Who're the most LOYAL and to whom?

[TahitiNut]

We hear a lot about 'loyalty' these days and it causes me to dip into my KSOTO (keen sense of the obvious) repository and question the demonstration of 'loyalty' by our elected representatives. It seems to me that this could actually be objectively ascertained by a review of Congressional votes over the last 17 years ... it we actually had an honest media in this country. Lacking that, how say you?

[G_j]

1. other

most Ds & Rs are above all loyal to the mighty dollar.
We certainly need major election reform.
Maine has come a long way towards clean elections, if only others would follow.

[TahitiNut]

3. The dollar doesn't seem to be doing so well.

Perhaps that 'loyalty' is to their own wallets and accounts, rather than to the dollar. No?
If so, I'd argue that it's not 'loyalty' per se, and is self-interest instead. Thus, it'd not be relevant to this poll on 'loyalty.'

[G_j]

4. I understand your question

better on retrospect. I'd say then that Rs are most loyal to their leaders.
Interesting though, Delay and even Frist may be straining and stretching that. I wonder if there will come a breaking point. I think some of Republican "loyalty" stems from fear of retribution.

[TahitiNut]

2. I guess someone doesn't remember 1993-2001.

:shrug: The Memory Hole in action.

[BobRossi]

5. re: Who is most loyal

One thing about the GOP, they stand with their leaders right or wrong. They don't waver, they don't blink.
I was completely discussed by some Democrats during the Clinton/Lewinski joke. They quickly turned coat and sided with Clinton's accusers.
We Democrats would be wise to learn from the tactics of the refucklikins: Never, never, never, never, never break ranks.
We must also rid our party of the Zell Millers and Joe Liebermans. There is absolutely no place for detractors posing as Democrats. We must stand firmly behind the Kennedy’s, Boxers, Waxmans, and Byrds in our party.
Whenever we get some repuke on the ropes we must step on his throat, rip his heart out, and send a message that Democrats are nothing to piss off!
Keep the pressure up on Frist, Delay, and the rest of the scum. Write letters to editors, ask those that you know that voted for shrub if he is doing what they expected, ask them if they are comfortable with their party dismantling the Constitution and freedoms our fore fathers died for.

"I love God, but his fan club is freekin meshuggeneh!."

[TahitiNut]

6. I'm not inclined to adopt the lowest standard of conduct.

That's what makes me more of a deontologist than a utilitarian. :shrug:
It's also part of what makes me an anti-partisan (liberal) Independent.

[Psephos]

7. They do waver sometimes

They did not unite behind Trent Lott, for example. Arlen Specter had serious trouble recently over the Judiciary Committee chairmanship.

Generally, repugs are very loyal to their leaders, but that loyalty can drop considerably if a leader violates repug principles.

They have their own Zell Millers and Joe Liebermans, too. McCain and Chafee are good examples.

The idea that we must "rid our party of the Zell Millers and Joe Liebermans" sounds a lot like "we must cleanse the Party of kulaks and decadent bourgeousie." In other words, like a purity purge. Repugs will laugh in their beers as we form up the circular firing squad. Lieberman and Miller serve a useful purpose, btw. They help us keep our own ideas clear and our ability to counterargue honed. I have no interest in a "purified" party that brooks no dissent. There is strength in diversity, right?

One last thing. This "step on his throat, rip his heart out" approach to politics is classic weak talk. Reminds me of what the slackers used to say in high school about their tormentors.

I don't want to rip any repugs' heads off their necks and piss down their throats, or whatever. I would FAR rather recruit them to a more progressive perspective. Some of them will respond, enough to give us an electoral majority, which is the name of the game.

I want strength in our party. I want a clear message, a vision, and less pie throwing. We have better ideas, I wish we'd act like it.

Peace.