Why are we the only "civilized" country that still has the death penalty

[southernleftylady]

what are your thoughts??
and what are the wing nuts answer to this??

[ck4829]

1. Blame the Culture of 'life'.

[CBGLuthier]

2. You don't consider China civilized?

Not to be a quibbler and I agree that we should abolish the DP, but I would not call China an uncivilized county.

[bennywhale]

16. Uncivilised

possibly not but undemocratic, unenlightened, and unfree (is that a word?) definetely.

I always take 'civilised' to mean the developed Western Nations but i always thinks it sounds rather arrogant.

[jeff30997]

3. The US is also the only "civilized" country that still...

Don't use the metric system so maybe it's a fear of change or something.:)

[bennywhale]

17. The UK

still doesn't use the metric system.

Although its actually a bit of a mess. Road signs are in miles, and weight is both in pounds and ounces and grammes, tape measures have both on.

And when i used to work at a carpet factory the width of the carpets were in metres the length measured in yards.

Pretty fucked up actually now i think about it

[kliljedahl]

30. And don't forget Whitworth for nuts & bolts

Former Triumph owner:


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[bennywhale]

42. aaaah Triumphs

you love and lose

[Freedom_from_Chains]

4. We can't take away the death penalty

As that would be taking away meaning to your average fundies life.

[TahitiNut]

10. Yep. It helps them consummate their marriages.

:puke:

[LynnTheDem]

14. LOL!!!

I must remember that one. :D

[bennywhale]

19. Didn't bush say

"its always safest to err on the side of life" when talking about terri

[Freedom_from_Chains]

46. And you like believe anything that Bush says?

As on any day he will say whatever supports whatever he is trying to push on that day. In regards to Terri, he was trying to push the idea that we have an out of control judiciary.

Tomorrow, when he is selling strengthening crime prevention by having more executions, it will likely say something else.

[bennywhale]

48. You can tell when he's lying because

his lips move

[Freedom_from_Chains]

49. You got that right, any other time, he's a pretty truthful guy

[GreenArrow]

5. maybe we aren't as civilized as we think we are?

Actually, there is no maybe about it. Most of us confuse mere technology with "civilization" or culture. We're savages with fancy tools, that's all.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

11. We have just learned how to put a good face on it.

Truth is, humanity still has a long way to go. Let's just hope we don't exterminate ourselves before we get there.

[bennywhale]

44. Churchill said

"you can judge how civilised a society is by the way it treats its prisoners."

Not fuckin very in the case of the USA

[GreenArrow]

54. Churchill hit the nail on the head

with that one. For all the yammering about "freedom" there are more people in prison than in most of the world's industrialized countries, most of them for stupid, arbitrary crap. In general, the more laws, the more criminals.

[leftofthedial]

6. when did we get "civilized"?

I think we are a backward, woefully unenlightened country, in which the offspring of the immigrants who fueled the industrial revolution are rapidly reverting to the condition their ancestors tried to leave behind--superstitious, fear-ridden, helpless peasantry, ripe for exploitation.

[true_notes]

12. Interesting Perspective

And you are in a sense very correct. We used to be respected as a leader in the world. Whatever we did, we did it by example, for the good of the world. It seems nowadays our greedy ways has blinded us to what is truly good for us and for the world. We, as a nation, have seemlingly lost compassion, and enlightenment to our brothers, and now we are paying for it. We will continue to pay for it until we get valid leadership, and altered morals to live by.

Welcome to Unite Falsehoods of America.

[Just Me]

38. Welcome to DU "true_notes"!!!

:hi:

We do seem to have shifted in reverse, sadly.

[newyawker99]

59. Hi true_notes!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[ArkDem]

45. Oh, King, eh, very nice.

And how d'you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers! By 'anging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and
social differences in our society. If there's ever going to be any progress with the--

[undeterred]

7. And here is the company we keep:

Retentionist

Countries and territories which retain the death penalty for ordinary crimes

AFGHANISTAN, ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA, BAHAMAS, BAHRAIN, BANGLADESH, BARBADOS, BELARUS, BELIZE, BOTSWANA, BURUNDI, CAMEROON, CHAD, CHINA, COMOROS, CONGO (Democratic Republic), CUBA, DOMINICA, EGYPT, EQUATORIAL GUINEA, ERITREA, ETHIOPIA, GABON, GHANA, GUATEMALA, GUINEA, GUYANA, INDIA, INDONESIA, IRAN, IRAQ, JAMAICA, JAPAN, JORDAN, KAZAKSTAN, KOREA (North), KOREA (South), KUWAIT, KYRGYZSTAN, LAOS, LEBANON, LESOTHO, LIBERIA, LIBYA, MALAWI, MALAYSIA, MONGOLIA, NIGERIA, OMAN, PAKISTAN, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, PHILIPPINES, QATAR, RWANDA, SAINT CHRISTOPHER & NEVIS, SAINT LUCIA, SAINT VINCENT & GRENADINES, SAUDI ARABIA, SIERRA LEONE, SINGAPORE, SOMALIA, SUDAN, SWAZILAND, SYRIA, TAIWAN, TAJIKISTAN, TANZANIA, THAILAND, TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO, UGANDA, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, UZBEKISTAN, VIET NAM, YEMEN, ZAMBIA, ZIMBABWE

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/deathpenalty-countries-eng

[jeff30997]

9. Woohooo ! Canada is not in the list !

[DrDebug]

21. Canada is one of the most civilized countries in the world

Compared to most states it has had the least aggressive history except for Switzerland and tiny countries like Luxembourg and Monaco.

The Canadians can be proud of such a clean history :toast:

P.S. Your defense budget is only $7,4 billion which is the lowest (per capita) of all NATO members

[jeff30997]

26. I'll drink to that too.

:toast:

[undeterred]

27. And the Canadians know how to be friends to their allies

without following them into every stupid thing they do...

[pnb]

40. Murder is an ordinary crime?

And its not even all murders that come with the death penalty.

[bennywhale]

43. To murder

the murderer surely isn't the answer.

The death penalty is an affront to humnanity

[pnb]

52. Maybe so

But that has nothing to do with my comment.

[bennywhale]

58. By saying

"and not even all murders come with the death penalty" implies some support for the death penalty i apologise if thats not the case

[Burma Jones]

8. I think the Japanese would take offense...

Japan is pretty "civilized"

[psychopomp]

64. Japan uses the gallows

What is strange is that, like the U.S., federal executions are infrequent and often long after the conviction but...in Japan the date of execution is kept secret and the announcement that the sentence has been carried out only happens after the event.

So, nobody really knows anything until the sentence has been carried out...not even the person to be executed knows when the punishment will be meted out.

[LynnTheDem]

13. Because we're not civilized. Iraq and Afghanistan more than proved that.

But in case anyone had any doubts, hearing a President of the United States growl "BRING EM ON" took care of them.

[understandinglife]

15. Them thar Fristian values cultural thingie, whatever......

www.missionnotaccomplished.us - STOP THE ATROCITIES; INDICT AND PROSECUTE BU$H AND ALL THE OTHER WAR CRIMINALS

[redqueen]

36. God, that picture hurts to look at.

How do people who rationalize this shit live with themselves?

[Parche]

18. DP

I am for the DP only in the case of Heinous Murder, otherwise no

[Jack_DeLeon]

20. Because the Death Penalty is an appropriate punishment....

in some cases.

[bennywhale]

23. The government of

a people never has the right to murder a citizen.

They just simply don't hold that right no matter how henious the crime.

Murdering murderers is just eye for an eye neandathal justice and it makes whoever is doing the killing no better than the murderer.

Its pre-meditated murder. No excuses

[Jack_DeLeon]

25. you are right, murder is never right...

however killing can be justified, and the death penalty in general is a justified killing.

[jeff30997]

28. The only justified killing is self-defense.

[Jack_DeLeon]

35. it may be your opinion that self-defense is the only justified...

killing but you would be wrong.

[bennywhale]

50. Thats it

you just make a statement that "you would be wrong" don't back it up and leave at that.

People who think like you are dangerous. Not open to debate.

"I have unique access to the truth, and if you don't understand the truth there is something wrong with you"

Pol Pot

[bennywhale]

31. How is the

death penalty just killing rather than murder.

Its a planned pre-meditated murder, thats the definition of murder.

You can't play God.

To plan and carry out a killing/murder on a fellow human being is disgusting.

[Jack_DeLeon]

34. wrong, the definition of murder is...

"The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice." - dictionary.com

Since the death penalty is legal its obviously not unlawful.

[bennywhale]

37. Ok i'll give you

the legal particulars.

But it was quite within the law in Germany 60 years ago to exterminate a race of people.

Quite within British law a couple of hundred years ago to be hung drawn and quartered.

Quite within the law of Afghanistan under the Taliban to stone a woman to death for having a relationship wuith a man outside her family.

Legal but wrong

[bennywhale]

39. To hide behind

the language of the government is an easy argument

"Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable" George Orwell

Dress it up in legal language its still murder which aint nice

[GreenArrow]

55. the death penalty may be "legal"

but that doesn't make it just...under ANY circumstance.

[Balbus]

33. Though it might be an appropriate punishment,

it is a punishment that should not be an option. Every month or so you hear about someone wrongfully convicted being pulled off of death row and allowed to go free - and I'm sure there's wrongfully convicted people that it was too late to be pulled off of death row. Innocent people being killed with the blessing of the government is in no way civilized which is always a possibility with the death penalty.

[Book Lover]

47. Think of it from this perspective

In theory, any and all governments are able to govern, that is, people listen to governments, only because we the people invest them with authority. Do you think it's prudent to invest capital authority to a government? Many of the principles we hold dear as US citizens are based on distrust of governmental authority, because we the people know how easy it is for a government to abuse the power it is granted. Would it not be safer for the people to not give the government the authority to kill us, not matter what the circumstances? When you give a government that power, you end up with people being hanged for stealing horses.

[bpilgrim]

51. in your opinion, but not only does the state get it wrong, it sends a MSG

that to solve some problems death is appropriate.

those two reasons are why i oppose the death penalty and always will.

i think it is a greater punishment to languish in jail but more importantly maybe we can gain insight into factors that contribute to this behavior that we can improve. of course it won't matter in some cases but it could in the aggregate offer something positive to society vs killing.

peace

[GreenArrow]

56. a third reason for me

It prevents people from learning and possibly redeeming themselves.

[Jack_DeLeon]

60. I can understand...

people who are against the death penalty because they think innocent people can be killed. I also understand giving someone a second chance at life.

Personally I would only vote for the death penalty if it was a repeat violent criminal. I would not sentance someone to death if I believe the person did it as a one time act such as maybe revenge or something that might not be legally justified but he had real reasons for committing it.

Anyways about your other statement. IMO death is appropriate to solve "some" problems. Obviously it shouldnt be the first choice to solving all problems, but in some situations it is the solution.

[bennywhale]

22. Depends what you mean by

civilised.

I would describe it more as modern and rich.

"Civilisation" surely isn't fast food, shit tv, guns, and war

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. America should try civilization just to see if it will work here.

"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)

[DrDebug]

29. And now it's falling back to barbarism n/t

[redqueen]

32. Some Democrats support it as well.

If we'd have a little more light between them and us, that would be a good thing.

Even some of (what passes for the) liberal party here is barbaric and backwards.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Politicians generally support what they think will get them votes & $$$.

Ethics, principles, etc, are a very distant 2nd.

[LiberallyInclined]

53. Because we're also the mostest bestest CHRISTian country too, sillypants-

and God wants us to dispatch all those evil souls to Satan ASAP.

it's not always easy doing God's work, but when we Americans are called- we answer!

[Bunny]

57. How's your new baby?

Did everything go well?

[southernleftylady]

61. Thank you for asking...

we had a few scares (his heart beat when WAY low, then mine did ) so we almost had to do an emergency C section but when they checked me he was so low they could tell me what color hair he had (i was 5cm took a nap for 45 minutes then they woke me up because they saw how low his heart beat was but in 45 minutes he dropped that low without pushing :D )
so since they saw he was so low they wanted to see if i could push him out faster than it would take to get ready for a c section.. and not even 5 minutes later, 1 1/2 pushes he was out :D
so a total of less that 5 pushes for 2 boys :D
the cord was wrapped arround his neck and under his arm thats why his pressure went so low.. (mine was from a messed up epidural)
and all i could see was his tiny little arms and legs and i said " how small is he?!?!"
(my first son was 9.13)
William (Will) Forest was born at 12:45 7 pounds 7 oz :D
(looking like a total opposite of my blonde(so blonde its almost white) hair very pale blue eyed 3 year old)
http://www.thatsmybaby.net/home/nursery.asp
095-11545 is the password

[Bunny]

62. OMG - he's so cute!

He looks so alert. What a cutie!

[Solly Mack]

63. Perhaps we're not all that civilized after all

perhaps since the "civilized" nations are the ones that define what being civilized means...we'd qualify regardless of our actions.