Please don't be so hard on the red staters

[Pockets]

Just a quick thought.

It's not surprising red staters lean Right especially during these times of aggression. One could probably make the argument that the U.S.'s military infrastructure is comprised in rural parts of the country, and for good reason. The military, through direct employment and contracts, provides many red stater's the best jobs for the most educated people.

If you live in a rural area and you are not willing to apply your talents to the science of killing, people there are going to think there's something wrong with you. This is why I moved away from the country. So please realize, it is not completely their fault.

[Felix Mala]

1. Sure it's not all those Gov. handouts that keep them independent?

Afterall, if you're givin' it all away in the inner cities and ferners, you won't have enough left over for the Red States. Their trough always has to be filled first. Become a Donor! Move to a Blue State.

[still_one]

2. To a large degree it has to do with civil rights

After Lincoln, the South went primarily Democratic until Johnson, when he pushed and signed the 1964 civil rights act. After that the south went republican, and has done so ever since

To be frank the north is not immune from racism, but it is still strongest in the red states.

It is up to the good people in the red states who cannot stand intollerance to vote out the old time politicians

[SouthernDem2004]

5. Hmmm, I actually agree with Mike Malloy on this issue:

"To be frank the north is not immune from racism, but it is still strongest in the red states."

That is completely false. As Malloy was discussing one night, Racism is upfront and in-your-face in the South. In the North it is kept low key and hidden. Which is worse? I personally believe the hidden racisim. To say the South has the strongest racisim is just wrong.

[BillZBubb]

32. No, the South CLEARLY has the strongest racism.

I've lived and worked in both the North and the South. I can say without any doubt that racism in the South is much more pervasive and much more influential.

In the North families tend to be split, with some racists, some not. In the South, whole clans are racist and see no problem with it--although they aren't as public about it as in the past.

A Trent Lott wouldn't last long in the North. He's Senator for life from the South.

[Shell Beau]

40. What is actually funny about Trent Lott, he bought a house

from a friend of my aunt. She had some picture on the wall and I cannot for the life of me remember what was on it, but it must have been somewhat racist and he told her that she needed to take that with her because he thought it was racist and he did not want anything racist in his house. Weird, huh? We all know different! :shrug:

People here aren't as racist as many believe. I will not deny that it exists, of course it does, but the towns I have lived in were majority black so you just didn't see it as much. (I live in MS)

[SouthernDem2004]

46. I still disagree...

I have also lived in both the North and South and racisim and ignorance is everywhere.

[still_one]

41. sorry, it is more prevelent in the South

that is a fact

hidden or upfront

[SouthernDem2004]

44. You are basing this on???

[still_one]

49. history

A Lincoln the south went democratic until 1964 when Johnson passed the civil rights act of 1964

since 1964, the red states have been voting primarily republican

[SouthernDem2004]

50. Voting Republican does not make one a racist.

[atreides1]

7. They' re outnumbered.

I'm sure that the people who cannot stand intolerance, in those Red States have tried to vote out the old time politicians.

The problem is that they are outnumbered by those who would rather go back to the "good old days" when certain people knew "their place", and didn't buck the system.

[cry baby]

18. This is exactly how my mother explained the south's turn

from blue to red. She is nearly 80 and has followed politics for most of her life.

[Clark2008]

22. That's not true. I keep hearing this but, as late as the 1980s

and up until 1994, Tennessee had two Democratic state senators, for example. Most of the South voted for Clinton/Gore twice in 1992 and 1996. My state even has a Dem governor, as does Virginia and Louisiana.

I'm sorry - I don't see it. I don't see this "civil rights act" partitian. Maybe it was present in the late 60 and early 70s - in fact, I'm sure it was, but that's not necessarily the case these days.

What has turned the South Republican most recently, in a word (or two) is "talk radio," and, of course, the Republican propaganda machine.

There simply aren't as many big cities in the South and in the North. As a result, more people live in the country and commute to the city for work. What do they listen to on their drive? If they aren't listening to music, they're listening to right-wing talk radio and gobs of it.

They have confused right-wing talk radio and the christo-fascist movement for real news. When they go home at night, they are convinced, as a result of the right-wing talk radio that only Faux News gives them "fair and balanced" coverage, so they tune into more propaganda.

It has less to do with civil rights issues as with a major media problem - just like everywhere else.

[cally]

48. I agree with you

I think the initial switch from Dem to Rep was racism. I don't believe that so much now. I think it's more talk radio and RW churches that tell folks if they don't vote Rep then they are against God.

Much of the divide is about urban vs. rural differences. Rural voters seem to have problems with urban Dems. We need candidates who can appeal to both.

[ernstbass]

43. Virginia was the first state to elect a black govenor

[Tux]

3. Don't be hard on them?

I cry "Bullshit!"

I am denied employment for attending a liberal college NOT in their state.
I am denied respect from people since I'm not a brainwashed Christian who believes a minister is the next best thing to God.
They voted against my chances of retirement, owning a home, and even having a job.
Those Bible thumping, cousin marrying rednecks are more concerned about NASCAR than why they were laid off and their jobs going overseas.

Ignorance is the rule in the South and they get what they deserve. If they voted for ignorance, greed, and crap, let them lie in their own filth and deny them basic assistance like SS, Medicaid, Medicare, unemployment, disability, and all ferderal funds. If they are God's chosen people, let's see how much God really likes them.

[Kitka]

4. “They”

voted for those things sometimes by a slight majority. Looking down upon the large number of unfortunate minority in those states by inclusion for the victory of a majority they resent just as much as you do really won’t get us anywhere.

[Tux]

6. Bullshit 2

Tell them that. Ever be denied a job because your home state voted for Dems in 2 elections despite the fact I haven't voted there in 8 years? How about being called a liberal and that could upset the values of the community so I can't even get an application. All this from being asked where I am from. If I lie, they ask if I know certain people which ends with the samething.

[Kitka]

13. Tell who that?

I’m sorry you’ve experienced that… but that’s no reason to write off “the red states” in general. My uncle from Tennessee works his ass off 40 hours a week + to help the Democratic party in addition to working a full time laborer’s job. I think comments from those in the very party he dedicates his life to writing him off and telling him he “gets what he deserves” just because he lives in a red state are doing nothing but hurting your own cause.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Clark2008]

24. Where do you live?

I have an extensive vocabulary and was, in fact, a Communications major with a minor in English and I have lived in the South my entire life. I've never ONCE been asked where I was from when I applied for a job (and I don't have much of an accent - it was droned out of me in broadcasting class), I know a few fundies, but nothing like the majority they have portrayed themselves to be, all my friends and I went to college or got some sort of secondary education and the only person with whom I associate on a daily basis who likes NASCAR is my Kerry-voting step-Dad.
Oh - and it's ILLEGAL to marry your first cousin here.
I'm sorry you seem to have hit on the model of Deliverence where you live, but, rest assured, the entire South is NOT like that - at least not in the cities.

[Kitka]

25. I don’t doubt

he is the exception and not the rule. But there are more than one exceptions, quietly helping the Democratic party, even in districts where it may seem futile, because they refuse to give up their states to the fundies. When you make blanket statements, you include them - even if they are exceptions, they exist.

[ComerPerro]

9. Look at Kansas

Kansas voted by quite a significant majority to ban not only gay marraige but also any kind of civil union.

They also re-elected Sam Brownback with astonishing numbers.

These Red-Staters, here at least, are voting for this crap in lock-step.


And please remember that looking down on a state does not suggest looking down on each and every person in that state.

[Kitka]

16. But not 100%....

Astonishing numbers, but not 100%. There are Democrats in Kansas! Comments like the one I’m responding to ARE looking down on each and every person in the state, which is the problem I have. A statement that red states populations will “get what they deserve” does look down on every individual in those states. A Democrat in Kansas is NOT “getting what they deserve”. They deserve better. EVERYONE deserves better.

[atreides1]

12. A majorrty is still a majority, no matter how slight

A slight majority is still a majority. And as long as they are the majority, things will remain the same. If it was possible those who are in the minority could move and start somewhere else, but it isn't possible, at least not for all.

So the minortiy will suffer because of the slight majority.

[Kitka]

19. I know….

But I don’t like blanket statements about the population of a state just because they’re unfortunate enough to not hold the majority. Insults geared at a red state that is a close state are off the mark for nearly half the population!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

17. Are you also including your fellow DUers that live in Red States...

...in your rather interesting diatribe?

[Pockets]

8. I'm serious

I think my original point has merit, although I don't have statistical research to back it up. Many years of my life were consumed by confusion over why I was different from people around me in the country, and I finally realized that I am generally non-violent. When I went to college for engineering I was marginalized due to my lack of desire to build weapons. Large military contractors keep rural parts of the country rich and vibrant. I had to move to the city to fit in. So Based on my experience I think the ethics component (of why they are different) is over-rated, or at least misinterpreted.

[Nite Owl]

10. I cannot validate

their intolerance with understanding.

As for liberals who happen to live there I can't tell you how much I admire you. It's far easier being a liberal from up here in NY. You truly have the courage of your convictions, you are on the front lines so to speak.

[Bridget Burke]

11. Thanks for falling into the divisive trap.....

Here's another way to look at it:

[BiggJawn]

15. Thanks, Bridget!

It's not clear red and blue, isn't it?

And for Pockets,

"If you live in a rural area and you are not willing to apply your talents to the science of killing, people there are going to think there's something wrong with you."

Please explain wheat the fuck that is supposed to mean, since I live in the country, and found people in the Big City to be more bloody-minded.
But then, I lived near "Crack Alley", where life is cheap, not anywhere near a Starbucks.

[Pockets]

20. I may have to disagree with you...

You are saying people in the city are bloody minded?

I must contend the opposite. What city are you thinking of, Indianapolis, Chicago, or another? Mid sized rural cities are more likely to be sustained by defense contractors... rural folks are more likely to hunt and fish as a hobby, which involves killing.

I'm not sure why you think people in the city are more bloody minded.

[hfojvt]

34. maybe because there have been 36 murders in KC this year

They are reported nightly on the news. Human life seems to be cheap, unlike in a rural area where lots of fish may meet their maker but murders are much rarer. Trust me, it is a shock to move to a metro area and suddenly hear about a new murder every other day and an armed robbery half a dozen times a day.

[BiggJawn]

47. Sheesh! How many MORE stereotypes can you trot out?

"rural folks are more likely to hunt and fish as a hobby, which involves killing. "

Oh, what a CROCK. If you want to take that to the ultimate in ludicrous, then city people win, because there's more city people who engage in non-procreative sex than us bumpkins, thus killing all those Sacred Sperms...
Do you have any hard numbers to back up your "more likely" bullshit?

I'm thinking of Indianapolis, since I lived there. 19th and Central, to be precise. "Crack Alley" was over in the MLK "Peace Park" (how ironic) at 22nd and Park. Gunfire Nightly.

But I gave that all up, loaded up the truck, put Granny up on top in her rocker next to Ellie Mae, and Jethro and me just headed out to the sticks, where we-uns can HUNT and FISH, and act SO barbaric with nary a Starbucks or other signs of Civilisation anywhere to be seen.

I just wish it'd warm up so's I kin use the CEE-ment pond out back. Maybe I can get Boeing to brink a jet motor over (you think they live here with us)and heat it up a taste.

[Pockets]

14. Since I'm one of the few democrats in my mainly rural family...

It would have been easy for me to fall into a RW lifestyle if I had never opened my mind to thinking about what life's really all about.

That is why I am suggesting that they deserve understanding. I think the majority of them just don't know any better.

[cry baby]

23. You're right...

I'm a southerner and a progressive. There are many here in Tn. I am originally from Tx and there are many progressives there, too. I am not stupid, ignorant, backward, illiterate, or any of the other things people have to say about southerners. People who bash the south forget that the whole middle of the country is red, too. How about we look at what we can do to change that instead of calling names and insults.

BTW, the suburbia southerners that I know that are bushies are just greedy or they are afraid they won't be seen by their neighbors as good Christians. Now they won't let go of * because they don't want to admit they were wrong.

[Pockets]

26. Thanks for following...

Let me add one more thing. In relation to my original point, the people in Red states (I know the definition is controversial) who are intelligent and technically minded are much more likely and persuaded to work for some big defense contractor, or at least try, because those types of business have a much larger presence there. Those who decide not to dedicate their lives to making weapons, or supporting their development, are more marginalized.

[cry baby]

28. I get'cha...

When I lived in Tx, many defense subcontractor companies were around there, plus a military base (which has since been closed).

Many times we say that red-staters vote against their own interests. Most really do, but those red-staters that work for the above mentioned companies, are voting for their interests.

I also think that whole communities that have these companies in their towns will vote red to save their towns even if the voters don't work for the subcontractors.

[Pockets]

36. They think they are voting for their best interests

When only a few coporations employ everyone they are incredibly scared of losing that job. In urban areas you could just get another job for an equally large and powerful company.

Overall it goes against their own philosophy of not living off the government.

[paula777]

27. So cry baby, do you think they really KNOW deep down that * is a fuck up

but they just won't admit it because then they would have to admit they were wrong?

[cry baby]

30. Yes.

That's what I think about my friends. Not all of them, but many. This may sound silly, but loads of my friends are "A" type personalities and are very competitive. They won't admit they are wrong even on PTO boards, much less something important like our govt. I think many also think if they abandon *, they won't be seen as good Christians. These aren't fundies either, just suburbia women that care what their neighbors think of them. God only knows what they think of me!?!

[Pockets]

31. Are you giving them too much credit?

Are they really familiar with politics? Maybe they don't know enough to have opinions to express.

On the other hand...

If they (or their husbands) work for right wing corporations, they also might be afraid of biting the hand that feeds them. I've seen this in small towns that are run by one or two corporations -- everyone is pro-corporation because they are the only ones providing them with their livelihood.

[cry baby]

35. If they aren't familiar with the issues, it's because they don't

want to know what is really happening. Because then they would have to change and that's "hard work".

[paula777]

33. That is so interesting to me. Do you think they felt that way prior to

November 04 elections or they are just now 'coming to'? (regarding him being a f-up) I think the right has done a great job in telling the Christians that we are the devil party and they are the moral party so I don't expect them to think otherwise any time soon. I just wonder if they had a chance to vote all over again, would they still vote for him even though they KNEW it would do them direct harm? Thanks for your input and also the original posters - I think it is so important that we understand why we aren't getting through to these people even though it is in their best interest to vote against the RW

[cry baby]

37. I think the more politics get heated up and polarized,

the more publicly "dug-in" these people become. I say "publicly" because in all honesty, I believe some, if they knew then what they know now, would secretly vote blue. But in order to insure their "good name in the community" might not admit how they voted (at least in today's inviornment).

I think to win over some suburbanites, we really need to show the truth of which party is really the moral party. We need to show them how Christ would have taken care of those in need and how He banished the moneychangers, etc., then they might follow His example.

If we ever hope to win these people over, we cannot continue to belittle Christians. That makes them dig-in even more. They put their fingers in their ears and begin to chant "LALALALA I can't hear you LALALA". If we can show the truth without belittling or demeaning, we can win them over.

[RPM]

29. I'm confused?!?!?!? IS it the Christians' fault or the rednecks' fault

poly-ticks shure is hard wurk.

edited for spelling ;-)

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donheld]

39. Can we who are in red states be hard on "red staters?"

We have to live with these people, if feel we have a right to tell it like we see it.

[still_one]

42. I am not against progressive red staters

they are the ones who will need to elicit the progressive changes

[HughBeaumont]

45. Unfortunately, NE Ohio couldn't pull the rest of the state

out of the hands of Uncle Tom Blackwell and the Apple Dumpling Gang that is the rest of the state besides Columbus and Athens. We did all we could. Blame the sisterbanging Suth'un and Western A-High'ns. You'll know the counties by areas where most of the manufacturing jobs left. Cuyahoga, which suffered the most, got the wisest, thank you.