So the Repugs love to tell us that no new oil refineries...

[tekriter]

have been built since about 900 years ago because of those damned enviro-whackos...

but can anyone tell me how long it's ACTUALLY been? Anyone have some evidence of new refineries built in the last decade or 2??

Got a lotta freepers to shut up here...need ammunition!

[Toucano]

1. Some ammunition

I don't know when the last refinery was built, but I did some research on refinery output last week.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3568621&mesg_id=3568621


I averaged the weekly output of gasoline for the first quarter of 1995 and compared it to 2005.

The 1995 weekly average output is 7,334,538 barrels per day.
The 2005 weekly average output is 8,458,583 barrels per day.

We're producing 1,124,045 MORE barrels per day on average than we were 10 years ago.

[rfranklin]

5. There is no shortage of gasoline...

I have yet to see any pumps shut down or lines of cars waiting at the gas stations. So how can anyone say that there is a shortage of refineries?

[madrchsod]

2. there has been no new refineries

built in years....but one has to have supplies to feed them. i heard that statement from dummy and wonder if he is completely clueless..yup he is is!

[alfredo]

3. The US oil industry agreed not to build more refineries.

Building more would have up driven supply, lowering price/profit. This came out during the phony gas crisis and the Enron scandal. It wasn't the environmentalist, it was the capitalist manipulating supply to up their profit.

[Dr.Phool]

13. Two things

Years ago, Standard Oil was broken up into several companies to break up their monopoly. In the last few years, they're all merging together again, "to better compete". Yeah bullshit.

For the last 10-15 years, these newly merged companies have been shutting down refineries all over the place. Now, all of a sudden, gee whiz, we don't have enough refining capacity. Better throw out all them pesky environmental rules and regulations, so we can get more gas to the 'murkin people.

[alfredo]

16. They will also be immune from bearing any responsibility

for their actions.

[slaveplanet]

18. yup -I think it went

from 400 refineries down to 123(although those 123 have been expanded to increase output)but it clearly leaves the power in fewer hands. (I heard these numbers but haven't independently verified them yet).

But, there are about 5 majors right now and I predict it will soon be 3 as the monopoly comes back together.

[Speck Tater]

4. Here's what I heard

This comes from one of the peak oil pages. I don't recall which one (sorry). Oil companies stopped building refineries because the existing one could handle all the crude we could get and building new ones would be a waste of time because there would be no additional crude to put into them.

Envinronmental rules or not, big oil would build refineries IF they wanted to build refineries. We've all seen that sort of thing happen in other industries. The fact that haven't built refineries is because they don't see any money in building refineries unless there's more crude coming, and at this point (84 millin barrels a day coming out of the ground) there's probably never going to be much more than that.

It's sort of like standing in the middle of a desert and saying "The reason we have no lumber is because the environmentalists won't let us build lumber mills." So the pres decides to build lumber mills. Only where are the trees in the desert that can be sent to the lumber mills? The "we need more refineries" bullshit is just more flim flam. That won't solve the gas price problem. In fact nothing will.

[RC]

6. The oil companies know all about Peak Oil...

They cannot see sinking any of their obscene profits into new refineries when they know the oil will not last long enough to pay for their construction and start-up costs.

[Toucano]

7. Found this:

There hasn't been a major new refinery in the United States since 1976, and experts say none is on the horizon. Refineries are expensive, and nobody likes having a big, smelly refinery near his or her back yard.

But another reason you won't see any refineries springing up soon is that oil companies like things the way they are: Their refineries are operating near capacity, so they sell practically every drop of fuel they make.

http://www.pcps.org/pdf/FASB_Conditional_ARO_Obligations_ED_TIC.pdf

[AllegroRondo]

8. Its much cheaper to expand existing refineries

There havent been any new refineries built since the 70's - and there hasnt been a need for them yet. It is much cheaper and more cost effective for oil companies to expand and renovate existing refineries. We have been able to expand our capacity without building new refineries.

[3waygeek]

9. Can't help you there...

Everything I've read indicates that the last new refinery in the US was built in 1976. I've never seen any data regarding the expansion or closure of existing refineries, so I don't know how refinery capacity has changed over the last 30 years.

[newyawker99]

17. Hi 3waygeek!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[mtnsnake]

10. Don't fall into their trap. Just defend our doctrine of conservation and

our research into alternative energy sources, and you'll have all the ammo you need. Don't let them put you on the defensive on something where there's nothing to be ashamed about. Be proud that we are "enviro-whackos".

[TomClash]

11. Eviron-whackos? Really?

Then why did they shut the largest US refinery in California last year?

[wakeme2008]

12. Tell them

If they wanted one during the 8 years Bush was governor of Texas, what would Bush have done. Answer everything needed to make it happen.

Second point: Off-shore refineries. These are being built for the same reason companies move manufacturing off-shores. Cheaper labor and cheaper building costs.

[Jamison]

14. I think the oil co's actually want to limit the # of refineries.

They use that as a tool to justify price gouging.

[Inland]

15. Tell its the free market, and to go back to Russia if they don't like it.

Refineries were OVERBUILT. Refining wasn't profitable because of too much capacity and not enough demand. Result: low prices for gas and oil endproducts. Now, demand is just catching up, prices are rising, and refiners are making their first profits in years.

So Repugs, being the first to talk economics and the last to understand it, think that somebody is going to build refineries to PREVENT high prices, that the industry is going to purposely go back to teh era of too much capacity for them to make a profit, just to keep prices low.