So this is the government that Republicans want ??

[kentuck]

If so, they are our enemies. They are not political opponents. They are "enemies". They have chosen this poison and we all have to drink it.

If this is what they want, they have declared war on the rest of us. And what else are we to believe since they vote almost to a man for every piece of radical shit that comes down the pike. How are we supposed to treat them? Are we supposed to congratulate them for their "political" victories? Are we supposed to be "bi-partisan" about every issue - no matter if it kills your parents and puts your children in a hole for their entire lives?

How should we treat Republican voters? Ignorance is no excuse. They have chosen this present radical government and they are all guilty as sin.

[Bluebear]

1. Well said. n/t

[Avalux]

2. They want it ALL

including our souls. I don't think playing fair is an option anymore. They certainly don't give a damn about following rules, why should we. As far as I'm concerned, we're at war.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

3. As far as I'm concerned, we're at war.

Which is what they have always been angling for. Then George will be able to declare martial law.

[Avalux]

5. Not literally

Not advocating violence. :eyes:

[Freedom_from_Chains]

9. Not advocating violence: Nor should you be

But wars can be both ideological or physical. But many physical wars, start out as ideological wars.

[Avalux]

10. reason vs. faith

And if faith win out over reason, we are all doomed. No guns or bombs needed.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

14. Not all people are going to go down the road to blind obedience

willingly.

[Avalux]

15. agreed -

no telling where the path will lead.

(nominated)

[Freedom_from_Chains]

22. And I am sincerely of the hope we won't have to find out.

However, I am not placing any bets.

[suziedemocrat]

31. We'll lose with violence, they out arm us. We'll have to win by our wits.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

39. And whose fault is that

I have found in the past that wits splatter pretty readily with a 38.

[atreides1]

33. Thomas Jefferson had these words to say

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the
pursuit of Happiness.-- That to secure these rights, Governments are
instituted among Men, deriving their just powers form the consent of the governed,--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or
to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation
on such principles and organizing its power in such form, as to them
shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

In other words we have the right to fight for our freedom, however we
fight is dependent on us. We can talk, we can see if we can work out a compromise that is satisfactory to all parties. But, we must all be willing to take to hard road if we are pushed towards it.

I for one will not stand by as those I love and care for are rounded up and imprisoned because they are different. At this point I will no longer talk, I will fight, and if needed will give my life for
freedom.

Besides, how the hell is Bush going to enforce martial law with most of the US military now serving overseas, and if he dares to attack Iran, he will have even less assets. And don't count on the police, there are some places in this country where the civilian population are better armed then law enforcement, and the police know it.

If Bush declares martial law, you can bet that Idaho, Montana, North and South Dakota, and possibly Oregon, Washington, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, Texas, and New Mexico, won't be having any of it.
Do you realize how many gun owners there are in those states alone.

Bush declares martial law, he'll have the Second Civil War on his hands, and it's hard to fight a war at home, when you've sent almost all of the military to the Middle East.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

40. Well I wouldn't begin to hypothesize as to the mechanics of such action

As it would really be nothing more than guessing. Suffice it to say that it would get real nasty and I sincerely hope this is not where we are heading. By the same token, I strongly believe it is a possibility that must be considered.

One of the things that I have been struck by from posting on DU over the last few months, of which my being raised in a fundamentalist home, of which I have spent years in therapy recovering from, gives me a different perspective on this. Posters here really do not understand or get the fundamentalist mindset. They really don't understand the win at all cost view of life these people have and for them, when it comes to doing gods work to save the world from satan, there is no such thing as an atrocity.

[catzies]

4. Of course they want our souls - how else could they get them?

Seein' as they got none. ;)

[underpants]

6. Right they aren't even close yet

Check out the Dominionists article in Rolling Stone. There was also a great discussion about them on DemocracyNow this morning.

[FreedomAngel82]

37. Yep

The fundies want our soul while the republicans want our cash.

[Jade Fox]

7. They want us to see the error of our ways, and beg to be allowed to join..

them.

I'm not actually kidding. The radicals among them envision a world with
no diversity of opinions (or anything else), and see this as possible and
desirable.

[kansasblue]

8. This isn't your father Republican party.

The government is growing faster than any time since FDR.

The budget surpluses are huge.

The trade deficits are huge.

We are 'nation building'.

Civil rights are imperiled.

Church and state lines are fading.


That's the result of the Republican party? That's not Reagan Republicanism, nor Eisenhower.

[charlyvi]

25. That's not even Goldwater.

I remember the election between LBJ and Goldwater; LBJ won in a landslide because the electorate thought Goldwater was too radical. The tragedy is, now repukes would probably consider him way too liberal. It's scary.

[BigBearJohn]

11. OH MY GOD, I couldn't agree with you more! (((( WELL SAID ))))

[Double T]

12. They Are So Concerned About A Religious Fundamentalist Government....

...In Iraq, While They Are Attempting To Ram A Religious Fundamentalist Government Down Our Throats Here. I Guess It Depends On Who's Religion We Are Talking About.

[Bluebear]

13. NOMINATED

[DrDebug]

16. Sorry I was confused

I almost thought that you said it twice since you also made the first post.

Forget about it... I'm starting to see things which aren't there. The messageboard illusion syndrome ;)

[Bluebear]

18. I would nominate it twice if I could!

But you can't. So I won't.

[DrDebug]

20. Well you have your 3 votes now ;) n/t

[TNOE]

17. Yep, very good post

Obviously - the most important matters of the day are

That gays absolutely cannot get married - and must change their ways and be saved or else.

The Bible is now the Constituion of the United States and the Bill of Rights.

There are more homeless living in the streets, including families
There is way more poverty
There are less jobs
The overall economy sucks
The deficit is sky high
The dollar is in a rapid decline

Yes, this is the government that the Republicans voted for - and they should have KNOWN it. We did.

We have our own government sticking their corporate money in offshore accounts - and they didn't see this coming?

[Zinfandel]

19. Dude, They are NOT there yet...

1) When all social programs, education, Post Office and Amtrak are all completely privatized by the cost cutting, corner cutting monopoly corporations.

2) When the republicans get rid of the filibuster (whether by stealing five more senators in 2006 or the "nuclear" option now) for complete one party rule & dictatorship.

3) When they find a way to stop our information flow on the Internet.

4) When unions are abolished, no workers rights and the workers pay all the taxes for the rich and their military imperialistic machine.

Then they will be there, they are very close to being there now...in 3 1/2 years we might just be there completely...

[txaslftist]

21. Hah! You think that's where they'll stop?

Shit, that's just a stepping off point.

The stuff you're talking about ain't even scary. They'll stop when you and I and anyone else who dissents is permanently silenced. Or when we stop them.

And by the way, they don't want our souls. They want us gone, out of the way, permanently silenced. As in permanently.

And this isn't a rhetorical war, either. It is a war.

[Zinfandel]

23. I'm with you dude...Nothing will satisfy these lying, greedy, selfish,

filthy republican swine...It is indeed a war, this is no fucking joke or stretching of the truth, nor is it that they want has gone "permanently". I know this is fact...But then, who would they have to oppress, they need somebody...

Their astonishing never ending greed and need for oppression is truly, disgustingly and frighteningly insatiable!

[dmr]

27. Then when all that happens

they will all be asking (because some already have):

Why didn't the Democrats stop them?

These people are unwilling to take ownership for what they have allowed to happen. They, the voters with their blind faith and/or ignorance have rendered the voices of reason impotent by their propaganda-spewed battle cries and the silencing of those who dissent.

I agree with the poster upthread: It is (blind) faith vs reason. And, it makes no sense to me.

I also consider them and the media complicit with the deaths incurred under the Bush* administration.

[Terre]

38. National ID card is the first step

and as a caller stated on Randi Rhodes today - I forget which country he was from - if you are a victim of say, flood, earthquake, tornado, etc. what will stop them from red-lining you, denying, or reducing federal assistance because of your political affiliation, race, etc.

And if you think that's not possible, you haven't been paying attention.

To Repub lurkers: The Republican party is supposed to be against BIG GOVERNMENT, isn't it? HOLY CRAP PEOPLE! NCLB is a damn fiasco. And if you don't think government will get bigger with a National ID system, take the damn blinders off! -

GET REAL & OPEN YOUR EYES!

[atreides1]

24. In 3 1/2 Years

Some of them won't be here to see it, count on it!!!!

[ComerPerro]

26. I agree completely, Kentuck

I think anyone voting for Bush and the Republicans now can no longer plead ignorance. Voting for Bush and the GOP is a character flaw.

Its clear what they stand for. Ignorance is not an excuse.

That's why I have such a problem taking sympathy on Bush voters who fall on hard times.

"Gee, you voted for Bush twice, and now you say your company has discontinued providing health insurance? Good work! That's what you voted for!"

[Zinfandel]

29. I don't think they give a shit what you think...

or I, or anyone else for that matter...

And not for a moment is Bush the problem, if they are literally out in the streets without a dime in their pockets...it is the democrats and the liberals fault, certainly NOT Bush...

(Read today’s letter in “Aunt Pinky”).

As Malloy states so eloquently..."At least the fags can't get married"-- so what if I don't have a home or a job or medical insurance.

“Ignorance is indeed bliss”.

[ComerPerro]

30. Oh, believe me, I know they don't care

And Rush and Hannity have them so brainwashed that it hasn't even occured to them that Bush is the problem

[Zinfandel]

32. Exactly, that's it exactly! It may seem...

too simplistic to most, but I've known it to be true for many years and now they smell and want blood, it's accelerating to a disastrous point of no return of pure hate and unimaginable ugliness.

[suziedemocrat]

28. I agree! I think of them as akin to Hitler's supporters in the 1930's.

Hitler was elected on a anti-semitic platform. At a certain point - his supporters had to bear some of the blame for his success - and therefore his deeds. The same is true today. Fundies say doctors who perform abortions are murderers. Aren't Bush voters murderers for voting for someone who waged an unnecessary war? My aunt is a super-sweet (so sweet it seems a little fake if you want to know the truth) Catholic. She wouldn't dare vote for Kerry because he supported abortion. Yet - what is the death toll for the war in Iraq?

[grace0418]

34. A few years ago I didn't immediately judge someone who was a

Republican. I figured they had reasons or were maybe just ignorant of all the policies, and if they knew the whole truth it would change their minds. But now, sadly, I just don't even want to hear what a Repub has to say anymore. There is simply no excuse for supporting this fascist regime. Too much has happened and the crimes of BushCo have just been too blatant and numerous to allow someone the ignorance excuse any more. With the ignorance excuse gone, the other option is that a Republican in today's world actively supports the regime. And that is just too heinous.

It pains me to say this because one of my brothers is a Republican, as is most of my husband's family. I am still cordial with them and I love them but frankly I think less of them as people.

[jbnow]

41. Same here

During the last election cycle my "tolerance" for the other side went away. I had some odd discussions with some republicans close to me before the election, wanting to understand why they'd vote for bush. I politely asked about various issues because I knew what they cared about. I was ready to listen. They really had nothing to say. It was like these things that should really troubled them they just didn't look at, shrugged off. They spouted cliches about the good man he is or he'd keep us safe or bark some bad cliche about Kerry.

They aren't stupid people, I'm sure they weren't hypnotized or drugged. It was just unreal.

I do think less of all of them. It is personal. They did this to us. My state went Kerry, but that doesn't help.Like you I am polite but I don't spend time I don't have to with them. Their...acceptance or respect for this administration is alien to me. Repulsive.

These are very odd times. I could never have imagined politics creating such a wedge. But this is more then politics.

[grace0418]

48. well said

It's much more than politics. Our freedom, our country and our lives are at stake and Republicans are either willfully ingoring this or they are participating. Either way, it's a crime.

[jen4clark]

35. this is the government they've planned for

for along time.

http://www.insider-magazine.com/ChristianMafia.htm

EXPOSÉ: THE “CHRISTIAN” MAFIA

Where Those Who Now Run the U.S. Government Came From and Where They Are Taking Us

************

http://www.tylwythteg.com/enemies/CHRISHIJACK/hijack1.html

THE HIJACKING OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH

[BigBearJohn]

36. * is the ANTI-CHRIST -- spread the word!!!

oh boy, I'm in deep shit now

[Amonester]

45. According to the superstitions... uh, sorry, the predictions

perhaps you've got a point ... (or maybe not)

<snip>

6. Flower of Flowers. PAUL VI. 1963-1978. Paul's coat-of-arms depicts three fleurs-de-lis, corresponding to Malachay's prophecy. His coat of arms included three fleurs-de-lis (iris blossoms).

7. Of the Half Moon. JOHN PAUL I. 1978-1978. John Paul I was elected Pope on August 26, 1978, when there was a half moon. He reigned 33 days, that is, about one month, when he died, although many think he was murdered. He was the 109th Pope - is "De Medietate Lunae" (Of the Half Moon). The corresponding pope was John Paul I (1978-78), who was born in the diocese of Belluno (beautiful moon) and was baptized Albino Luciani (white light). He became pope on August 26, 1978, when the moon appeared exactly half full. It was in its waning phase. He died the following month, soon after an eclipse of the moon.

8. The Labor of the Sun. JOHN PAUL II. 1978-2005. John Paul II was the most travelled Pope in history. He circled the globe numerous times, preaching to huge audiences everywhere he went. Even though he was once shot, he did not slow down. He wrote a book which enjoyed a large circulation. John Paul II was born on May 18, 1920. On that date in the morning there was a near total eclipse of the sun over Europe. The Prophecy - The 110th Pope is "De Labore Solis" (Of the Solar Eclipse, or, From the Toil of the Sun). Like the sun he came out of the East (Poland).

9. The Glory of the Olive. The Olive branch is a sign of peace and he may be a peacemaker. It is interesting that Jesus gave his apocalyptic prophecy about the end of time from the Mount of Olives. This Pope will reign during the beginning of the tribulation Jesus spoke of. The 111th prophesy is "Gloria Olivae" (The Glory of the Olive). The Order of Saint Benedict has claimed that this pope will come from their ranks. Saint Benedict himself prophesied that before the end of the world his Order, known also as the Olivetans, will triumphantly lead the Catholic Church in its fight against evil. The fact that the new Pope has chosen the name Bendict confirms the Malachi prophesy to be true yet again since the phrase is correctly connected directly to his name.

10. PETER THE ROMAN - This final Pope wil, it is argued now by theologians, is likely be Satan, taking the form of a man named Peter who will gain a worldwide allegiance and adoration. He will be the final antichrist which prophecy students have long foretold. If it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived. The 112th prophesy states: "In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Petrus Romanus, who will feed his flock amid many tribulations; after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people. The End."

Now go to The Book of Life which confirms the date of the TRIBULATION and ties in absolutely to the Malachi prophesy.

...<snip>...

but if so, it's not this Peter The Roman that is likely to be :evilfrown:

but *

and he would have to persecute someone...

ummm, wonder who?


:smoke:

[kentuck]

42. I am very conflicted about this reality....

But, after everything that has happened with Social Security and the truth about Bush planning his lies to make the intelligence fit his desire to invade Iraq, not to mention the loss of lives and the huge deficits we are now facing, and a future that does not look very bright, at least from my perspective, and the lies that keep coming and coming and still.....they continue to support him. Am I looking at this in the most negative way just because I am a Democrat or is this bad shit really happening?? It seems to me that the Republicans, average Republicans, are in denial, as we slip further and further toward a crisis moment...They cannot escape responsibility.

[KelleyKramer]

43. Conversation at the gas station last week...

There was a man on the other side of the pump, and he started bitching about the prices, how it was going to cost him another $50-75 bucks to fill his car up.

I look over and see one of those W stickers on his suv, so I looked at him and said..

Well, everyone knew the price had doubled in W's first term, from about 1 buck to 2 dollars. Then last November the people said 'we like that, we want more, we want it to double from 2 to 4 dollars' .. well, sir, we asked for it, and now we get it.

You should have seen the look on his face.

I normally dont do stuff like that with strangers because it can easily start an argument.

Anyway, after the deer in the headlights look, I waited for him to respond, and waited, and waited, and he never really said anything, he finally just mumbled something under his breath that sounded like a 'well, maybe'.

With no response, I put the cap back on the tank, and while walking off to go pay said ...

Have a great day... God bless George W Bush and Exxon-Mobil.

[Just Me]

44. Honestly, kentuck, I don't believe that this is the government that,...

,...any reasonably aware human being wants. The caveat is "reasonably aware". It's tough to entertain the notion of being "reasonably aware" when the masses are subjected to deception and info/mindless/tainment every day. Most of us, here, really work at ascertaining what the heck's going on,...and I believe we underestimate just how much of ourselves we invest in being beyond "reasonably aware" into exceptionally knowledgeable.

Moreover, most of us, at some point in our lives, had some trust in our representatives, for better or worse. There are those who still trust their representatives, for better or worse. We all SHOULD be able to trust our representatives, believe that they are levelling with us, showing integrity by fulfilling their representations to us and living by the same principles we are suppose to share, to have in common.

What I am trying to say is,...I chose to go after the predators while offering the victims the information necessary to avoid being victimized furher.

[kentuck]

46. I hear what you are saying but...

When George W Bush has this gang of voters behind him,jumping up and down like cheerleaders, all of them with a big "R" tattooed on their foreheads, sometimes you just feel like you would like to slap the shit out of them and say, "Wake the fuck up! Can't you see what is happening to you and everybody around you. The big "R" ain't fucking worth it.."

[jbnow]

49. Do you have luck offering information?

I tried and I did it tactfully. I asked some smart, caring republicans close to me how they felt about some issues...and I would clarify the issues if they didn't know what I meant. Often they'd deny my facts and say "they wouldn't do that" so I'd offer to send the facts. In response to "proof" they would spout cliches and vague denials.

People do want to believe. 9/11 frenzy increased this longing for certainty in uncertain times. The cliches and surface answers bush and gang spout are reassuring in that way. The Old Testament God and right wing religion offers that.

The bush gang, neo-cons and dobson, falwell and robertson types ...all these bad leaders are easiest to "blame". But they are just mean, greedy dysfunctional people. The problem is those who believe in them, follow them, absorb their ideology. If people didn't do that then these "leaders" would just be creepy people who weren't much of a threat. bush would just be some rich boy to avoid at parties.

We (as in we the people) give them the power. We the people are the problem.

[satya]

47. Yes. They have no idea how much wealth is being siphoned out of our

pockets and into the hands of *'s cronies; all they know is he didn't raise their taxes. And that "we're fighting them terrorists over there so they don't come here".