DU Project: Why are these bases (red states) being closed? Please help:

[jazzjunkysue]

Ok. I went through the base closing list and found most are for control of the votes in the senate for the Bolton nomination and all the other sick bills getting put up soon. That's obvious. They're either big democrats or moderate republicans.

However, I can't figure out why these 8 red states are being targeted. Can all of you from these states help figure this out? Are these people out of favor or threatening any future votes? Please report from your state:

Alabama: Sessions, Jeff- (R - AL) Shelby, Richard- (R - AL)
Georgia: Chambliss, Saxby- (R - GA) Isakson, Johnny- (R - GA)
Kentucky: Bunning, Jim- (R - KY) McConnell, Mitch- (R - KY)
Missouri Bond, Christopher- (R - MO) Talent, James- (R - MO)
New Hampshire: Gregg, Judd- (R - NH) Sununu, John
North Carolina: Burr, Richard- (R - NC) Dole, Elizabeth- (R - NC)
Oklahoma: Coburn, Tom- (R - OK) Inhofe, James- (R - OK)
Texas: Cornyn, John- (R - TX) Hutchison, Kay- (R - TX)


All the other states make sense: They're either democrats or the moderate republicans not toeing the party line on Social Security and Bolton, and probably lots of other votes. So, I've already looked into all of the other base closings, and they help force Bush's bills through. But the bases above look like their senators are already in the party pocket. Can anyone explain? Let's collect the information here. Thanks!

[whistle]

1. Bush administration wants power

[KaliTracy]

2. i thought it interesting though that Ohio didn't get targeted -- given

Vonavich's initial "wait" to vote, and incredible speech yesterday. Not many here though -- employ about 38,000, though I don't know what a "typical" number is, either...


Guess "Ohio's Invisible grassroots movement" to give * a win was more important than Vonavich standing up to his convictions.

http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=3339141 (list of bases in Ohio)

[jazzjunkysue]

5. Not true. Ohio is getting clobbered:

Ohio George V. Voinovich of Ohio:
Army National Guard Reserve Center, Mansfield
Army National Guard Reserve Center, Westerville
Defense Finance and Accounting Service, Dayton
Mansfield Lahm Municipal Airport Air Guard Station
Navy-Marine Corps Reserve Center, Akron
Navy-Marine Corps Reserve Center, Cleveland
Parrott U.S. Army Reserve Center, Kenton
U.S. Army Reserve Center, Whitehall

[KaliTracy]

6. Oh, my bad -- Ohio wasn't listed in the alphabetical list I saw this morni

morning.... hmmm....

[MADem]

11. OHIO ends up with a NET JOB GAIN

Check the state by state tallies, Ohio ends up with 241 MORE jobs than they had before due to realignment. They are unloading crappy old real estate (which cities and towns can use as they see fit, AND get gov't help in converting them) and consolidating, and they are giving a few hundred more paychecks to go along with it.

[FreedomAngel82]

44. Tennessee gets jobs too

Check out this article: http://chattanoogan.com/articles/article_66864.asp

According to this report Snip:< Military closings announced Friday by the Department of Defense include a $71 million annual blow to Nashville, Maj. Gen. Gus Hargett, Tennessee adjutant general, said in a speech in Chattanooga.

Gen. Hargett said the list includes pulling the 118th Airlift Wing out of Nashville and moving its eight C130s from Tennessee. He said four would go to Kentucky and four to Illinois.

Gen. Hargett said the unit brings a $71 million economic impact to Nashville.

And he said a $26 million hangar has just been built at the facility and not yet opened.

But he said Tennessee will gain overall from the military changes, adding 1,800 Department of Defense jobs.>

Which is weird because we have a democratic governor but it is home to Frist.

[slaveplanet]

50. It's more subtle

than that....they targeted Blue areas of Ohio and are moving some of those operations to Red places like Columbus. Thus the deceptive Net gain...the crappy real estate angle is poppycock.

[MADem]

54. It may be for OHIO, but it isn't for Florida or NC

...who are also taking "hits" but GAINING a TRUCKLOAD of waterfront property, which is coveted. Real estate IS a factor in this entire equation. Some states will do better with their returned property than others. Some will do better with massive job increases.

This IS a shell game, and when you look at the big picture, blue states are getting seriously hosed, and red states are making out. That is the only point I am really trying to make, here.

I agree that a few hundred jobs will not cure Ohio, and that Ohio has not been helped by Round 1.

[salinen]

3. These bases will suddenly

remain open! It will be a coincidence that it will come right before the "06 election.

[punpirate]

4. Have another look at the total displacements...

... rather than the number of closings.

Many of those cited for closure are smaller guard and reserve bases. Texas, for example, has many fairly small closures (well, Brooks City Base is a fairly large whack), but has a net increase of about 6,000 troops/civilians. New Hampshire's loss is pretty small. Oklahoma has a net increase of several thousand people.

Missouri is one of the oddball losers, all around, and is a bit difficult to explain.

Go back through the listing, though, and have a look at which states get a net increase.

Cheers.

[jazzjunkysue]

7. Right. Olberman just showed a map of red/blue states and their loss

or gain, and said : "Take a look at this and arrive at your own conclusions."

I don't have all the info about gains and numbers, that's why I started this thread.

[Horse with no Name]

21. I hope this helps

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3650522&mesg_id=3650522&page=

[jazzjunkysue]

24. Thanks. 2 more down. That leaves Kentucky and Missouri

Alabama +2664, Georgia +7423,

That leaves Kentucky (-3658) and Missouri--(3679)

[KamaAina]

30. New Hampshire's loss may be pretty small, but...

Maine's is enormous, and the bulk of it comes in Kittery, at...

...the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard.

The island on which it's located happens to be on the Maine side of the river, but it's always been considered part of the New Hampshire Seacoast city. The Seacoast, not entirely surprisingly, is among the bluest areas in what has become a tight swing state recently.

[punpirate]

31. Oh, I agree...

... but Maine wasn't mentioned in the original post.

Cheers.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

36. Yeah.. and the job market in Maine has always been kind of

rough. That's the major reason why I'm not living there now. It's sad that most of the kids that grow up in Maine have to move out of state to get a decent job.

[MADem]

8. The closure of Portsmouth says more about the future of the Navy

...than anything else. Smaller, lighter craft, floating bases, kiss the behemoths goodbye. You don't need a massive shipyard to make a smaller ship, and the going rate for repairs often makes going overseas for refits cheaper. So much for buy America!

Texas is going to make out like a bandit overall. Yes, bases are being realigned and closed, but they are going to end up with over SIX THOUSAND more jobs than they have now (6150, to be precise). Georgia gains 7,423 jobs. Kentucky IS getting shafted, but I don't know much about the value of the property--and the potential civilian uses, which could be a boon for the state...I really don't know enough about the area to comment. Same with North Carolina, but they could want that lovely seaside property to develop for tourism.

You need to spend some time looking at the state by state numbers...BASES alone aren't the whole story. JOBS play a big part in the overall health of a state. Here's the breakdown, requires PDF:

http://www.defenselink.mil/brac/pdf/Appendix_C_FinalUpdated.pdf

[ultraist]

9. They are only closing some small reserve offices in NC

I think they are adding staff to the big bases like Ft. Bragg. NC really isn't getting hit with cuts.

[HockeyMom]

13. Groton and Portsmouth are Huge

MAJOR impact on economy.

[ultraist]

20. Groton and Portsmouth?

NC?

[HockeyMom]

25. New Hampshire

[delete_bush]

45. I think it's the Electric Boat Corp in Groton CT

and Portsmouth naval Shipyard in Kittery, Maine (on the NH border).

I heard Holy Joe bitching about Groton on the radio earlier today. I guess Joe just didn't pucker up enough.

[K-W]

57. It is the Sub Base in Groton, CT that will be closed.

Electric Boat is a corporation that has a shipyard in groton and has long since ceased to be a major employer in the area because of defense spending. Luckily for the region, the rise of Pfizer (also in Groton) and the Indian Casino's in neighboring towns more than made up for the job losses.

The casinos are still growing, so hopefully the economic hit to the region wont be horrible.

[MaineDem]

53. Actually, the Porstmouth shipyard is in Maine

But many of the employees live in neighboring NH.

[pk_du]

10. Two points worth noting

1. As you say toward the end in the last paragraph..these states are "safe" ( they'll trade a few bases for Anti-Gay marriage bill evry time).

2. Look at the net civilian jobs being put into those states too...as we know , this admin doesnt give a gnats ball for the average member of the military BUT to be able to point to a couple thousand new jobs in a given district makes their nipples hard.

[Dover]

12. Well, Texas will purportedly get 9000 military jobs out of the deal.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3180699

Rummy may be dreaming ultimately of small mobile facilities and privatization of our military.
That's my guess.

[brettdale]

14. Are the people who work on these bases being told to go to Iraq?

Are the people who work on these bases being told that they have to go to Iraq now?

[Dover]

15. Check out the DOD website

http://www.defenselink.mil/brac/

[Bonhomme Richard]

16. The "Civil War" is still being fought my friends.............

and us Yankees are losing.

[jazzjunkysue]

17. Ok. Thanks. So, we're down to explaining these:

Alabama: Sessions, Jeff- (R - AL) Shelby, Richard- (R - AL)
Georgia: Chambliss, Saxby- (R - GA) Isakson, Johnny- (R - GA)
Kentucky: Bunning, Jim- (R - KY) McConnell, Mitch- (R - KY)
Missouri: Bond, Christopher- (R - MO) Talent, James- (R - MO)

Anyone got the dirt on these? Everything else is an obvious political move to punish the dems, and the independent republicans, and control every vote.

[Horse with no Name]

22. Chances are they will be traded off

for refineries.

[Bonhomme Richard]

18. Another thought..

They are talking about saving 60 plus billion dollars over 20 years but just passed a bill spending 82 billion dollars on Iraq this year. Is that ironic or what?

[L-Studio]

19. And the winners are: Fort Bliss and Fort Sam Houston

Both are in Texas - Bliss is in El Paso - Sam Houston is in San Antonio.
Coincidences?
Both cities are very Hispanic, and thus traditionally Democratic, but up for grabs in '06, and in a post Bush future.
San Antonio is also the home of ClearChannel (the media monopoly founded by the guy who bought the Texas Rangers from Bush, at a premium). So they wouldn't want to bite the hand that installed him.

Rep. Reyes (D) of El Paso, also voted for the bankruptcy bill that would further indenture the working poor of his district to the credit card co.s... and El Paso has THE highest rate of poverty of any of the large cities of Texas.
Is saving Ft, Bliss the quid pro quo? you won't hear any discussion in the El Paso Times (a Gannet rag). Nor on any of the media in El Paso.

Maybe there should be a new subcategory of Josh Marshall's 'Faint-Hearted Faction'... Democrats who sell out the party, and the nation in order that their district can prosper.

Or maybe it's a defensive move to keep Senator Hutchinson calmed down, since she can't stand the theo-cons, but will need them if she runs for Governor.

Any way you slice it, Texas is, again, getting favorable treatment.

[Horse with no Name]

23. or

to get her to withdraw her bid for governor.
They do NOT want her to challenge Gov. Goodhair.

[jazzjunkysue]

26. Great information. Thanks!

So, excpet for 2 states, this entire move is unvarnished, thinly veiled punishment/reward/control a la Rove, a.k.a. "How Neocons Have Done Things All Over The World, And Now It's Our Turn."

Put a neocon in control, and then watch the raping and pillaging.

[newyawker99]

52. Hi L-Studio!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[minerva50]

27. give me a break

How about the biggest winner, Maryland, are they trying to reward a blue state? Can you possibly conceive that other factors besides politics were drivers?

[QC]

28. I was thinking the same thing.

It's possible--though cynicism is always warranted in these times--that the commission is working the way it's supposed to.

[Horse with no Name]

29. or very possible that there are defense contracts to be had

in Maryland for * benefactors? Perhaps for favors rendered?

"Federal contracts in Maryland aerospace and defense related industries are up to $9 billion annually. With two of the world’s largest defense contractors—Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman—key companies also include AAI Corporation, Alcore, British Aerospace, Litton, Middle River Aircraft Systems, Orbital Sciences, Racal Avionics, Raytheon, and SAIC. In addition, Maryland boasts some of the nation’s most sophisticated air and space facilities, including the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Patuxent Naval Air Warfare Center, U.S. Satellite Applications Laboratory, U.S. Satellite Research Laboratory, and the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory."

http://www.choosemaryland.org/techcareers/WORK/aerospace.asp

Military contracts 2004: $11.9 billion
Campaign contributions in 2004: $1.68 million (defense related)
$1.77 million (total)


World: Making Money on Terrorism
by William Hartung, Nation
February 23, 2004
We all know that Halliburton is raking in billions from the Bush Administration's occupation and rebuilding of Iraq. But in the long run, the biggest beneficiaries of the Administration's "war on terror" may be the "destroyers," not the rebuilders. The nation's "Big Three" weapons makers--Lockheed Martin, Boeing and Northrop Grumman--are cashing in on the Bush policies of regime change abroad and surveillance at home.

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=11

[minerva50]

32. And closing Pascagoula

The apple of Trent Lott's eye?

[Horse with no Name]

34. Trent Lott has long since fallen out of good graces

with this White House. Not a good example.

[jazzjunkysue]

35. Yet the timing is undeniable: Squash all dem resistance to

the fillibuster, and all further resistance on everything ends. Total oppression. That's always been the unipolarist's goal. Why not start at home, since all their foreign policies have failed.

I swear, the Chimperor's only motive in his entire life has been to have one success story to wave in front of his daddy.

His Daddy is still waiting.

[me b zola]

40. See post # 7...it's about the OVERALL gain/loss

Olberman had all of the states gains/losses & he then put it on the "blue/red" map. The conclusion is overwhelming.

[SF Bay Area Dem]

33. As usual California gets their asses kicked in this...

California in the past has taken the main brunt of these cuts. This time is no different. Literally the last installation in the greater Bay Area is Travis AFB. Everything else... gone. Today Camp Parks and the Concord Naval Weapons Station... totally re-aligned. The only good thing out of this is the bay area is able to absorb the cuts easier because of its status as a leaders in technology, bio-science, pharmaceuticals and also a major center for finance... other areas like Cannon AFB in rural New Mexico... is totally screwed!

[Arwennick]

37. Could be that........

its all about pressure on the Judicial nomination votes.A lot of those Bases are home to moderates of the both partys.It could be trade off time or blackmail if you may.

[althecat]

38. thanks Jazz this is a great thread - reccommended

[IndianaGreen]

39. The military is not in the business of providing employment for cities

If there is a valid criticism that can be leveled at Rumsfeld's BRAC list is that it did not go far enough in closing of military installations made obsolete by the end of the Cold War. We can close half of all the military bases and activities in the country and still have more than enough for the challenges the military faces in a post-9/11 world. Just ask yourselves this: do we need all those depots? Do we need "boomers" to protect us from Al-Qaeda? Why do we have B-1 bombers at all?

While we are at it, let's implement Dennis Kucinich's Department of Peace for it will do more to protect us than Rumsfeld's War Department.

[Horse with no Name]

41. While that is true

What about the concessions these cities and states have made for the military?

[IndianaGreen]

47. Consider the environmental mess the military leaves behind

Sleeping with the military industrial complex carries consequences with it. There was a recent article about the number of superfund sites at former military installations, and today NBS News carried a story about the current environmental clean up at Alameda in the Bay area.

[althecat]

42. Agreed entirely... but the fact that pork is so tied to politics is...

.. destructive and disempowering.

Plus if you look closely at what this is likely to result in it is the unjust enrichment of a bunch of rich criminals at the expense of honest working folk who have signed on to defend their country - and that too is wrong.

[izzybeans]

43. I think what will be most interesting is to see who they set up

to successfully renegotiation these closings. So you'll see Jeff Sessions and John Cornyn win back their bases. Blue staters, well, we will see. Well find out how much of a wedge issue they are trying to make it at that point.

Having info. in the ready just in case will be very important.

[TreasonousBastard]

46. Could it be that...

many of these closings and realignments have nothing whatsoever to do with politcs and are being suggested simply because they make sense?

Here in NJ, Picatinny is probably going to stay open because it's a major weapons development lab. On the other hand, Ft. Monmouth has been steadily declining since it lost the Signal Corps and the Chaplain's school over the years. It should, and probably will be, closed becaue it's now barely holding on as a research center for night vision and some other stuff. Stuff which could very easiy be done elsewhere without having to support an entire installation built for much more than that.

Bayonne and Earle have their own issues with the Navy, and Wright and Dix theirs. Wright and Dix look like they'll be expanded.

We've got a platoon of congresscritters already hitting the stump about how the Republic will fall and we'll see the end of civilization as we know it if Monmouth closes, and every other state has their own crusaders out there going to war with the Pentagon. That's where the politics comes in.

[RussBLib]

48. EVERYthing is political with Bush

They're going to use this for leveraging votes, pure and simple.

I mean, it's a nice thought: that there are no ulterior motives here. But, hey, come on!

[TreasonousBastard]

49. Every base closing in history had political overtones...

and Congress is every bit as adept at squeezing a President as the President is at squeezing Congress. No matter who the President is.

My only point is that trying to analyze this list, which is sure to change drastically, in political terms is silly and useless. I know about the Joisey planned changes, and I see very little political in there. The only signifant loss we'll have is Monmouth, and they've been slowly shutting that place down for 30 years.

I don't doubt that it's the same in other areas, and I don't doubt some political vigorish was tried in still others.

But, we are overdue for some serious base closings, and somebody's going to get hit.

[fishwax]

51. OKlahoma: no major closings

I'm not sure why you listed OK and Coburn/Inhofe, but as far as I know, none of the 5 major bases in OK will be closed ...

[sweetheart]

55. Base closings as punishment.. or blessing?

This rather follows the republican view of state welfare for their
base, and zero sum economics.

However, what if all the places where bases close wind up doing even
better in the aftermath, as the resources get better jobs and develop
a more diverse economy not based on state welfare.

To buy the frame of zero sum economics is to miss the blessing.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

56. someone disprove my logic please......

ok, i don't know how sound this theory is, so tell me why this idea is wrong:

we know the U.S. Military is short on recruits......
does closing these bases make more military personal available to be deployed?

a possible measure taken to avoid drafting new members?

any input would be greatly appreciated. thanks!