So, I'm trashing Windows completely and going with Linux... [NEWBIE ALERT]

[youspeakmylanguage]

I'm inheriting a computer in two weeks. It's the first personal computer I've owned since college (5+ years) and I've decided to format the hard drive and send Windows XP to the lowest pits of hell. I'm going to turn the PC into a dedicated Linux machine! Except I've never used any version of Linux before. I already know this will lead to weeks or even months of frustration, but I'm ready! Now I just need to choose a distro...

I'm a stickler for streamlined and elegant programming. I also want a distro that has a gradual (not easy or hard) learning curve and a rock-solid foundation. I DO NOT want a ton of applications - in fact, I will probably only be using the Mozilla suite, an FTP client, a graphic design program, and a word processor - nothing else!

I'm thinking of going with either VectorLinux or Cobind. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks!

[whistle]

1. How much will all of this cost you?

[youspeakmylanguage]

6. I'm getting the PC for free...

inheriting it from a relative that passed away.

Since I'm formatting the HD from the get-go, I'll need to order the distro on CD. That seems to cost anywhere from $10 to $80 depending on which one I choose.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. I do.

I have used Mandriva(Ex-Mandrake) Linux for several years now. It has matured into quite the excellent distro. Very easy installation, packed with software and features and a very user-friendly desktop.

I highly recommend it.

Others you can try, that are easy and free, are Suse, Mepis and a few of the others you can find here:

http://www.distrowatch.com

[Madrone]

5. second mandrake -

unless you want to try full on unix - then it's FreeBSD!

[BlueEyedSon]

3. SuSe 9.2

1. It seems to work well.
2. The install was easy enough.
3. I D/Led it for free.

Disclaimers: It's my first and only experience with Linux (nothing to compare it to, but also no background expertise to draw on). I am a computer guy.

PS there is a DU computer help/support group, you might want to post there instead of/in addition to GD.

[Dob Bole]

4. I'd recommend Mandrake also...

either that or SuSe Linux. Both use the KDE desktop, which is....well, pretty. I un-recommend RedHat.

[youspeakmylanguage]

7. I appreciate the responses so far...

...but it is my understanding that SuSE and Mandrake are both bloated distros with tons of apps included. I'm looking for a user-friendly streamlined distro.

But thank you again for taking the time to respond to a newbie! It is much appreciated!

[negativenihil]

9. ps!

PS- the only time SuSE is "bloated" is if you have the installer install EVERYTHING. you are free to pick and choose what apps are initally installed.

also - mandrake is simply a repackaged and slightly optimised (for pentium) version of redhat

[youspeakmylanguage]

12. Very cool!

No one told me you could pick and choose the programs. I may just go with SuSE then - it seems to be the best (and most expensive).

[Dob Bole]

21. I think Suse 9.2 is free...

if you download it from the Internet. Suse doesn't release all of its versions for free, but I believe 9.2 is, and it's pretty recent.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

26. Bullshit.

Totally untrue. All their development and packaging is in-house.

Please, know what you are talking about when you make such claims.

[Dob Bole]

13. try Knoppix.

It runs from a CD. If you like it, you'll like Mandrake. You can choose during the installation process what to install...just choose KDE desktop only and eliminate games and other apps from the configuration if you want.

[firefox]

23. Agreed, try Knoppix first

You can run Knoppix from a CD by setting the BIOS to read from the CD drive before the hard drive. Windows will not load and you can experience Linux without going cold turkey on Windows- http://tinyurl.com/dn5sb

[negativenihil]

8. SuSE may be the way to go

Hello! from the sound of your post, I'd say SuSE Linux might be a good fit. I've found it to be most flexible for both the novice and the power user. You have the option to use all kinds of wizards and graphical things to modify settings - plus if you want to get your hands dirty and start editing things by hand it will have no negative impact on the wizards and such.

however - one thing you've said goes against the SuSE grain - and that is your desire for not too many applications. SuSE tends to throw in everything plus the kitchen sink with the full 7cd/dvd release.

[jayfish]

10. I Have Been Playing With Debian and MEPIS...

for a few weeks and be be honest, I'm not sold on linux just yet. It's slow, has limited HW support and is a bit, well, clunky. It is nice to look at and comes with gobs decent of appz., but iduuno. It reminds me of WFW 3.11. It might be ready (for me)in a few years though.

Jay

[negativenihil]

11. ew debian...

I wouldn't use Debian as any sort of benchmark for Linux on the whole. The userbase is full of zelots and the stable version is full of outdated code.

[jayfish]

18. I Noticed The "Zealot" Aspect...

as well. After a weekend of straight Debian I just deleted both linux partitions from my drive. Strange thing is that MEPIS is based on Debian and it is MUCH better all the way around. Especially during the initial install.


Jay

[Ready4Change]

16. I'm playing with Mepis

You can test run it off the CD-ROM, and if you like it, install it on the HD. It detected nearly all of my hardware fine.

On two machines I had 2 separate, really old peices of hardware. One ancient NIC, another ancient sound card. Replaced both with slightly newer no-name cards and everythings fine now. I'm actually fairly impressed with the hardware recognition.

Unlike my previous attempts at using Linux, Mepis has remained stable through most of my experimentation. That's impressive as I am pretty clueless. (Improving, though. :) )

It installs with the apps you've mentioned wanting to use. The default installs a lot of other apps as well. I don't recall if you can avoid that or not.

Finally, if you know someone with a fast web connection and a CD burner, you can download a disk image and burn an install disk at no charge.

I'd say its worth a try.

[youspeakmylanguage]

14. One more newbie question...

If I go with one distro and then decide down the road that I would prefer another, how hard would it be to switch? Would I have to reformat the HD and completely start over?

[Tux]

17. Generaly, yes

Each distro can be thought of as a separate OS. All they have in common is the Linux kernel so each distro does make changes to things such as locations of certain files and what not.

[negativenihil]

20. switching distros

Yes, to move between distros the easiest way is to start fresh. however, there are usually options to rpeserve partitions you've created so they aren't over-written (like your homr directory partition as example)

[Tux]

15. I recommend this

http://www.ubuntulinux.org/

It's on one CD either from download or wait awhile for the free CD to arrive in the mail. Very simple installation, has the programs you need, yet allows you to install more for free.

[ibid]

24. I've used this - works very well - CD took a few weeks to come n/t

n/t

[longship]

19. Advice for newbie

I kicked Windows NT off my computer in 1994 and haven't looked back since.

As a noob, you should consider the learning curve and the hassle factor. One of the main issues is package management. Even if you only want a few apps, you will have to do some periodic maintenance which will include updates. Debian's package management is known for its hassle-free abilities. So, in spite of the fact that its known as a hacker's distribution, a Debian-based distribution might be beneficial to you. Slackware is a great distro--it's what I started with way back when--but it uses non-standard conventions and has little package management. Noobies generally have many more problems with Slack because of these differences.

I would suggest looking into one of the Debian-based distributions, like Libranet or Ubuntu. My choice would be Ubuntu because it's free and it uses fairly cutting edged stuff from Debian's testing and unstable branches. Note that unstable is just the name of the development branch, not an indication of package quality.

Another consideration is desktop environment. Some distributions use KDE, some use Gnome, some give you a choice. I would suggest that you look at the various X environments and decide which approach suits you more. KDE is very Windows XP-like; Gnome is more Unix-like. Then, there's other environments, like Enlightenment, which is what I use.

Good luck and have fun.

[youspeakmylanguage]

22. Thank you...

I know this will be an involved and very frustrating process, but I'm preparing myself for that in advance. Thank you for the great advice.

[kansasblue]

25. Linux

I've had Suse before and was using a dual boot. You can keep Window and run Linux. There are some times you might need Windows for some applications.

I'm no fan of Billy-ware and I so wanted Linux to work. I really gave it try but ended back on Windows. It had problem with device drivers. I'm interested in trying it again.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

27. As regards device drivers:

What are called "drivers" in the Windows realm is a function of the "kernel" of Linux. Yes, in the past, there were some issues with hardware support. But with the 2.6 kernel and it's(and Linux') widespread adoption, increasing the developer base and support from HW manufacturers, these are problems that have largely gone away.

These days, I find a Linux (Mandriva) install to be a lot easier than a Windows install. I setup an Athlon64 system, Nforce3 motherboard with Mandriva x86_64, yesterday. Everything just...worked.

I would say that things have changed.

[bvar22]

28. Ubuntu rocks for me!

So many flavors to choose from.
Last month, I installed 11 different flavors of Linux, looking for the best fit.

You can go here and download ISO's of all these versions and try them out FOR FREE!!

http://www.linuxiso.org /


For my rather generic box, only three versions recognized almost all my hardware, and installed without hassles.

SuSE 9.1
Knoppix...Kanotix
Ubuntu

The sole hardware exception common to all versions was my scanner (HPScanjet 4470C on USB). Most versions correctly identified the scanner, but the software interface failed to initialize. In Linux defense, my scanner is NOT on the hardware compatibility lists.

I really like Mandrake, and worked hard to get it installed, but was unable to get my Net Card working. I even bought and installed a NetCard that was on the Mandrake Hardware Compatibility list and no luck. During BOOT always the same error message {NET CARD eth0....FAILED}. I spent several late nights trying to "build a kernal with a tarball"..lots of fun, but no success yet. Someone with more Linux experience could get this working.



I also downloaded and installed :

Mandrake 10,,,10.1...10.2(peek)

Debian 3r4 (install options confusing for me)

Fedora Core 3 (would like to try again)

Slackware 10.0 (over my head)

Lycoris (almost a disaster...maybe a bad disk)

Knoppix...cool and easy

Kanotix Bug Hunter(a Knoppix knock off update)

SuSE 9.1 (smooth and easy)

Ubuntu 4.1 (Warty) (elegant, my favorite)

Many of these have released a "LIVE" disk that you can run from the CD. Simply boot your box from the CD and get a look at the fully functional distro. Of course, it is slow, but you can get an idea if your hardware is compatible.

Distros known to have a "LIVE disk:
Knoppix
Kanotix
SuSE
Ubuntu


My suggestions for playing with Linux without trashing WinDoze.
I am migrating from WinXP, and will be using WinXP as my primary OS until I am comfortable with Linux.

Partition Magic 8.0 has a tool to partition the HardDrive for Linux installations.
Partition Magic 8.0 is available for download over the Net for about $32.00. I used it without problems.
AVOID LETTING THE LINUX INSTALL PROGRAM PARTITION YOUR HARD DRIVE.
Windows utilities or Partition Magic may not be able to undo partioning performed by Linux install programs.

PartitionMagic doesn't run well from within WinXP, so you will probably have to boot from the PMagic floppy to create the Linux Partitions. Put the Linux partitions at the end of your HardDrive (or on a 2nd HardDrive). I am using about 7 Gigs for the Linux partitions and that is way more than enough.

(I have a small hidden partition with a bare bones WinME. I can boot to WinME and use PartitionMagic8.0 to set up the Linux Partitions without ANY problems)


Almost all of the Linux Installs recognized the pre-partitioned Linux Partitions and asked if this is where I wanted to Install. Say YES.
(Note: Fedora Core was vague at this point in the install, so I backed out, not willing to risk my Windows partitions).

Linux will automatically install a boot loader (Grub or Lilo) that will let you choose either Windows or Linux at boot.
Both worked on my system without problems.




Removing Linux from your Box without trashing Windows
Easy.

Step 1) Use LILO (or Grub) to boot to your Windoze System and use PartitionMagic to delete the Linux Partitions. If you are using XP, you will probably need to boot from the PMagic floppy (since XP seems to hate PartitionMagic).

Step 2) Boot from a floppy that contains the Dos partition utility FDISK, and type FDISK /MBR. This will remove the Linux boot loader (Lilo or Grub).
My system was ALWAYS restored to the regular Windows configuration after these two steps.

Caution Note: My DOS boot floppy is from WinME and contains the latest preXP FDISK command. I don't believe XP comes with FDISK, so make sure you have a BOOT Floppy that has a functional FDISK utility that can work with large Hard Drives. I KNOW the FDISK in ME will work. I believe that Win98se DOS Floppy will work, but cannot vouch for it. FDISK was unable to read or delete the Linux Partitions, PMagic was necessary.

I have read online that you can use the XP BOOT CONSOLE to restore the MBR (master boot record), but I have never used that method.


Summary: After looking at the versions listed above, I preferred UBUNTU. UBUNTU diverges a little from traditional Linux in the methods of logging on as SU, but is conceptually consistent. SuSE was equally as functional, my choice was subjective. I currently use Ubuntu to browse the Internet and play with the Linux system. I am still using XP for my Graphics Software and Games.


Linux has a HUGE online community that is very helpful.
I have bought a How To book on the nuts and bolts of Linux (Inside Linux, Tobler) and am working my way through, learning to work from the command line. The Learning Curve is steep and a little frustrating at times, and I have background in Command Line Dos. But overall, it is fun. I am learning the system of the future and can always boot to WinXP when necessary.

Good Luck.
Remember to have FUN!