A couple of questions to those who say that we should stay in Iraq ....

[trumad]

Several moths ago there was a pretty big debate here at DU between the "Get out Now" DUers and the Duers who thought that it would be a big mistake to pack up and leave.

A couple of questions:

Has your mind changed since then?

If not, will it ever.... say next year if the situation is just as bad as today...or maybe 2 years if the situation is just as bad as today...or maybe 5 years if the situation is just as bad as today?

[G2099]

1. I say, "Get out NOW!!"

Just like we walked the hell in, we should just do an about face and walk the hell out, get on the ships and be home. End of story; end of subject . . . well not really . . .

[mopaul]

2. i'm resolute

should never have been there, should have left yesterday.

all those who have died on both sides have died in vain.

leave now, swallow our idiotic pride

[mopaul]

13. war kick

[iceman_419]

3. This administration has put us in deep sh*t

You are right to ask these questions. While I think we should bring all the troops home, I understand what will happen if they are taken out now. The country is so destabilized that if we pulled out now, the Sunni's and extremists would overrun the Shia government and all hell would probably break loose. Probably worse than what is happening now. If we could pull out our troops while at the same time put some sort of international police or security force inside then I would be all for a pull out today. But since we pissed off the international community we will soon be in Iraq by ourselves. NATO or UN Peace Keapers need to be used, as our solderis are not used to this kind of environment. They are trained to kill, not destroy, kill, rebuild, and secure. That takes time, money, and a whole different set of people. I think our troops won't be out of there for another 5-7 years. That is how long insurgencies tend to last, and this one has no sign of dying out.

[bpilgrim]

4. all hell has broken out, so i find that as a very lame excuse to stay

especially when it is due to our very PRESENCE.

peace

[trumad]

7. Fine

But what if the same shit is happening a year from now?

[ugarte]

5. To say we should stay is to imply things will get better

It's like being in a hopeless relationship or waiting to go to the dentist. The pain ain't gonna go away. Just get it over with.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

6. The problem for me...

My issue with this debate is that the only real *good* solution (i.e. staying there and doing things properly) isn't possible because Bush is a goddamn idiot. Any reasonable person would have put the reconstruction efforts in the hands of Iraqis, not fat pig idiots at Halliburton. Any reasonable person would not have disbanded the Iraqi army. These people will never get this stuff right, and they will just continue to mess things up.

[Dogmudgeon]

8. Iraq is a BANCFU*

* That's a Bush Administration Neo-Conservative F**k-Up.

What can you do?

I'd never suggest a quickie bug-out because such military retreats invite a world of trouble and death, but it seems that this BANCFU is doing just that. It's also having the notable effect of driving a HUGE number of our GIs bugfuck. (Do they still use the term "dinky-dow" in the active-duty service?)

To paraphrase Tricky Dick, it's time for some "Humiliating Defeat With Honor".

--p!

[newportdadde]

9. Its a mess I'm not sure what we should do there.

At this point I think the RW almost wishes a Democrat would win so he could withdraw the troops and take all the heat that we are unamerican and not supportive.

[kentuck]

10. It's Newsweek's fault...

They have turned the entire Muslim world against us...

[IrateCitizen]

11. The military is good for two things -- killing people and breaking shit.

That being the case, the longer we stay the worse things will get. And please note I say this as someone who actually served in the military for eight years as an Army Reserve officer. The US military is NOT built for peacekeeping operations, and expecting it to perform well in a situation completely contrary to all US military doctrine is a fool's errand.

US troops are the CAUSE of the violence now permeating throughout Iraq. How anyone can honestly hope things will get BETTER if they stay is completely beyond me. Only one thing will happen as US troops remain -- the violence in Iraq will escalate as power in Iraqi society concentrates in the hands of its most reactionary elements.

For those that think we can't leave now, I tell you that things will only get WORSE the longer we stay.

[DinahMoeHum]

12. If we leave, we've "eaten it". If we stay, we're f**ked.

There's no nice way to say it.

I was one who said that the presense of our troops there was a major cause of the insurgency, and I curse Bush & Co. for putting us in this situation.

BTW, not having seen any video of Howard Dean's speech in which he wished Bush "incredible success", I can only guess that he was being sarcastic about it. The word "incredible" had me wondering.


:nuke: