Shut-up and accept it, because theres a line waiting to take your place...

[LaPera]

As we've all known from day one...ALL the republicans really want regarding Social Security is to simply just get their foot in the door...Republicans will accept even the smallest of small concessions as long as their foot is in the door, to ensure later dismantlement, which will also ensure completely destruction of Social Security by the republicans in the future...(We also know, not one single republican voted for Social Security in it's inception almost 70 years ago and that the republicans have wanted to destroy Social Security ever since).

Why do some think that republicans will "fix" Social Security, when these same republicans despise Social Security, "fix" it, how?

Bush's privatization means investment companies will reap in our tax dollars, with absolutely no guarantee that these same companies will be around, or in the black and not in bankruptcy when one retires. One will have to depend on these same companies hoping to avoid having to stand in food lines when one reaches their retirement years".

Republican happiness is life before the "New Deal" no minimum wage, no unions, no child labor laws, no overtime pay, no medical benefits, no sick pay, no vacation pay, no safety regulations, no forty hour workweek, no Social Security and a massive unemployment pool to keep one in line... Shut-up and accept it, because theres a (long) line waiting to take your place...

I can't wait!

[applegrove]

1. SS reform does two things. They will never give up the 'private accounts'

idea because it will infuse the stock market with billions that will keep the 2001 recession from taking place until a democrat is elected president.

Perhaps they will concede in cutting some of the income that goes to the wealthy & in that way be progressive. But it hides something. And it tells something. Why do they need to do the progressive money grab at the source of SS? Why not just tax it back when the middle class receive the SS income & have a nest egg that they dip into using income taxes like they always have?

Are income taxes going to be done away with?

We know there is a Bush tax plan to come in September. Will it be a flat tax? And the end of income taxes?

Because that would explain why the source of SS has to be the thing that is fixed rather than income taxes (to pay for excess SS payments that far surpass the rate of inflation).

My best guess is that the fix is on and it has to take place at the source.

[LaPera]

7. No they won't, your correct...because private accounts keeps

the door open for later challenges in court...if the government can allow investing a small percentage of SS funds for ones investment, then why not 50% or 80% or 100% and then totally destroying Social Security which is the republicans goal, because the republicans will have their foot in the door with their so-called small amount of "private investing"... From way back (Bush's privatization) if & when "W" gets his small concession from the democrats for private investing.

The republicans in future years will be able to take it to the federal courts...and win...because the Democrats left the door open a bit, (if indeed they do now) and the Republicans will of course run with it.

That's their plan of course, just getting their foot in the door (that's all they'll need in the future).

[Skidmore]

2. I tell you we need a massive general strike--worker and consumer.

[screembloodymurder]

5. I'm with you!

Don't you see.

[Psephos]

3. The idea that all repugs hate SS is incorrect

The overwhelming majority of repugs don't want to wreck or dismantle SS. No polls that I am aware of show anything like this.

Conservatives view security net and transfer payments as a necessary evil, while we view them as a fundamental good, and this is at the root of our highly differing opinions about scope and implementation. But make no mistake, this is a mainstream argument about SS policy, not SS existence.

If we're going to fight these pukes effectively, we have to understand them. The wisdom of knowing your opponent is as old as Sun-tzu.

There ARE alarming demographic trends that threaten SS. The long term trend is fewer workers supporting more retirees. Do the math. We would be wise to start articulating some progressive plans to address these issues, rather than solely being reactionaries against plans from the other side. MSA hears no plans from us except "don't touch it."

Peace.

[LaPera]

4. And republicans loved the New Deal? Get real...

Not one voted for it!

I'm speaking of the politicans...NOT the republican saps who are on SS and continue to vote republican, (as do many very poor and middle class workers who still vote republican as republicans want to destroy Social Security.

You heard the saying, and if you can try and understand the concept...I'll paraphrase for you..."The Republicans want to tear down the house, when the house only needs a paint job"!

Just more corporate fascist republicans lies...look at Medicaid if you want to see a program in desperate need of restructuring.

Social Security has worked for seventy years and I trust the experts who tell me it will be solvent until 2054...(with the necessary minor tweaking, that ALL social programs need to go through).

Social Security was working well long before the very first "baby-boomer" (in 1945) got his or her first job (around 1960).

And I sure as fuck don't want ANY of the republicans you speak so fondly of to fuck with Social Security!!

[Zinfandel]

6. Good call bro...

[Psephos]

9. I did not speak fondly of the repukes

Quit putting words in my mouth. I *hate* that shit, don't pull it on me. Ever.

The repukes who voted against the New Deal? 70 years ago? This is your proof? May I remind you what about the record of the donks and civil rights in that era?

Times change. I said we need to understand our opponents to combat them effectively. Also, I'm glad you trust the experts who say there's no problem with the demographics of SS support, but when I look at the numbers myself, I see potential problems. Maybe you should look at the numbers yourself instead of relying on others to do it for you. Do you care more about protecting the program or scoring a slam on repukes? I care about protecting the program. And no, I HAVE NO FUCKING INTEREST in privatizing it, so don't go there.

Medicare, not Medicaid, is the real sore spot, btw.

Peace.

[LaPera]

8. So who doesn't believe the republicans just want their foot in the door?