I am now officially uncomfortable with religion. (rant)

[charlyvi]

To me, religion has now become synonymous with manipulative brainwashing. In my mind, it has become identified with Dobson, Robertson, and Falwell; that I feel this way, when I never felt this way in my life, is a shame. The message of Jesus, whether you consider him a Saviour or a philosopher, was one of peace, justice, kindness, generosity. What happened? I am now hearing the most batshit crazy prejudices voiced in the name of Jesus; the most heinous acts, the most outlandish manipulations justified by religion. In my mind, religion and Jesus have become two antithetical ideas. This came to me as I watched the press conference given by the runaway bride's minister. All the usual buzzwords were used; Jesus, Christ, prayer, scripture, church. It's like an extended Jerry Springer roadshow, in the name of Jesus.

Okay. I feel better now.

[htuttle]

1. Baby Jesus hates you for saying that

I know, because he just told me so. His image appeared in my coffee.

[Bluebear]

4. Quick! Put the coffee on ebay!

[Goldmund]

2. This isn't anything new.

Religion was described by Marx as "an opiate for the masses", and for a good reason. Almost whenever any authoritarian regime wanted to clamp down on the sheeple, religion stood ready as the main tool.

[Tux]

21. Jesus was cool

Till he was God. If you can't stand religion but think Jesus was cool, read the Jefferson Bible. Tom Jefferson removed all supernatural stuff out of it and it's a story of a great philosopher instead of a hijacked peace lover turned warmonger.

[charlyvi]

30. Thanks. I will.

I have always considered Jesus as more philosphical that religious. I thing the relgious aspect was mostly written by his disciples. But following his principles would engender a great person.

[Goldmund]

45. Didn't know the dude

And I tend to believe that he's a compilation of the greatest hits of myths of that time. But I could be wrong about that.

Still, Jesus has little to do with religion as an institution. He's just used by religious authorities as a tool.

[Bouncy Ball]

3. Just remember--those people don't like the LIVING Jesus

the one who said all those things.

They like the dead and crucified Jesus.

Period.

[htuttle]

7. Did you ever notice...

...that the Nicean Creed doesn't mention a single thing that Jesus said? It's all about dying and coming back to life.

Go figure. :shrug:

[Lindacooks]

28. YES!!!

That's my point too - I think they're called Nicene Christians. They skip right from his birth to his death and crucifixtion - nothing about all of his words condemning the rich, the powerful, and commanding us to help the poor.

[charlyvi]

11. That's the most adorable picture.

You cheered me up with it, Bouncy.

[Why Syzygy]

5. I think Mohammad

may have a problem with what is carried on in 'his name' as well.

I agree whole-heartedly. Jesus nor Mohammad ever incited violence.
Did they? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[charlyvi]

13. That's my point.

If people TRULY followed the principles of Jesus, this world would be a joy to live in. I don't know enough about Mohammad, which is a shame. I should, but I don't.

[Jo March]

39. Jesus did not incite violence, rather, he asked us to lay our swords down

He did get angry once - at the moneychangers in the temple - but He was a peaceful man. Even as he was being arrested (a step towards His inevitable death), He commanded his soliders to lay down their swords:

47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him, 48 but Jesus asked him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?” 49 When Jesus’ followers saw what was going to happen, they said, “Lord, should we strike with our swords?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. 51 But Jesus answered, “No more of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him. 52 Then Jesus said to the chief priests, the officers of the temple guard, and the elders, who had come for him, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come with swords and clubs? 53 Every day I was with you in the temple courts, and you did not lay a hand on me. But this is your hour—when darkness reigns.”

[callous taoboy]

6. If you'd like to get really scared, pick up the current issue of

Harper's. It has several pieces related to whacko fundies and it is not pretty.

[proud patriot]

8. My mom's saying is ringing in my ears

"Man gave us religion God gave us faith "

[info being]

12. God didn't give us faith

What was she talking about? Faith is intellectual laziness.

[proud patriot]

37. I dissagree

:hi:

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[info being]

10. Just now...like it never was all those things before.

Once you erase the brainwashing, it seems so obvious...doesn't it?

[charlyvi]

19. Clarification.

I've never been religious, in the church-going sense of the word. But I did respect it; now I don't. My family is religous, my aunts were the most tolerant, giving, kindest women I have ever known. Their children, however, are batshit crazy fundies (they are all Southern Baptist). When did religion turn into a political tool? Or maybe the correct question is, when did politics turn into a religious tool? When did the New Testament die?

[info being]

22. When?

In terms of Christianity, as soon as they started writing The Bible and everything that has happened ever since.

[txaslftist]

14. Pick a new religion...

..I'm fairly comfortable with my denomination, as they are fairly liberal and don't meddle in politics. Are there a bunch of fanatical rightwingnuts in my congregation? Sure. They're everywhere, like roaches. Turn on the light of reason and they run under the sink.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

23. Turn on the light of reason and they run under the sink.

If that is true, how come they're now running the government?

[beam me up scottie]

15. And on the National Day of Prayer,

no less.

If I was a believer, I'd think it was working...

[Sgent]

18. Funny thing

The most violent religious text -- the old testament, has produced the most liberal (within the last millinia or so) religion, Judaism.

[beam me up scottie]

38. Interesting.

When it comes to religion and religious persons, I feel like Mowgli.

[Bok_Tukalo]

16. The danger that the Evangelicals face

is that they are now so closely tied to the Republican Party that any failure seen by the Republican Party in secular governing also now belongs to their spiritual movement.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

17. Evil men will do evil things

But for good men to do evil things takes religion.

[erichzann]

20. Then apparently you need to look around more.

social justice

Sojourners evangelical social justice magazine, proving an alternative evangelical vision to the religious right
The Other Side magazine social justice magazine, evangelical, praxis orientated
National Catholic Reporter social justice, working for an open and inclusive Catholic Church
Christian Aid UK organization fighting for social justice around the globe, very good resources for third world development
Catholic Workerliving out the Gospel through intentional community and voluntary poverty and becomeing servants for all
Reform Judaism's Social Action Center liberal Judaism's political action center, very comprehensive new web site!
Call to Renewal a different faith based alternative to the religious right
Salt of the Earth Claretian order (RCC) social justice journal
Center of Concern a Jesuit social justice center
Jubilee Network calling for an end to third world debt, economic justice here and around the globe
Unitarian Universalists for a Just Economic Community
United Church of Christ Justice and Peace Page
Democratic Socialists of America Religious Commission with members including Rosemary Radford Reuther, etc.
Mennonite Committee on social justice comphrehensive guide to issues both Canadian and American
American Friends Service Committee
Jewish Social Justice Network
Methodist Federation for Social Action
Faith in Action, Unitarian Universalist
Unitarian Universalist Social Committee international relief
Religious Organizing Against the Death Penalty
Bread for the World
Michael Lerner's Tikkun magazine
10 Days for Global Justice a Canadian interchurch global justice group
Student Christian Movement of Canada strong social justice emphasis
Jewish Social Action website
Interreligious Foundation for
Community Organization/Pastors for Peace works on cuban embargo, other justice issues
Nat'l Interfaith Committee for Worker Justice
Nat'l Farmworkers Ministry
Jewish Fund for Justice
Interfaith Coalition on Immigrant Rights
Protestants for the Common Good
Interfaith Center on Corporate Responsibility
Religion-Labor Coalition
Catholic Labor Network
Network: A National Catholic Social Justice Lobby
Progressive Jewish Alliance
Jews United for Justice
Jews for Racial and Economic Justice
Faith Communities working for Health Care Justice
Anglo-Catholic Socialism
Faith and Socialism Commission of the Socialist Party
Int'l League of Religious Socialists
Christian Socialist Movement

environmentalism

Evangelical Environmental Network
Resources on Ecology and Faith
National Council of Churches Eco-Justice Working Group
Lutheran Earthkeeping Network of the Synods
Christian Environmental Association
North American Coalition for Christianity and Ecology
Coalition on the Environment and Jewish Life
Friends Committee on Unity with NatureCenter for Respect of Life and the Environment
Earth Ministry Resources

Peacemaking

Fellowship of Reconciliation Christian umbrella pacifist organization
Witness for Peace Christian peacemaking group, esp. long history with Latin America
Pax Christi USA international catholic pacifist group
Christian Peacemaker Teams mennonite/quaker peace group, especially involved in the middle east
Unitarian Universalist UN Office
Project Plowshares peace group in Canada
National Interreligious Service Board for Conscientious Objectors
Orthodox Peace Fellowship
Gandhi Institute on Non-violence
Jewish Peace Fellowship
Baptist Peace Fellowship
Ecumenical Peace Institute
Conflict Resolution Site
Interfaith Voices for Peace and Justice
Interfaith Alliance organizing for human rights and providing an alternative to the religious right[br />Interfaith Working Group great christian gay and lesbian resources, and fighting for human rights for all
Religious Tolerance comprehensive site on various religions, and burning issues
Call to Action working for reform in Catholic church, esp on women ordination, GLBT issues, etc.
Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice representing dozens of pro-choice denominations and religious organizations
Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs strong defenders of separation of church and state
Pluralism Project at Harvard
Women Alliance for Theology, Ethics, and Ritual
UUA Office of Bisexual, Gay, Lesbian and Transgender Concerns
Simon Wiesenthal Center
Lillith Magazine: a jewish feminist journal
Resources for Ministries Affirming the Diversity of Human Sexuality
Religious Consulation Group on Reproductive Health Care
Catholic Network for Women's Equality
Center for Sexuality and Religion
Catholics for Choice
Equal Partners in Faith challenging the religious right
Al-Fatiha GLBT Muslims
International Association for Religious Freedom

[charlyvi]

24. Thanks, I'll check these sites out.

What I'm angry about though is the hypocrites who are tearing this nation apart in the name of religion. And the scary part is the truly believe what they are doing is what Jesus would want. ARGH!

[erichzann]

27. I think these active groups are great cause for hope and courage :)

Take heart.

[Tux]

26. Thanks for the links

[mcscajun]

25. Gandhi said something about this...

"I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

[Freedom_from_Chains]

29. I heard something along the lines of:

What a great religion, too bad no one practices it.

[charlyvi]

32. Wonderful.

I hadn't heard that before. Ain't it the truth!

[Abelman]

31. A shame

It is a shame that so many people choose to utilize religion as a way to oppress and exercise command over a majority of people without the will to make their own decisions. The basis of my personal religion is that God bestowed us all with free-will, the power to make our own decisions. That blindly following something is a rejection of this gift.

Religion can be an opiate, it can be used to control people. It can also be used to inspire people and promote a better way of life. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a man who used his religious beliefs and knowledge to help further the progression of equal rights. Ghandi was a religious man as well.

It is a shame that for you religion is now brainwashing; there are still many people who are inspired by their religion to do good and to think for themselves. These people are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Sufi, Wiccan, Pagan, Hindu, and a the entire gamut of religion. Don't let the word "religion" mean one particular religion for you, that's what the people who pervert it into brainwashing want you to do. They would love for us to further propagate the "us" versus "them" concept which divides even those of us who share the same ideals.

Religion is such a hot topic everywhere you go, and I think it stems from people who are so jaded by extremists in every religion that they don't trust them, and people who aren't as faithful as they think they are, so that any attack on their religion vibrates their belief. It's that comfort that they don't want taken away. Unfortunately many people need that comfort taken away, they need to feel what life is like without the security blanket. Only then can they truly find a belief that becomes a part of them - whether it be tenets of religion or the abscence of religion.

I think I've gone off topic. Oh well.

[charlyvi]

34. Thank you for your thoughful reply.

I just have a difficult time grasping how people cannot listen to their own words sometimes. How they can subvert "feed the hungry" to "don't feed the hungry because you'll make them lazy" and then say it in the name of Jesus. It's crazy!

[Selatius]

33. Rent the Kevin Smith movie DOGMA. You'll enjoy it.

That's all I gotta say.

[The White Tree]

35. All I can say is - Have faith

Either in God or in man, have faith. Remember, it is always darkest before the dawn.

Hope is eternal, and my one hope is that this madness will burn itself out in time.

[charlyvi]

36. Thank you.

I just hope I live to see the day.

[seabeyond]

40. i have never been religious, but spiritual

i read bible, but didnt go to church. a decade or two ago i thought, maybe religion should become more prominant in peoples lives. it seemed so many lacked, feared, felt hollow and empty

lookie i was wrong. so wrong

what i thought religion was, and what i am seeing are totally opposite. now i am waiting for religion to fall. in past i use to feel good seeing church, hearing god bless you. now it raises hackles

yes, last fall, seeing a pretty church in the mountains and feeling a negative, i realized i too have been turned off of something that use to make me feel good

[charlyvi]

42. I used to love midnight mass

on Christmas eve, but now I don't know if I can go without thinking of all the harm being done to this country in the name of religion.

[Jo March]

41. You are angry at the fristians and fristianity

There are so many good preachers and teachers out there who are gentle and kind.

Jesus told us not to be like the hypocrites who stand on the streetcorners and pray so everyone can hear them. That's what Falwell and Robertson do. They are on TV for goodness sake! That's as public as you can possibly get!

They are perverting my religion and it makes me as angry as you are.

I hope that you remember that Jesus is those things that you point out: peaceful, kind, generous, loving.

"And the greatest of these is love."

[ClassWarrior]

43. So you're going to let the Radical RW corporatists manipulate you...

...into dividing yourself from people of faith who hold most of the same values as you?

NGU.

[charlyvi]

44. Not at all.

But until I KNOW their values are the same or similar to mine, I will tend to distrust them. I wouldn't feel comfortable with them. Actually, I can get along with an evangelical, as long as they don't subvert Jesus' message into a propaganda tool and condemn me for not agreeing with them.

[FreedomAngel82]

46. You're right

If you haven't you should watch the segment on Democracy now at http://www.democracynow.org It's very scary.