Ahhhhhhhh HA!!! I just had a lightbulb-goes-on moment!

[LynnTheDem]

My neighbor. Pretty cool person. 'Cept for one thing we argue over; gay marriage.

I say of course gays s/be allowed to marry, and by refusing them that right, you are in fact denying them rights available to others, thus making them 2nd class citizens.

Neighbor had super-silly rebuttal;

"Murder is illegal...so you're saying murder should be legal or else we'd be denying murderers their rights?"

...hey, I say incredibly stupid shit now & then, too...

My response;

"Murder is illegal for EVERYONE. It's not a case of "women can murder, but not men, or straights can murder, but not gays".

The law against murder is not discriminating against a group of people based on their eye color, their height, or their sexual preferance."

Neighhbour:

"True but I don't know...I just don't think marriage should be for anyone but man & woman. It makes me uncomfortable."

Then Neighbour, who really is a decent sort cept for this foible, struck me with a thunderbolt of enlightenment!

Neighbour: "I'm married. So people would look at me and wonder if my spouse was a male or a female...they'd wonder if I was gay. As it is now, they automatically assume I'm not gay when they know I'm married, because you can only marry the opposite sex."

AHHHHHH HA!!!

I've wondered for ages now what the hell people meant when they say "it would affect my marriage" if gays were allowed to marry. I just could not figure out how the hell their marriage could be "affected".

NOW I know what they mean!

And what an incredibly stupid reason for reducing millions of Americans to 2nd class status..."someone may wonder if I'm gay!"

Funny how I never wonder if someone I meet has a gay or straight partner; dunno why I would then wonder if they had a gay or straight marriage partner. Nowadays I'm just too busy with wondering if a person I meet is a moran or not; thankfully that's usually cleared up with their first sentence. :D

[Nite Owl]

I never would have thought

about it like that at all. They are so insecure.

[LynnTheDem]

6. No, me either! Never once did that dawn on me.

And yeah that's some deep insecurity!

[Tansy_Gold]

10. Yes, they are insecure, especially the ones who harbor

the unfaceable fear that they themselves might (horror of horrors) be gay or have occasional "gay" thoughts or think about what "gay" thoughts might be. . . . . . . .

You get the picture.

Marriage is seen by a lot of people as "proof" that they themselves are not gay. It makes them better than gays, safer, holier. Especially holier.

That's why they see gay marriage as a threat to "real" marriage. They would no longer be able to hide their insecurity behind it.

Maybe they'd feel better if they just had "HET" tattooed in bright red letters on their foreheads???

[NuttyFluffers]

18. one day they'll feel forced to march about mid-coitus to prove it...

people that insecure can never be satisfied by anything changing in the outside world. they are being haunted by internal demons that will only goad them into more sad and desperate levels of paranoia.

[FreedomAngel82]

32. Exactly

To the orginial poster the next time you come across them ask them why they're so insecure?

[Eloriel]

44. And that's why they call it homoPHOBIA

Seriously.

[Bouncy Ball]

1. So tell him to tell people

"I'm married to a woman."

It's three extra words, think he can handle that?

I'd be tempted to also say "Of course you'll never have to go to all the trouble of adding three little words because SCHMUCKS like you will make DAMN sure people who don't even cause you one bit of harm will never EVER be able to marry the person they love, ASSHOLE."

Don't mind me, in a mood.

[LynnTheDem]

9. Bouncy, would you happen to be in a mood right now?

:D

[Bouncy Ball]

27. Actually not anymore.

I went to the store and am now sipping on a nice cool wine and have some lasagna in the oven.

:D

But I'm still pissed about gay rights, that never changes.

[LynnTheDem]

34. LASAGNE!!! Ummm damn, lost your snailtrail, what was the addy again?

Hey, always worth a try where LASAGNE is concerned. :D

Gay rights lack of pisses me off too. The good news is the lack of part is now mostly only in 3rd world nations. And America.

Every other nation has/is overcoming their fears. :)

[orwell]

2. Ask Your Neighbor

If certain people are not allowed the full rights of citizenship, do they no longer have to pay taxes?

[LynnTheDem]

11. Neighbour is a damn good chap, good Dem, hates bush...and believes

fair share of taxes is every American's duty.

It's just this one issue we "fight" on; if I asked him that Q, he'd say "I'm not some damn LIBERTARIAN thank you very much!" lol!

[The Doctor.]

3. Wow... you don't perceive an insecurity you don't have...

That never ever occurred to me.
That it might make me uncomfortable if someone I spoke with wasn't sure whether I was straight or not after I told them I was married never entered my mind.

But then I usually say, "my wife..."

(And I'm pretty sure I'm not usually mistaken for a female)

Neat post - thanks.

[Karenina]

4. Repost from Yurbud that cracked me up!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

yurbud Donating member (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-23-05 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
15. The real reason men oppose gay marriage


By Les Veeryl


Legalizing gay marriage will undermine marriage and family for one simple reason: most men find it extremely difficult remaining heterosexual.

Only cultural pressure forces us to seek the company of women and competition with other men drives us to find the most attractive women, just as it drives us to buy the biggest SUV.

This is also why once we have gone to all the trouble seduce a woman, our sexual encounters are so brutal, brief, and disappointing for the woman. As much as we try not to think about it, it’s just not a man.

Most women become unconsciously aware of this over the course of their marriage, which is why they cut their hair progressively shorter and cultivate the physique of John Madden, hoping the resemblance will catch our eye and rekindle our original feigned passion.

The cultural norm of heterosexuality forces us to channel our desires into sports, so we have the excuse to touch each other in violence that society would not allow in love. As we grow older, this pattern continues with male exclusive outings like golf, hunting, and fishing. Wealthy men feel less of a necessity to preserve the façade of woman lovers and have male only clubs, where than can merrily chat naked in steam rooms and smoke cigars.

It is torture enough to be forced by our wives to watch Will & Grace and Queer Eye for the Straight Guy and see the care-free life of abandoning society’s blind devotion to procreation. I have to remind myself that it’s just a TV show, that there aren’t really people like that in the world.

But what if men were allowed to marry?

That could be enough to push many of us over the edge.

If I knew society would tolerate my true orientation, what would stop me from telling that blonde guy at the club that he looks good in the shower, and then asking him out for more than a beer? And unlike a woman, who requires months of pleading and showering with gifts before sex, another man would gladly give it up in the parking lot on the way to get the beer.

What would make my son, a handsome running back who just started shaving his chest, strive to achieve at school and establish a career if he knew instead he could simply find an older sugar daddy to marry who will shower him with gifts and pedicures?

President Bush has proposed banning gay marriage not out of ignorance prejudice or spite, but personal necessity. On a trip to Canada a while back, he said to the Prime Minister’s press secretary:

Well, you got a pretty face. You got a pretty face. You're a good-looking guy. Better looking than my Scott anyway.Text


More recently, he actually had a gay prostitute pretend to be a reporter in White House press conferences as some sort of role-playing fetish.

If even our president can barely restrain his homosexual impulses, isn’t obvious that a constitutional amendment banning marriage is all that stands between us and a fashion-conscious, color-coordinated, poodle-walking Armageddon?

[NuttyFluffers]

23. an absolute riot! should be immortalized in bronze!

fashion-conscious, color-coordinated, poodle-walking armageddon, indeed!
:spray::rofl:

[LynnTheDem]

26. rotflmao!!!

That's hilarious! :rofl:

[SmokingJacket]

5. Wow. I think you just discovered something important.

"People might think I'm gay -- even though I have a wedding ring!"

Ay-yi-yi.

I wish people would think just a little harder about their motives. Honestly, is feeling a little uncomfortable a legitimate reason to deny someone the right to marry? IS IT?

[LynnTheDem]

29. No, not a legit reason at all, and he'd be one of the first to say so,

I think.

But he feels uncomfortable and he said that's why...now he knows this, hopefully he can overcome it.

[SmokingJacket]

39. Good -- I'm glad you had the patience and tenacity to have

that conversation.

Lately I just throw up my hands. (Which is wrong, I know. I'm going to try taking a leaf out of your book.)

[LynnTheDem]

40. Usually I just smack people upside the head...

:D

...but he's a good guy other than this (and neighbors I gotta live next to, lol!)

[Carolab]

7. That's not their reason. That's their excuse.

Bigotry/homophobia is their reason.

Think about it. You meet someone--is your first thought "I wonder if they're gay? Hmm, I see they are married; guess not!"

Even if someone wondered whether your partner was same sex or not, you can easily clear this up by using the proper pronoun: he or she.

What a stupid neighbor you have indeed.

[Stinky The Clown]

8. No one would ever mistake my wife for a man.

What does your friend's wife look like?

(NO that was NOT a 'looksist' statement ........ it was irony ..... or whatever ..... just in case anyone failed to get that .... okay? ..... I'm just taking the time and doing the disclaimering before I get flamed.)

[Nite Owl]

17. I think it was about if your wife

wasn't with you. Like you got a wedding band on and maybe talk of a wife and the other person could then think that hmm wonder if his wife is a woman or a man. That would make them uncomfortable and defensive. See just how much we don't think that way! Or even care if someone thought that.

[Stinky The Clown]

36. Hahahaha .... yeah .... I guess you're right

My head never even went NEAR that thought!

What you say makes more sense ..... but then makes me thing .... how insecure is the guy?

But then ..... I'm a man who carries a purse (one of those 'man bags' that were all the rage in Europe in the 80s). My best friend is a former Marine who is probably the only man alive who went to .... ballet school on the GI Bill! Between us we have two gorgeous wives and more kids than the ZPG folks would like.

Nah .... I just can't get my head around this sort of lopsided, homophobic, self-doubting thinking.

[Cleita]

12. Yeesh! I never was even interested, when I met someone, if

they were married or not, unless it was some guy hitting on me. I really didn't care. I knew that their marital status would eventually be made known and it didn't matter to me if that person was someone I liked and wanted to be friends with.

[merbex]

13. My next door neighbor is gay;we live in MA. Last year I was

dragging HIM to meetings.


People where he works were going out of their way to discuss this topic with him. Mocking him in a sense,at least that is what he conveyed to me at the time. I kept asking him "why aren't you more forcful in your defense of this ? The State's highest Court says everyone in this Commonwealth is EQUAL!!" He is one of those people who can think up a response AFTER but this subject was emotional for him.

Finally I said to him "the next time someone asks you about this say you want what they take for granted; that you pay taxes too,and if your money is good enough to help pay for the printing of those marriage licenses and maintaining every other document and service in this Commonwealth you have a right to pull a marriage license too. If not then you shouldn't have to pay taxes.

He said this and they shut right up

I truly believe people respect people that stand up for themselves

[gumby]

14. The expansion of civil rights always threatens the social order.

At any given point, we perceive our place in the pecking order. When that order is threatened, we fret, "well, what will happen to my perks and privileges?"

Same-sex marriage obviously threatens your neighbor's perceived privilege of automatically being acknowledged as straight.

Let's face it, men (especially white men) hold a privileged place in this society. If he's not a "man" anymore, then how does he measure his privileges?

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

15. But gay marriage

does affect me. I have more couples I have to buy presents for. :)

[LynnTheDem]

31. AAAAAAAAAAACK!!! I never thought of that...

And I HATE buying wedding pressies as it is coz it's so damn difficult coming up with unique gifts that work for BOTH people and WHAT THE HELL do you buy for newlyweds who've been living together for ages as most the gay couples we know have been and who HAVE everything already...!


*NO GAY MARRIAGES!!! DOWN WITH GAY MARRIAGES!!!

Heh! :D

*Yes I'm just kidding!

[aquart]

16. Is that why he got married?

So no one would suspect he was gay?

Oh. Dear.

[LynnTheDem]

25. Not as far as I can tell.

Dunno. Not gonna ask, lol!

[Stevious]

43. Don't ask, Don't tell?

It might be interesting to follow that line of questioning, and see where it leads.

:evilgrin:

[LynnTheDem]

45. I wouldn't ask coz it isn't my business. And he lives next door.

Never piss off neighbors if ya don't have to!

LOL!

[Fire Walk With Me]

19. How about an official "I'm not gay" Republican T-Shirt/Bumper Sticker

So that everyone will know, and everything will be okay.

[kiki]

20. I think that one bit says it all:

"It makes me uncomfortable."

Yeah, well, murder makes people dead. Making people dead = illegal. Making people uncomfortable = deal with it.

As for the "they'd wonder if I was gay" line... erm, tell your husband/wife to lay off the eye shadow/steroids. That should clear things right up.

[StatGirl]

21. Borowitz report: 70% OF EXISTING MARRIAGES MAY ALREADY BE GAY

The Bush White House’s plan to push for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriages suffered a surprising setback today as a new study revealed that well over seventy percent of existing marriages may already be gay.

. . .

“Soon after marrying, most men stop hitting on women and start shopping for furniture,” Dr. Cranborn said. “Scientifically speaking, how gay is that?”

Remainder at: http://www.borowitzreport.com/archive_rpt.asp?rec=807

[LynnTheDem]

24. LMAO!!! Borowitz cracks me up!

Love him! :)

[Jade Fox]

22. You got it. Being a married straight person....

is like the official badge of hetrosexualness. Your orientation can not
be questioned.

Of course, never mind how many gay people are hiding in straight
marriages.

[Stevious]

42. yea, either that or becoming a priest...

oh, wait... that's not right either.

O8)

[Flying Dream Blues]

28. Amazing!

This never would have occurred to me! But I'll bet this is true for many who are "uncomfortable" with it. Thanks for posting this...it is very illuminating.

[LynnTheDem]

33. Never would have me either, and I'm quite pleased to have learned this,

because it may help people overcome it. And it gives me some insight into how to gently encourage such people to realize why they're against gay marriages and the silliness of their uncomfy-ness and how making others suffer for it just isn't the right thing to do.

Telling such people that they're 'just homophobes' doesn't work very well, imo. It just makes them defensive and it doesn't change their comfy levels.

Now I gotta go try this out on someone else I know who's against allowing gays marry...

:)

[lonestarnot]

30. There all fucking homophobes!

[LynnTheDem]

35. Yeah but I've personally found telling them that in that way isn't always

an effective way to change them. :D

[Melynn]

37. Dumb

You might want to explain to you neighbor that being married "to a member of the opposite sex" doesn't mean you're not gay. Unfortunately some gay people try to hide their sexual orientation by getting married to "a member of the opposite sex".

Hopefully times are changing and gay people won't feel the need to engage in this type of charade anymore but it has been known to happen.

[B Calm]

38. Lynn the next time you talk to her ask her how may gays she knows

that are wanting to get married. Then you might point out how the republican party comes up with all these wedge issues to get people like her to vote against their own interests, thus shooting their self in the foot to keep people she doesn't even know from being happly married.

[0007]

41. Good point!