"Iraq bombshell this morning" re: Bush's prewar planning.

[iconoclastic cat]

I think this should be spread far and wide:

*************
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/1/115530/0288
Bush / Iraq Bombshell This Morning
by smintheus


Sun May 1st, 2005 at 11:55:30 EDT

The bombshell from the British papers this morning has had virtually no impact yet on D Kos, and I'm curious to know why it has not turned American politics upside down already. The leaked memo from the Prime Minister's office of a secret meeting (July 23, 2002) shows that after consulting with Bush and his administration, the British leaders met to strategize about an invasion of Iraq that Bush had already decided upon (months before the Congressional resolution)! The memo reveals the depths of cynicism of both the US and UK governments. For ex., the UK head of intelligence reports that for the Bush admin "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy". Much of the memo is devoted to developing a strategy to provoke a war against Iraq, and the problem that there was no apparent justification for it. The Foreign Secretary said "the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran." More on the flip, with a link to the evidence.

Diaries :: smintheus's diary :: :: Trackback ::

The leaked memo shows that Blair's idea was to demand the return of weapons' inspectors; if Hussein refused, that would provide a pretext for war, and if he admitted them then they might find some sort of grounds for war. The memo also indicates that by July 2002 the US military had already stepped up attacks against Iraq for the express purpose of provoking that war outright. The British thought the Bush administration wanted to barge right into a war (timed around the fall elections), so the Brits were hoping to persuade Bush to use diplomacy to fabricate a pretext for war. The British Attorney General indicated that the only grounds for an invasion that were even remotely plausible was an old UN resolution. Blair indicated that Bush wanted to make a case against Hussein for WMD tied to terrorism.

This is colossal in my opinion; so why are we not already talking about 'Iraqgate' in this country? The Bush administration at this date was dismissing talk of an Iraq war as a figment of journalists' imagination; throughout the next eight months Bush & Co. continued to pretend that the decision had yet to be made. So this story blows wide open Bush's pretense of being a straight-shooter. Most fundamentally, it exposes his contempt for democratic process.

Here is a link to my diary from last night on the memo, which just scrolled away into the aether. It links to the text of the memo, and to stories in The Independent and in The Sunday Times.

*************
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2005/5/1/115530/0288/64#64


Press Conference, March 6, 2003 (none / 1)
by lecsmith on Sun May 1st, 2005 at 13:04:15 EDT

"Ann."

Q Mr. President, if you decide to go ahead with military action, there are inspectors on the ground in Baghdad. Will you give them time to leave the country, or the humanitarian workers on the ground or the journalists? Will you be able to do that, and still mount an effective attack on Iraq?

THE PRESIDENT: Of course. We will give people a chance to leave. And we don't want anybody in harm's way who shouldn't be in harm's way. The journalists who are there should leave. If you're going, and we start action, leave. The inspectors -- we don't want people in harm's way. And our intention -- we have no quarrel with anybody other than Saddam and his group of killers who have destroyed a society. And we will do everything we can, as I mentioned -- and I mean this -- to protect innocent life.

I've not made up our mind about military action. Hopefully, this can be done peacefully. Hopefully, that as a result of the pressure that we have placed -- and others have placed -- that Saddam will disarm and/or leave the country."

The rest of the press conference text is well worth reading. Bush is masterful at his presenting his deceitful case for invading Iraq.

Click here for Bush's March 6, 2003 Press Conference

*************

Damn. Read some of the other replies, too.

[74dodgedart]

1. Bump--links

This is big, of course the Freepers will say it doesn't matter, but clearly Bush was lying..

Direct link to leaked memo at The Times:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1593607,00.html

Times article:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1592724,00.html

[iconoclastic cat]

2. Thanks for the links!

[havocmom]

10. Good stuff. Many thanks.

The problem is how do we convince the US population to face reality. Most folks just have to believe their loved ones are in danger, or lost, for a damned good reason. The junta counts on that little bit of psychology to get by with the lies. People believe because they cannot face the real evil that the American government has done.

How do we get them to face reality? More pictures of coffins on the nightly news? That is one lesson from Viet Nam that the neocons learned: don't let the people see the magnitude of the horrors.

[FreedomAngel82]

23. Only way I can think

to get this out is by word of mouth. If you're out just go out with someone and casually act like you're telling your friend for the first time. Word of mouth is the only way these days. Maybe now we can put pressure on Congress and the Senate to get us out of Iraq and impeachment for Bush and his whole administration since they all lied to us and lying to Congress and Senate is illegal.

[magellan]

43. From what I can discern of that hellhole called FR

...the Freeps aren't touching the revelations from Blair's secret minutes OR the Pentagon's Italian shooting report "oops". Neither topic shows up on their news page.

It's very odd, isn't it? These documents prove that their man Bush** -- who pledged to "restore honor and integrity to the White House" -- and his administration have lied to America on several and far more serious occasions than Clinton, yet the Freeps are mum. I thought they were the party of ethics and morals?

Maybe they need to ask themselves "If these were Democrats what would we be doing?" and go from there.

[proud patriot]

3. Take the house back in 06 Impeach in 07

:grr:

[iconoclastic cat]

5. This will mean nothing if it is not yelled and screamed about.

[fishwax]

95. absolutely right. everyone should commence yelling and screaming

[havocmom]

13. That makes fixing the election fraud methods job one in 05. (n/t)

[Paul Dlugokencky]

44. Fix Fraud or Flounder

Hear, hear, havocmom. If we don't fix the fraudulent election machinery, if votes are not actually counted, we don't have a democracy. We won't have any reasonable hope of substantial, wide-spread change.



http://www.cafepress.com/kickindemocrats

[Vincardog]

84. EGGZZZZACTLY Fight the Fraud nt

[blogbear]

21. Sounds like a plan unless something better happens sooner!

[FreedomAngel82]

24. Or even better

take back the House and impeachment by the end of 2006! The whole fucking administration should go to jail.

[holboz]

91. Amen! From the DU message board to God's ears

I pray that this country will be frustrated enough to clean out what we can in 2006 and go for impeachment. It will be a grave injustice if this administration does not answer for its reckless actions and dispicable lies.

HAVE YOU NO SENSE OF DECENCY, SIR?

[info being]

102. Fix fraud. Declare this promise to the voters. And document the case.

Welcome back Dems.

Unfortunately I don't expect them to do this because they don't have the killer instinct..

[MasonJar]

4. Bush is worse than the mold on the back of my house.

[iconoclastic cat]

6. Be sure to read all the comments! Lots of info that I did not know.

[kentuck]

7. It is a bombshell but the American media...

will pass over it just like they would a dead child by the side of the road...

[Karenina]

12. Unless the child were white and blonde...

[Guckert]

39. We will only hear about it if there is a missing bride holding the document

[Double T]

8. It's Only A Matter Of Time Before The Truth Will Be Known To All......

.....Prepare The Shackles And Impeachment Bumper Stickers. The Frickin
Idiot Is A Total Shame And History Will Make It So.

[FreedomAngel82]

25. I hope so

There have been some strange things going on here so one can hope and pray. Maybe all of the former Bush supporters and republicans will hear this and be pissed off and will want to act. Nobody likes being lied to.

[PowerToThePeople]

9. I bet everyone on this board

knew he would invade. I knew the day he got selected that we would be in Iraq. But, if there is documented evidence now, he needs impeached.

[KoKo]

63. Yes...and we sent letters and e-mails to the UN Delegates and we faxed

phoned and e-mailed through MoveOn where thousands of communications were delivered to the UN protesting against the Iraq Invasion. And, we went to protests before the War and after. Because we knew... All over the world people knew this was a Lie. But, the media and most of our politicians were for it. And Blair and Bush were in bed with each other in concocting it. It makes you wonder, doesn't it? Is Tony Blar part of the PNAC...thinking that linking with Bush would secure Great Britain in part of the "New American/British Century?" :puke: this makes me sick.

Nothing will be done...and those of us who have lived with this don't even get pleasure out of being proved correct. It's hollow...because Bush and Blair will get off, unless the Brits vote Blair out. That's the only hope.

[MnFats]

11. I am shocked! Shocked, I tell you.

Who'da thunk it?
Actually the only surprise is that this slipped out.
there will be hell to pay for the "leakers"

[understandinglife]

14. MissionNOTAcccomplished - May 2 2005 is just the beginning of our....

........www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[applegrove]

15. This is old. Of course Blair slowed them down. n/t

[slaveplanet]

37. yep..Bilderberg infiltrators

annouced the start of the war would be feb/march of 2003. They announced this around the same time frame as these memos (July 2002)...old news

it only seems new because nobody listened as usual...it will happen again...because no one will listen again , the preferred tactic is to whine about it after the fact.

[Hosnon]

16. SEE THIS IS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT -

See my post in GD about my "Forum Idea" - this would be PERFECT to pin up and have hang around.

[iconoclastic cat]

17. Link?

[Hosnon]

18. Hmmm, never linked before but I'll give it a try:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3580248

Reply if you like to give it a kick.

[Disturbed]

19. "How do we get them to face reality?"

The Dem Party should make a Video of the Bush Junta liars spouting about WMDs and then statements about no WMDs. A succint, simple Video that shows how they lied run on the Lame Stream Media and the Net.

[FreedomAngel82]

27. Oh yes

That would be good. And maybe make one that can be turned into an ad and have it playing in every city. Not just swing state's but every last city in this country. Can anybody here make a video like that? Maybe we can get started on it now and use the internet.

[FreedomAngel82]

26. Yep

Hopefully all the democratic people running for Senate and Congress can run on this issue and can show how the republicans have lied and abused power and we have to work together to get this country back. You just can't trust republicans with power. Everything that is going on now proves that. The whole DeLay thing (changing the rules), Schavio and invading Iraq.

[iconoclastic cat]

20. A great summary of why this is important:

************
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2005/5/1/115530/0288/188/

I did not have sex with that woman..... (none / 1)

That was Bill Clinton's impeachable offense. He lied to the American people.

Well according to the latest leaked memo from July 2002:

"C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action."

Now, on October 9, 2002, Bush told the American people that "war was not inevitable". This was a lie.

A tale of two liars. One told a personal lie that hurt no one but his wife and daughter. He was impeached. The other told a lie that led to war, caused death and destruction, has bankrupt the country and torn the world apart. He sits in the White House, a good old boy, laughing it up at the White House Correspondents dinner.

When will he be held accountable? I fear the answer is - never.

by landrew on Sun May 1st, 2005 at 17:23:00 EDT
*********

[FreedomAngel82]

22. If you visit

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info they have an article up that tells Bush was talking about this back in 1999 even before he was president! This should be all over the news here but of course that darn "liberal media" isn't doing their job. :eyes: :mad: Damn Bush and Blair to hell.

[hector459]

28. This is COLOSSAL. But with run-away brides to report on the MSM has its

hands full. They wouldn't dare report on anything that matters especially if it puts Bush and his band of thugs in a bad light. I say we print fliers of this leaked memo and spread them far and wide. Mail them to everyone you know, even RW family and friends. I would especially mail them to the families of soldiers fighting in Iraq and the families of those killed in Iraq. The only thing that will get attention is if the families of the military revolt and protest publicly. March in the streets of Washington. Call every talk show you can think of and hammer the questions about this leaked info. It's up to us!!! Nobody else! "If it is to be, it's up to me."

[FreedomAngel82]

98. Exactly

That's why they're still talking about Laura Bush's little "comedy" act (even though she didn't write any of it). It makes me so freaking mad how they're pumping up Laura but they tell Hillary and Teresa to "sit down and shut up." I hate these people!

[TexasChief]

29. Where is the media?

Why the Hell is this not the front-page headline for every newspaper in the US? Here it is, absolute proof that Bush lied about the reasons for going to war. People should be out in the streets demanding impeachment. If this is not the smoking gun to show the world that the invasion of Iraq was illegal, then what would it take? This is proof that they all lied to us: Bush, Cheney, Powell, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld. These people knew that the only way the US would support a war was to claim that we were defending this country and its allies against weapons of mass destruction. The utter waste of hundreds of thousands of lives, 1580 US troops, 200+ billion dollars, the US standing as a world leader all lost to the Iraqi desert just to prove that Bush could do something his father could not. No matter how bad Saddam really was, we will go down in history as the aggressors and torturers in this war. George Bush lied to the people of this country and he should be held accountable for the Iraqi nightmare, the nightmare that he created.

[Disturbed]

30. Will the Dem Party ignore this like they have almost everything

else? The Lame Stream Media is no longer viable. I sure hope that someone can create a Video that points out the Bush Junta lies about the illegal invasion of Iraq and the Occupation. If the Dem Party won't do it perhaps MoveOn.org will.

[newyawker99]

31. Hi TexasChief!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[iconoclastic cat]

33. Damn right. And welcome to DU!

:headbang:

[DearAbby]

34. Welcome & Hi TexasChief..Excellent first Post!

:hi: :applause:

[ktowntennesseedem]

52. Media's too busy reporting serious news,

such as Michael Jackson, Desparate Housewives, American Idol, Survivor, and missing brides. America doesn't have time to be bothered with trivia such as this.

Move along folks, nothing to see here. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...

Welcome to DU, the realm of irony and sarcasm!!!!

:hi:

[fishwax]

97. makes ya sick, don't it?

Last night I flipped through the news channels, just a few seconds apiece, but long enough to know they were all reporting from duluth, ga. and covering the runaway bride. Cuz there's nothing else going on. :sarcasm::crazy::puke:

[ktowntennesseedem]

104. Coming up in our next half hour...

an exclusive interview with the gilted groom's third-cousin's next-door-neighbor's hair-stylist on how the runaway bride has affected her, and what hair-style she would recommend for the bride if they ever do go through with the wedding.

:puke:

[fishwax]

96. this story convicts the media of incompetence

in the months leading up to war. Since plenty of people, including most on this forum, knew and posted facts to demonstrate bush already had his mind made up, and yet they gave the administration a pass continually. If the media reports it now, they'll be highlighting their own lack of initiative. Eventually, if we make enough noise, they'll have no choice.

[Beam Me Up]

32. Why no Iraqgate? Why no Gannongate? Why no SSgate?

Why no Votergate 2000? Why no Votergate 2002? Why no Votergate 2004? Why no Lay/Enrongate? Why no 9/11gate? Why no Anthraxgate? Why no Halliburtongate? Why no Plamegate? On and on and on.

Does anyone actually think the right-wing Corporate Owned News (CON) has its collective head stuck up its conglomerate ass?

I don't. I think they know DAMN WELL the news they are NOT reporting and why.

At what point do we begin to hold the executives of these news organizations as COCONSPIRATORS in treason, war crimes and crimes against humanity?

[jasop]

73. And I ask along with you.. Why. Why, Why!!!! n/t

[Beam Me Up]

77. A: Corporate Owned Networks CO-CONSPIRATORS in Treason, War Crimes and

Crimes against Humanity.

If corporations are persons and if persons can be held legally accountable for their actions then it should follow that corporations in the form of their boards of directors can and should be held legally accountable for crimes they aid and abet.



edit spelling

[Tace]

35. It Occurs To Me That The Only Thing That Could Help Bushco...

is if we have a severe energy crisis in this country before he leaves office. Then, he can say that he was justified in invading Iraq to secure the oil fields for the United States, which is what I believe was a big part of their real reason for the invasion. Everything about Bushco military actions has been about securing oil for the United States for the rest of the century.

[Festivito]

36. And a year before his NEXT press conference.

No wonder he had his little chat the other day. This along with more on 9/11 stuff on CSPAN yesterday.

The Sunday pundits are all done for the week.

Bush admin will dilly dally quietly in background mode while the news gets old.

[FreedomAngel82]

99. So true

CSPAN tried to hide the 9/11 event I think. I went to their site to see if they were going to re-air it later that evening and the whole page on the tv schedule was blank.

[understandinglife]

38. Check out DUer 'Jara sang' - "List of War Profiteers' Sites Around the US"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3581798&mesg_id=3581798

And, here's something to motivate you to spend MNA Day 1, May 2 2005, letting those folk know what you think:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3581511

www.missionnotaccomplished.us - May 2 2005 is just THE BEGINNING OF MNA

[Nothing Without Hope]

40. For a case study in how they steamrolled people with ethics, see

what happened in February 2003 to the UK Attorney General, sent to the US to be bullied by the top US neocon lawyers. It's a truly chilling story that should be read by all of us to see not only how they apply pressure (and I believe blackmail is used too when possible). IIt also explains why they love corrupt bullies like Bolton and Gonzales. It's all legal, see?

Must-read, in my opinion - another aspect of this story:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1755978
Thread title: "Guardian: How the UK was persuaded that the Iraq invasion was legal"

[Raksha]

41. I didn't think anything could shock me about this administration any more

but this does: >>The memo reveals the depths of cynicism of both the US and UK governments. For ex., the UK head of intelligence reports that for the Bush admin "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy".<<

The intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.

Unfreakinbelievable! Those words just jumped off the screen at me and I can't stop repeating them to myself.

The intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.

Not the other way around. It's not that I'm so naive I didn't know this from the beginning. I realized during the buildup to the war that no credible evidence of Saddam's alleged WMD program was being presented, nothing beyond the repeated assertions on the part of the Bush administration that it was so.

What shocks me is that the head of British intelligence would actually come out and say it like that, and also that they knew a casus belli was being fabricated and apparently went along with it. WHY???

Now to read the article more carefully and hopefully find some kind of explanation, but I just had to vent first.

[cyberpj]

60. The intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.

That line needs to be the HEADLINE of any article written about this.

[Raksha]

86. I totally agree--it should be the headline! n/t

[dsnail]

42. Government Spin and the Iraq War

Rebutting Gordon Brown: The Attorney General's Legal Advice,
Government Spin and the Iraq War (Part II)
by Milan Rai
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Apr05/Rai0429.htm

Milan Rai has written two books about the Iraq war that are essential reading:

"War Plan Iraq" (Verso Books, 2003)

and

"Regime Unchanged" (Pluto Press, 2004)

Rai is a member of Justice Not Vengeance, a leading British anti-war group whose website has many valuable briefing papers rebutting state/media propaganda spins on the war and occupation:
http://www.j-n-v.org/

The material is, of course, quite relevant to us here in the US

[Danascot]

45. That was the beginning, here's the end...

Bob Herbert's column in todauy's NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/02/opinion/02herbert.html

[Don1]

46. Don't Assume

that when Bush said "I've not made up our mind about military action," he was talking about PNAC or his political cronies. It could easily also be that he was talking about making up his own mind along with everyone else he talks to in his head, i.e. God. So, he really meant:
"I've not made up my and God's mind about military action."

[sickem]

47. Yes, this is HUGE

Not only is it HUGE because it exposes George Bush as a liar and a criminal, it also confirms a Congressional cover up. We just had a supposedly "bi-partisan" committee that was supposed to be investigating Bush and company's use of WMD intel tell us that there was no wrongdoing on their part. Now we have the head of British intelligence saying "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy". So which is it?

I think it's time for a special prosecutor. It's time for Bush and Blair and about a dozen others to take the stand and testify under oath. After Bush is impeached and tried for his war crimes and safely tucked away in a prison cell somewhere we need to investigate this Congressional cover-up. It should make Watergate look like a tea party.

[lonestarnot]

53. Yes this is what SHOULD happen, but when they own all the machinery

the only way it is GOING to happen is through peaceful constant exposure and protest. And in that the "peaceful" dissent is just that...It isn't going to happen.

[Karmadillo]

48. The Democrats will make an issue of this, right? They'll hammer

away nonstop, right? They'll stage walkouts, they'll stage slowdowns, they'll talk, talk, talk until the American people know just what happened, right? They do everything they can to make sure the media is forced to deal with this, right?

[cyberpj]

49. Apparently NOT unless WE hammer THEM!

It seems we have to kickstart them before they'll get out there and fight - except for Dean, of course. But you can't always assume they know about anything that's not in the American press. It has to be pushed right under their noses many times.

[ClassWarrior]

56. Agreed. That needs to be one of our operating premises.

It's a pain in the ass, but it's a pain we need bear if we want to win. At this point, a lot of the elected Dems - basically good people - are riding on inertia. Until we elect some sparkplugs, we can just assume that we need to give them a jolt when we want something done.

NGU.

[FreedomAngel82]

101. I think the only way

they will is if we pressure them. Look what happened with Barbara Boxer and Ohio ec votes. Tons of people wrote, called, fax'd etc. and she did it. We have to do that now. We have to write every democratic person in DC and demand they stand up to this.

[newportdadde]

50. This won't go anywhere.

The media won't touch this, no way. Now back to your regularly scheduled news.

More on the Runaway Brides favorite all time songs.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

51. Who owns the media? That's your answer.

[ClassWarrior]

54. Don't trivialize this by calling it "a lie"!!

Say, "Bush** betrayed the American people's trust!!"

Everybody lies. There are little white lies. We all know politicians lie to one degree or another. Saying Bush** lied isn't sticking. People are okay with some lies, and they can justify Bush**'s crimes away.

Nobody, however, wants a Preznit who betrays their trust.

Reframe, reframe, reframe...

NGU.

[spooked911]

55. He LIED!!!! IMPEACH! IMPEACH!

Why are Republicans covering this guy's sorry ass if they aren't all corrupt?

[ClassWarrior]

57. (see above)

NGU.

[wtmusic]

58. Ho-hum

and wasn't Junior's comment, "F*ck Saddam, we're taking him out" reported over two years ago in nothing less than TIME magazine?

The problem isn't Junior, who is a war criminal but not a very shrewd one. It's the people who don't care enough to do anything about him.

[Roland99]

59. Dems take over the Congress in '06...START THE IMPEACHMENT!!

[KoKo]

61. Dems will never Impeach over Iraq Invasion. Most voted for it...and

Politicians don't like being caught out. None of them. This is so huge, it goes to the foundations of our Constitution. Blair and Bush LIED us into war.

If Blair goes down over this we might have a chance...if he surives then Bush survives. It's up to the Brits...to save us from ourselves.

[Roland99]

68. NO ONE voted FOR the war! DAMNIT! Stop with that meme already!

They voted for authorization to use force, IF NECESSARY.

Force was NOT necessary! * fucked us over and fucked us over hard. Besides, the vote was meaningless. He was going to go to war no matter what.

[Itsthetruth]

72. Congress Voted To Circumvent The Constitution And Invade Iraq

23 Senators voted against giving Bush a free hand to invade Iraq.

John Kerry was not one of them. Kerry voted to circumvent the Constitution and give Bush to power to invade Iraq without a Congressional declaration of war.

The vote was not meaningless. If a majority of Senators had voted against the war resolution that would have prevented Bush from invading Iraq. Under the Constitution, Bush would have been required to go before Congress with a Declaration of War. It's unlikely Congress would have passed such a declaration.

[Fire Walk With Me]

82. I blinked in disbelief at that.. The Constitution became meaningless

They basically all agreed that they didn't have to do it the way they're required to do, by law.

They basically agreed that the rules don't matter. I smelled a ton of baksheesh that day, and the end of the rules as we'd known them.

Now we have "pre-emptive nukulear strike" capability. Bring 'em on.

[KoKo]

75. That was "parsing language" to keep in good with the Anti-Iraq Invasion

activists who were pressuring Dems to stand up against Bush...because we KNEW they voted for a lie.

Our Dems wanted to invade Iraq almost as much as the Repugs...and in fact several of them actually support PNAC...i.e. Lieberman and the ones allied with the Corporate interests for oil. Dodd and others.

Kerry either supported it because he was running for President or he had a sudden sympathy with getting rid of Saddam (He did NOT vote for Gulf War I). But, John Edwards was firmly committed to the Iraq Invasion. I know, because he's my Senator and the way he treated those of us against the invasion was proof enough that it wasn't because he was running for President, but because he truly believed in "Regime Change." Many other Dems did and do to this day believe that our presense in the Middle East is important.

They will never impeach Bush over Iraq because they supported Bush and Blair in this even if it was a Lie...

[Roland99]

85. The only thing the Dems are guilty of is being naive

They were sold a bill of goods by this administration. The Congress was not aware of the stovepiping going on by Feith's OSP.

[Itsthetruth]

94. Democratic Leaders Can Be Sold A Bill Of Goods?

"The only thing the Dems are guilty of is being naive They were sold a bill of goods by this administration."

Are they really that naive? I think it's naive to believe that!

We were not fooled before, during and since the invasion.

If Democratic Party leaders like Reid, Kerry, Biden, Clinton, etc., are really that uninformed and can be so easily misled by the Bush government how in the world can we trust them as leaders? Why, they should not even be elected to a local city council much less United States Senators or President!

[alfredo]

62. Push this story.

I have mailed it out with instructions to contact CNN and the MSM asking them why aren't they shouting this from the rooftops.

[paineinthearse]

64. "which just scrolled away into the aether"

I'd like to make a comment on this phenomenon. It happens all to often in in DU, too.

Too often I have seen "bombshell" posts that "just scrolled away into the aether". What could cause this?

1. These are "too far ahead" of current thinking, so readers do not assimilate.
2. They are ignored because the subject line in not "sensational".
3. They are lost in the forest due to being crowded out by too many trite posts.

I offer no solutions other then to expand your horizons, read forums other than your "home turf", write subject lines that will catch the readers' eyes and refrain from starting new threads, especially "topic du jour" type, when many others alread exist and could be easily apended to.

[fob]

65. No wonder he kept insisting there was "no plan on his desk yet"

during the runup to kill Iraq, he gave the plan to Tony and it was on HIS desk!

/bush*reign

[paineinthearse]

66. Example of the "aether" phenomenon here at DU

9 responses, 4 of which are "kicks".

Guess everyone is too busy reading about runaway brides.

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1755978#1757897

[paineinthearse]

67. Gonzales and Ashcroft's war planning roles

See related post - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1755978#1757903

[smartvoter]

69. New details, old news. Iraq was on the table from Day One. Look at

how many people have informed us.

But the public won't care. They let the reason for invasion change over and over with no huge backlash. Timing is a small detail by comparison...

[drm604]

70. I'm confused about this.

This AP article from April 28 say's that Blair himself released the memo. It says that he was pressured into releasing it after it was leaked on Wednesday night. But this other story, dated April 29 says that a memo to Blair has been exposed as a forgery. :shrug:

Why would Blair release a forgery that makes himself look bad? Is the second story talking about a different memo? If so, is this an attempt to "muddy the water" right before the elections in the hopes that people will confuse the two memos and think that the original was forged? I'm reminded of the whole Dan Rather affair (which I think may have been a Rovian setup).

[KoKo]

83. Yes...it just broke in another DU Forum. "Goldsmith Memo/Forgery"...

:eyes: I'll try to find the link. Here's link to DU post, but says that Memo Fraud broke on Friday in GB. :shrug: Stranger and stranger.


-------------------------

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1758119

And, the links from the above post:

Forged Iraq 'memo to Blair' exposed
Fri Apr 29, 1:56 PM ET

LONDON (AFP) - A forged document purporting to counsel British Prime Minister Tony Blair on the legality of the Iraq war was sent to media in London, while a pre-election debate raged over authentic legal advice given in the run-up to the March 2003 invasion.

The text, which purports to be signed by Attorney General Lord Peter Goldsmith and appears to warn that military action against Iraq would be illegal, is a "complete forgery", Goldsmith's office said.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050429/w...

Also here:
Forged Iraq ‘memo to Blair’ exposed
Sunday May 01, 2005 (0221 PST)
http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=103632

Also here:
Forged Iraq 'memo to Blair' exposed
http://news.lycos.co.uk/uk/050429175651.6yu0oq3j.xml.ht...

[flyarm]

71. well i used to have a letter from * own methodist ministers ...

the head of the methodist church from aug 31st 2002..long before * met with congress for a resolution that the head of the methodist church said * had the plans ready for war in iraq and nothing was going to stop it..after that meeting of the top methodist ministers * never met with them again because they sent out a letter to all methodist ministers telling of bushes plans for war..if anyone can archive the letter..that would be good..i lost it when my computer crashed months ago...


fly

[JerseygirlCT]

74. kick

[Chi]

76. Here is the article on Yahoo....KICK IT!

Email it out, until it goes to most popular page.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050501/325/fhv2o.html

[Beaverhausen]

78. we need that on the US edition of Yahoo

I'm searching for it right now but can't find it. (Theres a shock)

[Chi]

81. I was under the impression...

That emailing it out, in sufficient numbers, would get it to the 'most popular' page (most emailed).

But I must admit, it was 'emailed 6 times' before I did mine, and after I did mine. My emailing it didn't seem to affect it's status.

[bejammin075]

79. Throw them an anvil when they're drowning

This memo is what we need to catalyze ACTION to impeach Bush. Bush is tanking early in term 2. Already 50%, in a recent poll, believe that "Bush deliberately mislead" us into war. Bush's Social security plan is tanking. The Terri Schiavo thing backfired. The time to strike is now.

Carville says to throw your opponent an anvil when they are drowning. We must do exactly that. We will not only throw the anvil, we will throw it hard and accurately, and when it hits, we will stand on top of it and push it down.

I won't suggest how we throw the anvil, but only that we each give it our best effort and activism to the cause.

[wishlist]

80. The memo will not hurt Bush- there are mentions of Saddam's WMD's

The Bush Administration covered themselves by mentioning the presence of WMD's as if it was a foregone conclusion that Saddam certainly had them (even though in truth he no longer had any and surely the Administration was in a position to know he really didn't have them) so I don't see that the memo is much of a smoking gun. Although it would be if a Democrat had been the President and done the same things.

But it does confirm that Bush & Co shaped the intelligence and the 'facts' (really misinformation and lies) around the policy instead of basing the policy on the true facts. Confirms that they purposely escalated the level of the threat posed by Saddam to win support for invading.

[wallwriter]

87. Of course this is an impeachable offense, but

People didn't care when Paul O'Neill wrote abut it in his book. Why are they going to care now? It's all part of the War on Terr.

[bejammin075]

89. We can't let that dampen our efforts

We know about Paul O'Neill's book. But how many "regular" Americans do? It didn't penetrate into the US minds. Sure, it's because of the MSM protecting Bush. But, fuck the past. I think that most Americans, if presented with the fact that Bush lied about the war, would have to favor impeachment. The problem isn't the message, but getting the message across. More people than ever before believe Bush lied. We have to keep going with this.

[sickem]

93. It seems to me that Bush and Blair

tied their boats together a long time ago. If Blair sinks he will surely take Bush with him. Of course there will be the usual time lag between what happens over there and what happens here. The Bushies have things pretty well sewed up over here as far as what the spin is on these things and how it is reacted to. Fortunately their influence doesn't extend to the British Parliament. This is their Achilles heel. If these things are coming to light in Britain it won't be long before they're being seriously discussed here. Especially with Bush's support falling at home and the ugly truths about Iraq continually rising to the top of their vat of fermenting bullshit. With the midterm elections coming up Bush's Congressional lapdogs are going to start bailing on him like rats off a sinking ship. Without them to cover his ass for the next three years he might have some "splaining" to do.

Don't be surprised if they engineer another massive terrorist attack on NYC the moment the heat on Bush becomes too intense. These Neo-felons have no intention of going gently into that good night.

[cyberpj]

88. Anyone catch the attempt to claim FORGERY ?

check this out:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1758119

[ClintonTyree]

90. What about the children?

What do we tell our children? :scared: I guess the moral of this story is, if you have sex, don't lie about it. That's it. You can do practically anything else;, tell lies to start illegal wars for no apparent reason, bankrupt the Treasury in give-aways to your cronies, lie to the American people and Congress ( on anything but sex, don't lie about that), dismantle social programs so you don't have to tax the rich, steal elections, intimidate voters, use paid propagandists to further your agenda, allow gay male hookers to wander the White House freely.....each and everyone of these things is alright for your children to do because our President does them!

But damn it, DO NOT let your children lie about sex or the full fury of god and government will be rained upon you in the form of special prosecutors and impeachment hearings.

THESE are the lessons that the bush administration has taught our children. :grr: Go now, citizens. Teach your children the Republican Way. They, and society will thank you dearly for it. :sarcasm:

[understandinglife]

92. MNA 1608: Day 2 of MissionNOTAccomplished

American Deaths since war began (March 19 2003) as of May 3 2005 midnight EDT is 1586

Source of information:
http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/

MNA Day 2 will be announced when the number of American deaths in Iraq is 1608

That day is designated MNA 1608

24 hours after receiving any form of communication containing the MNA logo:



YOU are requested To Do Two Things:

1. Do NOT do anything you normally would do for 24 hours, excepting essential activities (which includes communicating with all those who care);

2. Contact at least 10 other individuals and encourage them To Do # 1 and # 2.

For reference:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3572770

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us -- Because "We The People" Care and Because "We The People" Are America<'b>

[jazzjunkysue]

100. 7 year old bombshell called PNAC: Project for a New American Century

They asked to invade Iraq in 98, kids. This is real old.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

January 26, 1998

The Honorable William J. Clinton
President of the United States
Washington, DC


Dear Mr. President:

We are writing you because we are convinced that current American policy toward Iraq is not succeeding, and that we may soon face a threat in the Middle East more serious than any we have known since the end of the Cold War.


"In the long term, it means removing Saddam Hussein and his regime from power. That now needs to become the aim of American foreign policy."

Donald Rumsfeld Paul Wolfowitz Elliott Abrams Richard L. Armitage William J. Bennett

John Bolton Robert Kagan William Kristol Richard Perle Peter W. Rodman

(among others)

[erpowers]

103. One Reason

Some people on the left might not be talking about this because they feel that we have known this from the beginning. Also, this will not affect Bush's term in office. We know he will not be impeached for this even though he should. Other than that maybe people have not heard that this came out. For me this is the first time I am hearing this information.

[V Lee]

105. It's certainly true, but will enough people care?

That's the real problem, does the average American give a $&%@ anymore? I'm starting to wonder ...

>> What's on Bill's mind? Political commentary with attitude and more at http://www.BillsBrain.com