point, a national farm supply store moved into the empty mart, and a dollar store took the former farm supply building.
Now, they're building a new strip mall next to the super center, complete with a sam's, a target and several upscale shops, that previously people had to go to Kansas City to shop at.
Now, I'm curious as to how long the mal-wart will stay open, they just gave the place a face lift, but, I've noticed fewer people shopping there.
I don't like going there, but, with a very small income I have to stretch it out,so I make at least one trip a month there for essentials.
I believe though, that soon they will start abandoning the super centers in urban areas as well, probably in favor of more sam's style stores.
As far as your little town, it's a shame, probably what will happen there is it will become another tourist town, until tourism becomes too expensive.

[DS1]

44. Fort Ticonderoga, NY is a classic case of WM moving in and

wiping out all the local businesses. Bastards. Then again, nobody forced the citizens to actually shop there, so they are victims of their own greed.

[hippiegranny]

46. Coolidge is about to boom

I work for a Phoenix landscape architecture and land planning firm. Believe me when I tell you, Coolidge is up and coming. I don't know if that is a good thing or not from your point of view. But don't worry about jobs. Coolidge isn't going to need no stinking Wally World for those, but for the same reasons, it probably won't go away with the boom that's coming.

[KamaAina]

47. Just *inside* the city limits?

The Sprawl-Mart planners must have been off their feed. The classic Sprawl-Mart model is to locate about 100 yards outside the city limits, so they can draw (suck out) customers from the city while only paying (much lower) taxes to the county.

Perhaps DU could locate a town like this and reimagine it as "DUville", with local stores and restaurants, transportation, green housing, etc.? Obviously all 70,000 of us do not have to move there at once... AZ might not be a bad option as it is getting less and less Red, and even has a Dem gov, which is more than we (or MA or NY or CA or MD) can say.