Top 100 countries in the world to live - US no. 13 - Ireland no 1

[demo dutch]

It's an older piece but I wondered if anyone had seen it.

The world’s best country
The Economist - The World in 2005 print edition

snip
Where will be the best place to live in 2005? The World in 2005 turned to the Economist Intelligence Unit, which has devised a 2005 “quality of life” index for 111 countries. Result: Ireland comfortably tops the league. America, though the second-richest country (behind Luxembourg) in GDP per head, slips to 13th in quality of life. Britain languishes in 29th place.

Snip
It has long been accepted that material well-being alone does not adequately measure quality of life. Money matters, of course, but surveys suggest that over the decades big increases in income have translated into only a modest rise in satisfaction. Although rising incomes and expanded individual choice are highly valued, some of the factors associated with modernisation—such as the breakdown of traditional institutions and the erosion of family values—in part offset its positive impact.

http://www.economist.com/theworldin/international/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3372495&d=2005

Also discussed in
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4020523.stm

[Celeborn Skywalker]

1. I wonder why Britain's so low? (nt)

[demo dutch]

2. The BBC piece quotes the following on that...

"The researchers said although the UK achieved high income per head, it had high levels of social and family breakdown."

[Terran]

11. I find that suspicious

"High levels of social and family breakdown"? That sounds more like the US than Britain. Granted, I don't have any numbers, but there are some pretty huge differences between the UK and the US in quality of life. Low crime rate would be one, I'd guess, plus the availability of medical treatment. If this was indeed put togewther by a RW organization, it's easy to guess why liberal Britain is ranked lower than wingnut America.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. The Economist has a European-style conservative,

corporate "free" trade at all costs kind of outlook.

Yes, the rating for the UK does seem low.

[LynnTheDem]

36. Ever lived in the UK?

From living there over a decade, I don't find that "suspicious" at all.

[Terran]

37. I haven't, no.

I guess I've just formed a picture of the UK over the last several years that is maybe more rosey than reality.

[LynnTheDem]

38. Isn't that always the case tho; or the exact opposite, such as our friends

who have never been to the former east bloc countries, and when they think of Czech Republic or Hungary etc can only picture them in "black & white" like on an old TV. They say they can't imagine those countries in full color (green grass, blue sky etc) like they can with Canada or the UK.

Every time they look at our (full color, :D ) photos they say "can't believe that's Hungary! It's so COLORFUL!" LOL!

The UK has its problems. But then look who's talking...we live in TEXAS now! :scared: :D

[Terran]

39. Know whatcha mean (re the Eastern Bloc)

It's hard for me to picture Prague, for instance, the way people here sometimes discuss it. Having grown up in the 60's, Prague will forever connote for me images of dreary Eastern European Cold War intrigues. The very phrase "Eastern Europe" conjures up grayness and oppression. Hard to escape the paradigms of our youth.

[LynnTheDem]

41. Exactly! And actually Praha is BEAUTIFUL!

But we've been there many, many times, so it's easy for us (hubby & me) to picture it in full living color, but our friends see it as you say; dreary grim.

And I believe that's also why bush and other maniacal bastards like him find it easy to march this country to war to "improve" and "save" the "poor oppressed masses" who live overseas because so many Americans do imagine this grainy grim dreary gray no-color world and compare to the full-color America.

And then they're SHOCKED when someone (me, for example) DARES to mention how very beautiful it USED to be along the riverwalks in Baghdad BEFORE it was all destroyed thanks to bush. And now I see the photos of huge mountains of rubble and garbage and dirt and now Baghdad looks just like NY's "Ground Zero" did before clean-up.

And Iraq hadn't been doing one damn thing against anyone.

bloody ****ing hell. :(

[Taxloss]

31. We're expensive, overcrowded, and the economy is overheating.

Transport is a nightmare. Education is problematic right now. Crime is falling, but fear of it is rising thanks to a sensationalist gutter press that delights in creating an impression that everything is far worse than it is.

I'm surprised we didn't rank higher, but not a lot higher. Five years ago, we would have ranked much higher.

There are wonderful intangible benefits to living in Britain, but they can't really be measured. I for one wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

[RBHam]

3. Erin Go Bragh!

Will Americans emigrate en masse to Ireland after the BFEE bankrupt America?

Ironies...

"Ever notice them filthy Yanks are always drunk and fighting?"

[evlbstrd]

7. Time for all the ancestors of Irish emigres

to go back home!

[Marnieworld]

18. You mean descendants

The ancestors are dead.

[evlbstrd]

27. Brain fart.

Must be the booze!

[Marnieworld]

29. I had to think about it for a moment myself

Must be the weed. ;-)

[evlbstrd]

30. I appreciate the benefit of the doubt.

And I love all things green!;)

[stickdog]

33. Erin Go Bra-less!

Sorry, just channeling a particularly spectacular ex-girlfriend.

[oscar111]

4. NORWAY #1 last few years, UN says, IIRC

Last i read on this topic, about a year ago, the UN rated nations and found again that Norway led all.

The Economist is a notorious RW magazine, so beware. The RW has been known to fudge numbers. Or make them up at times. I trust the UN much more.

[demo dutch]

6. What does the UN say about the US???

[DrDebug]

22. I think he means the Human Development Index

I'm sorry but I can't post it as text because it's too complex, but here's the screen dump:



The report can be found at http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2004/

It is a horrible report though because the most important table (see above) is on page 153 (!!) so you spend minutes to find it

[PKG]

9. Hey, I love the Economist.

They're not part of the Right Wing Establishment--hell, they're British. They're sympathetic to Tories, but they endorsed Kerry and Clinton. Above all, they're smart.

[newfaceinhell]

21. and they endorsed Blair in the last british election

I usually think of the economist as being on the right, but generally preferring centrists to all-out RW-whackos.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hardrada]

13. Syttende Mai coming up!

Ja vi elsker...!

[KitSileya]

45. It is indeed.

"Ja, vi elsker dette landet,
som det stiger frem.
Furet, værbitt, over vannet,
med de tusen hjem.
Elsker, elsker det og tenker,
på vår far og mor,
og den saganatt som senker
drømme på vår jord.
Og den saganatt som senker
drømme på vår jord."

Hurra for Syttende Mai!


Ok, sorry, but even I, Yankeephile that I am, get a bit soft in the head when 17th of May (Norwegian Constitution Day) is near. I mean, Norway was one of the first countries to decide to focus on the children when they celebrated their independence - with children's parades rather than military parades. I think that says something about the mindset of the country.

[KitSileya]

43. Do you think they've fudged the numbers?

There are some detractions to living in Norway - it depends on your view. Some people would get stir crazy with the government's overseer function. Alcohol sale is restricted, there's lots of taxes on things that are deemed not good (oil, for example is more expensive in Norway than in many other European countries, even tho' we produce our own oil. It's because of the taxes.) Others might not appreciate that we have a state church, and currently, the Christian Democrats have the occife of Prime Minister, who incidentally is a priest also.

However, if you look at things like health care, education, welfare, support of families, maternity leave etc Norway's in a strong position.

[dbt]

5. No surprise if you've ever been there!

I :loveya: Clare.

[FSogol]

8. Must be the Guinness?

I'm sure if RW radio disappeared, then the US life satisfaction # would go up. At least it would in my case.

[demo dutch]

10. Same here ...did you read the piece from Keillor on RW radio?

What a great read!!
This is the link

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050523&c=2&s=keillor

[FSogol]

16. Yeah, Love all of GK writing and radio work.

His is right that in proposing that the hate radio hurts their listeners the most.

[Chomp]

12. Hello from Ireland!

Hello from the Nirvana that is our green and pleasant land!

As I look out my window at the flowing streams of milk and the plentiful supplies of honey, I remember that when I was in school (I'm 32 now) unemplyment in this country was 18% (that is not a typo - 18%). Emmigration was the only option for school leavers. The whole country was shit poor, dreary and utterly hopeless (as in without hope).

Divorce was illegal. Abortion of all forms was illegal. Dublin had the worst heroin problem in Europe. Politicians were the most corrupt in Europe. Everyone was Catholic and white. A woman's place was in the kitchen.

Condoms were only available on prescription from suspicious doctors: the idea of condom machines in pubs caused a national scandal when they were first mooted. And I mean, a major national scandal. In fact, getting any form of family planning if your weren't married was difficult/impossible. Abstention was your only choice. As a result, getting a ride in those days was probably pretty difficult (I don't mean a ride in a car BTW). Grim.

The Catholic Church was the No. 1 voice of authority on all matters from morality to politics to public policy to economics to child-rearing to just about everything. Meanwhile, behind the curtain, priests were sexually (and otherwise) abusing children like it was part of their job spec.

The "Troubles" in Northern Ireland were in full, grotesque swing. Every night on TV (and Irish DUers will remember this) there were 2 more RUC policemen shot in Belfast or another bombing in London or another knee-capping behind a pub in Derry. People's attitudes were sectarian and tribal. And there was absolutely no end in sight.

Poverty was the norm. Vast ugly housing estates and inner-city slums or high-rises caused all manner of social problems. Schools were shite, hospitals were shite. Roads were shite, food was shite, TV was shite. Everything was shite.

Today, I can't smoke in the pub and I moan all day about house prices. I suppose some problems are nice to have.

[demo dutch]

15. I know all those facts... that's why it's remarkable

I feel that because countries like Ireland and also for example Luxemburg have suffered so much throughout history, that they have acquired a certain wisdom about the world.
This wisdom give them the ability to govern their country well and find the balance between prosperity and the well-being of the country and it's people.

[OnionPatch]

19. So, what happened? How did it change?

I'd love to hear more about how it changed and why. I'd love to go there. I wonder if they need GIS people.

[NuttyFluffers]

20. so the lesson here is separation of church and state...

and learn to ignore the troglodytes who attempt to hold back progress?

that's what i'm getting so far; wonder when america will remember this bit o' wisdom again. beginning to believe like janeanne that conservatives/neocons are like locusts that occur every 50-70 years, take over a country, send it backwards into destruction and destitution, get the complacent progressives off their ass and repair everything.

[Henny Penny]

47. yes thats the lesson!

The more control the church had, the more backward the country was. Take heed America!

[Henny Penny]

42. Hello chomp!

Are you called after that chewy chocolate bar???

[dutchdemocrat]

14. United States is above?

US is above Canada and The Netherlands?

Yah Right.


The nine quality-of-life factors, and the indicators used
to represent these factors, are:
1. Material wellbeing gdp per person is bullshit
gdp per person, at ppp in $. Source: Economist Intelligence
Unit
2. Health what about medicare?
Life expectancy at birth, years. Source: us Census Bureau
3. Political stability and security
Political stability and security ratings. Source: Economist
Intelligence Unit
4. Family life
Divorce rate (per 1,000 population), converted into index
of 1 (lowest divorce rates) to 5 (highest). Sources: un; Euromonitor
5. Community life CHURCH?
Dummy variable taking value 1 if country has either high
rate of church attendance or trade-union membership; zero
otherwise. Sources: ilo; World Values Survey
6. Climate and geography
Latitude, to distinguish between warmer and colder climes.
Source: cia World Factbook
7. Job security
Unemployment rate, %. Sources: Economist Intelligence
Unit; ilo.
8. Political freedom Patriot Act?
Average of indices of political and civil liberties. Scale of 1
(completely free) to 7 (unfree). Source: Freedom House
9. Gender equality
Ratio of average male and female earnings, latest available
data. Source: undp Human Development Report

[demo dutch]

17. The Netherlands has some major issues, that probably were

considered, such as over crowdedness, cost and access to housing, social and family breakdown, more recently education, unemployment and the economy, also the political divide and social problems that are going on. As far as divorce rate is concerned, hard to measure in the Netherlands because many people don't marry anymore, they cohabitate.

I have been going there for the past 22 years, and it's not what it used to be. Take those factors into consideration and you might understand why it scored 16.

You should read the entire piece, specifically the assessment factors. Remember this is an assessment for 2005 only.

[dutchdemocrat]

32. Sorry

Don't agree.

I read the entire piece and I think it's bullshit.

Healthcare and education are disregarded in this analysis.

I live in Holland, and I have lived in the US and Canada.

So in terms of personal experience I certainly disagree.

Over crowdedness? Weird. I feel less 'overcrowded' here than I do in New York City or LA.

Cost and access to housing is certainly an issue. But it also is in New York or most other metropolis' in the US.

Education? Most recently? Students or their parents are certainly not paying in excess of US$50,000 a year to study anywhere in this country which has some of the best (and oldest) universities in the world. The government still coughs up money for school.

As for political divide and social problems, they are no worse here then the US. Try and find a ghetto in this country. And the political split is not bipolar like it is in the USA... it's got more players and interests.

Economist bull. That's what this is.

[Amonester]

25. Wonder where Iraq might be...

... if the list was to include all countries?


111 Zimbabwe 3.89
...
...
...
...
End Iraq 0.000001


:shrug:

[DrDebug]

26. The HDI couldn't be calculated for Iraq

I don't know about this one, but the Human Development Index lacked the following countries, since they are either too unstable to provide information or too small to have the statistics:

Afghanistan, Andorra, Iraq, Kiribati, the Democratic Republic of Korea, Liberia, Liechtenstein, Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia, Monaco, Nauru, Palau, San Marino, Serbia and Montenegro, Somalia and Tuvalu.

The last ones are:
147. Zimbabwe
(...)
172. Guinea-Bissau
173. Burundi
174. Mali
175. Burkina Faso
176. Niger
177. Sierra Leone

[Horse with no Name]

28. What about Cuba?

With their education and healthcare, they should certainly rank higher than Mexico, same with Venezuela.

[arcos]

34. not Venezuela...

Sure, things are getting better, but it will take them several more years to have good stats... literacy is just 93% and infant mortality rate is really high, for example.

[LynnTheDem]

35. #13 matches the US ranking for freedoms & democracy.

Speaking of...so why did "they" attack us for "hating our freedoms" when we're only ranked at #13 for freedoms?

SHHHHH! Mustn't let common frigging sense frighten the rightwingnuttery!

[question everything]

40. Not surprised

We visited Ireland two years ago and were really enchanted, especially by Gallway. And one reason was that it reminded me the way Europe used to be some 30 years earlier, before its welcoming and liberal policies were abused by militants and terrorists.

And I think that one reason why Ireland is still so enchanting is because, as an Island, one cannot simply drive through from Continental Europe. But, I suspect, give it time.

This was shortly after Ireland joined the EU, or shortly after it was supposed to have complied with many rules, and a physician that we met was lamenting some of the rules, labor rules, I think.

[JVS]

44. Isn't abortion still illegal in Ireland?

[Henny Penny]

46. yes it is !

So its not nirvana! Its like every where else... there are good points and there are bad points.

I think next year we will see a survey saying somewhere completely different is the best place to live :-)

The only good thing to be said for these surveys is that if they highlight a particular problem in a country, the citizens can use the report to force their govt. to take action. Lets hope Bob Mugabe was given a copy.