Its an ABOMINATION that Johns Hopkins needs 50 grand UP FRONT

[maveric]

to give someone a lifesaving surgery. We already have $32,000.00+!
We need to take to the fucking streets to reform this messed-up health care system in this country.
I work in health care and am seeing things like this and worse! Its class-warfare IMO!
If you're not rich or have "adequate" health care policies, then you die?

I dint mean to scare you Andy. Its just a rant that has been stewing inside me for a long while.

We'll get you there buddy!

[graywarrior]

1. Feel exactly the same way.

[madmom]

2. they're afaid he might try to file bankrubcy before Oct. n/t

[Bluebear]

3. I said the exact thing an hour ago

What, Hopkins is going to say "no, sorry, you have to have every penny"? Ferchrissakes are they going to count out the money on the admitting desk as they wheel him in?


(Apologies to Andy too, talk about a poster dude for American health care!)

[WI_DEM]

4. This is why the fight for National Health Insurance must continue

Every human being deserves to be treated with dignity. Why is one life more valuable because that person has private insurance and can pay for their treatment than the other? It's obscene.

[Bluebear]

5. Cripes, get Kerry/Edwards to sign a note of credit

[charlyvi]

6. It's a terrible condemnation of our health care system.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/healthscience/health/healthcare/2002-05-22-insurance-deaths.htm




05/22/2002 - Updated 04:54 AM ET



18,000 deaths blamed on lack of insurance

By Steve Sternberg, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON — More than 18,000 adults in the USA die each year because they are uninsured and can't get proper health care, researchers report in a landmark study released Tuesday.

The 193-page report, "Care Without Coverage: Too Little, Too Late," examines the plight of 30 million — one in seven — working-age Americans whose employers don't provide insurance and who don't qualify for government medical care.

About 10 million children lack insurance; elderly Americans are covered by Medicare.

snip

The report documents the immense consequence of having 40 million uninsured people out there," says Ray Werntz, a consumer health expert with the Employee Benefit Research Institute. "We need to elevate the problem in the national conscience."

[Nite Owl]

8. The right wing

Culture of Death. They are always what they say they aren't.

[oscar111]

10. 24 nations outlive us: UN rates health system 37th, pop. health at 72 nd

WORLD HEALTH REPORT 2OOO
fm UN, for last two stats:
{as to "pop", that means "population health status", 72 nd. }
===============
the longevity stat is recent, i forget the source. Should be all over the web.

Our nation's group of doctors is overrun with greedheads. Dr. Senator Frist is typical. Flat zero ADA rating one year.

to get the greedheads out, nationalize all four corners of health, and cap salaries. There is NO other way to root out the greedheads. Unless you know of any other way - i dont. The rodent greedheads will flee to payday loan shacks on the sleazy side of town where they will skin the desperate poor in other ways.

4 corners:
drs
hospitals/nursing homes
insurance
Big Pill

leave none private or you will see a repeat of big pill's skyrocketing of prices over the following years.

Dont settle for wimpy nationalizing of only insurance {single payer is what that was called}. You do not want a clone of Sen Frist at your bedside delivering "sloppy with a snarl" care, then giving you headaches with a bill padded in twenty places.

Next time you are sick and weak, ask yourself "would i get weaker if i also had to right now squabble with a medical bill collector who wants to leave me without enough to pay the rent.. resulting in me becoming homeless in addition to being still sick?" Medical bills by themselves, kill the sick.

N. Zealand has/had? a 24/7 free phone line you could call to ask a real dr for advice. Some european nations have/had? real dr's ride the ambulances, and ambulances "orbit" on patrol, to be closer to any accident.. dr's doing housecalls, naturally.. ER's staffed only by full dr's, not student beginner interns up for 5O hours no sleep,... free pills.

Such things are possible when a nation's wealth goes to the middle class's health. Not to CEO Kozlowski 2 million dollar birthday parties with vodka flowing from a certain male opening in an ice statue.

[charlyvi]

11. I wouldn't be surprised to see the life span of Americans

go down because of shrub's cuts in Medicaid, Medicare. After all, the free market decides, right. If you have money, you live as long as the money can pay for healthcare. If you don't have money, fuck you.

:sarcasm:

[Lars39]

19. IIRC, there was an article not too long ago stating

that for the first time in X years,the life span of US citizens hasn't increased. :(

[caledesi]

23. Tin Foil Hat here says that this is the "final solution" for the

baby-boomers who, in their distorted opinion, will be a drain on society.

[maveric]

25. "Thinning out the herd". "Decreasing the Surplus population"?

I have my tinfoil hat on about AIDS too. I wont go there now though.
Another time.

[charlyvi]

26. Letting the market decide

And you know how well the market decides for the poor!:sarcasm:

[caledesi]

31. AIDS? Oh sure, what a great way to "thin the herd." Just do NOTHING! nt

[FizzFuzz]

16. I'd love to see that report

Frist=flat Zero ADA rating.

Do you have a link? God I hate that guy

[oscar111]

22. oscar's sources

frist.. i got from the ADA site
NOTE: he was not zero every year, usually a bit above zero, but one year he did fall face down in the mud: a ZERO. What sort of subhuman has such a low attitude?

=========================
the UN report, fm the UN natch,

alas, no link handy now for either.

the report is word for word title, so shd be googleable.

PS oddlly the Ada doesnt call them "ratings" but some other odd term, and is hard to ffind their list of ratings. Look hard on the homepage.
something like Yearly Review of Congresspeople or somesuch. Dummies LOL. Luv them anyhow.

[DS1]

7. That part I don't understand is...

They agreed to take 25k upfront and 25k post-op because he didn't have insurance, then they found out he didn't have insurance so they want it all upfront, but since when did any insurance pay money upfront in the first place? I don't get it. I donated, but I don't get it.

[Bluebear]

9. I donated and don't get it either

Aren't there any rich Dem Senators, for instance, who could just guarantee the money?

[DS1]

14. Well that's beside the point

First it was JH won't treat him because he doesn't have insurance so they'll take half upfront and half afterwards

Now it's JH won't treat him because they just found out he doesn't have insurance and now want 100% upfront.

At least that's how I'm reading this. I will admit the threads have been a bit convoluted due to timing and size.

[EFerrari]

15. It's actually very simple. I made the agreement with the doc's

office who then failed to communicate with the finance office at the hospital.

We will work it out, I know we will.

fyi,
Beth

[DS1]

17. Ok. Simple works.

BTW, I've talked with another donator, and we've both agreed that if Andy doesn't get the surgery he needs, he's welcome to use our donations and spend the rest of his time as he chooses - have the best possible time and all that

[EFerrari]

30. He'll get the surgery. Watch.

:hi:

[Robbien]

18. Thanks Beth for all your hard work on this

:grouphug:
:yourock:

[GardeningGal]

12. Flyarm posted the reason on an earlier thread.

I'm posting again for those that may have missed it.

-----------------------

From flyarm:

371. no dear..

we have broken all protocol to get andy in with this dr and in this possible test program going on,,,under no circumstances would he have qualified without insurance..we broke the protocol and the proceedures through a back door..please get mad at our government not the hospital..and not the care andy will get this dr has a 5x success rate above any other in the world..
thisis a very expensive surgery and a very expensive after treatment if andy qualifies and we wont know that until during or after surgery..so please put you anger where it should be..with your government and those who are unwilling to see to it that every american has coverage!

we went through every back door to get andy in under no circiumstances would he have gotten in if they knew he didnt have insurance..and through ommission on my part of not telling the man who got andy in that andy didnt have insurance ..if that fact had been known the answer would have been no..so through omission i lied...and now my husbands boss is very angry as his reputation is now on the line..and he may never trust me again to get anyone else into JH....now the man is angry , as no one gets into this program period without insurance ..period!!

and i have another friend who left fla yesterday to go to JH with a double cancerous brain tumor..terminal...so please do not blame the hospital..its our government that you need to direct your anger at..no american should have to face this..
but andy will have the best care known to man..and dr's and nurses have to be paid..and medication that is very expensive has to be given..and this is a very tough surgery..

lets put our energy into getting andy the surgery and afterwards..then lets allgo fight our congress people and seantors..and fight like hell..but this hospital is not at fault..

andy was original scheduled for june 2nd..when the dr saw his records he moved it up..so it left little time to do anything but get the money together for him,..
i knew it was going to be a problem..but he has the best surgeon in the world..who has the best success ratio..of helping andy be cancer free..please lets count those blessings...and fight to get equality for all after this...
there is a posibility andy may get into the test program that is showing remarkable success.it all depends on what the dr finds when they go in...
so please lets all take BREATH AND PRAY FOR POSITIVE RESULTS OF THE SURGERY .. and lets pray that soon andy is cancer free!

and remember we went over and above protocol and proceedures of JH just to get andy in...and that was before they knew he didnt have insurance...the no insurance is just another hurdle but getting him into this dr was the biggest hurdle!!

he has a chance to get the best care available in the world with this doctor...lets count those blessings!!

fly

[salvorhardin]

21. This is awful

we have broken all protocol to get andy in with this dr and in this possible test program going on

This is a test program? So, they want Andy to pay $50,000 to be a guinea pig?

I don't care what the hospital says, this is not right.

I'm not saying the statement is incorrect, and I may be misinterpreting flyarm's post, but this is simply atrocioous no matter.

[Princess Turandot]

33. I think she means a post-operative experimental treatment program..

the $50,000 is for the surgery itself. He's getting a type of difficult surgery done called a'whipple' which few surgeons can do. I think they also pulled strings to get him into an experimental program afterwards, for post-surgical treatment, without going thru the normal evaluation they do for those types of research programs. Pancreatic cancer is a very very difficult condition to treat. If they can do surgery to remove the tumor, they still need follow-up treatment. Usually, if you participate in a research protocol, you are not charged anything, altho I don't know if that is the case here.

As flyarm said, blame the government, not the hospitals. They cannot mint money to pay their employees.

[Horse with no Name]

36. Quite a few hospitals perform the Whipple

I have taken care of quite a few patients who have had the procedure.
However, from what I can gather, this particular doc does some variation of the original procedure--with supposedly better results.
If for some reason, JH doesn't come through, I would recommend Northwestern very highly for this procedure. The docs there have published on it and have a high success rate.
The surgeons that I worked with do a wonderful job, but I wouldn't recommend anyone in Texas without insurance enter the hospital for a surgery that has a high rate of complications.
They will just unplug you when the cash runs out.

[salvorhardin]

39. Thanks for the clarification n/t

[merh]

40. See post 15 GardeningGal.

sfexpat2000 has been the one talking with the doctor's office about the finances. She is convinced he will get the surgery. This will all work out. Keep the faith.

:hug: :loveya: I DU Believe! :loveya: :hug:

:patriot: NEVER GIVE UP! :patriot:

DUERS :yourock:

[tblue37]

13. $41,000+ (eom)

[oscar111]

20. I see also, human relationships being stressed

in a wide ripple effect by the insane private system.

the re two or so above this one.. seems to be from andy's wife... details the ripples that are stressing a boss, a dr, .. who know how many eventually?

all because of a lack of national health insurance.

this cost isnt even counted in the tally of deaths noted about ten re's above this one.

[WillyT]

24. I Had A Similar Experience...

A buddy of mine was stricken with a brain tumor and had no insurance. I was living in the village of Mendocino on the northern California coast, and it was a very tight knit, and totally enlighten community. When we heard he was sick, and didn't have any money to do much about it, we set up several fundraiser around the community very quickly. In no time we had about $12,000 gathered, so we put him on a plane for some center in Houston to get his treatment.

When he got there with his $12,000 plus, they told him he was $3,000 short, and that his trip had been a waste of time.

Now we knew that the $12,000 wasn't gonna cover the entire treatment, but we had initially been told that they would take him in with $12,000, as long as we could guarantee covering the rest. We did, but somewhere along the line, after he was already in the air, some mother fucker changed their mind, and tried to turn him around and send him back to us to die.

We told our friend to stay put, we reached even deeper, and sent the rest of the money along. Not before tearing the Houston blood-suckers a couple of new ones, however.

We managed to help extend our friend's life by a couple of years or more, which was good, but when you get up close and personal to the monied decision making when in comes to matters of life and death in this country, you get one creeped out feeling about America and its people.

They get away with this because it happens one person, one family at a time. And those people and families are so shocked and taken aback, they don't have the heart sometimes to fight. Or they think if they make a stink, nobody will aver turn around and help them.

We need to, if there isn't one already, set up a site with all the tragic stories that happen to sick and injured people every day here. I don't care if individually they are anecdotal. Together, they paint a picture of America that our fathers and grandfathers would not recognize.

:shrug:

[oscar111]

29. Other nations: 24/7 free phone line to real dr, housecalls, etc

oscar just added paragraphs to his re number ten, pls go up and look at it for more info.

[oscar111]

32. moved by oscar

,,,

[AzDar]

38. You Are SOOOO Right...about the shock and despair creeping over

people one family at a time. Whether it's someone you love becoming ill,and not being able to afford treatment, or a young life being needlessly lost in Iraq, THAT is how this cabal of criminals has gotten away with killing off the American Dream:one piece(life)at at a time! Who notices??

edited for the anomalous smiley (wtf?) in my post.

[LifeDuringWartime]

27. disgusting

is it possible to get insurance from a foreign nation? canada, france, etc

[maveric]

28. Would facilities even honor them?

Hell, its ilegal to get meds from Canada or Mexico.

[jim3775]

34. America needs a Tommy Douglas

Who would have thought that a scottish baptist minister would fight his entire life for social welfare, universal medicare, old age pensions and mothers' allowances.

Link:Tommy Douglas and the NDP

[brook]

35. We should...

draft his grandson!

[oscar111]

37. Call them "biology majors" not dr's.: Dr. an innacurate term from 1800's

first of all,
they are academically NOT doctors.

academic tradition is that one must do original research to be a PhD in any field, eg physics.

our medics dont. They just memorize a lot.

this misnomer of calling them doctors is an honorific term dating from the eighteen hundreds.. much like the practce of calling all band leaders "professor" in the first half of the twentieth century.

In your own head, to demystify them, it helps to call them "biology majors". They are usually just greedheads who decided to major in biology for the money.

Dont the British have some other term.. Clinicians?

[Moderator]

41. Locking.

A current thread encouraging member support, with donation information for Andy's health care costs is here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3616578&mesg_id=3616578

With all due respect to this thread's intentions, it seems that Andy ought to have the say on whether his medical case is used as a rallying point for health care reform. And if so, how. He seems eminently capable of doing so, should he choose. We would like to defer that choice to Mr. Stephenson.

Thanks for your consideration,
DU Mod