Credibility no longer counts - Helen Thomas

[BR_Parkway]

http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050512/NEWS/505120319/1039

According to the Times, the memo said that "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

The report was not disavowed by the British government. At the time of the memo, Bush officials were insisting they had no plans to attack Iraq.

I am not surprised at the duplicity. But I am astonished at the acceptance of this deception by voters in the U.S. and the U.K.

I've seen two American presidents go down the drain — Lyndon B. Johnson on Vietnam and Richard Nixon in the Watergate scandal — because they were no longer believed. But times change — and I guess our values do, too.

[ixion]

1. Go Helen!

It's so refreshing to hear a journalist speak the truth in op-ed. There are so few doing so these days.

:applause: Thanks, Ms. Thomas, for continuing to push for credibility. :applause:


By the by... this is commentary and NOT LBN. ;-)

[liberal N proud]

2. Makes you wonder what values people were voting for!

[goddess40]

33. They are voting for "winners" the end justifies the means these days

We have become such a winner takes all sports society that nothing else matters.
They also vote on the fear factor, the Christians fear they are being overtaken by non-Christians from what they seem to feel is their rightful place as rulers of the country.
White men fear that "their" jobs are being taken by anyone that isn't them as they have first choice at jobs and if they don't want them then and only then can the job be offered to a female or minority.

This country seems to worship bullies - Kids that are tormented for years at school some how deserve it. When these kids try and defend themselves or just snap - they are told they have no right to do that either. The same mentality has invaded the work place and politics.

[babylonsister]

3. Nominated! Nice to hear the truth from such an

intelligent source! But Helen, FYI, my values haven't changed. I want the bum outa there!:banghead:

[AlinPA]

4. She is great. Too bad 'muricans don't / can't read newspapers.

This is the part that struck me: "I am not surprised at the duplicity. But I am astonished at the acceptance of this deception by voters in the U.S. and the U.K.". How true.

[JohnnyRingo]

23. That's right, they don't read newspapers

I was at an Eat'n'Park lunch counter a couple weeks ago. I watched a typical "Joe Hourly" guy sit down, open his daily newspaper (I saw this coming), and fish out the sports section. That was as far as he got.

I imagine he has Fox™ for current events, like missing attractive white women stories.

Or perhaps he knows that with GWB at the helm, he needn't concern himself at all.

Someday, when everything comes crashing down on us, these people will wake up and say: "WOW! I guess Clinton policies are still kicking in".

Sometimes I just want to scream and flap my arms like a madman.

[wicket]

5. I love Helen!

I've corresponded with her before via email, she rocks! :kick:

[indepat]

6. Most of the public is either ideologically driven or ignorant/apathetic

and besides absolutely nothing a Repug president ever does or doesn't do is ever to be questioned by we the people, the Congress, the courts, the media, so let's hang on and enjoy the merry ride for as long as it lasts.

[Toots]

7. I guess Lying is the "value" voters turned out in droves for

Values...what a joke. If the country had a Democratic leadership and they all had feathers up their ass we would all be tickled. How is that for values....

[Imagine My Surprise]

8. Correct me if I'm wrong...

but my theory, for some time now, has been that NOTHING will change until the middle-class begin to suffer in a BIG way, and that is NOT happening anytime SOON, it seems.

Until such a time, no one gives a rat's ass about the woes of the rich or the poor.

Declining SUV sales offer only a glimmer of hope.

[Melynn]

30. I agree with you about nothing changing until

the middle class starts to suffer. Unlike you I think that time is near.

[AlGore-08.com]

9. Helen Thomas is one of the good guys BUT she blames the voters

And totally ignores the role of the media in all this mess.

If the mainstream media had not spent eight years reporting every half baked allegation against Bill Clinton as legitimate, if they had not spent 1998 - 2002 lying that Gore was a psychopathic liar, if they hadn't just repeated without comment the GOP smear attacks against every vulnerable Dem up for election in 2002 who was labeled "unpatriotic", if they hadn't spent every second that Smirk was on the national scene praising everything he did as genius, authentic, bold, etc. - - if they had bothered to cover Smirk's record and plans in any kind of objective way, in any kind of depth, in 2000 and 2004 - - if they had actually bothered to investigate the Smirk and Blair administrations claims about Iraq during the lead up to the invasion instead of just gushing over how wonderful Colin Powell was - - maybe the voters wouldn't be so stupid. Ya know?

I'm just sayin'...

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. But in Britain it is the voters

and when the media tried to report on the government deception, the government attacked the BBC with everything it could to discredit the organisation. Not much happened to defend the BBC. When the "fixing the facts" memo was reported in all the serious UK newspapers, and on UK TV and radio, the UK electorate still managed to allow Blair back in. We have to face it - the typical British voter has a sneaking admiration for a fascist leader who can achieve his ends. And I suspect the same goes for the American voter, even if well-informed.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

38. yes

the average American is so fucking stupid he/she doesn't know what an empire is, so as long as it has an American flag on it it must mean freedom etc. Somehow I expected more from the British.

[BillZBubb]

22. I'm sick of excusing the sheeple because of the media.

The media didn't lead me to support Bush. I hope it didn't lead anyone else here to support Bush. So, why do people here make excuses that the media mislead others to support Bush?

Are we so elite we are immune? That's the only explanation for your position. I don't buy it.

Come on, the sheeple like Bush and what he does. Quit making excuses and accept the reality.

[Double T]

10. Credibility And Integrity Are Totally Absent From The Bush Administration

Eventually this idiot will run out of his "Capital" that he "earned" in the election. Bush still has 3.5 years left and he is facing some really ugly situations that he will not be able to "spin" his way out of.

[WhiteTara]

11. since the election was stolen, we don't really now

what values people hold. If the exit polls are to be believed, then we did say not to duplicity...but there was so much more duplicity that the original duplicity that the duplicity can't be uncovered.:argh:

[Cleita]

12. Oh, but Helen it still does. Watch these crooks fall harder

than the previous two because we are twice as angry and we aren't going to take it anymore.

[tabasco]

13. Always big thanks for posting Helen Thomas.

A voice of reason screaming in the wilderness.

[ooglymoogly]

14. when all around us democracy is burning

helen stands tall, defender of truth, justice and the american way....to hell with the murkin way it is destroying us.

[AngryOldDem]

15. This says it all

>>I've seen two American presidents go down the drain — Lyndon B. Johnson on Vietnam and Richard Nixon in the Watergate scandal — because they were no longer believed. But times change — and I guess our values do, too.>>

I've often asked myself since this debacle started, "Where is the outrage?" Where is the outrage that we were lied to? Where is the outrage that the government is constantly trying to cover up the true extent and cost of this war -- most notably in lives -- and where is the outrage that there is obviously no end in sight? Where is the outrage that people like Richard Clarke and the UN inspection teams were all basically painted as the liars, when in fact, they were telling us the truth all along?

I guess our commitment to "kick-ass" jingoism disguised as apple-pie patriotism has made us blind to all that. Helen Thomas hit the nail right on the head. Something HAS changed in the psyche of this nation, and it isn't for the better. I used to think that eventually this nation would wake up and see this war for what it is. I'm beginning to think it won't.

[NJCher]

31. a corrupt people

Something HAS changed in the psyche of this nation, and it isn't for the better.

I started noticing it about 15 years ago but it was probably in the making a long time before that. What really makes it painfully obvious is products such as leafblowers and gigantic SUVs. Might as well wear a sign around the neck: "I'm a selfish, incosiderate DICKHEAD and all's right with the world."

These products are like labels for the person using them.

No person who cares about the environment or has consideration for fellow citizens drives a Hummer (or a Yukon or an Expedition or a Tahoe). No person who gives a damn about his neighbors uses a leafblower.

IMO, it is the constant tearing back of regulation of a capitalist country. It's the constant beat of materialism, materialism, materialism.


Cher

[SlavesandBulldozers]

39. 9/11 changed everything

and justifies anything.

[johnlal]

16. Grass Roots republicans are "in on" the lie

We all knew Bush was lying. The average Republican voter doesn't care. They are in on the lie. The Republican party has become a brand. It has not only gathered political support, but BRAND LOYALTY. It's like the cola wars, only worse. They will stick by the Republican party, and even repeat their lies, because Bush is their boy. There's some naughty thrill out of being aligned with this dirty party. Since Watergate, Iran Contra, and the Clinton Impeachment, everybody knows the Republican party will misuse its power to do whatever the hell it wants. This as close as some will get to participating in our government-- repeating its lies.

It's no wonder that they are not shocked by these revelations.

[bonzotex]

21. That makes a lot of sense

It's like rooting for a dirty sports team. While they win, the fans don't care. They even like the dirty unsportsman-like antics and the shameless scandals. Opposing teams are vilified for no other reason than they are the other team. No logic or ethics required.

[sunnystarr]

41. I'm convinced that this brand loyalty is the result

of affect and success of Limbaugh, Hannity, and all their clones ... all they ask is that you tune in 3 hours each day to stay on message and in their mind control.

Then of course they are on TV and take the show on the road ... even featured as commencement speakers.

These are the true propoganda machines that are responsible for the shift in public perception. The corporate media cartel provides the vehicle that spreads the diatribe 24/7.

There has been no outrage because the CMC will not make the truth part of their programming. When public pressure (like from us here on DU and kos) cry out in outrage, they will print something on page A18, make a mention in the bottom scroll, or even make one report on one day that gives out the minimum information ... then they'll say they covered it.

Used to be this would be major news, front page stuff that was on every station and covered fully.

Without the media the truth won't get out to the masses. They know that and that's why they grabbed control of the MSM first. We have to be creative to get the truth out and never give up.

[KaliTracy]

17. Administration based on lies, lies, lies. Election that was stolen 2 x

[Sacajawea]

18. Kick...As usual, Helen is dead on.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[RBHam]

20. Needs a kick

nt

[blondeatlast]

24. God, how I wish she were front and center again. Showing my age,

but those were the days (I was a politically active pre-teen during WG).

[Spazito]

25. I love Helen Thomas, she is the canary in the mine as ...

regards the degredation of the media. She holds true to what used to be the accepted principles of journalism and that is why the bush cabal fear her, imo.

[Stand and Fight]

26. Great thread -- kicking it. n/t

[Vyan]

27. Setting the record straight

I posted the following on the Rutland Herald site in response to Helen's article.

Helen,

I respect your work, dedication, courage and integrity greatly - but I simply have to point out a major failing in your commentary.

John Kerry did not say that he would have "gone to war in Iraq" exactly like George Bush. What he said was that he would have signed House Joint Res 114 in order to force Saddam to allow the inspectors back into the country in order to do their job, and as we now know - would have averted the requirement to go to war. The resolution required the President to exhaust "all diplomatic means" prior to the using force. He didn't do that. Kerry and the press allowed Bush to claim he was a "flip-flopper" for standing on his principles. A ridiculous charge when all you have to read his comments on the Senate Floor when signing the bill.

"Kerry (Oct. 9, 2002) Let there be no doubt or confusion about where we stand on this. I will support a multilateral effort to disarm him (Saddam) by force, if we ever exhaust those other options, as the President has promised, but I will not support a unilateral U.S. war against Iraq unless that threat is imminent and the multilateral effort has not proven possible under any circumstances."

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=268

If the media was completely unable to clarify this point, despite thousands of man and woman-hours of reporting, how can they seriously be expected to convincingly report what many of us have always suspected and John Kerry said many times in straight-forward plain english.

George Bush mislead us.

Maybe the lack of response you point out is simply the result of own collective *sigh* of resignation at our presumed helplessness to change or improve things. Maybe not.

Still, the point remains that we have to be able to trust what our President tells, us - but we also have to be able to trust those who bring us our information to not succumb to the "echo chamber of common wisdom", they need to do their research and hold our politicians feet to the fire, or else they will continue to misleads us all, again and again...

Frank Vyan Walton
http://vyan.blogspot.com

[AndyTiedye]

28. We Love You Helen...`

...but the fact that we have to read you in the Rutland Herald
pretty much says it all. The mass media are all working for the regime.

[Snotcicles]

29. Funny how when the religious right is shown to have made

an impact on the election, truth and integrity, is shown to have less of an impact.

[Disturbed]

32. Most Americans simply do not care...

that Bush lies frequently. The lies about Iraq don't matter to them because they feel that Saddam had to be ousted and the oil needed to flow to Amerika. You see how most Amerikans balked at the SS scam, though. That is a personal issue.

[DemBones DemBones]

34. Most Americans simply do not know

how many lies they've been told. It's partly their fault. partly the media's fault. The media told the people about Viet Nam and Watergate.

[babywatson]

35. I'm not sure that many people in the U.S. just accept it,

but the media won't report that. I have written many, many, many times to our senators in Virginia denouncing the decision to go to war, and I never get more than the token form letter back. I have even written to other senators. Guess what? When I tried to complain to Joe Biden about his decision on a controversial Bush bill, I got a letter back saying that since I wasn't a resident of his state they wouldn't accept my mail!!!

[xxqqqzme]

36. I got those same replys

when I communicated w/ senators outside California. I now include in my letters: 'Your decision transcends all boundaries; it affects ALL Americans.'

I got fed-up w/ elected representatives using that 'not my constutuient' lame ass excuse. If they are making a decision - invade Iraq - relax mercury & lead standards - trash public lands - they R outside their constituency and they need 2 B reminded of that.

[agincourt]

37. I agree with most of it except for two points,

Tony Blair would be flying back to Texas on a missile if he were a Tory, that's how fast they would get rid of him. It's just the way their parliamentary system is set up that makes removing him difficult. Hopefully he'll be out someway, but they don't want to replace him with Tories. That would be like us replacing president Liebermann with president Delay. Another thing our pigboy media twisted Kerry's words around a lot to help Bush. All he said was that if a country hostile to the US was building WMDs and there was any probability of use on us, the president should have authorization to deal with it militarily. He did not say Bush could invade Iraq so that the goon could nut strap strut on a carrier deck, which was the real reason.

[Q]

40. The American people don't 'accept' this duplicity...

...it's the American Media that's keeping the truth from them and downplaying the story as 'no big deal'.

The People can't demand accountability if they're not told the whole truth.