I'm ranting, raving, screaming, out of control pissed.

[yella_dawg]

Enough already. This shit has gone far enough. Memos, fake memos. Who the hell cares!!!?

This excerpt is from a letter from PNAC to Clinton: "Our ability to ensure that Saddam Hussein is not producing weapons of mass destruction, therefore, has substantially diminished. Even if full inspections were eventually to resume, which now seems highly unlikely, experience has shown that it is difficult if not impossible to monitor Iraq’s chemical and biological weapons production." Read the whole letter here: http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm


I was lead software engineer on a major systems upgrade to the U2 spy plane during the 90`s. I have limited knowledge of the capabilities and mission parameters of the U2 DragonLady. I can legally discuss almost nothing that I do know.

But one thing I'm just goddamned sure of is that throughout the 90's, we knew where Saddam bought his underwear, how many pairs he had, and what color they were. We knew where he lost his swiss army knife. We knew where he lost the hubcap off his custom Land Rover. We knew where all the interesting rocks were in Iraq. We fuckin' knew when Saddam ducked out to the corner store for a creme soda.

For TEN YEARS, we fuckin' knew everything of even remote interest that went on in Iraq. EVERYTHING!!!

So fuck anyone and everyone who says different. The vast majority of them can't even claim to be idiots. They're liars, plain and simple, and it's time someone called them on it.


Assholes!

[blogbear]

1. Yep and I would only add one additional adjective..MURDERING liars..

[hector459]

2. Our nation is not our own.

It's a sad, sad situation.

[beyurslf]

3. Why is LIAR a dirty word in politics? If you LIE then you are a LIAR!

[Taxloss]

4. On February 15 2003, in the UK, we tried, we really tried.

The largest street protest in British history, more than a million people, calling the government liars to their faces. It failed.

[Cleita]

5. They are arrogant and seem to think they can ignore the will

of the people who put them in power. When will we, the people, take them down?

[Taxloss]

7. We struck a blow on Thursday, here.

We will se how effective that will end up being. The signals are mixed right now.

[alfredo]

6. I know what you are saying. I was in the "business" in that part of the

world. I agree that there was no way that he could have rebuilt his WMD's without us knowing.

That "mobile weapons lab" was a total scam. Hussein bought that helium equipment from
Britain. We knew what it was from day one.

[yella_dawg]

8. Half the idiots that are cheering Bush on

probably rush out to buy the new "Janes" to drool on while they munch Fritos on the couch. They KNOW what modern surveillance is capable of. But somehow they don't make the connection that just maybe somebody might have thought of using airborne surveillance to check up on what was going on behind the inspectors' backs.

I truly hate the stupid.

[alfredo]

18. My old spook friends are making the connection and have turned

against the bush junta.

The Blair memo could wake up some people. We need to be on the media's ass on this. It needs to be out there.

[yella_dawg]

20. I just wonder how many spooks are in the same boat I'm in?

I'm not willing to "tell tales" because some of the things I know really are important to national security. The best way to deal with it is just keep my mouth shut. Even what I've said here is pushing a little. I got a bit of a shock when I went to the net to dig into the "published" data on the U2, and didn't find squat.

For all my rage and disgust, I keep these secrets because deep down, I don't want to hurt my country. The spooks who really do know stuff must be in a lot tougher bind.

[alfredo]

28. Best keep it to yourself. No matter how bad our leaders, you have to

keep your honor. You gave your word, and a man or woman keeps their word. That's what separates you from bush and cheney.


One voice coming out with specifics can be silenced. Keep your cool.

[hootinholler]

29. It's a fine line.

On the one hand there are people like Sibel who are gagged, on the other there are people who know things that we the people should know who cannot reveal them honorably.

I was never a spook, but I did hold a clearance. I have to ask how bad does it have to get before we no longer have a nation to protect? We appear to have a very different nation than the one we had when I swore to protect the Constitution against all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC.

Upon that single oath for every sworn government operative, lays the foundation. When your duty to protect information impinges on that oath, you are duty bound to reveal that part which is impinging. So now many are caught up in an ethical catch 22, trying to inform without making a revelation.

To compound this there is no oversight body to which these issues can be taken. No independent one at least.

I wish I had real advice. Hard spot, meet rock.

-Hoot

[alfredo]

30. My first duty is to my family. Most of what I knew was very

complicated. Very little was of any use to anyone.
If I had brought up the USS Liberty, I would have broken my oath, broken the law, and would have been branded an Anti Semite. Even though it is declassified I am conflicted over speaking of it.

What purpose would it serve to speak up? What good would it do when the American public really don't give a shit about what crimes against humanity the US commits in their name.

all it would have gotten me was 10 and 10.

Anyway

Americans only get outraged over blow jobs.

[alfredo]

31. BTW, spooks are fucking nuts

we go crazy holding all that shit in.

I was called the poster child for PTSD and I am in a lot better shape than many I know.

[BeFree]

9. Don't I feel better?

Not.

Geez, they are getting away with it. Well, they will only be more emboldened to tell another whopper, and another, and....
They will come to a nasty end, but will they take us down with them? That is the question.

[many a good man]

10. Should we believe you?

Nuthin' personal but lots of people wanted Saddam dead. With or without 911 offing the sonofabitch would have accomplished a lot of goals at much smaller cost than we are paying today. I need more proof before I can believe your assertion.

[yella_dawg]

16. Don't know what to tell you.

Sure as hell aren't any links to sites that will back me up.

What was it, 1999 when Iraq fired on a U2? (My baby worked great, fried a previously unknown missile!) That supports my supposition that the U2 was there. So does http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=5975

Actually, I was surprised there was so little available about the DragonLady on the net. Weird.

[alfredo]

21. Read Bamford's "Body of Secrets." It will back up his

assertions that we knew a lot more than we are able or willing to say.

The secrecy around our capabilities made it easy for bush to make false assertions, and then blame the intelligence community when the truth came out.

[stevedeshazer]

11. Excellent rant

Thanks for sharing that perspective. I'm pissed, too.

[FreedomAngel82]

12. I know how you feel

Nobody is outraged enough and nobody is doing a damn thing about it.

[anarchy1999]

13. Beautiful, just beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing, what an

excellent rant!

Bet it felt good to get it off your chest.

[paparush]

14. I made this same argument..

to lots of people in my hometown.

Iraq was contained. Totally contained. Their military was seriously depleted from the 1st Gulf War. The sanctions had weakened (killed) the population. The no fly zone (ie- daily bombing runs not covered by the MSM) was keeping the military from reconstituting. We had the best electronic assets (sattelitess) and human asseets (spies) to provide a non stop stream of data. In short, Iraq was completely contained and in no way constituted a threat to the US or our allies.

[Sparkly]

15. Chimpy's plans were well known, too.

It was just writing on the wall. In 2000, when I was posting on AOL boards (yeah, I know, don't tell me) I repeated many, many times over: "If Bush is elected, we will be at war in the middle east before his term is over, and probably with Iraq. Mark my words."

I also warned them about terrorism.

I also warned them he'd give away the surplus and run us right back into deficits.

I'm the freakin' Nostradamus of the AOL boards, and I have NO special inside knowledge whatsoever.

As you say, we were already dealing with Saddam, and if more needed to be done, there were MANY other options besides BushCo's invasion.

[yella_dawg]

17. You know what's sad?

My main aversion to the Chimp, other than hatred he earned as Governor of Texas, was that he'd be able to appoint so many judges, and he'd give Microsoft a walk on the anti-trust suit.

My god how I wish that was the worst he'd done as pResident.

[Sparkly]

19. I hear you.

And you were right about the judges. That is still a HUGE danger.

[anarchy1999]

24. I said it to my husband when I saw Bush's cabinet and still trying to

get over the "selection" by the "Supremes". I looked at him and said, we are going to war. Silly me, I thought Columbia would be first. Damn. I didn't know about the PNAC'ers at that time. Soon found out.

You're not the "Nostradamus of the AOL boards", but I'll give you some cred. Lots of us "knew" it we just could not get anyone to listen. We were all "Chicken Little's", "the sky is falling" and not listened to.

[Swamp Rat]

22. Wait 'til Dumbya orders the use of RNEPs in Iran...

[Straight Shooter]

23. As usual, there is a fake memo. As usual, who planted it?

If you former spooks and current spooks want to do something for this country, and I know you're itching, send a message to Rove in language he'll understand.

Other than that, my lips are sealed.

[NVMojo]

25. I still remember the anger I felt when I first found the PNAC website

and read that letter to Clinton ...and that was over 8 months before we invaded Iraq ....

[Pepperbelly]

26. what yella dawg said!

:toast:

[moondust]

27. Iraq's neighbors weren't concerned.

And with spies and informants for the U.S. in Saudi Arabia and Jordan and elsewhere in the ME as well as collaboration with Mossad, etc., the U.S. would have undoubtedly known if Saddam was trying to re-arm or build up his WMD programs during those ten years. He had to buy materials someplace. Not to mention the satellites and spy planes and vast communication intercept capabilities.

The BFEE knew. They lied. Iraq had been on their agenda ever since Poppy "didn't finish the job." With troops already in Afghanistan and logistics set up for the region they likely figured it would be an opportune time to "finish the job," which they assumed would be a cakewalk that could be done on the cheap and require only minimal planning.

[K-W]

32. I think that is partly true,

we certainly would have known if he was militarizing significantly. We did not however know where he was at all times, or he would have been killed long ago. We tried to have him assassinated, we then tried to assisanate him with bombs. The invasion was neccessary because for all our technology we did not have many assets in Iraq outside of the kurds and Saddam ran a pretty tight ship.

I really cant imagine the US wouldnt have rather just changed regimes in Iraq behind the scenes when Saddam started getting uncooperative.