(alleged) Virgin Mary 'image' defaced (man writes "Big Lie")

[KurtNYC]

Police arrested the alleged vandal shortly after witnesses said they saw the man take out black shoe polish at the site on the Fullerton Avenue underpass around 11:30 p.m. and write "Big Lie" over the stain, said police spokesman David Banks. Sometime later highway workers painted over the graffiti.
...
Police were initially reluctant to release Gonzalez's name because of concerns that outrage over the defacement might jeopardize his safety. "This could be a nasty thing," Banks said.
...
Believers said the stain showed the outline of the Virgin Mary's face wearing a cloak while some skeptics said it resembled a chess pawn--or just grime.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/chi-050605virginmary,0,6483881.story?coll=ny-leadnationalnews-headlines

[Walt Starr]

1. Misdemeanro vandalsim

He'll be fined. There's nothing more they can do to the guy.

[TahitiNut]

10. (Hmmm) A concrete surface already cracked, leaking, and stained?

"Gonazalez was charged with misdemeanor criminal damage to state-supported property, Banks said."

Isn't this just a little like writing "wash me" in the dirt covering a vehicle? Isn't it already defaced and in disrepair? Shoe polish, not paint. How can a 'stain' be defaced?

With all the flowers, notes, and objects, has anyone been ticketed for littering?

With access to the best legal help, I gotta wonder if this wouldn't be a fascinating case - and thrown out by any sane (non-religious) judge.

[Mika]

11. Next, someone will "deface" the shoe polish

:crazy:


America is becoming a f-ing loony bin.



www.stopbolton.org

[Walt Starr]

15. Spray painting anything on any underpass is misdemeanor defacement

happens all the time in Chicago, but normally they never catch the person who does it.

[Maru Kitteh]

20. Very good point

If the people who left all those candles were not ticketed for littering and the city had not declared the underpass some kind of park or other protected site then that means this man was singled out for religious reasons.

Some lawyer should definately pick it up. I'd like to see it made into an issue.

[FreedomAngel82]

42. I hope they do

I agree with you as well. And I just don't see it. :shrug:

[Kansas Wyatt]

19. Well, until the Republican Congress and BushCo. get involved...

To make defacing grease stains in underpasses, who fundies to believe to be Holy, an act of Treason against the United States (Banana Republic of 'Murika').

[Freedom_from_Chains]

2. Police were initially reluctant to release Gonzalez's name

because of concerns that outrage over the defacement might jeopardize his safety. "This could be a nasty thing," Banks said.

Yeah, the faithful could become murderous over a thing like this.

[FreedomAngel82]

43. And here I thought

there was the whole "thou shalt not murder" thing going on. Maybe I have a different Bible and have all these years? :shrug:

[Demit]

3. He defaced the holy stain! Crucify him! Crucify him!

Good grief.

[fishwax]

33. lol

[KittyWampus]

35. Many Saw An Image Representing The Divine Feminine. Yeah, It Was A Man

who had to "piss" on it.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

4. heh, this guys got some guts

this stain is indeed nonsense.

[AngryAmish]

5. The stain was calming down

Now more people are going to come out and get in my way.

[derby378]

6. This ain't gonna be pretty

And here's the suspect's name...and here's his address...and here's a credit card receipt of his that he forgot to shred...and here's where his girlfriend works...

[Montanan]

7. Hats off to Gonzales

Although I don't endorse defacing public property, what Gonzales did was courageous and long overdue. Christians are notorious for getting in peoples' faces and ridiculing their beliefs. This is just a little payback.

[KittyWampus]

36. Hats Off For Shitting On Other Human's Hearfelt Devotion To Feminity?

and everything else the Virgin Mary represents?

In this time of war and hatred, people came together in public to share a common sense of spirituality and DU'ers crap on it along with the asshole with the shoe polish.

REAL NICE!

And before you try to justify you hatred, not EVERYONE who prays is a fundie.

[LiberallyInclined]

8. there are 16 victor gonzalez'es listed in Chicago-

at least 15 of them are probably very nervous today...

[KurtNYC]

9. People have been photographed writing on the same wall

I guess it is what you write that matters now.

Check the photo gallery at the link for more.

[grumpy old fart]

12. hmmm, a little selective prosecution here?

Last time I looked, that was unconstitutional. This charge is going away quickly, I suspect.

[KittyWampus]

37. He Wrote OVER The Stain/Image. Is That Woman Defacing The Percieved

image?

[DearAbby]

39. Someone should send this picture into the police Dept that ticketed this

person, and by publishing his name placed him in danger. Others can write their sentiments, but this person is not? Why isn't this woman ticketed for the same offense?

[FreedomAngel82]

44. So let's see here

this girl is writing on the property but it's seen as religious but when this guy wrote on it he was arrested? AHH!! The hypocracy stupid! And I still don't see it. It's just a stain! My God.

[Rican1]

13. I live three blocks from the stain

and have to deal with the traffic it has caused everyday. I was thinking of spraying it with a pressure washer. That way I couldn't be charged with vandalism.

[wndycty]

14. Count me as agnostic who thinks this guy is big jerk off. . .

. . . I don't like religion forced down my throat but, I respect others right to believe what they believe and if they want to believe that it was the Virgin Mary I think it should be respected. . .Gonzalez's is jerk off.

[Montanan]

16. Not "jerking off" to stand up to Christians.

The problem with Christians is that they do NOT respect the rights of others to believe as they want. Standing up to them - with the "Big Lie" truth - is a good thing.

[Chrisduhfur]

18. Some may not, but not all.

You're lumping all Christians into a single group. That is much like when people try to lump all Muslims as being terrorists. Or all Jews as being crooks. Or even like saying all blacks are criminals... It is a sign of ignorance. Sure some Christians are morons who are intolerant A-Holes but not all are like that.

[Montanan]

21. Christians are defined by their intolerance.

All Christians, by defintion, believe that belief in Jesus Christ is the ONLY WAY to have salvation, know God, etc., and that they have a mandate from God ("The Great Commission") to convert the world. That is the basic tenet of their faith. If they didn't believe that, they wouldn't be Christians in the first place.

[Maru Kitteh]

23. Educate yourself a little bit......... just a little, I'm not asking for

too much now, we wouldn't want your head to blow or anything, before you go and make bigoted broad brush statements like that.

YOU ARE WRONG. There are literally MILLIONS of Christians who believe that other religions are fully legitimate paths to a relationship with God and grace and salvation.

What you are spewing about are fundamentalist nutballs with little black hearts and smaller brains. Don't you dare lump me in there with them. Shame on you for YOUR intolerance and bigotry. You have no right to tell me what I believe.

[Montanan]

28. So why are you a Christian?

If you truly believe that other religions are fully legitimate paths, why are you a Christian?

If you lie down with dogs, you rise up with fleas, my friend.

[Maru Kitteh]

47. Guess that's why I don't associate with people who display the intolerance

and bigotry that you show me. Keep your fleas.

Again, educate yourself before you go making broad brush statements funded in intellectual laziness.

[KittyWampus]

38. Not Standing Up To CHRISTIANS? WTF Does That Mean? The Problem

with CHRISTIANS?

:wtf:

Yeah, that wretched Martin Luther King.

[FreedomAngel82]

45. Exactly

And I want to point out not all of us Christians are that way. It seems to me just to be the fundies.

[JohnLocke]

46. Un-fucking-believable.

Defacement and vandalism are now admired and viewed as heroic?

"The problem with Christians is that they do NOT respect the rights of others to believe as they want"? Nice extreme generalization there, buddy.

Jesus. What the hell are you smoking?

[Chrisduhfur]

17. I would be consider agnostic too and I agree with you.

I can not stand bible thumpers, but I can not stand people who attack religion at every chance they get either. To me they are exactly the same. Besides, you don't vandalize property. If it situation was the other way around and a Christian, Jew, Muslim or whatever defaced some ones property I would be saying the same thing. The guy is a jerk off.

[Maru Kitteh]

24. I agree with everything you just said about both kinds of people

my issue with this incident is the different treatment this man is getting as opposed to the people photographed writing messages next to the annomaly. They were both committing the same act so why is only he charged? He is not being treated equally under the law, and that is wrong.

[KittyWampus]

40. He Wrote OVER The Image/Stain. Not By It, OVER IT.

[Maru Kitteh]

49. But that doesn't matter at all in the eyes of the law and it SHOULDN"T

matter one bit to the authorities. The entire underpass is city property. If it is illegal to deface one part in any way it is equally illegal to deface any other part of it.

The law is not being applied equally in this situation for religious reasons and EVERYBODY should be alarmed as hell about that, faithful or not. Government has no business picking and choosing who commits vandalism based on religion just like a church has no business excommunicating members for not supporting George Bush.

[moddemny]

41. You'd make a great lawyer.........

Intent has something to do with it...... It's called a desecration when you try to destroy the image.

[Maru Kitteh]

52. Thanks!! I've thought about going back to school for law

If the United States keeps disintegrating perhaps I'll pick up the family and go study in some nice tropical country. :-)
For now I guess I'll just have to practice my limited skills on DU.

A church may consider his paint a desecration. Desecration so far as it's been addressed in U.S. courts is limited to "sacred" symbols of the state like the flag and that has been cleared by the SCOTUS as protected by the first amendment. If the people who were writing sentiments near the anomaly were engaging in an act of free speech then it could only follow that the man who painted over it was also engaging in free speech. If the city of Chicago wants to allow everyone to write paint and draw on the underpasses as they please that is their prerogative, but it should treat all of it's citizens fairly. The city has no business declaring any one salt stain on an overpass more "sacred" than any other based on any religion. The only law that applies here is destruction of public property and the law should be applied equally.

I am a Christian, and I think the guy was being a jerk, but I don't want to see the law or enforcement slip towards theocracy in even the tiniest ways. Especially not in this climate.

[LiberallyInclined]

27. apparently you don't live or work in the area...

the stupid thing was a total nusiance, and it was on public property.
the guy is a hero.

[moddemny]

34. Exactly.........

The virgin mary reflects something very positive and how people choose to use or interpret religion is a seperate issue.

[librechik]

22. to quote Marcel Duchamp, "C'est fini!"

after all, he invented "found" art.

Bravo!

[Wilber_Stool]

25. I thought it looked more like

Cher.

[ComerPerro]

26. Great. Now we get to hear more BS about how oppressed Christains are

and how they can't practice their religion without being attacked.

[Montanan]

29. Christians think they're being oppressed...

... when they aren't allowed to oppress everyone else.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. Wow. Gawd can't even protect His Holy Stains. Call the pope.

And, don't forget to enclose a donation.

[Squatch]

31. What was the harm in letting these people pray to a salt and oil stain?

Was anybody hurt, killed, maimed, pillaged, plundered, or otherwise harmed by these people worshiping a stain?

Jeeze. If some people find peace and happiness looking for symbology in fruit, half-eaten sandwiches, or underpass stains, why can't others just let them?

[thebigidea]

50. maybe his god told him to brand this the work of a false god.

who are you to judge the authenticity of his god?

[Vinca]

32. What a waste of police time. Is it really necessary to tie up cops,

prosecutors, public defenders and the court system with a case involving the defacing of a WATER STAIN. This is nuts, completely nuts. (Meanwhile, on the other side of town, Grandma might have been raped by a sex offender they'd lost track of.)

[MazeRat7]

48. What complete nonsense... How is this different from the "RunAway Bride"?

Give me a break people and quit wasting bandwidth....

MZr7

[mtnsnake]

51. Did you say underpass or underpants?

Next you know, someone will be seeing images there, too!

[daleo]

53. He may have been a fundamentalist for all we know

Some religious believers would see this as idolatry. We shouldn't assume he was necessarily agnostic or atheist.