BBC RELEASES MORE EVIDENCE ILLEGAL WAR IRAQ

[shraby]

This is being posted at dailykos

<http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/23956/5887>

[lady lib]

1. Thanks for posting this. n/t

[Roland99]

42. *** Short Version of Apian's diary on Downing Street documents ***

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/10829/7818

[Nothing Without Hope]

50. Very creepy - comments there cite trolls and ask for no links

For example:

I want to repost now (none / 0)

I'm just asking for no links. Anybody can find it. They just never considered it was that important until I brought it up.

I suppose what I'm doing is manipulating the situation to BREAK THROUGH THE US MEDIA BLACKOUT.

Who controls the media, controls the fates.

by Apian on Wed May 18th, 2005 at 08:23:58 PDT

Wonder what happened to the original linked Kos diary in the opening post? It's gone now. The diarist says it is NOT copyright issues. Putting these pieces together, does it sound to you as it does to me that there's some kind of outside effort to block this story?

[Nothing Without Hope]

65. NEW LINK - replacing dead link. Kos diarist Appian has put up story again:

Time of new post: Wed May 18th, 2005 at 08:54:27 PDT. I've posted the link and an excerpt downthread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3678659&mesg_id=3680931

[Stand and Fight]

2. kick and bookmark n/t

[LightningFlash]

3. This is disturbing.

I hope all 90 congressman and at least 20 senators are on top of this.

[Disturbed]

4. Will any of the top Dems speak out now?

So far they have been silent about this. Shame on them!

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. Kucinich has been quite vocal but routinely ignored.

[NewJeffCT]

16. I hope all 435 congressional reps are on it!

and, welcome to DU.

[Blue Belle]

61. It would be nice...

But the track record isn't great.

[LightningFlash]

107. Conyers is who called for it....

Surely many more senators can get on top of this. Be sure to email any senators you know of with it.

http://senate.gov

[freeplessinseattle]

5. hell yeah! I knew there was more waiting to bite bushco in the ass

time for the PNAC to fess up.

[Carolab]

6. Can we get rid of Blair and just rejoin England?

This democracy thing didn't work out very well.

[DearAbby]

8. Why am I surprised?

:wow: the audacity of these people...Hey Congress, it's all in black and white...not just one leaked memo but seven of them


just plain WOW :wow:


Come on people lets get some legs on this news.

[ktowntennesseedem]

43. Yeah, why not?!?!

We've already done a pretty good job destroying the constitution; let's just go ahead and rip up the Declaration of Independence while we're at it! Maybe they'll take us back. Of course we'll have to start talking funny and learn to drive on the left, but I think I could handle it.

:banghead:

[bananas]

7. link found

I googled the first line of the transcript and found it here,
it's dated DATE: 20:03:05 which I think is March 20, 2005.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/programmes/panorama/transcripts/iraqtonyandthetruth.txt

[Carolab]

12. Bolton

August

JOHN BOLTON
United States Under Secretary of State
Let there be no mistake, our policy insists on regime change in Baghdad. We are content that at the appropriate moment we will have the requisite degree of international support.

But if you don’t have it, and all the indications are that at the moment you wont, then what?

BOLTON: We will have it Mr Humphries.

[Nothing Without Hope]

54. Yeah, he's been their bully and co-conspirator all along. No wonder they

want him - they want their planned wars to start on time, none of that wimpy "diplomacy" stuff.

[chomskysright]

79. yep: Bolton: PLANNED WARS STARTING ON TIME

[Pachamama]

9. Whoa! This smoking gun is exploding!

:wow:

[LightningFlash]

10. Into a NUKULUR reaction it seems....

[Pachamama]

11. Hey there and welcome to the DU!

:hi:

We love newbies, especially freethinking ones from Texas! :hug:

:toast:

[Swamp Rat]

13. Oi Pachamama!

Thanks for your input the other day. :hug:

[Pachamama]

14. My pleasure Swamp Rodent!

:hug:

[Swamp Rat]

15. I''ll be ready for 'em next time!

I've started my new diet! :D

[leftchick]

17. Sent to Keith O.

I hope he uses it tonight.

[shraby]

18. Kick this for the morning people

They need to get the word out. :kick: :kick:

[steve2470]

19. kick nt

[Nothing Without Hope]

55. Hope you sent him the updated link - the old one is now dead

Here's the new one:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/10829/7818

[jojo54]

66. Thank you, thank you, thank you,

I just tried the old link with no success.

[Nothing Without Hope]

69. Note that Kos Diarist Appian just put up the story again

after apparently deleting it twice before. Not clear why; she said she was being trolled.

Here's the new link, just put up Wed May 18th, 2005 at 08:54:27 PDT:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/115427/494

(But it wouldn't hurt to also cite the "shorter version" with the BBC links that is given elsewhere in this thread:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/10829/7818)

[ima_sinnic]

70. that is a blank page

tired of being jerked around, why don't they just leave it up there?
and what do LINKS have to do with it.

[Nothing Without Hope]

72. Maybe it went down and up again - this link still works for me:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/115427/494

[ima_sinnic]

73. blank. jut the ads and stuff on either side,nothing down the middle.

[jojo54]

67. I'm glad you did that

although he might have already scripted tonight's program. I believe he will use it soon though. He's a tough old coot and I love him for it!

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. Time to blow my own trumpet

I tried to publicise this BBC programme yesterday (before DailyKos picked it up), but only one other DUer seemed interested then. Oh well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3670923

There's also links to the Telegraph article which first published some of the leaked memos back in Sept 2004.

[katinmn]

31. Don't take it personally.

We're all experiencing information overload.

It happens to all of us. We post stuff, it gets overwhelmed by other information. The more people that notice an issue and post on it, the better chance the message will get out there.

It's a team effort. It would be nice, though, if everyone sourced back to the original poster. :-)

[Pacifist Patriot]

21. Minutes instead of a memo? Wow!

[Toots]

37. Yes that is how we should be referring to these

Official Government Minutes of an Official Government Meeting not just some memo.

[Just Me]

23. If this were a criminal trial, the overwhelming evidence would lead to,...

,...a conviction for "high crimes and misdemeanors". The neoCONs intentionally betrayed the American people.

[tjdee]

24. What was happening here in July 2002?

So we had just been attacked, in September....

Is there a timeline anywhere? Because I'm not seeing the significance of these minutes, or the memo, other than that the evidence was nil (didn't we know that?)...obviously if you're going to invade a country for no reason, that's something you have to plan in advance...

Now if we could get *why* they were so hot for "regime change"...

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. Timeline here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/4336727.stm

July 2002 wasn't a particular point, other than it was when the "fixing the facts" phrase was used. They had intended to put out a public dossier earlier, showing how dangerous they though Saddam was, but delayed it when they realised they had no evidence. Then the fixed the facts over the summer, brought in 'evidence' from Iraqi exiles being paid by the CIA (and didn't allow the experts to comment on the dodgy stuff like the 'WMD can be launched in 45 minutes' crap), and, voila, by September, they had a dossier they could claim showed Iraq was a danger.

The memos show that Britain knew the intelligence was bogus - 'sexed up', as the BBC reporter, who lost his job, called it. They also say that the 'invade to spread democracy' idea is bollocks - Bush had given no thought as to what would follow Saddam.

[myrna minx]

27. Wow.

Now the true "cut and paste" plagiarism job of Blair's dossier is completely clear. Wow.

[Coexist]

26. Wow

[chalky]

28. Oh, yes! YES!

I'm bookmarking this puppy.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

29. Boffo! Socko! Other Variety Cliches!

Reading and re reading and sending everywhere I can


:kick:

[G_j]

30. nominated

at least this evidence can be used when Bush is called to the Hague, seeing as how most of Congress seems to find war crimes and treason acceptable.

[Roland99]

32. Holy Mackerel! Look at all of that!!!

:wow:

[TornadoTN]

33. Good stuff, but will it matter?

To think that the US media will pick up on any of this stuff is just irresponsible. This will probably be spun into a "smear effort" by the British press over Galloway (a "socialist") and quickly discounted.

I have several friends and business contacts overseas and they all have told me that this stuff has been out there for a LONG time, some of it even before the war. But miraculously, we never see any of it.

[bunny planet]

34. I think this needs to be sent to Conyers asap.

[Dukkha]

35. the link is dead

"Sorry. I can't seem to find that story."

[sinkingfeeling]

36. Remember, Blame it on Newsweek!! Why is this so-called

administration throwing a fit about Newsweek when they just made up the lies they told the world? Can anyone spell "hypocrite'?

[hvn_nbr_2]

38. That's what I get too

I can't tell from the discussion even a hint of what the story is/was about. I can't find anything about it at Kos.

[Betsy Ross]

39. Searched BBC too

no sign of the story.

[PA Democrat]

45. This link worked for me

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/4336727.stm

[Nothing Without Hope]

48. Old link: "last updated Friday, 29 April, 2005, 16:13 GMT 17:13 UK"

Is that what it said when you looked at it? What's going going on here?

Why is this story at Kos and elsewhere disappearing?

[muriel_volestrangler]

49. That's the point - some of this had already come out

The BBC Panorama programme was in March (I think the updated the webpage with something in late April), and some of its information came from the Telegraph story in September 2004. What happened on 1st May was we got the full text of the Rycroft memo, where the BBC and the Telegraph had given sections of it before, not necessarily with the exact wording.

I've no idea how Daily Kos organises its stories, though.

[Nothing Without Hope]

52. Very interesting - the diarist is citing trolls. Looks like there's

an effort to block this information from coming out, would like to know more about that. I'm looking at the comments to this Kos post:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/10829/7818

[understandinglife]

94. Last Updated: Friday, 29 April, 2005, 16:13 GMT 17:13 UK -- Link ....

.... still active.

Iraq, Tony & the Truth

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/4336727.stm

The Prime Minister is convinced that he was right to invade Iraq. To do so, he needed the backing of Labour MPs. Two years on, Panorama tells the story of what Mr Blair did not reveal to them, and us, before sending British troops into battle.



Iraq, Tony and the Truth: Timeline

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/programmes/panorama/transcripts/iraqtonyandthetruth.txt

I've archived a copy of the site and the transcript.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[Roland99]

40. Interesting.

[Pacifist Patriot]

41. I'm getting that now too. Damn I wish I'd copied and pasted it.

[Roland99]

44. See my post #42 above...shortened version of the diary

Short Version of Apian's diary on Downing Street documents
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/10829/7818


Full BBC Transcript
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/programmes/panorama/transcripts/iraqtonyandthetruth.txt


Plus, here's some stuff I culled before the link was pulled:

Some key points from the entry:

FINANCIAL TIMES

April 20 / April 11 2002

Blair dossier on Iraq is delayed indefinitely.

WARE: In London there was still no sign of No.10's much heralded intelligence dossier which promised to show why Saddam was a threat to Britain.

21 April 2002

DAVID FROST: Someone else said to the FT it was insufficient to convince critics within the Labour Party that the full scale offensive against Iraq was justified. Is that why it was pulled?

BLAIR: No, and it wasn't pulled. Both of those things are absolutely wrong.

WARE: Absolutely wrong? A memo has since been leaked that shows the Financial Times was on to something.

Memo

From: Peter Ricketts,

Foreign Office Political Director

To: Foreign Secretary

I am relieved that you decided to postpone publication of the unclassified document. My meeting yesterday showed there was more work to ensure that the figures are accurate and consistent with those of the US. But even the best survey of Iraq's WMD programmes will not show much advance in recent years. The programmes are extremely worrying but have not, as far as we know, been stepped up

July

WARE: But the American military were stepping up manoeuvres in the Gulf region. For the Whitehouse it was no longer whether there was going to be an invasion, it was when.

RICHARD HAASS

Director of Policy Planning

US State Department 2001-2003

Well the first time I came away persuaded that a war was 99% likely was in early July of 2002 during one of my regular sessions with Condoleeza Rice, then the National Security Adviser. I was uneasy about it, thought that it raised questions to me at least whether it was worth it, and when I began to raise this concerns Condi's reaction was essentially save your breath, hold your fire, this decision has pretty much been made, this is where the President is

ENTER THE DOWNING STREET WAR COUNCIL MINUTE 23 July

WARE: A week later the Prime Minister chaired a highly sensitive meeting. It may prove to be one of the most significant on his road to war. Just back from Washington was the head of MI6. "Military action, he reported, was inevitable.

Reconstruction based on Lord Butler's Inquiry

WARE: Several well placed sources have told us that Sir Richard Dearlove was minuted as saying: "The facts and the intelligence were being fixed round the policy by the Bush administration." By 'fixed' the MI6 chief meant that the Americans were trawling for evidence to reinforce their claim that Saddam was a threat. Not for the first time the Foreign Secretary questioned whether the threat was sufficient to justify invasion.

PHILIPPE SANDS QC

Author "Lawless World"

My understanding is that at that meeting Jack Straw made clear I think his view that "the case was thin" as it was put and that other countries, such as Libya or Iran or North Korea, had a greater weapons of mass destruction capability than Iraq

WARE: The Prime Minister was now in a race against time to persuade Labour MPs and the public that intelligence on Iraq justified invasion. But as it stood the government knew the intelligence might not be convincing. Two thirds of MI6's reports on Iraq came from just two main sources. MI6 was now tasked to extract as much intelligence as possible from their few agents.


Dr BRIAN JONES

Defence Intelligence Staff

1987-2003

There was an appeal, if you like, for people to look and think very closely about the evidence that was available.

WARE: This intelligence trawl was intended to build up the government's dossier. News that the dossier was going to be reworked soon spread around Whitehall.

Apian's note: This is the September Dossier that was "sexed up.")

JONES: It was mentioned to me by a colleague in the Margins of a meeting in Whitehall. Our shared reaction was that that would be a considerable challenge because of the relatively sparse nature of the intelligence available on Iraq's WMD.

WARE: The Bush administration was so convinced the British Prime Minister had committed himself to regime change that some of them began to talk publicly about having allies.

ENTER JOHN BOLTON, (DIPLOMAT?)

August

JOHN BOLTON

United States Under Secretary of State

Let there be no mistake, our policy insists on regime change in Baghdad. We are content that at the appropriate moment we will have the requisite degree of international support.
But if you don't have it, and all the indications are that at the moment you wont, then what?

BOLTON: We will have it Mr Humphries

WARE: Another Bush insider also said he was confident about one ally in particular - Britain.

RICHARD PERLE

US Defence Policy Board

Our European allies are just not relevant to this, and the one of some importance, the United Kingdom, is, I believe, going to be with us.
WARE: Remarks like these put the Foreign Office in a spin. The Foreign Secretary flew to America to interrupt the holiday of the US Secretary of State, Colin Powell. "We understand" Jack Straw complained "you've outed us." He said: "The British government had yet to prepare public opinion."

WARE: But this is quite an important point, this gap between what we now know he knew and what he said in public. You still are of the view that that gap can be explained by good faith, not by dishonesty.

COOK: I've no doubt he believed that those weapons were there. What surprised me, astonished me, about the September dossier was how one-sided it was. It was propaganda. It was not an honest presentation of intelligence.

[Nothing Without Hope]

47. What happened? Any idea why the Kos link was pulled? Is this stuff

being disappeared?

:tinfoilhat:

[Stand and Fight]

51. I noticed that just now myself.

What the hell happened to it? I just get the Kos page with the message, "Sorry. I can't seem to find that story." Just what the hell happened to the story?

[Nothing Without Hope]

53. Reading through the comments, including by the diarist, at this Kos

page with a shortened version, it looks like there is an effort to keep the information from coming out. Trolls are mentioned, and the diarist asks for no links.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/10829/7818

Very creepy.

[Stand and Fight]

56. ... This is NOT good.

My intuition is screaming at me. Something very nasty is going on.

[Nothing Without Hope]

58. Me too. We'd better download all we can in case more of the story

disappears. I hope the diarist is safe, and I'm glad that Kos made it clear that the computers actually handling his site are NOT in his home.

[muriel_volestrangler]

60. Is there stuff on Kos that's not on the BBC site?

Apart from reader comments, that is.

[Nothing Without Hope]

63. Yes, a quick side-by-side comparison shows differences in the dates

for which there are cited events. I haven't checked for actual discrepancies, but there are a number of dates for which specific events are cited in the Kos diary but not in the BBC timeline. Don't know how those dates are being filled in by the diarist. I also am wondering what the diarist (Appian) is referring to - what is she trying to do? - in this series of comments on the Kos page:

---------------------------------
Thanks, Steven (none / 0)

Apian's full version has gone missing in the last ten minutes, only a blank where it's supposed to be.
Very worried about that...but at least we have your synopsis as a back up short-term.

by Rayne on Wed May 18th, 2005 at 07:09:14 PDT
< Parent | Reply to This | >
---------------------------------------------
Also thought it was odd (none / 0)

that the counterpunch link apian cited was gone from their site

by applegal on Wed May 18th, 2005 at 08:01:34 PDT
< Parent | Reply to This | >
-----------------------------------------
The article was by Linda S. Heard (none / 0)

It's called
D-Day for Tony Blair
Counterpunch published it, I don't remember who else.

Who controls the media, controls the fates.

by Apian on Wed May 18th, 2005 at 08:10:55 PDT
< Parent | Reply to This | >
------------------------------------
I was being trolled (none / 1)

Who controls the media, controls the fates.
by Apian on Wed May 18th, 2005 at 08:06:34 PDT
-----------------------------------
Sorry to hear that (none / 0)

Should we repost it under another diary or diarist?
Georgia10, Mikecan1978, if you read this, can you post the BBC-1 transcript to the DowningStreetMemo.com site?

by Rayne on Wed May 18th, 2005 at 08:13:45 PDT
< Parent | Reply to This | >
---------------------------------------------------
Don't Do It Yet (none / 0)

Please give me a break!!!! Give me a running start anyways. I am trying to do something. It has to do with the MSM. You can ask Congressman John Conyers. Please don't do that! Just let me post it again and NO LINKS!!!

Who controls the media, controls the fates.
by Apian on Wed May 18th, 2005 at 08:17:30 PDT
--------------------------------------------------

[Stand and Fight]

62. I've downloaded the text file. n/t

[Stand and Fight]

57. I wonder what sort of strategy Apian, the diarist, has in mind.

Seems like she wants to be able to break this story through the media blackout. I wish her the best of luck, but I think the jerks are on to her.

[Nothing Without Hope]

59. Yes, the jerks are onto her. But the story IS out now. We need to

download absolutely everything before more links disappear.

[chomskysright]

81. USE BBC link: its stable

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/programmes/panorama/transcripts/iraqtonyandthetruth.txt

[dogonarug]

46. kick

[Nothing Without Hope]

64. KOS DIARIST APPIAN PUTS IT UP FOR THE THIRD TIME - READ IT HERE:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/115427/494

BBC RELEASES MORE EVIDENCE ILLEGAL WAR IRAQ!

by Apian
Wed May 18th, 2005 at 08:54:27 PDT

The Downing Street minutes are only one of a set of documents leaked to the BBC, (British Broadcasting Corporation) in late March. A careful reading of the following will reveal seven different memorandum, and includes references with direct quotations taken from the Downing Street war council minutes. This is further documentary evidence that the Iraq war was planned well in advance of 2002, that intelligence was fixed, that the UK knowingly entered into an illegal war with Iraq, and that Washington pressured, or forced, Goldsmith to reverse his opinion that the Iraq war is illegal.

Please read carefully, and send this transcript to US news sources. The Washington Post, the New York Times, and the Chicago Tribune, in particular. There are seven different documents quoted here.

It is important when discussing or writing about these documents that you differentiate between memos, minute or minutes, and transcripts. Minutes carry a heavier legal weight than memos, which are a more informal record. Being accurate about documents now will save a lot of confusion down the line.
?RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION: BBC-1 DATE: 20:03:05

(Apian's note: The following contains live interviews and declassified memorandum from the British government, UN ambassadors, and US officials. As with the Downing Street minutes, which are included in context and directly quoted, the source is incontrovertable.)

(snip – the text begins here)

[ima_sinnic]

68. that comes up to a blank page

I don't get it?
and what do links have to do with it?

[Nothing Without Hope]

71. I don't understand - I just tried it again and it worked. Try this link:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/115427/494

[ima_sinnic]

74. blank. just the things on the sides, nothing down the middle.

[ima_sinnic]

75. actually, I did just find it at THIS link:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/115427/494

[Nothing Without Hope]

77. Excellent - sorry for the confusion, maybe I gave a link that worked

for me as a Kos member? Who knows. You've got a link that will work for everyone. Need to get it OUT THERE AND SEEN!

I'll change the link I gave to the one you found, just to be sure.

[understandinglife]

76. Link works for me, Hope. But, the site appears to being hammered...

....very slow and I've got major bandwidth.

The following matters:

"It is important when discussing or writing about these documents that you differentiate between memos, minute or minutes, and transcripts. Minutes carry a heavier legal weight than memos, which are a more informal record. Being accurate about documents now will save a lot of confusion down the line."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/115427/494

Thank you.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - Be it MNA Day 3 or 8 or 15 or .... the day will come when 10s of millions of Americans and others stop their typical activities for 24 hours and urge 10 times that many to join should another MNA Day be required. On that glorious day America will have begun truly to be "America," again.

[Nothing Without Hope]

84. The "shorter version," by another Kos diarist is also useful as is the

video.

I've linked to the video below. Here it is again:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8579.htm

Here's the "shorter version" of this story, which has links to the BBC report and the transcript:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/10829/7818

We probably still need to straighten out all the sources that Kos diarist Appian used in the post.

[McSpazitron]

91. Is there a link that doesn't go to dailykos?

Dailykos is blocked at work. It's listed as pornography. :eyes:

[redacted]

92. What? You've GOT to be kidding, right? n/t

[rocktivity]

96. Complain to the blockers!

On my previous job, MediaWhoresOnline was listed as "pornographic" and Bartcop as "underground news." I wrote in an e-mail explaining that both sites were current events-bsaed, and both were reclassified as news/editorial sites.

On my current job, the anti-streaming firewall was so high I couldn't download RealPlayer, QuickTime, iTunes, or any web page that used them. Thankfully, I found alternative players, but I still couldn't get to the Air America home page. Apparently someone else at the office likes AirAm, though--someone who had enough "muscle" to put the "squeeze" on the IT department. I can now get to the AirAm web page, and listen to it through my freshly downloaded RealPlayer! Now if only I could get Stephanie Miller...

:headbang:
rocknation

[Nothing Without Hope]

99. That's AMAZING. Here are non-Kos links plus the 2 main Kos ones from

this morning. Don't know yet if it's been updated since then.

(Maybe Daily Kos IS pornography to scum-sucking GOPs since they are so sensitive to the truth being spoken. :eyes: )

This is not a new story - Here are links to video, main story, timeline, associated with the BBC broadcast ", and a transcript of the broadcast. Kos diarist Appian may have added additional material. I have not gone through her entire extended post and checked it side by side with the BBC broadcast info - this needs to be done and any "extra" parts need to be accounted for and thoroughly documented.

This is the BBC broadcast story ("Iraq, Tony & the Truth: Timeline," which was last updated April 29, 2005):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/4336727.stm

Here is the video of the BBC broadcast:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8579.htm

Here is a timeline associated with the BBC broadcast:
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/4336727.stm

And here is a transcript of the BBC broadcast:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/programmes/panorama/transcripts/iraqtonyandthetruth.txt

And finally, here is the Kos diarist Appian's main link for this story from this morning:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/115427/494

And a "shortened version" that was posted by a different Kos diarist while the original post from Appian was down this morning (she deleted it twice for some reason - in the comments she mentioned that she was "being trolled.")
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/10829/7818

[lynch03]

87. Where is the link to the actual story???

Or did KOS just get an advanced copy of a soon to be BBC story???

[Nothing Without Hope]

98. This is not a new story - Here are links to video, main story, timeline,

associated with the BBC broadcast ", and a transcript of the broadcast. Kos diarist Appian may have added additional material. I have not gone through her entire extended post and checked it side by side with the BBC broadcast info - this needs to be done and any "extra" parts need to be accounted for and thoroughly documented.

This is the BBC broadcast story ("Iraq, Tony & the Truth: Timeline," which was last updated April 29, 2005):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/4336727.stm

Here is the video of the BBC broadcast:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8579.htm

Here is a timeline associated with the BBC broadcast:
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/4336727.stm

And here is a transcript of the BBC broadcast:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/programmes/panorama/transcripts/iraqtonyandthetruth.txt

And finally, here is the Kos diarist Appian's main link for this story from this morning:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/115427/494

And a "shortened version" that was posted by a different Kos diarist while the original post from Appian was down this morning (she deleted it twice for some reason - in the comments she mentioned that she was "being trolled.")
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/10829/7818

[jojo54]

78. I pulled it up and emailed it to myself

How about if one of us who has the text, start a new thread with the text in place???

[Nothing Without Hope]

80. Here is a link to the VIDEO of that BBC program:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8579.htm

[Nothing Without Hope]

82. Note the points in this comment to the Kos post - they're true

and we have to take them into account when disseminating this. (Note that I gave this link to the video in my previous post on this thread - this is where I found it):

LINK TO THE VIDEO!!! (none / 0)
(http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8579.htm)
VIDEO of "Iraq Tony, and The Truth" the March 20th episode of Panorama a BBC programme.

my comment got deleted, annoying. and i seem to have wasted a 'recommend'. won't do that again. i will say this tho:

if the diarist wants this information to be disseminated beyond dkos :

1. stop deleting the diary.
its tough to send a link to something that no longer exists. happened to me twice. i looked kinda dumb.

2. don't bury the link to the source.
citations = evidence = credibility. if no one will actually make it to the link, it might as well not be there at all.

3. graphic design and layout are incredibly important.
you have to make the target want to read. if you care about disseminating you have to make it as easy as possible to read. summarize in the most succint and compelling way possible and provide links to the video and transcript.
this layout is confusing and tiring. this layout doesn't provide context, or tell me who the words belong to. and since its a transcript of a tv show it wasn't intended to. why do you think all the big print outlets pay for that cog sci eye-movement tracking-camera research? it works. it matters.

by mbc on Wed May 18th, 2005 at 10:54:49 PDT

[chomskysright]

83. telltale insightment by Ware who IS? SOMEONE KNOW?

WARE: But Mr Blair had a problem. While troops were gearing up for war, Foreign Office lawyers said the new UN resolution 1441 on its own did not make war lawful. The Security Council would have to vote for a second resolution explicitly authorising war. But the Foreign Secretary thought a second resolution was not essential. Essential or not, the Prime Minister was desperate to get one, otherwise it would be difficult to carry the country or Labour MPs to keep to his commitment to President Bush. But without American diplomatic muscle he hadn't a hope of securing a second resolution.

[understandinglife]

86. John Ware info -- BBC Panorama Reporter

John Ware joined the Panorama team as a reporter in 1986. He began his journalistic career as a reporter on the Droitwich Guardian, before moving to the Worcester Evening News.

He worked for The Sun in Belfast from 1974 to 1977 before becoming a researcher on World in Action. He was promoted to producer on the programme in 1981, leaving five years later to join the BBC.

More at the link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/reporters/431061.stm

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[understandinglife]

89. Check this portion of the Ware transcript, at the end, re: Blix

18 March 2003 Blair before Parliament

BLAIR: We are asked now, seriously, to accept that in the last few years, contrary to all history, contrary to all intelligence, he decided unilaterally to destroy these weapons. I say such a claim is palpably absurd.

MEMBERS: Here here.

Ware asks Blix

WARE: Was it palpably absurd?

BLIX: No, it was not, and the inspectors had not really asserted that these things existed. They had calculated material balances and I said here lots of things unaccounted for, and it wasn't absurd that they had destroyed it.

Blair statement 20 March 2003

BLAIR: So our choice is clear. Back down and leave Saddam hugely strengthened, or proceed to disarm him by force. Retreat might give us a moment of respite, but years of repentance at our weakness would I believe follow.

Ware concludes with

WARE: The search for weapons of mass destruction has been abandoned. No WMD has been found. About half of MI6's main sources that were used to build up the Iraq dossier have been withdrawn as unreliable. No.10 has told Panorama the Prime Minister has nothing to add to the facts and findings of the four inquiries that have already been held. But there is one issue that none of these inquiries has focused on, the evolution of Mr Blair's Iraq policy, what he said in public, what he knew in private and whether he can reconcile the two.

Link to transcript:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/programmes/panorama/transcripts/iraqtonyandthetruth.txt

Lies kill and Blair's lies along with Bu$h's lies have killed more than we know.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - STOP THE ATROCITIES; INDICT AND PROSECUTE BU$H, BLAIR AND ALL THE OTHER WAR CRIMINALS

[darkism]

85. no time to read now but kicking for later

:kick:

[robertpaulsen]

88. Kicked, bookmarked, recommended!

Thanks shraby!

:kick:

[Generator]

90. Fave quotes here:

ROBIN COOK MP

Foreign Secretary 1997-2001
Leader of the House 2001-2003

It's perfectly plain from the events that Tony Blair probably committed himself to an invasion back in spring of 2002, he could never openly admit to that, he could never be frank that his main motivation was to demonstrate Britain was the closest ally to a republican President of the United States.


JOHN BOLTON

United States Under Secretary of State
Let there be no mistake, our policy insists on regime change in Baghdad. We are content that at the appropriate moment we will have the requisite degree of international support.
But if you don't have it, and all the indications are that at the moment you wont, then what?

BOLTON: We will have it Mr Humphries


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/18/115427/494


Everything they've ever told us is LIES. If this administration doesn't come out as the worst most evil rotten lying bastards ever then history has been hijacked.

[redacted]

93. KICK and link to must-see BBC Panorama video again:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8579.htm

Downloadable to disk. Encoded as RealPlayer 8, 80 k/sec, 15 frames/sec, music high-response stereo.

[In Truth We Trust]

95. Impeachment and Paper ballots and hand counts NOW!!!

[slay]

100. YES!!!

Think BushCo and the Neocons would just give up on their big Iraq plan just cause there was a silly little thing like an election involving John Kerry in the way? HA! We all know it happened even if the MSM won't talk about it or investigate it - STOLEN ELECTION 2004. It's time that we the people take back our government from these greedy liars, thieves, and murderers.

[Dark]

97. Great. More good news. . .n/t

[redacted]

101. prime time KICK

[chalky]

102. Does anyone know what all those link problems were about?

Why did she keep deleting the diary? What was going on with the trolls?

It was all too cloak and dagger, and I still won't feel comfortable with spreading all this until there's a rational, straightforward explanation of her strategy and about what went on earlier.

[Nothing Without Hope]

103. She took it down twice herself "because she was being trolled"

You're right - very cloak-and-dagger. She also was reluctant to cite all the links she used - again, some kind of cloak-and-dagger reason. Much of the info came from a BBC program and its associated online documentation - a timeline, a transcript and a story. The VIDEO of the broadcast is also available. (I've linked to all these elsewhere in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3678659&mesg_id=3683059)

Apparently there are also other online sources, which the respondents in the Kos thread (the third time the Apian diary was put up - it's still there) discuss. They can be googled.

I have to say, I think the diarist did not handle this well at all. However, the BBC info should be OK to spread and the other sources may be as well - I haven't assembled those, let alone looked at them. Many times today the diarist said "give me 24 hours" - maybe she will post more links then.

Bizarre, but the BBC material at least should be fine.

[chalky]

104. Thanks. I'll bypass the DKos link and spread that BBC link far and wide!

eom

[dogonarug]

106. kick

[ima_sinnic]

105. she sounds like a twit--she was "offended" by comments

--it became more about HER than the material she was presenting. She deleted the diaries twice because she didn't like somebody's comments--and they weren't even freeper comments. Unknown numbers of people had sent links in e-mails to her first, and then second diary, so ended up looking like idiots, sending a link to a blank page. Then she went off on this big game about "no links"--send it around to the media with no links, essentially to "punish" them for not disseminating it themselves--as though a post on a forum at dKos is going to be credible in and of itself--and had actually posted the story with no link to the source, until other posters shamed her in to posting it. screw her, I lost interest in her dumb game.

[Nothing Without Hope]

108. Yes, that's the way it looked to me. NONE of the non-Kos links I cite

for this story came directly from her:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3678659&mesg_id=3683059

I believe that there is additional information in other online articles - this was mentioned by several Kos respondents. There was a comment by Apian that one of these could be googled and a respondent said they had done that. I have not gone through and tried to sort out what other article(s) were used. I hope that tomorrow additional links will be posted if they are important.

[redacted]

109. KICK. Any updates?