Bush just said that the United States defeated Nazism.

[chieftain]

a report on MSNBC. It is impossible to tell whether it is just ignorance of the role that all of the Allies played in WWII or whether it is an intentional rewrite of history to diminish the importance of multilateralism. To not credit the role of the united nations in ridding the world of the scourge of Nazism as we celebrate the anniversary of VE Day is appalling whether intentional or just plain stupid. I know everyone here knows it but, he is such an embarrassment.

[Sandpiper]

1. Actually the Russian Commies

Had as much if not more to do with that than we did.

Not to say we didn't play a significant part, I just think it's funny how we've effectively written the Red Army out of WWII history in this country.

[MrModerate]

4. Not to mention that they (and the Chinese) did most of the dying. n/t

[bennywhale]

12. Another argument he could use

is you're either with us or you're with the terrorists.

If churchill had said that America would have been a Nazi supporter for three years.

Shoulder to shoulder with our allies America was not

[EC]

20. Not just America

America's elite, along with the Bush family...

[zippy890]

59. 25.5 million Soviet people died in WWII

our country has no conception of the sacrifices they made during that war. This is of enormous importance to them - bush better be careful about spouting off his big stupid mouth over there--

--unless bushco WANTS to start the cold war back up again for who knows what stupid reason.

[Lone_Wolf]

64. Also, the US gov't employed many former Nazis after WWII

Funny how Bush doesn't mention that part of history either....

[Sandpiper]

65. If not for former Nazi Scientists

We wouldn't have had a space program.

[Lone_Wolf]

66. I am more concerned with the use of outright war criminals

to destabilize left leaning governments around the world...


"Nazis in the CIA closet:
The Origins of Fascism
in the United States

By Christian Dewar



"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster."
-- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

The events of September 11th have served as a disconnect for many Americans who wonder why it is that some people hate this country enough to perpetrate such a horrendous act of terrorism on against a democratic country. The Statue of Liberty beckons the world's citizens to our shores. The inscription on this monument by Emma Lazarus reads:

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breath free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shores, Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

George W. Bush says that the terrorists envy and hate this country because we are a freedom loving democracy. Simplistic, disingenuous and inane as an explanation, those who do try to answer the question, 'Why do they hate us?' are criticized as unpatriotic. They are accused of 'Blaming America First'. Organizations with very close ties to this administrations such as Lynne Cheney's American Council of Trustees and Alumni, and the Americans for Victory Over Terrorism are denouncing academics who have dared to address this burning question. Yet, it would be a disservice to hide our heads in the sand and ignore the terrorist's rationale for such horrendous attacks. The truth is that America hasn't always been a good citizen of the world. Our country has intervened in many countries to overthrow democracies and subvert the will of the people. We have established and supported dictatorships and built armies to maintain totalitarian governments in office. Even a cursory examination of the United State's involvement in such countries as Iran, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Indonesia, Zaire, Angola, Nicaragua, Chile, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Panama, Guatemala, Grenada, Honduras and other countries will demonstrate that far from bringing democracy to the world, we have frequently destroyed it."

http://archive.democrats.com/view.cfm?id=9099

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flordehinojos]

2. more than an embarrassment, bush is a criminal jerk.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

29. He's probably going to thank the Balkans

For their contribution to baseball.


Bad monkey. Bad bad monkey.

[Walt Starr]

3. Man that WILL NOT play well in the world

There was a hell of a lot of different nations that paid more in blood to defeat the Nazis than we did.

[Sandpiper]

7. The Soviet Union had more casualties at Stalingrad

Than the U.S. did in the entire war in both theatres.

[Walt Starr]

15. And a lot more casualties elswhere during the war

than the U.S. did.

Country Military Civilian Total
U.S.S.R. 8,668,000 16,900,000 25,568,000
China 1,324,000 10,000,000 11,324,000
Germany 3,250,000 3,810,000 7,060,000
Poland 850,000 6,000,000 6,850,000
Japan 1,506,000 300,000 1,806,000
Yugoslavia 300,000 1,400,000 1,700,000
Rumania 520,000 465,000 985,000
France 340,000 470,000 810,000
Austria 380,000 145,000 525,000
Hungary 200,000 290,000 490,000
Greece 88,300 325,000 413,300
Italy 330,000 80,000 410,000
United Kingdom 326,000 62,000 388,000
USA 292,131 6,000 298,131
Netherlands 14,000 236,000 250,000
Czechoslovakia 10,000 215,000 225,000
Philippines 27,000 91,000 118,000
Belgium 10,000 75,000 85,000
Finland 82,000 2,000 84,000
Canada 37,476 37,476
India 36,000 36,000
Australia 29,000 29,000
Spain 12,000 10,000 22,000
Bulgaria 19,000 2,000 21,000
New Zealand 12,000 12,000
Norway 3,000 7,000 10,000
South Africa 9,000 9,000
U.K. Colonies 6,877 6,877
Denmark 2,000 1,800 3,800
Brazil 943 943
Totals:
18,684,727 40,892,800 59,577,527


Hell, Freeper assholes don't realize that the French had more military casualties than we did in WWII!

[demosincebirth]

5. United Nation was...

established in 1945 in SF


Bush is just ignorant of history or anything around him.

[rocktivity]

6. Well, he ought to know

After all, his grandpappy was there.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

18. I'm glad someone else is thinking the same thing I am.

:yourock:

[chieftain]

45. Thanks

[NoPasaran]

8. To be fair though, we did play some part in it

Together with the Poles, French, British, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans, Indians, New Foundlanders, Danes, Norwegians, Luxemburgers, Belgians, Greeks, Yugoslavs, Soviets, Italians, Brazilians, Romanians, and others.

[Dr Ron]

9. Let's screw around with Bush

Forget about including the contriubtions of other countries. Just try to tell him that WW II was won by a Democartic President, just like in WW I.

Most likely this will come as news to him.

[Double T]

10. Bush Is Constantly Rewriting History To Suit His Needs.......

.....None Of His History Is True

[bennywhale]

14. Hollywood has already

effectively rewritten the history of WW2.

In hundreds of years they'll look at the archives and think wow America did that all on its own, the Fench are cowards (a million dead), the Russians didn't do a lot (27 million dead), and who were those British guys (Fought for 3 years on their own)

[Double T]

32. How Right You Are !! And Hollywood Did The Same Thing To........

......The Native Americans, portraying them as brutal savages etc.

[bennywhale]

41. thats exactly right

it was like they were the invaders into America.

Also the Vietnamese. A more polite, and hospitable people you couldn't come across yet will go down in hollywood history as savage alien, evil psychopaths who attacked all american heroes for no reason

[TyeDye75]

55. Films may last for hundreds of years

but depleted Uranium has a half life of ....what? 4....5 billion years

Which will last longest

[chieftain]

46. You are right and I think that one of the most frightening aspects

of this regime is its ability to convince a large portion of the country that their bogus description of history is accurate or at least a respectable interpretation of it.There was a story in our newspaper last week about the precipitous decline in the teaching of history. It is not surprising that our young people don't know their history, they are not exposed to it. I deeply fear that we are going to fail Ben Franklin's admonition"It's a republic, now if we can keep it."

[lala_rawraw]

11. Wow, that

is even ignorant for him.

[bennywhale]

13. The British won It

The only free nation to stand up to Nazism.

Stood toe to toe with one of the most powerful war machines in history on its own for three years.

Without the Brits Nazism world wide

[geniph]

16. I see, we just wrote off the contributions and blood sacrifice

of the Anzacs, the British, the Poles, the Free French, the Soviets (who died by the millions fighting the Nazis), the Dutch, etc., etc., etc.

Way to win friends and influence people, Georgie. No wonder the rest of the world looks askance at us.

What a tool.

To the rest of the world: My apologies. He's not my fault. I didn't vote for his daddy, either.

[G_j]

17. World War II Fatalities

http://www.secondworldwar.co.uk/casualty.html



Country -Military -Civilian -Total

Soviet Union* 8,668,000 16,900,000 25,568,000
China 1,324,000 10,000,000 11,324,000
Germany 3,250,000 3,810,000 7,060,000
Poland 850,000 6,000,000 6,850,000
Japan 1,506,000 300,000 1,806,000
Yugoslavia 300,000 1,400,000 1,700,000
Rumania* 520,000 465,000 985,000
France* 340,000 470,000 810,000
Hungary* 750,000
Austria 380,000 145,000 525,000
Greece* 520,000
Italy 330,000 80,000 410,000
Czechoslovakia 400,000
Great Britain 326,000 62,000 388,000
USA 295,000 295,000
Holland 14,000 236,000 250,000
Belgium 10,000 75,000 85,000
Finland 79,000 79,000
Canada 42,000 42,000
India 36,000 *** 36,000
Australia 39,000 39,000
Spain** 12,000 10,000 22,000
Bulgaria 19,000 2,000 21,000
New Zealand 12,000 12,000
South Africa 9,000 9,000
Norway 5,000 5,000
Denmark 4,000 4,000

Total circa 61 Million
Notes:
1. The above table shows only deaths not wounded.
2. Figures are rounded to nearest 1000

[oscar111]

25. KILLED more germans- who did? A good measure

more german military, i mean.

seems the best measure to me.

anyone have stats on which nation killd most german troops?

[bennywhale]

42. At a guess its got to be

the Russians considering the Eastern front made the Western front look like a playground fight.

In terms of civilian deaths i would say either the British or Americans, what with firebombing dresden and all.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcibiades_mystery]

54. The Red Army was responsible for NINE out of TEN Wehrmacht casualties

A shocking statistic, but true.

[bennywhale]

44. No wonder the Europeans don't like war

, christ that's a lot of people, and not forgetting this thing was being fought through their back gardens and yards and in their streets and towns.

And thats not forgetting the millions from WW1

What are the casualities for WW1?

[G_j]

52. a very important point

to remember when Americans are pounding their chests and denigrating the losses and sacrifices of others.

[no safe haven]

75. "What are the casualities for WW1?"

Here you go, but doesn't include civilian deaths:

Military Casualties in World War I
1914-1918

Belgium 45,550
British Empire 942,135
France 1,368,000
Greece 23,098
Italy 680,000
Japan 1,344
Montenegro 3,000
Portugal 8,145
Romania 300,000
Russia 1,700,000
Serbia 45,000
United States 116,516
Austria-Hungary 1,200,000
Bulgaria 87,495
Germany 1,935,000
Ottoman Empire 725,000

Total = 9,179,283

[KoKo]

51. Thanks for posting the stats! eom

[d_b]

19. Sorry Shrub

You're still a Nazi. Nice try though.

[madrchsod]

21. well he has a point-BUT- his

cowboy swagger alienates the entire world. it was america`s -industrial power- that helped to defeat both the japanese and germans. it was the -blood- of countless millions in asia,america ,europe, middle east,africa and russia that actually defeated the germans and japanese. unfortunately there are millions of americans that agree with him.

[deutsey]

22. Did he say it wistfully and with regret?

[chieftain]

47. Nope, straight forward as if everyone knows this.

[DistressedAmerican]

23. Don't Know If We Defeated It. But, We Sure Did Bring It Back!

One of my earliest graphics. Crude but, true...

[Karenina]

31. Lookee here y'all

Murikkka exported the financing, tech support and even some of dem SICKO ideas, then after the HORROR that ensued IMPORTED the NAZIS who carried out the game plan. Installed 'em in OSS, got 'em new identities, shipped 'em "out of harm's way to Argentina and such. OOOOOHHH, the FAILURE of the Ami educational system... :SIGH:

[G_j]

35. I hear ya

and whose Grandpa was it that helped finance the Hitler war machine?
Not the very person flapping their big lying, ignorant mouth..nah

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Karenina]

82. You are "free"

to REFUSE to get it at your own peril. Good luck! :hi:

[warrens]

24. Ya mean he resigned?

Oh, damn, I had my hopes WAY too high. I was hoping he said, "alright United States, you defeated me and my pals. I'm taking Dick down into the bunker now. Seeya."

[oscar111]

28. MULTICAUSALITY: most things are multicausal, like ur body

ur body, two parents caused.

WWtwo end, multicausal.

best measure, i think, is how many germ. troops each ally killed/wounded-out-of-action.

[ComerPerro]

26. Yet, ironic as it may seem, here he is trying to promote the same thinking

How strange.

[htuttle]

27. We were taken over by Nazis after WWII, and never realized it

...until recently.

[theboss]

30. There was no United Nations then

I guess he should have said that we, the British, and 25 million dead Soviets defeated Nazism.

But I don't see the point in getting angry at politicians for spouting political cliches. It's like people who get angry when a politician says, "This is the greatest country in the world." It's really not a topic for debate.

I mean, when you tell your wife, "You look nice tonight," you may not mean it and you certainly don't want to parse the sentence.

[oscar111]

33. Wrong: cliches do great harm when lies

so i disagree esteemed collegue.

Politicos cannot say we are no. 1 if it is a harmful lie.. as with healthcare, it leads to deaths from complacency.

[theboss]

34. So, do you not vote?

Because EVERY politician says some variation of that sentence.

[bpilgrim]

37. he said "united nations" lower case

maybe he ment the united nations of france, england, russia, austrailia, canada, the u.s., etc

:shrug:

peace

[theboss]

40. Well, it was really just the US, England, Canada, and the USSR

I don't think Australians fought in the European theater, though I could be wrong. They did fight like hell in the Pacific of course.

And techincally, Canadians fought under the British flag, I believe.

And don't get me started on France. Parts of France were just a little too eager to embrace the Nazis.

[bennywhale]

43. Parts were yes but the French still fought like lions.

the rest fought like lions. hundreds of thousands of them were evacuated to England. Exiled from their country for 5 years fighting with a foreign army (the British) i call that bravery.

There were more French military deaths than American ones that is often forgotten, and you've got to remember the context. The French had WW1 fresh in their heads where more than 2 million me died that would equate to about 10 million in America's population.

For some it was. War never again at all costs even if that meant surrender.

[bpilgrim]

49. "Canadians fought under the British flag"

nations united, not an american centric universe is the point, it was a COLLECTIVE effort and THAT is what we should be celebrating.

and it doesn't matter what theater you were in, it was still the allies against the axis powers during WWII and MANY nations contributed including MANY brave french.

peace

[Spazito]

78. Canada did NOT fight under the British flag

Canada fought under it's own flag in WWII.

http://collections.ic.gc.ca/courage/canadasroleinwwii.html

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=history/secondwar/canada2/intro

[Wilber_Stool]

81. The Australians were sent to Europe

and India. It was the US that defended the South Pacific. Hence the bond between the two countries. The Australians lost more men per capita than anyone else in WWII.

[chieftain]

48. That's why I did not capitalize " united nations'. But

that was the name that the victorious Allies gave to their collective effort to eradicate war.
Whether your/my wife looks good tonight and whether we are the greatest nation on earth are matters of opinion. It is a matter of historical accuracy as to whether the US single handedly defeated Nazism. We should take seriously any attempt to obliterate the true picture of past great in order to support a counter point of view. I do however give him the out of just being ignorant. It is amazing, though, how often his spouting inaccuracies bolsters the snake oil that the rw is trying to sell the American people.

[KamaAina]

36. You forgot Britain

and the Evil Empire, er, um, Soviet Union.

:dunce:

[Ishoutandscream]

38. I'll say it again, The bastard slept through his history classes

And he's repeating the mistakes that he never studied.

[wurzel]

39. does anyone know what Bush actually said? n/t

[AP]

50. The UN didn't come to be until after the Nazis were gone. FDR stopped...

...fascism.

[TyeDye75]

56. The funny thing is

if you talk to vets.... no one mentions nationality, they will tell you it was a collective effort.

My great grandfather was a WW2 vet and before he died he always used to tell me about how well the poles fought in the battle of britian.

[chieftain]

57. Same here.

My Dad was a Marine in WWII and although mine was a strong Irish American family, he would always praise the English people for their courage in facing down Hitler . Serving in the South Pacific, he also had great things to say about the Aussies, Kiwis and Filipinos.

[enid602]

58. BFEE

Bush doesn't mention that his own grandfather was convicted of dealing with the Nazi enemy, as his companies were financing Germany up until 1942.

[Sapphire Blue]

60. 'Defeated' = Bushspeak for 'hijacked'

[bobbieinok]

61. Soviet war memorial in East Germany praised Soviet defeat of Nazis

saw this memorial in East Berlin in 62.....don't know if it still exists......NO mention of US, Britain, Free France

[moondust]

69. It was still there in 1976.

I have pictures.

Additionally, Soviet media used to be (and Russian media probably still are) thoroughly permeated with stories, interviews, slogans, songs, plays, diaries, you name it, glorifying "the great heroic war to defeat fascism." Those people will never forget how much they sacrificed.

[bobbieinok]

72. I heard it was taken down after unification.....also I don't deny the cost

to the Soviets.....just that it was very striking that there was NO note of any help they got from the US, Britain, or Free France

[moondust]

73. You're right about that.

I recall very little mention of the allies in the Soviet glorification. I suppose it could have something to do with the fact that the Red Army took Berlin to finally end the war.

Found this link from September 2004 saying the War Memorial was still there and now maintained by the German gov't.

http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/wwii/2004-September/002399.html

[tjwash]

62. You mean after we eventually showed up?

Typical Republican smugness. After the rest of the world fought for years and years, and with the righties in congress fighting Roosevelt every step of the way, we get involved. Thousands are killed, and the same righties that would have blocked us entering the war in the first place (hey, his Gramps Prescott Bush WAS making a lot of good dough off the Nazis you know) they claim to be the ones who won it.

What a turd with ears.

[persuade]

63. Russia mainly defeated Germany

Germany suffered 85% of their casualties (killed,wounded,captured) at the hands of the Russians. The Western Front while certainly no joke paled in comparison to the War between Russia and Germany. Further as to any ignorant suggestions that FDR and Churchill capitulated to the USSR in regards to Eastern Europe it should be noted that the Russians had 7,000,000 men and 60,000 of the generally recognized best WW2 tanks in Germany alone at cease fire in addition to the rest of it's armies spread throughout Eastern Europe on VE day.

[ulysses]

67. what others have said re: the Soviets. n/t

[moondust]

68. George of Crawford is in wayyyyy over his head.

He should have stuck to chugging beer on the gravel roads.

[peekaloo]

70. He's tweaking Pootie Poot.

[Taxloss]

71. That rather underplays the role of the Soviet Union!

27 million dead, 14% of the total Soviet population, and more Germans died on Russian soil than in all other theatres put together. It was the Reds what won it.

[kodi]

74. contrasted with what John Kennedy said at American U 6/10/63

"Among the many traits the peoples of our two countries (USA and CCCP) have in common, none is stronger than our mutual abhorrence of war. Almost unique, among the major world powers, we have never been at war with each other. And no nation in the history of battle ever suffered more than the Soviet Union suffered in the course of the Second World War. At least 20 million lost their lives. Countless millions of homes and farms were burned or sacked. A third of the nation's territory, including nearly two thirds of its industrial base, was turned into a wasteland - - a loss equivalent to the devastation of this country east of Chicago."

Bush is an idiot. a very dangerous idiot.

[mailotto]

76. Maybe so, but we invented the internet

[gulfcoastliberal]

77. This is a great post.

This is the republican version of history. It's being rewritten right out in plain sight. Thanks for pointing this out, it's very important people realize what this is.