Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Have you ever been defrauded on EBAY?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:49 PM
Original message
Have you ever been defrauded on EBAY?
Edited on Thu May-12-05 01:56 PM by undeterred
Its only happened to me once, for around $35. I had been in contact with the seller a few times and he kept saying he would send the item and I never received it. By the time I looked into how to reverse a paypal payment it was past 30 days and there was nothing I could do. I filed a complaint on EBAY but nothing came of it.

However, within a few weeks he was kicked off EBAY because 3 out of 6 people he did business with gave a negative rating. I gave him a negative rating, (and he gave me one) and unfortunately couldn't do anything about it.

All in all I've had pretty good luck, but I'm really careful now about sellers with hardly any feedback.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Kellanved Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. I got bootlegs instead of the ordered original DVD set once.
Edited on Thu May-12-05 02:33 PM by Kellanved
Ebay didn't care about it, but the seller eventually gave in.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Same thing happened to me
I contacted the seller immediately, got serious attitude, and filed a complaint with PayPal.

I had my $$$ back in under a week.

You really have to check out the histories of the sellers, I've learned.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. I've been buying and selling
on Ebay for over a year and a half. I've sold over 300 items and bought over 50 and haven't had any real problems. Twice somebody tried to scam me on payment, but when I reported it, the scammers were removed. i've had one neutral rating from a customer who didn't read the item description and thought he was getting something else when I had clearly stated the poster was a reprint(rare poster, reprint almost as rare as original)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jojo54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. No, but I feel for ya.
Hubby and I don't do any transactions online, because the administration can't get their collective shit together and do something about all this fraud.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. A very similar story to what happened with me
The woman had excellent feedback, too. I was out about $60. Bummer. But I still bought a Kitchenaid mixer on Ebay a while back for almost $200. I got it, and it was a really good deal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. Not yet
It will probably happen eventually but I've always got what I ordered, although some people are slow to ship or overcharge fro shipping (which ticks me off.) I've never had a problem with purchases or swaps arranged on any internet site as a matter of fact. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. well lets see, got a widepath hoover steamcleaner that was in pieces
torn hoses cracked casing and the unit was shipped in an undamaged box, trader was "2girlstrading" they had thier account suspended, bought two porsche fenders from separate sellers, one came with dents in it, seller told me he had described it that way, unfortunately I purchased it outside of ebay , the other one was sent wrapped in bubble wrap and was bent like a pretzel when it arrived, got my money back on that one. Coworker bought a digital camera for $2600 but he went outside of ebay and never recieved the unit and never recovered his money, othe than those I've had many transactions work out fine.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Caoimhe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. I bought a poster once
One of those vintage travel posters for the National Parks. Or so I thought. The auction said it would be sent in a tube. It was sent in a manilla envelope with no cardboard to keep it stiff.. the whole thing was crumpled, it was an inket print (8.5x11) of the image. Like someone just found some clipart and printed it. I paid over $20 for this item. I was so mad. I went to leave negative feedback and the user was no longer an ebay member, so I couldn't. How's that for good service?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yes, but luckily for only $30
Edited on Thu May-12-05 01:56 PM by sabra
I and along many others were frauded by a group out of Germany selling discounted Berkinstock shoes...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
likesmountains 52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. I bought an expensive iron once..it was supposed to be brand new
in the box. It was brand new, but arrived with the inner box obviously smashed, and the iron leaked water the instant I filled it. I emailed the seller and he refunded my $$ without asking for me to ship the iron back. I think he knew it was smashed, but maybe just hoped it would still work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. Iron? What's that? *living happily in wrinkled clothes* :^P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Caoimhe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. A friend of mine
ordered a little 14 or 15" TV on ebay once. When the box arrived it was smashed up and taped in various places. He opened it and POURED the TV out. It was that busted up. The seller said it was just too bad since he hadn't bought insurance. Problem was the jerk put it in a cardboard box with no filler, it just banged around in there. Not sure how it worked out. Make sure you get insurance if it involves anything crunchable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. No
After hundreds of transactions, only once did I get close. The guy didn't send the stuff, and didn't send it, got kicked off ebay, etc...

then, six months later, the guy got his shit together and mailed the stuff with an effusive apology.

I love ebay.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. this will sound strange but the thing I have bought most often on EBAY
is orchids.

There is only one good sized grower near where I live, so I found that buying them on EBAY gives me all the options I could possibly want. (Orchids that grow well in south Florida or southern California don't necessarily like Wisconsin, however!) But I am buying from people who love orchids and know how to ship them properly. I've never had a single problem and even with shipping, its cheaper than the local grower.

For other things it seems like the EBAY stores are best. They've got a lot of feed back so you know what you're dealing with.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
44. wow, that's interesting!
I never thought of shopping for plants on eBay.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. I've bought a lot of seeds there too
and last year I bought a starter for a climbing rose plant. The rose seller, for example, just sells roses that she has raised herself, and she knows everything in the world about them and even publishes a news letter.

The orchid sellers, likewise, have been growing them for years and know everything about how to make them bloom. These are fantastic people to buy from because they take so much pride in what they sell, and it most often turns into a repeat buying arrangement where everybody is happy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. what would you say is the easiest and prettiest...
...orchid for a beginner as a houseplant? A phaleanopsis? (sp?)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. definitely a phalaenopsis
if you can get one in spike that is ready to bloom but hasn't bloomed yet, you will have a something beautiful to look at for months...

phragmipedium has fewer blossoms but they are easy to grow and the blooms last a long time also...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. I got a bunch of asparagus crowns on ebay back in February,
planted them according to the directions and saw nothing until a few days ago, now they're growing like...weeds? :D I've bought & sold several hundred things on ebay with only a couple of minimal problems (one is ongoing right now, never got an item but Paypal is going to refund my payment in 3 days) Just be cautious is the best advice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
12. My daughter paid for an item and never got it
Pay pal's opinion: Tough scoobies
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. I have had instances wherein either the weight of a piece of silver was
significantly overstated (2) and once when the seller claimed not to have received my money order, but a postal inquiry revealed it had long ago been cashed/deposited by someone in the same household with the same last name. One antique piece of silver was claimed to weight approximately three times its actual weight. After prolonged prodding, all were subsequently resolved, sometimes months later.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
16. sorry but i hate ebay! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. I've been using E-bay for about 6 years and only have had one
neutral type experience. Bought a book from a seller who had a 98% positive rating. And he didn't send the book...I got his email address and wrote a polite note to him. By this time, about 20 people had given him a negative rating and he no longer had anything for sale. He finally replied to my email and promised to send the book. I was the only one out of about 25 buyers' that got their item. He told me that he had gone on vacation and by the time he had gotten back, his rep had been ruined by all the negative feedback, so in anger, he didn't ship the merchandise. Whole thing took about 3 months and I eventually gave him positive feedback.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
windlight Donating Member (337 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. twice
Once I went thought the process with Ebay fraud and got my money back -$25 (out of $140 item) for ebay's research. and another time I paid paypal but it was for $15 so I didn't care either way...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
newportdadde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. Bought a Playstation 2 on a Buy it Now Auction for 200 bucks.
I should have known better, they were rare at the time and this person claimed to have a lot of like 500. I see lots like that in business a lot and didn't think it through as being bull.

Anyways about 2 hours after I paid, ebay sends out a notification that the auction had been ended and the user suspended. Luckily I paid through Paypal and it wasn't a balance transfer or bank transfer but Credit Card. I appealled and 2 weeks later they refunded my money.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
20. No - and I was a very active ebay buyer for a long period of time
I've been a ebay buyer since 1997 and had periods where I bought a lot. Whenever I need something I check ebay first to see if I can find a good buy before I go out and buy something new locally.

I've NEVER had a real problem with a seller. One item was very, very late - and I had, in fact, given up on it, but eventually it did arrive in good condition.

It's a good idea to check feedback and see what other buyers report as their experience.

I did have one negative experience - someone hijacked my id and defrauded a buyer by agreeing to selll something off-auction and not delivering. Fortunately I was immediately aware that something had happened, and alerted ebay. The only problem it caused me was my id being inactivated for a few days, no other problems.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
makhno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
21. Nah
The more expensive the item, the more important the feedback. I'd usually go with low feedback folks for items under $100. Anything over $500 and there better be a 99.9% history for similarly priced items to back it up, all coming from different buyers with solid feedback histories of their own. That's really the key to check - the seller's feedback along with the customers'.

I've found it works out fairly well over the years. But I'm sure I'm only saying this until I get ripped off.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
22. Once I paid..
....$350 for a piece of Amateur Radio equipment that turned out to have some major defects.

I was mondo pissed, I wrote a polite but firm letter to the seller telling him that I was not happy.

He promptly refunded my money, including shipping, and asked me to return the item.

That was as close to a problem as I've ever had on ebay, I've probably done about 50 transactions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
23. Yes.. seems to me my hubby bid on a load of Pokemon cards for our kids
that never materialized.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Danmel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
25. I had someone I don't know use my name to defraud others!
I have a very common name. In December, I received a call from someone in the Midwest who had successfully bid on a designer handbag for his wife for Christmas. He hadn't paid yet because he found it somewhat odd that the confirmation email he received told him to send the money to one address and that he would receive the bag from a different address. It instructed him specifically NOT to send any money to the shipping address.

The shipping address was my home, my phone number and her and my name!

Of course I had no merchandise to send him, much less a designer handbag (which is really not my style). After lots of wrangling, calls letters and the like, EBAY suspended her account. It turns out she had completed 7 transactions giving people my name, address and phone number to get the bags from!

EBAY sent these people emails telling them not to pay her or to suspend payment. I still haven't found a law enforcement authority willing to handle this. She apparently picked my name out of the phone book because she used my nickname, not my legal name which is on all official documents but my nickname is in the phone book.

Very weird indeed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KarenS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
26. Yes, but nothing big,,,,,
I buy and sell but never anything very expensive.

Once I paid for some rubber stamps and never received them ~ this seller eventually got booted.
Also I've had the high bidder not pay ~ I sell mostly handmade cards so I just relist them. (I do block non-paying bidders from ever bidding on one of my auctions again)

eBay is just like garage saling,,,, I think it's fun to look & occasionally purchase. I think most people are generally honest but there are a few jerks around.

I dunno, it's just something I like to do :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drmom Donating Member (450 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
27. I'll tell you a trick about leaving negativve feedback...
You can only leave feedback 90 days after the close of an auction. So, the couple of times that I've had a bad experience, I waited on the feedback until that 90th day...and then I leave it as close to the hour that the auction ended as possible. This makes it nearly impossible for the other person to respond by leaving you bad feedback too!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. thank you, thats a great idea
I have two negative feedbacks out of 150 in 4 years, and both were retaliatory. That really made me mad!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
29. yes, I'm pretty sure I was cheated
I'm a seller not a buyer. What happened was that I shipped a very nice item and the next day, after I shipped cross country, the lady complained that she had received the item and it was broken. The post office is fast but they're not THAT fast so I just don't believe she had the item in hand. However, she made all sorts of threats against me, and I didn't know what to do other than to refund her money. I'm sure when she received the item a few days later and saw the condition -- it was worth about $50 and she won it for about $20 -- then she REALLY felt good about cheating me because she got one hell of a steal.

I lost a lot of enthusiasm for selling there after that. I was trying to make room in my collection, and now I realize I should have just crowded it a little and kept the piece. I lost the money spent to ship the item and I lost the item in addition to the various Ebay fees -- and, worst of all, I was out a very nice item.

I probably would have regretted selling it anyway for the price it got in that auction but then to be cheated and threatened after giving someone an incredible bargain...it just broke my heart.




The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. That's so sad
I feel for you, I really do. People like that have no shame, no guilt.

I buy and sell on eBay - mostly buy. But, one thing I realized before I sold my first item was that whatever it was that I was putting up for auction had to have zero value to me - financially, emotionally, in any way. It had to be worthless to me, something that I might have donated to Goodwill or thrown away.

That's the only way, I figure, to avoid the kind of regret you have now. And then to have to endure a dishonest buyer! I am so sorry for you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
30. Only buy from users with a good rating and a sizable history.
Edited on Thu May-12-05 02:32 PM by onehandle
Sorry but this is a buyers best course of action on ebay. Seller info is there for a reason.

Buyers can be iffy too. Last month I sold a computer. The buyer said that they had to get the cash out of some kind of account. Took them 2 weeks to finally pay. They have some bad marks on their payment history, so I was lucky. You can have a bad time there on both sides.

I haven't been ripped off, yet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Shopaholic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Great advice
I've got close to 100 buys on Ebay and I've never had a problem so far, but I've always been very careful to check the user history and make sure they had a fair amount of prior transactions or I won't do business with them.

Also, read the item description very, very carefully. I like buying vintage clothing and accessories. I usually will not buy from sellers who have not posted several photos of the item in question or at the very least, a very clear close-up of the item.

Once I brought an out-of-print book and the seller accidentally sent me the wrong item. They were so sweet about it, they let me keep the book they had sent in error and then shipped out the correct item pronto.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. I did that and was still ripped off - see below.
eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
33. YES I HAVE!!
I bought a piece of jewelry, a present to myself after completing two cookbooks. I didn't like it and returned it and chose something else from the same seller that was less expensive. That piece was fine, and when I asked about a refund for the price difference, eBay had cancelled the seller's ID and store. This was a person who had a 100% approval rating with more than 500 ratings.

I emailed and emailed and emailed, and at first I got responses saying the refund was coming, but now, 2 months later, my emails are unanswered and I have not received the refund.

So, eBay would not help me because the account had been cancelled. I am out $100 and I'm simply furious at that seller AND at eBay for refusing to help me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
35. Yes, it's happened to me before...
At least three times if I remember correctly.

Once a T-shirt that I paid for and never received.

The second time it was an obscure horror VHS tape that I paid for and never got.

The third time it was another VHS tape.

It always sucks when that happens.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
36. Never -- and I've been buying & selling for six years
However, I am very, very careful about what I bid on and how I allow people to pay.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
devinsgram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
37. Yes and Ebay does nothing to help you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
38. After 7 years and about 200 transactions, no.
The key to doing business on eBay is to go thru one's feedback with a fine tooth comb (checking the feedback of those who left feedback for the buyer/seller you're dealing with to make sure no "shilling" is happening).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
39. i've made almost 300 purchases
i've never been burned, but i have been dissatisfied with maybe 5 purchases...mostly jewelry. you have to be really careful with jewelry on ebay. i only use a few reputable jewelry sellers now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wildeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
40. I have had mostly positive experience with ebay.
I only buy. Most recently, I bid on a piece of pottery that arrived broken. Was not properly packaged. I offered to take a pic of the damage and send it to the seller, but she refused and refunded my money, plus some. Granted, it was only $13, but still, really nice seller.

I almost never buy anything over $50. That is what I am comfortable losing. But like I said before, very few problems and over 100 transactions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lakeguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
41. only problems i have had are with deadbeat bidders
it really sucks when someone wins and refuses to pony up!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
42. The person never sent it - I filed a complaint and ebay did nothing
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
43. My laserdiscs arrived, but one was in worse condition than stated but both
were ultimately unplayable. :cry:

The people had very good ratings and lots of good comments and as laserdiscs can go bad over time, I wasn't really vindictive. My player might just be more sensitive too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC