The REAL reason for the "nuclear option"

[yankeedem]

It's not about choice, it's not about religion. Not really, at least to the "real" source of power in this country.

It is about being able to use radical right judges to roll back legislation, from social services, to right to due process, to civil rights.

It is about using the courts to do things that an (elected) legislator would never be able to get away with

It is to insulate the Republican Congress from having to vote on any issue that could be used in a campaign.

I have found that if you want to know what the Cons are doing, find out what they accuse liberals of doing. They accuse us of legislating from the bench. In fact, this IMO is exactly what they wish to accomplish with the "nuclear option".

[Frederik]

1. Exactly

The intention is to insert right-wing activist judges on a simple majority in order to facilitate the transformation of a secular republic into a theocratic empire.

[yankeedem]

3. Theocracy isn't the game, in my opinion

Do you think the power center of the country gives a damn about the Bible? I don't believe Scaife, Coors, Weyrich, Cheney and the like have a spiritual bone in their body. If they did they wouldn't murder on a daily basis.

Religiously minded people, up to and including the Cat Killer, are just useful idiots to these people to impress their fascist agenda.

[Frederik]

9. Yeah, but it's a great way to manipulate people

Don't misunderstand, I don't think the repug bigshots care about JC at all. But they need to give their constituency that impression. Then they can slash the constitution and establish the rule of Gawd, which is to say themselves.

[yankeedem]

14. Righto

Faith is a tool they use to stop people from asking questions, like "Why don't I have healthcare", or "Why don't I have a job" or "Why did my son die in Iraq"

[PurityOfEssence]

18. I'm sayin' you're INCREDIBLY wrong

This stems from the bigotry of believers: god is good, and belief in god is a wondrous thing that brings joy and happiness. I say that this is crap. Believers with a conscience constantly shield themselves from the world with the self-deception that those using religion for ulterior motives are "not true believers". Sure, many aren't. Many professional evangelists are probably cold-blooded non-believers who use it for their advantage, but many truly believe themselves superior and on a mission to save the world. It's not enough to just curry the favor of the lord for saving a few individuals, many actually take up the sword of intolerance to destroy all else and get the big daddy to pat them on the head.

I utterly dismiss your contention that "belief" is a good thing or a sign of decency. In the Christian world, saving one's ass is the only thing that really matters, and there's nothing more selfish than a worldview like that. The other teachings, no matter how noble and decent, are SECONDARY TO SAVING ONE'S PERSONAL ASS.

It's sickening to hear on a constant basis how all the tsunamis of hatred and ugliness aren't really justified by the religions that are used to justify them. That's crap. They are. Belief systems are exempt from proof and endlessly used to wreak havoc; beyond the useful mechanics there, the basis of most of the major belief systems is of self-justification and dominance.

Here's the problem: the premise. The premise of most believers is that "religion is good". I ABSOLUTELY reject this. The subjugation and ugliness that's justified by the major religions isn't a misuse or misinterpretation, it's just a deft use of the tools at hand. Those tools aren't accidental, either: religions are political organizations, and their chief function is to control people and kill dissent.

You'll find rottweiler and pit-bull owners who constantly claim that their little doggies aren't designed to kill, but they're full of shit too.

[yankeedem]

19. I believe the point of my post went INCREDIBLY over your head

The leaders of the NeoCons have no interest in religion. Some claim Christianity, some claim to be Jews, most have no clear religious underpinnings. Ever seen Cheney and Weyrich, and people like Phyllis Schafley in church? THEY are the power behind people like * and Frist, not Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell.

They get power by manipulating easily led religious people by using the so called words of God. It is a TOOL to gain power.

And once manipulated, these useful idiots, the sheeple in the pews will say anything to justify the actions of the real power brokers.

[Minnesota_Lib]

21. I disagree...

I believe a theocracy is one of the goals of the neocons—a theocracy whose authoritarian rule will be used to keep the masses in-line and to which the power elite will be immune.

The one of the main Straussian/neocon goals is to eliminate liberal society and the individualism it breeds—which they see as leading to a moral breakdown. Yes, they are probably mostly a secular lot but religion is a perfect tool (myth) for them to use to subjugate the masses and inhibit individualism and its by-product, moral relativism. We are headed, IMO, to a two-tiered society.

The theocratic: 90-95% of the population will be under this rule. This is where the cannon fodder will be bred for the post-peak oil imperialist plans of the power-elite. There are plenty of freeper/religious wacko-types to fill the brown-shirts of some type of “Homeland Security” force whose job it will be to ferret out all of us “anti-American, pro-terrorists, anti-God subversives” and keep the rest living in fear. The visible government will be made up of religious wack-jobs whose only concern will be domestic law and social (i.e. moral) issues. In a few generations the population of the U.S. will be uneducated, low paid, highly “teethed” drones (the rest will be dead or in forced labor camps serving large corporations). The best and brightest may receive scientific training so as to serve in weapons R&D. The media/propaganda machine will churn out stories to the masses about on how this harsh existence can be blamed on the excesses of our liberal past.

The internet as we know it will cease to be accessible to most Americans. Corporations will look to foreign markets to hawk their products. All military, economic and foreign policy (as well as the media) will be in the contol of the power-elite.

The Neocon/corporate oligarchy: this “stealth” government will wield the real power (and almost all of the wealth). Holed up in the last pristine, pollution-free areas of this nation (how does the exclusive, gated summer community of Yosemite sound hehehe), they will rule from on-high, totally immune to the strict laws (and violent enforcement of thereof) that govern the “great unwashed.” They will have total control over the military (a hold-card in case the theocratic leaders get out of hand). The myth of al-Qaeda (or some other invented boogyman) will be used to justify military invasions of nations found to be supporting this great unseen enemy—it will just be a coincidence that these nations will all just happen to sit on top of the last remaining oil reserves.

I know this sounds wacky, but everything I see points to a future very much like this.

OK, putting away my tinfoil hat now. :D


edit: spelling error

[seemslikeadream]

8. Theonomic Reconstructionism

[Frederik]

10. LOL

He does have something angelic about him.

[seemslikeadream]

13. Dominionism, Reconstructionist Christians, Harold Ahmanson

Ahmanson, counter of America's votes, has admitted "My purpose is total integration of biblical law into our lives."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3016509

:hi:

[catzies]

17. I just had to ook up "theonomic." Good word!

And apt.

[havocmom]

2. And the fact that there are gonna bee openings on the Supreme Court soon

and they wanna go hog wild appointing facists pigs to that bench.

[housewolf]

4. I agree with you

it's about packing the courts with far-right conservatives.

They can't get the agenda they want passed through legislatures - bans on abortions and gay rights/marriage, prayer in school, religion in government, etc - so they're trying to create a biased court system that they can use to get their agenda imposted.

[chelsea0011]

5. This idea, in these divided times, that the President should nominate

anyone they so want is lunacy. The right is looking to consolidate all of the power to bring a repressive change to this country.

[gordianot]

6. They may also attempting to consolidate a power base when they fall.

It is coming the deficit spending and financial irresponsibility will catch up. By loading the courts with RW radicals they would have a base of control after they lose either or both Congress and the Executive Branch. Then we will find out who really has a radical agenda.

[bain_sidhe]

7. Here's the real reason in a nutshell...

[unhappycamper]

11. Next stop 1890.

Tough times coming. Too bad we did not learn from history.

[newscott]

15. But at least we get to relive it!

I for one, am looking forward to paper shirt collars again! :mad:

[Junkdrawer]

12. "find out what they accuse liberals of doing"....

Noticed that too, did ya?

:hi:

[leftofthedial]

16. yep

[ariellyn]

20. I agree, they want to tip the scales so there's no chance for

balance in the courts. Every vote will be in their favor--the courts will be like a genie in a bottle for them if these nominations go through.

[Melynn]

22. Its a bid for total power

With the filibuster rule gone the right wingers will control the courts and there will be nothing to stop them.

I think some "moderate" Republicans in the Senate realize that and that is why they are searching for a compromise. The joke is on these "centralist". The radical right isn't going to compromise on this issue. The question is does Frist has the votes to change the filibuster rule. Right now, I don't know.