So, Andrew Sullivan is vociferously anti-Bush now.

[Maven]

Did anyone see him on Real Time last night?

I guess you see things differently now that you're editing TNR, huh Andy?

[MissWaverly]

1. OMG

and I sent him such an e-mail after the election, when he said let's put the election behind us, and unite as Americans for another 4 years. I said the end does not justify the means. I can't believe
he's become anti-Bush, there is truly hope for this country.

[Maven]

3. I didn't know whether to be stunned or what.

He kept going on about how the Republican party is in the hands of extremist wackos who want to control your body and how Americans need to "stand up" to them.

:wtf:

[MissWaverly]

7. Could it be that the dems getting kicked out of church woke USA

Could they have finally gone TOO far, people are waking up and saying what is going on, where's our freedom?

[POAS]

13. I was so stunned

I still can't close my mouth.

As another poster said, maybe there is hope.

[dannynyc]

2. Yup - I saw him

I was absolutely shocked at his performance - he actually made several good points!

I thought the best part of the show was the interview with Madeleine Albright. She gave Bill a great smack down on the subject of Iraq. Bill Maher's been on a thing about "although we were lied to when going into Iraq, it may turn out for the best" . . . spreading democracy, etc. When he asked Madeleine Albright about her view of Iraq, she simply said, <paraphrasing> "I'm glad Saddam Hussein is gone, but, I don't know of any country that wants to look like Iraq right now."

[Maven]

4. I KNOW

She was amazing.

It's always sad when she or Janet Reno speaks about an issue and you get to see the kind of leaders we USED to have.

[jasmeel]

9. Go Madeline! I haven't watched Maher since he started that

rant about Iraq is all great now. Does he look at anything besides the MSM?

[Beelzebud]

11. I know what you mean...

I watched it again this week. And with the upswing in violence that has been going on in Iraq did Bill even mention the situation in Iraq? NO.

It's sad when Andrew Sullivan seems to have more sense than Bill Maher...

[FreedomAngel82]

14. I thought that was great!

I liked her on there and the show was pretty good. The actor guy (I recognize him from somewhere) was funny too and I did agree with Sulivan on a few points. Especially dealing with religion as a religious person. I can't wait till next week with Al Franken. :D

[Maven]

15. Who cares about Al Franken

Gore Vidal is going to be on!

:bounce:

[neverenoughtinfoil]

5. so what

Where the fuck was his brain the last four years? fuck him.

[MissWaverly]

8. better late than never

there's one less spouting the mantra, Republicans are good, Bush is always right, Democrats and liberals are a threat to America

[gulfcoastliberal]

28. Whatever

He will go back to backing his man in no time. When Bush proposed the marriage amendment, Andy threw a hissy fit but then got back on board after venting. He is in love with Bush.

[MissWaverly]

30. Don't think so

I think Republicans are starting to smart from the economic policies of GWB, I think the MSM are nervous, they realize that
the American people are fed up, they too could have pies and salad dressing thrown at them.

[gulfcoastliberal]

31. I honestly hope you're right... NT

[Pushed To The Left]

34. Sullivan did not support Bush in

the 2004 elections due to his anti-LBGT actions.

[MissWaverly]

35. well he sure supported him afterwards

with his the best man won comments

[newyawker99]

41. Hi neverenoughtinfoil!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[pscot]

6. Being on TNR's masthead

is no guarantee of sanity. But Sullivan does seem to have seen the light. Welcome aboard, Andy.

[pretzel4gore]

10. oh please...

that pig belongs in jail, on death row....for treason. period

[Beelzebud]

12. Did anyone catch Bill wondering where is "regular" audience was?

A few of his "liberal-friendly" jokes kinda bombed last night, and at one point Bill said something like "What happened to my regular audience?"...

Well Bill. Maybe you ran them off with that month long conservative orgy your show became. Maybe telling them to shut-up every week when they would applaud you and some of your guests ran them off. Maybe begging for conservatives to come out to the show ran them off. Maybe having Joe Scarbourough sit there and ridicule you, and your viewers, ran them off.

Bill. Maybe YOU ran them off...

[Maven]

16. I caught that.

You notice he changed his tune a bit this week.

[Toucano]

40. Nah, the jokes that bombed were weak.

Politics had nothing to do with it.

[cybildisobedience]

42. excellent points

thought the same thing...

[Hamlette]

17. Sullivan was a shocker, he's been unhappy with the right over certain

issues over the last few years...first, or at least most notably, gay marriage then the torture scandal which started to turn him against the war.

After last night's show you have to wonder if he's come all the way over to our side.

I keep wondering what does the GOP stand for anymore? My dad was GOP until Reagan who caused him to take a hard left turn. He stood for a strong military but only as a deterrant, a small government in the sense of the government staying out of our lives and no government debt. How can you argue with that?

The party lines are blurring. Sullivan is another prime example. He seems to be unable to support his party's social agenda.

I don't think it was the church turning away dems that got their attention. Sullivan mentioned Schiavo. I thought the Schiavo case would drop off the radar screens as soon as cable TV found some other cause (runaway brides?) but it might prove to have had some staying power. As well it should.

[stanwyck]

22. This fuels my anger towards conservatives

though I know I should be concilatory. I know so many people who consider themselves conservatives and who vote for Republicans. Yet, when questioned on the issues, they're more aligned with liberals. Except for "fiscal matters" (?) and defense. So...where does that leave the Bush regime? Their "fiscal matters" are such a travesty, they won't let us know how much Iraq is costing. The deficit is now scaring even The Washington Times, which ran a doom and gloom editorial yesterday critical of, gasp, The Bushies. And The Washington Times usually rubber stamps the Bush talking points. And defense? Well, we haven't been attacked. That's it. Bush is wonderful because we haven't been attacked. No discussion of why and how we were attacked on 9-11 or what our current campaign in the Mideast could yield.
I'm just tired of people who say they care about health care, education, the environment, human rights, and what the Constitution means to our country...who then turn around and vote for conservatives.
I'd like to trust the sea change Sullivan seems to have undergone. But I just see him as the political animal he so bitterly hated in Clinton.
Sullivan has done much damage. Maybe he can atone. Redemption is always possible.

[Hamlette]

25. probably no more damage than Maher supporting Nader in 2000

it pisses me off too but. . .

when my dad finally saw the light he went left so fast and so far it was great. He went into what looked like a mild 2 year depression. When he came out the other side he was very liberal. Looking back on it I think the "depression" was just him re-evaluating his whole life. He worked in a civilian military connected job. They lived in Scotland for 5 years. Near the end of their time there they went someplace on the coast for a drive and saw a military base completely enclosed with barbed wire in the middle of beautiful scenery. Mom says when they got back in the car neither of them spoke on the drive back to their house. They returned to the US and were "stationed" in Sunnyvale CA and lived in San Jose. They got home the week of the Jim Jones suicides. It was a welcome home culture shock for them. Then Reagan started talking limited nuclear war and he fell silent. He'd voted for Reagan. It was the last republican he voted for.

Anyway (excuse the self absorbed story) I'm thinking Reagan's limited war was my dad's "tipping point." Maybe Schiavo was Sullivan's. We should welcome them all and even think about adopting some of the ideas that made them GOP like responsible government spending and keeping government out of private lives. I'm even less adamantly opposed to a strong military, its just when you get a nut job like Bush in power they use it aggressively instead as the deterrant it should be.

[Pushed To The Left]

36. My dad's tipping point

was the Lewinski/impeachment scandal. He is still a Republican, but now supports Democratic candidates. He even wrote a letter to the editor in 1998 explaining why he voted for a straight Democratic ticket! My mom is still pretty conservative, but she voted a straight Democratic ticket in 2004! The war in Iraq and the religious right are what turned her off to the Republicans this time around.

[yorkiemommie1]

37. you just described my husband

i think he's afraid to vote his conscience... which would be more aligned w/ Dems. i also think way down deep he's rebelling against his Dem family. sad because he's 66 yrs old.

[charlyvi]

39. I really don't think Sullivan considers this regime

conservative. Which they definitely are NOT. The only thing they have done conservative-wise is lower taxes, but they have not reduced spending. Sullivan is a conservative in the old sense. He really has nothing in common with this administration, a fact which he slowly began to realize.

[booley]

18. Maybe Sullivan just connected the dots...

he's human. Humans are biological beings. Biological beings have a drive for self preservation.

Sullivan might have finally figured out that whatever a government can do to somebody and get away with... it can can do to ANYBODY and get away with. Including it's own citizens.

And the Shrubbery is rabidly anti-gay. And Sullivan is gay.

[misanthrope]

19. Harumph...

...Don't trust Andrew Sullivan.

For him, it's all about one thing: his penis. He just doesn't like the GOP's views on what he chooses to do with his genitalia. Other than that, he's on the right wing bandwagon, big time.

He trotted out this same dog-and-pony show through the first half of the election year, but when push came to shove and the autumn rolled around, he was firmly strapped in on the Dubya train.

He is all for the War in Iraq and the way it was handled. He railed on Democrats and liberals for their attitudes toward the "red staters," attitudes that he seems to be strangely embracing now that Dub has been safely restored to power.

Sullivan needs to carry a hand mirror with him on television so he can gaze upon all of his loved ones for inspiration.

[SmokingJacket]

24. I won't be starting a Sullivan fan club yet, either...

but I'm glad Bush has one less voice in his choir.

[kodi]

20. andy's just pissed bush jerked off that horse instead of him

sullivan is still a dissembler for the right and an apologist for their methods

[maveric]

21. He's realized that "Log Cabin" repubs are no longer welcome.

And that the passive Krystallnacht has begun.

[SmokingJacket]

23. This is great news!

I always thought he was smart and a good writer -- it pissed me off that his opinions were so vile!

Now he's changed them... at least some of them!

:woohoo:

[charlyvi]

26. He is vehemently against the torture we've been doing...

Since the story broke, he's been outraged that no one high up in the administration has been held responsible. That, in addition to fundie anti-gay stance has him rethinking his worship of shrub. His blog has been pounding the shrub administration on these two issues for MONTHS now. The problem is, he's a true conservative (small govt. big military, low taxes) and, to use raygun's famous phrase "the party left me", or in this case, him. He's still a dick, though IMO.

[Zhade]

27. He's STILL a friggin' Aunt Tom.

NT!

[Just Me]

29. I caught the show late....was wondering WTF!

I'm not familiar with AS. I got a "gist" that he was conservative,...but, DAMN,...he was as vocal against Bush and the neocons and the fundies as I am.

:shrug:

[Warren DeMontague]

32. At what point do we get to tell these fucking asshats "I Told You So"

They: "fiscal" conservative Bush boosters

Us: People with their eyes open


Us: How can you support the GOP? They are in bed with Pat Robertson, they convocated their 2000 convention to "our lord and savior, Jesus Christ", the Texas GOP platform calls for a "Christian Nation", etc. etc.

They: Oh, that's just a lot of noise to get the base excited. Means nothing.

Us: Okay, well, they seem pretty serious about the agenda.

They: No, it's all for show.

Fast forward a few years...

They: Wow! Crazy right-wing fundamentalists are in control of the party--- and they are for real!

Us: No shit, Sherlock.

[Pushed To The Left]

33. He kicked some ass last night!

Everybody who opposes the religious right needs to band together, because they are in power right now. I'd love to see Andrew Sullivan and Bernie Sanders join the Democratic Party.

[Gin]

38. Harvey Korman...you were great on the Carol Burnett show!

g

[Tactical Progressive]

43. Sullivan basically called Democrats traitors

for years.

He has a long, long way back. Five years of take-no-prisoners anti-Republicanism at a minimum as far as I'm concerned. I won't accept him in for anything less.

I don't think he can do it.