United FUCKS employees out of pension - still trust Bush/SSI scam?

[SF Bay Area Dem]

So United got permission from some "libruul activist judge" to fuck it's employees out of their pensions... anyway the taxpayers now have the privilege of paying the pensions for pennies on the dollar... everyone loses and the people who put in 30-40 years with United find themselves "bent over" yet again. To add insult to injury the airline wants the employees to take MORE pay-cuts. Other major airlines like Delta, American, Northwest and US Air (already in bankruptcy) now intend to file for bankruptcy to "enjoy" the same benefit as United and fuck their own employees out of their pensions and also to demand wage cuts. Other old-line companies such as General Motors and Ford, plus dozens of other industries are looking at the same strategy to fuck their own employees and saddle the taxpayers with the bill.

Does this remind anyone of the S&L fiasco of the Bush Sr years? That fucking scandal cost the taxpayers 800 BILLION+! What is it with this Bush family anyway?

So I ask... given that everyone is about to be fucked out of their pensions by Republican run conservative companies how could we possibly trust Republicans and corrupt conservatives to "overhaul" social security? Any answers from the corrupt conservatives?

***My apologies for the language... I am hot under the collar over this issue.

[blondeatlast]

1. What's even worse is that the ruling shifts much of the pension plan

coverage to the TAXPAYERS--yet UAL employees still lose at least of third of what they were promised.

That's right--WE pick up the tab for that asswipe Glenn Tilton's miserable mismanagement.

[SF Bay Area Dem]

5. Does anyone know how mush Tilton and his staff pay/pension...

...has been cut?

[blondeatlast]

12. Cough. Gasp. Oh--you're SERIOUS?!

:hi:

[SF Bay Area Dem]

13. United executives still receive all of the perks...

...and fuck the employees...

[Jensen]

22. Zipp, Zero...

He will get 4.2 million dollars and just gave himself and his other minions a 1.2 million dollar bonus for a job well done!

[ixion]

2. More hypocrisy from the repubes... apparently, welfare is a-okay

for corporations. It's only for the people who actually pay taxes that welfare is a no-no.

:eyes:


These people make me :puke:

[antigop]

3. Please read --- ALL pension plans are under attack

I posted this in yesterday's Stock Market Thread.

PLEASE READ! It points to a document on the Republican Policy Committee website and asks Congress to get involved to determine the legality of cash balance and hybrid plans.

If you currently have a defined benefit pension plan or know someone who does, PLEASE LET THEM KNOW ABOUT THIS!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1461994#1462312

[SF Bay Area Dem]

7. That article is alarming! Now the holy war has started on pensions?

Let me guess... the radical clerics Dobson, Falwell and Robertson will now proclaim pensions are "Libruul" welfare and un-Godly!

[Tansy_Gold]

28. No, the holy war is wholly on the working classes

Meaning, those who actually work for a living rather than the parasites who do nothing but leech off the workers.

The holy war is aimed at doing away with that modern invention called "retirement." Workers will be forced to work until they die, the way they used to in the good ol' days. The money they voluntarily put into the roulette wheel of "private retirement accounts" will ultimately end up in the pockets of the wealthy aristos who have a couple of generations of socialist welfare payments to be repatriated.

This kind of wealth repatriation is not to be compared to slavery reparations, since slaves and the descendants of slaves are not annointed by almighty gawd to be entitled to wealth, leisure, retirement, health care, or any of the other divine privileges of the upper classes.

Once the pension plans are gutted and the social security hoard is turned over to the oligarchs of Wall Street, the revolution will celebrate its victory over the workers.

The grocery workers' strike last year protected only those who already had seniority; new workers are treated just about like Wal-Mart "associates" when it comes to pay and benefits. The union was broken without breaking it.

Unless and until one union stands up and refuses to knuckle under, the program will continue and ALL workers will suffer for it.

[In Truth We Trust]

4. Kick and vote to nominate for greatest

[hank1901]

6. Yes, but Americans love those cheap air fares. Watch what happens

if the carriers start raising prices again. All hell will break loose with people complaining about the "high cost of flying" and demand airline collusion investigations.

[SF Bay Area Dem]

8. We had cheap fares and pensions but...

because of mis-management a great airline like United has been run into the ground!

And who gets screwed in the end? The taxpayers! And thanks to Bush we are BROKE!

[blondeatlast]

11. I was in the travel industry when the low fare carriers began.

The market survived and GREW. Guess which airlines survived 9/11 without a bailout? The low-fare ones--Southwest continues to make a healthy profit. They have exceptional management and very happy employees.

I know the industry. Mismanagement is what is killing the big airlines, not low fares. Why did UAL order 14 747s when they are in the throes of bankruptcy--which they have NOT cancelled?

And yet, it's the "greedy" employees and the low fare airlines that are killing the industry--give me a break.

Welcome to DU, btw; and thanks for allowing me to dispel theis week's talking point.

[SF Bay Area Dem]

15. Ordering 14 747's??? And re-painting their fleet? Why???

Mismanagement abounds here...

[blondeatlast]

18. But you aren't paying attention (to the man behind the curtain)...

It's that damn Southwest! And the greedy employees...

You must stare into the pretty crystal a little harder--now breeeeeathe...

There, isn't that better now?

[bertha katzenengel]

26. YOU ROCK

Well said. Excellent, uh, dispelling. :bounce:

[SF Bay Area Dem]

9. My question remains: Should we trust conservatives to "overhaul"

Social Security with private accounts after this????

My answer is NEVER! Bush and his goons cannot be trusted with our Social Security.

[PATRICK]

10. Both ways insanity

And the GOP spin is that this is precisely why you can't trust Social Security, even though it is the security of the taxpayer bailout of UA, paying part of the defunct fund for them, that comes to the rescue.

So the vicious circle is that you can't trust the government except when it bails out corporate entities and its bond and word cannot be relied on... but private enterprise bound by no rules or security any better than UA is- despite the record- despite its dependence on taxpayers servitude to bailing them out?

If the government is so subverted there is no trust anywhere but in who controls the blunt instruments at the moment. Everything will spin out into outer space or collapse to a singularity with this indefensible insanity passing as GOP argumentation.

[blondeatlast]

14. It's the damn think tanks/shadow governent, but no one wants to

really look at it; not even at DU.

Nevertheless, I will keep quietly plugging away, mentioning the HF and AEI every chance I can.

Someday, the HF will overdo it, and their will be a huge hue and cry on DU about it.

I'm over here in the corner, guys. the elephant is in the middle of the room--WHERE I'M POINTING...

[DemBones DemBones]

20. Good point about HF and AEI -- you can bet their jobs are safe while

airlines, plants, megabusinesses like Enron, etc. go under, military bases are closed (having a huge negative impact on the local economy, local people suddenly realizing those soldiers/sailors/airmen/jarheads and their families, which they barely tolerated and often discriminated against, were their bread and butter.)

We need think tanks on our side, with plenty of people available to go on TV and tell the progressive side of every issue.

[PATRICK]

24. Some years ago

a few individuals on specific issues(education, etc.)went to some pains to do what journalists who quote and feature think tanks will not. Fact check. Many tanks are way overripe for discrediting. Fake stories, fake experts, aganeda driven "results". Slick prooganda, not intellectual research or honest advocacy. Parroted by ignoramuses. Assimilated in easy reading book clubs for pseudo-conservatives.

I will guarantee you that if there was an even playing field, which there should not be for deliberate falsehoods, these entities would be working night and day to discredit hours before they hired one honest professional or offered one honest fact of their own.

The lack of an open playing field and us being outmaneouvered and underrepresented by the ignorant GOP media one is a giant consideration more than creating expensive ivory towers ripe for tarring. In fact, the strongholds of research and new thought, the universities, are under great assault in every way as we think of expanding in this almost superficial way. The youthful turnover at universities and their regionality and number are less prone to creating monied elitist dinosaurs of daunting expertise.

it was never the number of people but the monomanical unity of message and obliteration of facts that has characterized GOP think tank presence. In subtle ways I see a call to imitate the vices without being vices. How to deal with lies and an assault on truth? That is more than tossing your charts and anlayses against theirs.

[gpandas]

16. already happened in steel industry...

many steelworkers got fucked on pensions and medical costs in the 70's. the pension promises are meaningless.

[lonestarnot]

17. I'm fucking hot too! But bushitler is gett'n what he cheated for! Not

surprised. This won't be the only over the next 3 years and 6 months.

[DemBones DemBones]

19. Never did trust Bush SSI scam! It's so awful when this happens.

I've seen large plants in this area go under and the employees lost everything -- jobs, wages, benefits, and, yes, pensions. Yet there's always enough money for those golden parachutes for the front office boys, who never worked that hard when they were working.

Worse, still, in the case of United and other airlines, we taxpayers have bailed them out time and time again, so we were screwed over, too.

[Blue Diadem]

21. Already happened to us..

Hubby's company was bought out a few years before it went "bankrupt". The former owner kept the pension plan for the previous years and kept it going..but for some reason was able to turn it over to PBGC a few years ago. Now..even though it's promised and at a reduced rate..we keep hearing that there are serious money shortages because these companies are turning in underfunded pension plans.

I keep wondering what is going to happen..we may lose out on the pension, we may lose out on social security..will we be working until we die?

A side note to anyone whose pension is turned into PBGC. Make sure you receive documentation that your information is correct. We found out that hubby's company messed up their entire employee database..attaching different SS #'s to names and mixing up addresses too. It took about a year to straighten it all out. We aren't of retirement age, so we had the time, but for those who didn't, I wonder how they survived. I have to say that PBGC were the nicest people to work with and were very upset at the mess.

[Jensen]

23. Yesterday Congressman Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill)

Gave a speech in the house concerning exactly this question

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/speech/il05_emanuel/United_pension.html
snip

G“For United Airlines and US Airways employees, the steel industry before them, and probably the auto industry next, Social Security is the lynchpin to their retirement security.

“They reject the idea of doing to Social Security what just happened to their private plans where they put their personal and employer based savings.

“Their benefits are now on the roulette table and being cut by 40%.

“Two-thirds of seniors and 40 percent of widows rely on Social Security as their only retirement.

“Mr. Speaker, this debate is about more than the solvency of Social Security, it’s about the retirement security of every American.”
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Today I called Rep Emanuel office to thank him and wrote to the DNC hoping that Uniteds problems are not for nothing and for every democrat to let the American people know that their pensions are NOT safe and not to let the *administration get a hold of the little money we will get for Our hard worked golden years!

If you wish to call Rep Emanuel (D-Ill) DC no 202-225-4061

Chicago office 773-267-5926

If the link does not work please can someone fix it, I 'm not very good at this...Thank you

[wallwriter]

25. Corporations can go bankrupt, but individuals are not allowed.

Looks like the money can only go in one direction.

[Egalitariat]

27. It's a very sad situation

When most of these folks started working, they had no retirement choice other than the company controlled pension.

To have something as important as your retirement under the control of others has to be a helpless feeling.